Has detailed critiquing of Blu-Rays gone overboard.

re: Has detailed critiquing of Blu-Rays gone overboard.

It's no different than people who refused to buy a particular S-DVD because of the omission of a DTS track (remember "no DTS=no sale"?). Those people were a minority. So are those you're describing.

You know, I've posted my share of criticisms of discs here. In each case, they were discs that I owned and had viewed.

M.

re: Has detailed critiquing of Blu-Rays gone overboard.

Everyone is going to have opinions, some more extreme than others. They are entitled to them, and we are entitled to ours. We are also entitled to ascribe whatever weight we wish to those opinions.

No point in trying to rein those opinions in unless they become personal attacks. In that situation, the admins are able to control the situation.

re: Has detailed critiquing of Blu-Rays gone overboard.

The only danger I see with the extreme critiquing is that studio reps, who peruse these threads, are going to start thinking that we are a bunch of whining nutters. If they start to see us in that light then the opinions being expressed are going to be heavily discounted in their eyes.

re: Has detailed critiquing of Blu-Rays gone overboard.

That would be the one concern that I would have. I think the discussions of the discs are valuable, but that value will be diminished if a few outliers end up getting the majority labeled as "whining nutters." I don't expect it to come to that (see Michael's comments above).

re: Has detailed critiquing of Blu-Rays gone overboard.

Would you be so kind as to point out where someone said they' weren't going to buy it because it was only rated 4/5' ? I do agree with you, there is something ridiculous going on here(as in subject to ridicule) but I don't think we are in accord as to what that is.

re: Has detailed critiquing of Blu-Rays gone overboard.

For you?
YES!
For me?
NO!

*you forgot the question mark in the title.
It is a question, isn't it?

re: Has detailed critiquing of Blu-Rays gone overboard.

IMO, yes. It's not a perfect format. Is it better then SD, yes, but some people expect the perfect image, not going to happen. Enjoy the film, don't nit-pick the quality of the image.

It's threads like "Dark City" that tell me some people will never be happy, no matter what they get. Even if it was the perfect image they'll find something wrong with it.

Re: Has detailed critiquing of Blu-Rays gone overoard?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When they critique discs that they haven't even seen on their own display? YES

If they form they own opinion after actually watching it? NO.

I may not concur with their assessment but they have a right to voice their opinion, even if I think they're a whining nutter.

re: Has detailed critiquing of Blu-Rays gone overboard.

No.

Not when I see 1080P screen grabs that do not look like film.

Not when I see only lossy audio tracks are offered and I know full well then that the studio will revisit the title.

We have already seen with certain catalog titles what can be achieved on the format if the proper resources are made available by the studios. If the studios want my money, they will just have to work a little harder from now on.

And to all the reviewers with the knowledge, experience, and equipment to make fair, unbiased assessments of PQ/AQ (along with 1080P screen shots to back up PQ claims) I say "thank you", and "bring it on!"

re: Has detailed critiquing of Blu-Rays gone overboard.

Sony set the bar pretty high.

"The best High Definition Picture."
"Blu-ray disc's unrivaled capacity delivers the ultimate high definition experience directly into your home."
"Beyond high definition. Pristine picture. True to the original master quality."
"Best high definition picture available with unsurpassed capacity."
***All courtesy of sonypictures.com***

That's what I want. What they said. I want what I've been promised.
And if the product is less than "...the ultimate high definition experience", I want to know. I want to be able to make an informed choice on purchasing that product, flawed (to any possible degree) or not.

re: Has detailed critiquing of Blu-Rays gone overboard.

No. And I don't think people are demanding perfection, either. They're just demanding what they know full well the studios are easily capable of providing with the format. It's not very different from the days when people wanted widescreen DVDs to be enhanced for 16X9 TVs. That wasn't a demand for "overboard" perfection, just taking full advantage of the format.

That's all people are asking for. It amazes me that some people think that's too much to ask for.

re: Has detailed critiquing of Blu-Rays gone overboard.

Glad your taking all this 'junk' w/a wink & a smile!
Good thread.
Both sides have too be considered.
And we're not all the same, nor do we have all the same displays.

Hope both sides gets us better HDM.

re: Has detailed critiquing of Blu-Rays gone overboard.

agreed. Wasn't there also "Beyond HD..." whatever that meant.

Many people are buying the same films over and over again. Often a VHS, then maybe an LD, then 2 or more DVD versions, (when an SE with an improved transfer is released) and now yet again, so they SHOULD do it as best as possible. We are already getting doubledips on HD. Full Metal Jacket, Casino Royale, A Xmas Story so unless we want to go through this all over again, I say people should speak up. This is supposed to be an AV enthusiasts forum where people never had a problem bringing up things such as EE in the past going back years during DVD. Lately it's the "oh well, it's better than the DVD, quit whining..." click. Look at the trainwreck that is the Gangs Of New York BD. (and yes, I've seen it) Well, that's technically "better than the DVD" too...

re: Has detailed critiquing of Blu-Rays gone overboard.

It's not so much the complaints as the hyperbole that is sometimes tiresome.

Comments like "unwatchable" or "butchered" or the like really deflate a lot of credibility. Same applies to lossy tracks as "unlistenable". Are they really "unwatchable" and "unlistenable"? Really?

I get the disappointment with some titles. I do. I was looking forward to adding Patton on BD to my collection (it's gone from a blind buy to a rental owing to the persuasive comments from RAH, among others). But I doubt even RAH (he's free to correct me if I'm wrong, of course) would seriously say Patton on BD is "unwatchable". Because if it is, then ANYTHING on VHS should never have been bothered with (see how hyperbole becomes silly?).

Complaints are fine--if and when warranted. But it is a good rule of thumb that to complain and be credible, one should shy away from hyperbole, save in those exceedingly rare instances where extreme comments are appropriate.

As for Speed Racer, am I happy it won't be lossless? Not especially. But I doubt it will be "unlistenable". It may have dropped to a rental rather than a blind buy for me (and I'm a huge fan of the film, as well as the original), but only if I encounter reports that it is poor in the visual department as well. But that's my choice. Lossless audio is not as important to me as it appears to be to many others. I have no problem with that and I would not suggest that anyone abandon their personal principles over what they are willing to spend hard-earned money on. I would just like to see a bit less hyperbole (there's enough of that from marketers and politicians already).

re: Has detailed critiquing of Blu-Rays gone overboard.

Would that include the guy who started this thread suggesting that the critiquing of BR titles has gone "overboard"?

Oh, wait a minute . . .

M.

re: Has detailed critiquing of Blu-Rays gone overboard.

I agree with Stephen.

That being said, we don´t always have to "agree". These "DNR ruined this title - I saw one screencap from the net!"-type of threads will be with us now and we have to deal with them in a mature way. Some of these threads will be more valid than others and some very important/helpful, but some will be merely general whining and complaining. So you kinda have to judge yourself how much weight you put on these threads/opinions/facts.

Ps. What comes to "Sony and PR slogans", one company had "The Look and Sound of PERFECT"-slogan..

re: Has detailed critiquing of Blu-Rays gone overboard.

PaulDA nailed it--the complaints are (usually) valid and the studios should be held accountable for failing to provide the best of their capabilities, but the level of hyperbole and vitriol from dissenting purchasers has (for me) risen to the point of absurdity. Is PATTON (as a random example) everything it should have been? No. But is it unwatchable...or even close? Not by a country mile. Is DNR on par with pan-and-scanning? There aren't enough drugs in the world to make me buy into that line, but a certain vocal minority would certainly like to make the case otherwise...

re: Has detailed critiquing of Blu-Rays gone overboard.

I fully agree. Valid arguments and complaints are part of the A/V-world, but there are limits to everything.

edit: I personally would love to get "lossless"-audio on *every* Blu-ray-release (with 50gb disc!), JUST as I wanted DTS on every SD DVD-release back in the days. But, the lack of "lossless" won´t stop me from buying - let alone *enjoying* the film. JUST like it didn´t stop from enjoying those SD DVD-releases without the DTS-track.

My point? There are "complains" and then there are "complains".

re: Has detailed critiquing of Blu-Rays gone overboard.

I think the "complaining" is perfectly valid. It sure seems to me that some people are simply defending blu-ray to the death rather than wanting higher quality that everyone knows the studios are capable of delivering. Everyone loves that we have blu-ray/easily obtainable HD media in the house now but that doesn't mean it should get a pass and the complaints should HELP the future quality of the product so while it may annoy some at least be happy it is there.

Remember back in the day when people were "complaining" about non-anamorphic transfers? There were many at the time who said "it is no big deal" but look at how that turned out and the "complaining" no doubt helped everyone in the end. I fail to see why the DNR/EE "complaining" won't be the same.

I just am boggled at how in 10 years many people have simply gone from caring about this type of stuff to just accepting what they are given with this new format. I blame reality tv for this...hehe

re: Has detailed critiquing of Blu-Rays gone overboard.

We have seen what the format is capable of.
And we have seen the many titles that do not live up to those capabilities.

If nobody speaks up nothing will change so we need detailed critiques as even at the studios many do not even know what we are talking about - show them what the problem areas are and continue to do so until things change.

Hyperbole on both sides will not help any cause for sure but neither will the "good enough" attitude that even many of our forum members seem to adopt.

re: Has detailed critiquing of Blu-Rays gone overboard.

I don't think there is anything wrong with demanding high standards and the ideal. The studios may never reach the highest bar consistently, but if you lower expectations, you lower the bar and standards. Keep the pressure on the studios. It worked with OAR and anamorphic enhancement for DVD and will work for BD too. No reason to get soft and wimpy at this point.

re: Has detailed critiquing of Blu-Rays gone overboard.

Absolutely there is nothing wrong with demanding high standards, but sometimes the way you demand goes a long way to getting what you want.

re: Has detailed critiquing of Blu-Rays gone overboard.

Exactly.

re: Has detailed critiquing of Blu-Rays gone overboard.

Spoken like a true diplomat

I hope we will be able to walk the fine line between excessive and unnecessarily harsh criticism on one side and the soft and wimpy approach on the other