Terminator 1 & 2 - Page 7

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

Actually, we did entertain the notion of having the cop in the alley find what looked like a human skin that had been shed like a snake, right before the T-1000 attacks him... but we kind of felt that would really confuse folks, as well as give away the gag. Plus, it was too much like "Alien"...

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Re: Terminator 1 & 2

I'm split between the Theatrical and SE versions... I prefer the TH for pacing, but I do miss the chip removal scene from the SE.

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Re: Terminator 1 & 2

Oliver, we only dropped the ESE version from T2 Extreme for disc space and programming complexity reasons... there was no consideration for T3 at all, since it's a different studio. Also, I knew that the Ultimate T2 DVD was still available, so the ESE wasn't lost.

What I've been finding is that creating any single special feature is doable; where it gets challenging is when you want to do a bunch of special features that are interactive with the film all at once; for instance, seamless branching of the different versions requires three sets of chapter menus, as well as having to EDIT the commentaries to accommodate the branching of the film versions so there are no weird mid-sentence cutoffs, and/or to decide if a bonus feature will be available for ALL versions or if it will be available and optimized for only ONE version (which means having to program it not to allow that option when a different version of the film is selected). And then if you add a programming-heavy feature like T2X's Interactive Mode to the mix, it gets even more complex... which is one of the reasons the Interactive Mode is ONLY for the SE version.

My goal with the 2003 T2X was to make it a companion disc to the 2000 UT2 DVD, not a replacement for it; New Line did this perfectly with the separate 2-disc theatrical and 4-disc extended versions for each of the LOTR films... it's really a 6-disc set with little overlap. And while we're trying to do the same with the new Blu-ray, it's a challenge to try to find that balance between trying to include everything from previous releases versus audio/picture quality versus trying new features that are to give people a reason to try Blu-ray over regular DVD. And yes, while you can put a lot of the existing SD bonus features onto a second disc (hence the Limited Edition Skynet set with the uT2 and T2X discs included), any of the special features that have to interact with the film itself --like the commentaries, Interactive Mode, Picture-in-Picture, trivia tracks, and so on-- have to live on the same disc with the movie, so there are disc space decisions to be made. We need a bigger boat... already! ;-)

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Re: Terminator 1 & 2

No offense taken, Oliver... but on the subject of image/sound quality being the primary reason to upgrade from DVD to Blu-ray, the success or failure of BD currently does not rest on that... it rests on all of the other stuff on the disc to bring "interactive" or new experiences to the consumer. While we here in the HTF take it as gospel that feature presentation quality comes first --and the studios believe this as well-- the sad fact of the matter is that no one nowadays is upgrading from DVD to BD solely on better quality... especially in this economy. There have to be other merits or features to justify the much greater cost. The general public prefers the convenience of YouTube and the interactivity they get from the web to better image quality that they simply can't really appreciate on the TVs they have. So in order to sell BD as a format, its proponents are having to push the other potential capabilities of the format, like interactivity and net connectivity. All of this by necessity takes away from the quality of the feature presentation if it is on the same disc. And most of the interactive stuff DOES have to be on the same disc as the feature... hence the dilemma of finding a balance.

I think we'd all like to see movies be presented on multiple discs, with one disc entirely devoted to the feature only with the best audio and picture quality, and then the film again on a separate disc at a slightly lower quality but with all of the interactive features... but from an economic standpoint, that's not going to happen. The good news is that HTF-minded folks are a rare and discerning breed... less than half a percent of the general population. The bad news is that this very small percentage means the direct impact on BD sales is not enough to influence content creators and studios to make discs the way we want them. However, all is not lost.

As members of the HTF, it is your responsibility to leverage your knowledge and level of standards into a larger percentage of the population. I've always said that home theatre folks can't buy enough stuff to influence the economics alone, but they are the ones that newbies and the general public turn to for advice on what to get. Not through official channels like the forums, but through friends and family. We need to spread the notion that quality counts for something, and that people need to vote with their wallets on this... which means eschewing gear and discs that are not up to snuff. If studios and player manufacturers can clearly see a trend that they can't write off as something else, they will pay attention.

For our part within the studio system, there are a lot of us who do fight for quality presentation and compelling features, and that often costs more time and resources than they are willing to pay. It's easy to just pass it off and say the studios are too frickin' cheap to pay for quality... and while in some (okay, many) cases that is true, but it comes down to a matter of simple economics for them: will consumers be willing to pay $5-10 more per disc if we included this additional feature or an extra disc? How many disc sales will we lose as the price point goes up, and what can we do to maximize the return on our investment? In the final analysis, the studios and content creators want the same thing you want: the best value for the money spent. So how do we work together to make this optimal?

One way might be to have multiple tiers of discs, which may be the way of the future when digital downloads (or BD-on-demand disc burns) are a reality: a "home theatre" version with just the film at maximum bitrates, available for a slightly higher price than the "normal" version. But this still would have to make economic sense, both for HT folks and studios. Clearly, "SuperBit" didn't work economically on DVD... but you can't say they didn't try.

Just my two cents,

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Re: Terminator 1 & 2

Lars, I can't say that the video bitrate will be the same for US and UK, because the Region B disc will have English, French and German audio on it, which takes up a LOT more room than just the English on the US disc. It's always a tradeoff... the Region B disc has DTS-HD MA lossless for both 5.1 English and 7.1 German, so it's a pretty significant chunk of space, which leaves less for picture quality. The US version has slightly higher encoding rates for picture, because if we use the same picture encode for the US as for Region B, then we would end up with a lot of unused space on the US disc, which thus penalizes American consumers for no reason other than the cost of reencoding.

We've all tried hard to make the different discs consistent in content as much as possible, but we have to hew to the language parameters and international disc configurations laid down by Studio Canal (who owns the film). Some studios choose to optimize it by spending the money to create more disc versions, with fewer languages on each; others don't have the money to do that and combine languages whenever possible. The fact that the AACS copy protection licensing for BD is so stringent that you have to pay additional license fees for EVERY stamper made... even if it's just a fix to an existing one... makes it even more costly to do more disc versions.

So I wouldn't discount the German/UK/French version just because it may have a lower picture encode bitrate... it also has full German subtitles and menus and everything, as well as a German headphone track. It all depends on what's important to you. The simple solution is to buy both! ;-)

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Re: Terminator 1 & 2

Regarding an "extended cut" of T1, that's a Cameron call... but I wouldn't do it unless we had the resources and time to do it right (and have the scenes Lowry'd like the rest of the film and remixed to match) and it was hidden as an unofficial version. I think the scenes are interesting, but I'd hate to see them cut back into the film... there was a reason they were omitted!

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Re: Terminator 1 & 2

Geoff, since the UK, French and German versions are all on one single disc release, if you're in the UK you'll get both the English DTS-HD Master Audio lossless track AND the German 7.1 dubbed track on the same disc (along with a French DTS-HD High Resolution, an English Dolby Headphone and a German non-Dolby headphone track). There is no "legit" Cameron-approved 7.1 track, of course.

Hope this helps,

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