$30US Titles Are Killing HDM's Chances!

Re: $30US Titles Are Killing HDM's Chances!

wow ed you are on a roll tonight.
someone put something in your coffee.


anyway.
what is "H&KEFGB"?

Re: $30US Titles Are Killing HDM's Chances!

"Harold and Kumar: Escape from Guantonimo Bay"

Re: $30US Titles Are Killing HDM's Chances!

It doesn't really matter since not just purchases are done solely in B&M's. Alot of better deals are to be had on multiple online stores. I use DVDPriceSearch.com alot for comparisons and even Amazon Marketplace for titles.
Hell, I'm still buying HDDVD occasionally since it's cheap and I won't be actively buying any Blu's until I'm nearing to buy a Profile 2.0 player. That doesn't mean I can't buy the titles on Blu, might as well build the library before buying the player.
Matters more to me if the image quality looks great and how the film is intended to. Same for original theatrical audio and if all the extras are ported over. More for upgrading really irregardless of format.
I import too so that's also a factor.

Re: $30US Titles Are Killing HDM's Chances!

I can count the number of FOX titles i own on one hand. I got them all on sale too! Actually, i have not paid full price, or anything like it, for any BD i own. Warner is my best friend, because i usually pay $14 to $16 for their BD's. I dont buy FOX BD's until i can find them in the $20 price, as in a BOGO sale.
The prices dont kill me, i simply dont buy until i find a price i like. Then they get a sale!

Re: $30US Titles Are Killing HDM's Chances!

Well, alot of it has to do with MSRP and what some B&M's set their pricing at. Even people like me who also buy online want that quick buy of a film they love. A few weeks or so ago, someone scoffed at the very high price for the BD of PREDATOR at Circuit City. I agreed and said it's a rip-off for so how much, actually it's very little, FOX put on the disc. Based on this, the customers won't buy a title which has little to zero value compared to the DVD.
Will they consider the BD a safe buy for upgrading from the DVD? Hell, even I upgrade a bit here and there for my HT. I even helped the employees at CC with a customer about some high def stuff and it was quite cool. Even the working type I've encountered said they preferred OAR and the film grain so appearances can be deceiving. But there are those which complain "Why is this Blu-ray in Widescreen?!" Whining and bitching and moaning are perfectly fine for those Pan and Scammers since Blu-ray is OAR only and should be kept that way.
Of course there aren't the fans like us but even us avid HT'ers choose to upgrade their equipment slowly due to budgetary or other reasons. And one of my other reasons is I don't have enough space in my current living environment to have a fully dedicated HT.
As I've said/typed in an earlie post, it's not all just about B&M's. Online is factor too. Especially with BOGO's. At least it's not like Laserdisc where something with as many features as a SINGLE The Lord of the Rings - Extended Edition film on the format would cost over $200!
Well, one thing I like and don't about the HD formats are the things such as for DVD. The packaging could be more creative compared to just the cases. Why not more digipaks and such? At least the subtitles are neat and tidy! So why are there clips for booklets when so few titles use them?
I guess those're just the quirks of being someone who also imports alot of DVD's which have kick ass packaging and the like, I'm just expecting more for the "2K" format. I think the only Steelbook which is used for High Def discs was the Germerman HDDVD of the Ultimate Edition for T2. At least Warners is offering nice packaging. Maybe wishing for something more lively including a great disc stuff wouldn't be too difficult to ask for?
What's the point of myself buying more BD's when I have to go over to a friends house to play them on his PS3? I'm gonna build my library of Blu's and dammit, alot of them are going to be older films so the studios will know there is interest for them on High Def. I own The Adventures of Robin Hood on HDDVD and I just wish more films from around the time will be displayed more. I don't mind owning HDDVD's one bit. I mean alot of them are cheap and I got my HDDVD add-on for my 360 for only $50.
King Kong (2005) was free inside it. But deep down inside I really wanted the 1930's KONG to watch in HD. Of course HD media won't be the final HT format that's for sure. And why are director's shoot on HD video anyway? It won't even be suitable for the next format. Hell, film at best is quite nearly 8K or higher (just random guessing, Robert Harris would know more definite) and 1080p is just only a stepping stone.
For what I really want, this goes for DVD also, is more older films should be released. I'm sorta counting on Criterion and Kino, even Warner Brothers, gives me hope alot of the older films I'm interested in will out. I'm only 29 and I damn I own alot of older films on DVD, HDDVD and such. Not really BD since I only own one of them (BLACK HAWK DOWN)! There are even alot of films from the 20's-70's on my DVR and damn, I'd love to own the ones I really enjoyed in my collection.
Also in regards to DVD... I just don't get why alot of films of John Wayne are on the 5" optical disc formats but where's Robert Montgomery, John Garfield, Errol Flynn (well, there's alot but since I'm a huge fan!) and alot of other actors and actresses? I automatically set my DVR to record a film since it has a actor in it I respect and appreciate. I DVR'd They Were Expendable more to watch another Robert Montgomery film. There're even a few which Clark Gable were also in.
Just venting but I'm a bit choosy even on my blind buying.

Re: $30US Titles Are Killing HDM's Chances!

It d oesn't bother me, I hit BB weekly and buy Blu titles almost every trip. Just picked up Dark City and Doomdays both at BB Tuesday.

Re: $30US Titles Are Killing HDM's Chances!

That's all fine and well, and I do the same believe me. However, I think Ed's point is more along the lines of this format won't 'take off' until someone can walk into a B&M and make an impulse purchase without balking at the price. I do know that, for better or worse, I can't right now because I know I can get BDs cheaper online every time. Sometimes I miss not being able to walk out of Target, for example, with an impulse purchase.

That said, if you think about how long DVD took to take off we're probably another year away from the studios moving prices down toward that kind of adoption. In fact, I'm not sure the current infrastructure could support it anyway. If the studios don't consider the format war in their timetable, we're probably two years away. Although sometimes we forget it we are early, early adopters.

Re: $30US Titles Are Killing HDM's Chances!

When I used to pay $50+ for a widescreen VHS I have no problem paying half that for a Blu-ray disc.

Re: $30US Titles Are Killing HDM's Chances!

If one accounts for inflation and that BD is still in early days, prices are not that bad, in the aggregate. I remember spending more on used DVDs than some BDs are priced at my local stores (not to mention even lower prices online). And I too remember laying down serious coin for widescreen VHS versions of Ben-Hur and Spartacus (both over 40$, if memory serves), among others. So while BD purchases will not be impulse buys at first, neither were VHS nor DVD when I first began buying those.

Re: $30US Titles Are Killing HDM's Chances!

Compared to the old days, BD prices aren't bad at all.

However, the studios set the DVD pricing policies and strategies, and have only themselves to blame for any resistance to paying a huge premium for BD vs DVD (I'm especially targeting you, FOX). I don't own a single Fox BD. Don't intend to, until they get real. I'll buy 10 WB etc. BD before one Fox. On principle. Do you know what a principle is Fox? It has nothing to do with $$$, so I guess not. You're a business, I'm a customer, we have nothing to talk about, right? May I introduce you to GM?? Nuff said...

Re: $30US Titles Are Killing HDM's Chances!

I agree. I really don't buy DVDs since I got my PS3, and I rarely buy new releases on BD (Blockbuster Online is an affordable way to feed my BD habit).

$25-30 is too high for a blind buy, which I used to make all of the time when I could get a brand new DVD for under 20 bucks.

I have around 40 BDs. I've gotten a lot of them on eBay, where there are a lot of good deals to be had (like the Die Hard set for $50 brand new), the occasional Amazon sale and even a couple from Columbia House.

I can't tell you how many new releases I would have purchased if they were not, in my opinion, overpriced. I skipped Gone Baby Gone, Batman Gotham Knight, The Bank Job ... I could go on and on.


Hopefully, it's just a matter of time until the prices become a little more reasonable.

Re: $30US Titles Are Killing HDM's Chances!

Please...not this argument again.

People who make this argument need a history lesson, or at least to sit down and reflect a little. There is nothing out of line with where we are at this point in format development.

These are Salad Days for home theater.

You want what? TrueHD, flawless transfers from new masters and restorations, bonus features, and on, and on, and on. And you want to pay $10 a disc? Not gonna happen.

I don't give a flip if Joe-schmo buys into BD tomorrow or not. I want reference quality discs of films I really want. If that means the product prices keep Granny from wanting a BD player for the time being...I couldn't care less.

Re: $30US Titles Are Killing HDM's Chances!

^ That's the attitude we need. Kill BD before it even gets anywhere. Make it ultra-elitist. Oh yes, that makes big $$ for the studios, who couldn't care less about what elitists think (and since when did elitists think??). You are a beginner for sure...have you not noticed it's what J6P (and I really do hate using that term) thinks that matters? It's called democracy in these parts. And the free market. It sucks, but sucks less than the alternatives...

Re: $30US Titles Are Killing HDM's Chances!

IMO, the "attitude" what we need is somewhere in the middle. No need to accept Fox price-range (especially if some extras are dropped), but it´s also rather naive to believe that Blu-ray-titles should cost "$10" or something.

But yes, this is one tired subject for sure..

Re: $30US Titles Are Killing HDM's Chances!

Ray: FWIW, the UK BD of Sweeeney Todd was also in a steelbook.

====================

I suppose this could be considered a tired subject. But it's kind of like the weather for people within this community. There might not be much we can do about it...but it sure has a big impact on our lives so we like to talk about it.

I suppose the one difference is: My belief is that we ARE doing something about HD pricing the long run. Many of us are making discriminating choices about what HD material we are buying...mostly because of price. Our buying patterns HAVE to be having an impact of pricing patterns in the B&Ms.

For example, while Target still has most BDs up in the $29 to $34 range, I am starting to see more and more in-store markdowns (temporary price reductions) on individual titles which certainly catch my eye and, if circumstances, allow, might just convince me to make that impulse buy.

For all those HTFers who roll their eyes and talk about how much they paid for laserdiscs or widescreen VHS, I just don't find those comments pertinent to this discussion. The marketplace now is a much different place than the '80s. While you may be happy--given your financial situation--rationalizing purchases of top dollar HDM by comparing it with what-you-paid "in the old days"...isn't really the point Ed was trying to make in his OP.

I'm finding it interesting that many of us in this thread (and other similar threads)--Ed, Rick, Mark & I--are like-minded in searching out desired titles in "used" bins...where we know the quality of the product is just as good but the price is that much better.

I'd have to count 'em up...but I'd say 75 to 90% of the BD titles in my collection are the former occupants of a used bin.

Prices will come down when the marketplace and its participants decide it's necessary. And some of us consumers are doing our part by being selective. That's all.

Re: $30US Titles Are Killing HDM's Chances!

A voice of reason!

Nearly all of my BDs are shipped to me for under $20.00 which is a better deal than what I was paying for 480i, lossy DVDs back in the late 90's, early 2000. I mean when you factor in the cost of living increases and FAR, FAR superior quality with BD, I have no issues with pricing. My only problem is there are so many good titles coming out the rest of the year and how I going to afford buying them!

As far as Fox titles, you just have to be patient and wait for a deal. Those list priced $39.95 catalog titles do drop to $19.95 or cheaper with sales after a few months

Re: $30US Titles Are Killing HDM's Chances!

I was REALLY happy to see Paramount's latest batch at Costco for a flat $18.49 apiece rather than the $27 most of Costcos other BDs are going for. Thats a real good start!

Re: $30US Titles Are Killing HDM's Chances!

Exactly. And NONE of these titles are actually $39.95 in Amazon etc in the first place (not sure about Best Buy and stores like that - I´m talking online-stores).

Re: $30US Titles Are Killing HDM's Chances!

Couldn't agree with the last few posts more. But that's a strategy that goes hand-in-hand with what I said earlier. If we're not willing to pay the high prices--that ARE out there, we go "used" or wait for deals. And the deals will come as long as we're willing to wait for them.

As an example: Fox' Master & Commander is finally starting to drop. I've seen it at both BB & Target now for $24.99 on sale. Of course...that's already after I had found it even cheaper in a "used" bin. And that was a "must own" title for me. But I was willing to wait until I found a price I liked.

Re: $30US Titles Are Killing HDM's Chances!

I know we are impatient and want BD to succeed, but aren't we at the same point pricewise that we were with DVDs circa 1999 - or even the early-to-mid 00s? It seemed like it took forever for Paramount to back off of their $30 list prices, Columbia/Somy to bring their catalog titles below $30, etc.

I seriously doubt that the chances for BD success are being killed by companies pricing them consistent with supply (limited by manufacturing facilities & associated costs), demand (limited by installed player base), and their desire not to take a complete financial bath on them.

Regards,

Re: $30US Titles Are Killing HDM's Chances!

A beginner? You know absolutely nothing about me, my friend.

My outlook toward the high-def marketplace is entirely realistic. Nobody wants to pay more than they have to, and neither do I. I've waited for a sale price before buying about 70% of the titles that I own. The remainder were "must have" titles that I was completely willing to pay for on the day of release. Each of those purchase decisions were made willingly by me, and I would call that democratic.

As for "J6P": I care not what "he" thinks. I doubt that he has a real interest in BD, or he would be among us HT hobbyists. The market, such as it is, will filter down to him in price, over time. When DVD was new on the scene, J6P wasn't interested enough to become an early adopter of that format either, and that is the way the world is, and has always been. At this "toddler" phase of BD, the masses of J6P's aren't required in order for the format to survive.

Production costs are still relatively high, and if we want studios to have the incentive to produce titles in this format, with all that it entails, then...we just might have to pay a few dollars more, for the time being.

And, please, try to avoid using the "e" (elitist) word. During the past few years, the word has been over-used and done to death, and mostly used in a wrong-headed way to invoke disdain; at this point, it has filtered down to describe someone who chooses to buy a drink at Starbucks, or chooses to pay $25.00 to $30.00 for a silly Blu-ray Disc. That is a mighty thin interpretation of "elitist". The word can refer to virtually anything and anyone, depending upon how it's framed, or should I say, misused.

Way back in 1998, I paid $32.00 for 'Vertigo' on DVD. I won't bother with the math, but if you adjust for ten years of inflation, the dollar value paid might be shocking to anyone who's now fretting over their next BD purchase.

So, like I said: we're in fine shape for this early stage of the game. And aside from Fox titles, which always seem to be used as a yardstick when people are fretting over prices...the rest of the studios are pretty darn reasonable. This is a hobby, and nothing more. Silly, shiny discs, not life sustaining drugs.

Come to think of it: perhaps they are a drug, for those of us who are delightfully addicted.

Re: $30US Titles Are Killing HDM's Chances!

Yes.

Re: $30US Titles Are Killing HDM's Chances!

The comparison to DVD is not appropriate. We aren't on a timetable where we can wait 5 ot 10 years for BluRay to make it. Everything has to move faster. By the end of this year, BluRays must cost close to what DVDs cost -- $15 to $20 tops.

Re: $30US Titles Are Killing HDM's Chances!

agreed. Except for a few super AV enthusiasts that I know, NOBODY else I know is rushing to get a BD player. Even people I know with HDTVs...

Prices do need to come down IMHO. My friend just got a decent 46" 1080P LCD set and when I mentioned a Blu Ray player, he got that but it honestly hadn't clicked with him that the player alone wouldn't do it, he would need to buy BD discs for HD. His response was simply, "Oh great, I have rebuy all the movies I want...!" or something like that.

Re: $30US Titles Are Killing HDM's Chances!

Why?

Re: $30US Titles Are Killing HDM's Chances!

Why this year, or why the same price?

This year, because there is still a viable alternative to BluRay that could still undo the headway that BluRay has made. There was no viable alternative to CDs -- CDs were so much more convenient than vinyl albums or audio cassettes; it won on merits even though the cost was higher. But in situations when there is a viable alternative, a higher-priced competitor will not succeed. (SACD vs CDs, Beta vs VHS).

This price, because if BluRay is supposed to compete with DVD, it must compete on cost as well as merits, because BluRay is no more or less convenient than DVD, and the improvement in quality is incremental. Merits aren't quite enough, as shocking as that may seem to people like ourselves who study the pixels.

Re: $30US Titles Are Killing HDM's Chances!

I don't know about specific studio pricing now, I would have to check my records in more detail, but the great majority of titles I purchased in the late 90's were less or around $15.00, with the exception of SE and such.

Besides IMO the comparison of Blu ray to DVD's acceptance is bogus, DVD was competing against VHS and the advantages were clear to all, even if J6p didn't buy into DVD right away they knew they wanted this toy sooner or later.

Blu is competing against DVD and the advantages are not that clear to the majority even if they had the proper equipment to catch the difference, which they don't and will never in all likelihood ever have, especially a properly set up system that will allow them to detect the difference between an "excellent" picture and Audio and a "more excellent" picture and audio.

Good luck with selling that difference to the masses, especially at the current Blu-Ray hardware/Software prices and in this economy.

And another thing, many here seem to have the laws of Supply and demand upside down, if you want prices to come down you stop buying the product, not the other way around, and if the company goes under, well, so be it, something better and at the right price will surely come along to replace it soon enough.