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DVD's That are Better than The Blue Ray Versions - Page 2

post #31 of 52
8/5/08 at 10:42am
Thread Starter 

Re: DVD's That are Better than The Blue Ray Versions

"resolution increase alone puts their statement to lie"

this isn't true because
the source is different ,1080p is only as good as its source,and these releases
don't use the same source, if you made a BR from the source used from
that old Comformist Laser,It would have less resolution than the last Remastered Standard DVD even if it was 1080p
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post #32 of 52
8/5/08 at 10:51am

Re: DVD's That are Better than The Blue Ray Versions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Neski
"resolution increase alone puts their statement to lie"

this isn't true because
the source is different ,1080p is only as good as its source,and these releases
don't use the same source, if you made a BR from the source used from
that old Comformist Laser,It would have less resolution than the last Remastered Standard DVD even if it was 1080p
Read my last post again, I already covered this. The BD was not taken from a 480i/p master. You have still yet to prove anything else to back up your claims. Again, I want you to show me the screenshots that have the 1080p version showing the same or less resolution than the 480p version.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Neski
"compressed " Yes it shows Compression problems,still its better ,Better Color,
Color is one thing (and if that's your complaint, this thread and your 1st post are wildly misleading), but if you're saying the compression problems of a 4.7GB disc compared to a 25GB disc don't have any effect on the image, you're completely wrong.
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post #33 of 52
8/5/08 at 11:01am
Thread Starter 

Re: DVD's That are Better than The Blue Ray Versions

All I can tell you is compare for yourself,I would love the new one to be Better
,Most are
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post #34 of 52
8/5/08 at 11:08am

Re: DVD's That are Better than The Blue Ray Versions

I'm not trying to be a jerk but what is the point of this thread?

So far, the only titles that have been noted are Evil Dead II, Deliverance, Stargate and Bram Stoker's Dracula. Deliverance and Dracula were noted because of a change in color between the DVD and the Blu-Ray which is a preference that may vary from to viewer to viewer rather than something that can deemed right or wrong. Stargate was noted because someone thinks the CG looks better at DVD's lower resolution. Evil Dead II was noted as being no better than the DVD.

So I can't understand why there's a thread dedicated to this topic when there doesn't seem to be a topic.
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post #35 of 52
8/5/08 at 11:46am
Thread Starter 

Re: DVD's That are Better than The Blue Ray Versions

How about This "Yes "Live at Montreux 2003 The HdDVD (and Blue Ray I think) are recorded at the wrong speed) The DVD is the right speed
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post #36 of 52
8/5/08 at 11:58am

Re: DVD's That are Better than The Blue Ray Versions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Neski
All I can tell you is compare for yourself,I would love the new one to be Better
,Most are
Look, you've got to clarify yourself here.

Are you saying better only because of the color issue or are you claiming that there's an actual resolution (i.e., pixels and/or filtering) difference here? If it's the former, this thread is useless and should be closed, because it's a personal preference thing. If it's the latter, then your claim is bogus until you show some proof, because I can see a large difference in resolution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisR
I'm not trying to be a jerk but what is the point of this thread?

So far, the only titles that have been noted are Evil Dead II, Deliverance, Stargate and Bram Stoker's Dracula. Deliverance and Dracula were noted because of a change in color between the DVD and the Blu-Ray which is a preference that may vary from to viewer to viewer rather than something that can deemed right or wrong. Stargate was noted because someone thinks the CG looks better at DVD's lower resolution. Evil Dead II was noted as being no better than the DVD.

So I can't understand why there's a thread dedicated to this topic when there doesn't seem to be a topic.
That's exactly what I'm wondering. IMO, this thread isn't bringing anything to the table except for one person's personal preference for coloring, which is neither an objective argument for "better" nor a demonstration for the resolution argument.
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post #37 of 52
8/5/08 at 12:07pm

Re: DVD's That are Better than The Blue Ray Versions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Neski
"compressed " Yes it shows Compression problems,still its better ,Better Color,
And this is where you're completely wrong. Deliverance's BD, HD DVD and DE DVD iterations are more faithful to the original source than the first DVD of Deliverance. Deliverance is a "flashed" film, meaning that the film was briefly pre-exposed to light before shooting to create a certain effect that the DP was looking for, being a desaturated colour appearance that exposes more detail in shadow areas. That first Deliverance DVD also was "pictureboxed", meaning that it is lower resolution to begin with, so there is really no way that it can be a more accurate representation of the film on digital media. It may be more aesthetically pleasing to you, Peter, but the majority of the HTF would prefer a presentation more faithful to the theatrical experience.
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post #38 of 52
8/5/08 at 1:11pm

Re: DVD's That are Better than The Blue Ray Versions

Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisR
I'm not trying to be a jerk but what is the point of this thread?

So far, the only titles that have been noted are Evil Dead II, Deliverance, Stargate and Bram Stoker's Dracula. Deliverance and Dracula were noted because of a change in color between the DVD and the Blu-Ray which is a preference that may vary from to viewer to viewer rather than something that can deemed right or wrong. Stargate was noted because someone thinks the CG looks better at DVD's lower resolution. Evil Dead II was noted as being no better than the DVD.

So I can't understand why there's a thread dedicated to this topic when there doesn't seem to be a topic.

Travis, I agree with you in principal. However, I would just like to clarify my position with Evil Dead II. It is my assertion that the master used on the THX SD DVD is more faithful to the source than subsequent remastered transfer, which was used as the basis for the BD. I have no doubt that if that THX transfer was used as the basis for the BD it would look better than the THX SD DVD, but it wasn't. Therefore, it is my opinion that the THX SD DVD is still more faithful to the souce than the remastered BD.

Again, I agree with you in principal here that one exception does not a trend, or even really a topic, make.
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post #39 of 52
8/6/08 at 8:16am
Thread Starter 

Re: DVD's That are Better than The Blue Ray Versions

If the overall picture is better ,how is that not what this thread is about
I didn't start this thread Because I don't agree that BR is a better Format!!!
I could only think of a couple Titles which I would Prefer the dvd version
to the Blue Ray version.Many people didn't care for the Blue Ray Longest
Day (I Haven't seen it yet) wouldn't that be another title? I don't know
Its mostly about Personal Taste.
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post #40 of 52
8/6/08 at 10:29am

Re: DVD's That are Better than The Blue Ray Versions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Neski
If the overall picture is better ,how is that not what this thread is about
I didn't start this thread Because I don't agree that BR is a better Format!!!
I could only think of a couple Titles which I would Prefer the dvd version
to the Blue Ray version.Many people didn't care for the Blue Ray Longest
Day (I Haven't seen it yet) wouldn't that be another title? I don't know
Its mostly about Personal Taste.
The problem with "better" as the descriptor is that it is not well defined. In technical terms, no DVD is better than a BD (presuming nothing is defective with either one). If we move to the subjective judging of the "look" of a title--then "better" becomes highly individualized and use of the word leads to confusion (much like some of the comments like "Better how? More features/extras? Better sound? More language/subtitle options?" and so on.).

It would have caused less confusion if the title of the thread read: Are there any DVDs you prefer over the BD version? That would allow for personal preferences without opening it up to confusion. In that scenario, you're preference for the original DVD release of Deliverance could not be misconstrued (as it has in this thread) of being an argument for its technical (vs aesthetic) "superiority".
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post #41 of 52
8/6/08 at 11:42am

Re: DVD's That are Better than The Blue Ray Versions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
I think you might also be disappointed with early CinemaScope films like The Robe. They were shot with the original Henri Chrétien lenses that Fox bought from him, and are very soft compared to the later films shot with lenses made by Bausch and Lomb.

Doug

Doug,

apparently The Robe does not have to be as bad as most have seen it. There was a Technicolor and 4 channel festival in the Schauburg Theater in Karlsruhe Germany and a friend of mine that attended told me that the copy they showed of The Robe was better than he ever had seen the movie and he has seen it in at least 3 different prints before.

It was a print that was struck for a later re-release which indicates that the negative of The Robe was not that bad, but the early prints were somehow flawed.

Oliver
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post #42 of 52
8/6/08 at 12:07pm

Re: DVD's That are Better than The Blue Ray Versions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Neski
If the overall picture is better ,how is that not what this thread is about
I didn't start this thread Because I don't agree that BR is a better Format!!!
I could only think of a couple Titles which I would Prefer the dvd version
to the Blue Ray version.Many people didn't care for the Blue Ray Longest
Day (I Haven't seen it yet) wouldn't that be another title? I don't know
Its mostly about Personal Taste.
Everything is about personal taste but as far as "The Longest Day" is concerned, while it's true that a lot of posters found fault with this title, I dare say that none of them would claim that the SD DVD was in any way 'better' than the BD release. Most of the fault centered around how much better the BD release coulda, shoulda, woulda been.
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post #43 of 52
8/6/08 at 12:37pm

Re: DVD's That are Better than The Blue Ray Versions

Sometimes Blu-rays can be overwhelming in there picture for a variety of reasons. Sometimes they go back to the prints and reproduce them faithfully to the original. In the years we've had sd dvd versions of films we either never knew or forgotten what it originally looked like. Now, with Blu-ray it's a wake up call for some titles more than others. It's kind of like when you've been watching your tv for years not calibrated and then you finally have it done. Some people don't like the image of a well calibrated set as opposed to what the've become used to. The same thing is happening with some Blu-ray titles I think. Of course If you prefer the sd dvd then that's your right. However, that doesn't make it better just because you feel it is.
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post #44 of 52
8/6/08 at 12:47pm

Re: DVD's That are Better than The Blue Ray Versions

Some of these arguements are funny. I love the Stargate Blu-ray release PQ wise. I do understand people wanting the fully loaded, both cuts of the film release. But, the PQ on Blu is way better than the previous releases of this title. One arguement I read was that the original sd dvd was better because the increased resolution of Blu makes the CGI effects stand out. That happened with ID4 as well. That's not a quality issue with Blu-ray, it's a poorly mastered sd dvd issue. It'll probably happen with titles in the future as well. I can deal with it.
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post #45 of 52
8/6/08 at 2:09pm

Re: DVD's That are Better than The Blue Ray Versions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Neski
If the overall picture is better ,how is that not what this thread is about
I didn't start this thread Because I don't agree that BR is a better Format!!!
I could only think of a couple Titles which I would Prefer the dvd version
to the Blue Ray version.Many people didn't care for the Blue Ray Longest
Day (I Haven't seen it yet) wouldn't that be another title? I don't know
Its mostly about Personal Taste.


The Longest Day SD DVD comes from the same master as the blu-ray and has the same problems, they are just more pronounced on the blu-ray for obvious reasons.

Doug
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post #46 of 52
8/6/08 at 2:16pm

Re: DVD's That are Better than The Blue Ray Versions

Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverK
Doug,

apparently The Robe does not have to be as bad as most have seen it. There was a Technicolor and 4 channel festival in the Schauburg Theater in Karlsruhe Germany and a friend of mine that attended told me that the copy they showed of The Robe was better than he ever had seen the movie and he has seen it in at least 3 different prints before.

It was a print that was struck for a later re-release which indicates that the negative of The Robe was not that bad, but the early prints were somehow flawed.

Oliver


Oliver,

I wasn't trying to say that The Robe looks bad by any stretch. Its a beautifully photographed film. However it was photographed with the very early CinemaScope lenses and is quite a bit softer, and exhibits more distortion than films that were made with the later Bouche and Lomb lenses.

Some maybe disappointed that it isn't as sharp on HD as say Forbidden Planet, a CinemaScope film made just 3 years later

The current DVD isn't a great example of how good The Robe can look.

Doug
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post #47 of 52
8/7/08 at 12:22pm
Thread Starter 

Re: DVD's That are Better than The Blue Ray Versions

The Longest Day SD DVD comes from the same master as the blu-ray and has the same problems, they are just more pronounced on the blu-ray for obvious reasons.

Thanks Didn't Know that,I guess Ill get it then
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post #48 of 52
8/9/08 at 5:30pm

Re: DVD's That are Better than The Blue Ray Versions

And finally, for the last word on Deliverance, from RAH's A Few Words About... Deliverance thread: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...ml#post3233649
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post #49 of 52
8/9/08 at 8:49pm

Re: DVD's That are Better than The Blue Ray Versions

Personally I think that Cars looks better on cable then it does on BD.










Kidding! Just makin' sure you guys are awake.

I'm quite disappointed to learn, after getting my BD player, that there are examples of SD DVD's looking better than their BD counterparts. I just thank goodness it isn't all that many.
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post #50 of 52
8/9/08 at 9:56pm

Re: DVD's That are Better than The Blue Ray Versions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector Hammer!
I'm quite disappointed to learn, after getting my BD player, that there are examples of SD DVD's looking better than their BD counterparts.
Don't be disappointed, because the "examples" in this thread are mostly personal quirks. Take Stargate, for example. I've seen every version of it on LD, DVD and BD. The existing BD is the only version that looks anything like the film source. But people complain because (a) it's only the extended cut, and (b) some of the CGI hasn't aged well.

That's doesn't make any of the SD DVDs "better". Even though I prefer the theatrical cut to the extended, I'll never touch the SD DVDs again. The picture quality of the BR is so obviously superior that there's nothing to discuss.

Or Bram Stroker's Dracula. The color timing is different. Some people don't like it. Fine, get over it. Meanwhile, the BR is the finest presentation of the film I've seen on home video, and I've seen every version back to the "director-approved" Criterion LD.

Deliverance has been dealt with by others. Peter Neski wants it colorful. Unfortunately for him, the director and the DP wanted it desaturated, which is how the BR presents it.

M.
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post #51 of 52
8/9/08 at 11:40pm

Re: DVD's That are Better than The Blue Ray Versions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Reuben
Don't be disappointed, because the "examples" in this thread are mostly personal quirks. Take Stargate, for example. I've seen every version of it on LD, DVD and BD. The existing BD is the only version that looks anything like the film source. But people complain because (a) it's only the extended cut, and (b) some of the CGI hasn't aged well.

That's doesn't make any of the SD DVDs "better". Even though I prefer the theatrical cut to the extended, I'll never touch the SD DVDs again. The picture quality of the BR is so obviously superior that there's nothing to discuss.

Or Bram Stroker's Dracula. The color timing is different. Some people don't like it. Fine, get over it. Meanwhile, the BR is the finest presentation of the film I've seen on home video, and I've seen every version back to the "director-approved" Criterion LD.

Deliverance has been dealt with by others. Peter Neski wants it colorful. Unfortunately for him, the director and the DP wanted it desaturated, which is how the BR presents it.

M.

Very true. Stargate, Deliverance and BSD are three examples of movies that all look better than their SD counterparts in the resolution department and that is what counts for most. While I have yet to watch BSD I will also add that the difference for the first two is so big that I am stunned these are even mentioned in this thread.

If we want to discuss director's cuts and choices of color saturation this is not the correct thread title IMO, otherwise I could say that my theatrical cut Stargate VHS copy is better than the Blu-Ray
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post #52 of 52
8/10/08 at 7:20am

Re: DVD's That are Better than The Blue Ray Versions

Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverK
Very true. Stargate, Deliverance and BSD are three examples of movies that all look better than their SD counterparts in the resolution department and that is what counts for most.

Quite true--the STARGATE BD looks more like authentic film, and has more three-dimentionality, but oddly, the THX Optimum Resolution SD DVD uses a cleaner film source as its master. Make a BD from this source and (assuming all the extras were brought along this time) we'd have a BD worth getting excited about.
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