Studio People Don't or Rarely Read the Forums Anymore? - Page 4

Re: Studio People Don't or Rarely Read the Forums Anymore?

I appreciate your efforts Cassy, but the truth is, that these letters and e-mails means very little (I almost said "nothing", but.. ). They won´t reach the "right people" (sure, they might reach some PR-people and such, but most likely it´s not enough).

Best thing is, that "connected" people like RAH, B.Hunt, our mods here, etc will "deliver" the message for the studios. They know the "right people". I also believe, that the "message" has been sent.

My point? I´m belong to the 99% of the people on these boards that didn´t write to the studios. And I just explained why.

Re: Studio People Don't or Rarely Read the Forums Anymore?

Listen...

The message has been sent.

The message has been received and understood.

Additionally, an article from Chris Tribbey just hit Home Media
Retail Magazine yesterday that focuses on the problem. I would
give a link to the article but it is not yet posted on the site.

Unless more released BD titles exhibit the overuse of DNR, I would
hope that complaints subside. There is no reason to continue complaining
about the issue as everyone involved at studio level is now aware of the
public outcry and it is our hope that all future BD releases are handled
appropriately.

Re: Studio People Don't or Rarely Read the Forums Anymore?

I thought Cassy's was an excellent post and the way it should be handled. I find it a curious contradiction to say "oh, don't say anything offensive to the studios" at the same time that we're told "the studios don't pay attention to anything you say".

Re: Studio People Don't or Rarely Read the Forums Anymore?

It sounds like a "wait and see" attitude is appropriate here. If better transfers are forthcoming, they should be praised. Until then, I think people can sit with arms folded, saying quietly "show me" (promises aren't sufficient).

Re: Studio People Don't or Rarely Read the Forums Anymore?

And saying "studio X sucks!" is going to get that studio interested in what someone's complaint is? Stating your displeasure is fine but blowing things out of proportion probably does nothing other than give someone who works at the studio something to laugh at.

Re: Studio People Don't or Rarely Read the Forums Anymore?

Exactly where did I say someone should phrase it that way in my post?

Re: Studio People Don't or Rarely Read the Forums Anymore?

I'm kind of lost here as to whether such was actually said.

I can tell you as one of the owners of this forum that the studios
DO read this forum probably more than others and that they do care
about what gets said as long as the signal to noise ratio is kept at
a minimum.

That doesn't mean you can't complain about a DVD/BD release, but
when it is done in a manner that is anything but polite, constructive
and without demands the studios quickly lose interest in reading.

Re: Studio People Don't or Rarely Read the Forums Anymore?

You didn't and I was actually going to note that in my post but I haven't seen anyone say that constructive criticism is bad. I've only seen people say that blowing things out of proportion is bad.

Re: Studio People Don't or Rarely Read the Forums Anymore?

Sounds reasonable to me.

Re: Studio People Don't or Rarely Read the Forums Anymore?

Ron, it was only said by Penton-Man over at Blu-ray.com. That's what was quoted by the OP, and it's why the thread title is phrased as a question.

I think your posts have established, pretty conclusively, that, with all due respect to Mr. Penton-Man, he's considerably overstated the matter (and I'm straining to put that as, uh, diplomatically as possible ).

M.

Re: Studio People Don't or Rarely Read the Forums Anymore?

I don't read the other forums nor know much about Penton-Man other than the
fact that he is a possible studio insider. Is he?

If he is an insider, he would be more than welcome to post to this
forum if he wishes to personally debate any matters we have posted here.
I am certain he's someone who has met and knows us. Would love to have him
here if he wishes to provide our members with "inside" information.

Re: Studio People Don't or Rarely Read the Forums Anymore?

I see two things wrong with this approach: Firstly, if sending studios e-mails, snail mails, etc. does mean very little and doesn't reach the right people, then shame of the studios for not bothering to listen to their consumers. How can they being out of touch with their consumer base be seen as anything but a negative? We shouldn't have to be "connected" to be heard. Secondly, not voicing your opinion because you doubt you will be heard is like not voting because your one vote won't mean anything.

I'm not directing this specifically to this current topic either, this really goes for any complaint someone wants to pass along, whether it's something like being unhappy with the price being charged, DVD artwork, or not including an edited for tv soundtrack to cut out the swearing; whatever the complaint, we should be able to pass that along and get it to the right people so if there are enough voices on a certain topic, things can be changed. I would hope that any letter sent would be cordial and polite, otherwise yeah, they should be ignored, I'd ignore them too.

So, I agree with Cassy's approach to this and it sounds like she sent her letter before it was stated that the studios got the message already and that it was being handled.

Now, getting to this current issue of overuse of DNR, Ron hit the nail on the head that hopefully the complaints subdue as it's been stated numerous times the message has been heard and until it's shown that something hasn't been done about it, there's no point in reliving it over and over again.

Re: Studio People Don't or Rarely Read the Forums Anymore?

I hope this thread has FINALLY laid to rest the notion that there's nothing to complain about regarding the DNR/EE issue and/or it's pointless to complain about it anyway.

Re: Studio People Don't or Rarely Read the Forums Anymore?

The thread has definitely shown that it's pointless to continue to scold the studios for the titles in questions when it's obvious, by Ron's posts, that they've received the message loud and clear. It's shown that the studios are aware of the concerns and are (potentially) making an effort to correct the problem with future releases. A "wait and see" approach is definitely warranted for now.



The article is now available via the Digital Edition linked on the HMM homepage. The article is on pages 3 & 32.

Re: Studio People Don't or Rarely Read the Forums Anymore?

Thanks for the link. A bit short, but well worth to read. Important quote (from Grover Crisp/Sony):

"A user of any of the DNR (Digital Noise Reduction) technologies needs to be judicious about how they use it."

Based on some earlier threads/quotes about one certain company (they did some work for both "Patton" and "The Longest Day" Blu-ray - and removed grain, etc), I would say, that the studios should deliver the clear message also to their smaller "partner companies" (which are part of the "remastering" process of these various Blu-ray-titles): Be cautious with DNR and keep the original, "film-like" look.

Like RAH says in the article, "90% of Blu-ray-releases have had some DNR work". I guess most companies still know what to do with those various DNR technologies. I guess "DNR" alone is not "evil". Some just use it "too much"..

Re: Studio People Don't or Rarely Read the Forums Anymore?

Now I have to write a letter to Disney! Not only did they release that abomination called GANGS OF NEW YORK, but now they have released THE SIXTH SENSE with obvious DVNR. No grain to speak of. Just waxen looking actors.

My husband was so furious last night he told me "No more pre-orders no matter what! No exceptions!"

DVNR is like edge enhancement. Once you know what it is and what it looks like you cannot help but notice it. And that makes it impossible to enjoy releases that have been hit with the DVNR button.

Re: Studio People Don't or Rarely Read the Forums Anymore?

Cassy, either you have a very early advance copy, or you've imported it from another region, because The Sixth Sense isn't due for U.S. release on Blu-ray until Sept. 30.

M.

Re: Studio People Don't or Rarely Read the Forums Anymore?

I believe Cassy is referring to the thread on AVS Forum, which was started by a user who received the UK BD. We've all debated the merits of screen shots before, so I won't belabor the point. One thing of note, however, is that the UK BD was released by BVHE as well, so I doubt there will be much difference, if any, between the UK and the US releases.

Re: Studio People Don't or Rarely Read the Forums Anymore?

Just another overreaction those 3 little letters in a thread at AVS based on an import copy. The end result? While grain is minimized, there is little to no loss of detail.

Somebody ran the BD version through a "film grain generator" tool in Adobe After Effects and it's indistinguishable from the version the compared it to (1080i broadcast). Check it out for yourself:

ImageShack - Hosting :: donniegraintf5.jpg
ImageShack - Hosting :: brucegrainou7.jpg

Re: Studio People Don't or Rarely Read the Forums Anymore?

Thanks, guys, but I wanted to give Cassy the benefit of the doubt until she says otherwise.

I've been on record for some as believing that screen caps are of limited (very limited) utility when it comes to evaluating the severity of DNR. And in general I don't think you can evaluate a disc until you've, you know, uh, watched the disc.

M.

Re: Studio People Don't or Rarely Read the Forums Anymore?

In this case, I think there'd be even less a difference. Grain is a lot more noticeable in still shots. Were any of us to compare them side-by-side while running, it looks like it would be nearly impossible.

Re: Studio People Don't or Rarely Read the Forums Anymore?

Saying there's no loss of detail compared to the 1080i broadcast says nothing about how detailed the 1080i broadcast is compared to how detailed it could have been on BR. After all, 1080i broadcast shouldn't be the quality reference any more than DVD. Film should be the reference.

Re: Studio People Don't or Rarely Read the Forums Anymore?

Wait, so now we're preemptively poo-pooing titles based on film versions that no one has, because we believe it didn't reach that potential? You gotta be kidding me...

EDIT: And what were you comparing, say "Dark City" with, out of curiosity?

Re: Studio People Don't or Rarely Read the Forums Anymore?

Huh? I thought Cassy had the title.

Re: Studio People Don't or Rarely Read the Forums Anymore?

On film? I highly doubt that.

Re: Studio People Don't or Rarely Read the Forums Anymore?

You don't need to have a title on film to know what it looks like on film.

Re: Studio People Don't or Rarely Read the Forums Anymore?

So far as I can tell, none of the complaints in the AVS thread even bothered to compare the resolution before the freak-outs began, let alone mention how true it was to the film source. IMO, that makes said freaking out look even more foolish.

Re: Studio People Don't or Rarely Read the Forums Anymore?

That doesn't change the fact that film should be the reference, not DVD or a 1080i broadcast.

Re: Studio People Don't or Rarely Read the Forums Anymore?

I agree. But again it has already started: "The 6th Sense" has DNR. Or so "they" say. And screencaps. And this-and-that..

Re: Studio People Don't or Rarely Read the Forums Anymore?

Yep. Maybe they're right but it seems premature to freak out already.