Our Gang Collection, 80 shorts, Oct. 28 - Page 4

re: Our Gang Collection, 80 shorts, Oct. 28

Actually from disc 6 Bored of Education on they went from two reels to one reel shorts, which went from around 18 min down to 10 min.

It looks like if these are DVD-5 we will have about 3 hours on each DVD. Under normal compression you can fit 2 hours on a single layer and 4 hours on a dual layer disc. These single layer discs will have 3 hours on each one which very well could lead to bad compression problems if not dual layered.

Can anyone in good with the Genius representives want to verify if all 8 discs will be single layer DVD-5s?

I just did a check on which shorts were one, two or three reel one's and came up with an estimation of how much video will be on each dvd. I do hope that all of these discs will be double layered:

Disc 1 (3 hours 30 min)

Small Talk (3 reels)
Railroadin' (2 reels)
Boxing Gloves (2 reels)
Lazy Days (2 reels)
Bouncing Babies (2 reels)
Moan & Groan, Inc. (2 reels)
Shivering Shakespeare (2 reels)
The First Seven Years (2 reels)
When The Wind Blows (2 reels)
Bear Shooters (2 reels)

Disc 2 (3 hours 20 min)

A Tough Winter (2 reels)
Pups Is Pups (2 reels)
Teacher's Pet (2 reels)
School's Out (2 reels)
Helping Grandma (2 reels)
Love Business (2 reels)
Little Daddy (2 reels)
Bargain Day (2 reels)
Fly My Kite (2 reels)
Big Ears (2 reels)

Disc 3 (3 hours 20 min)

Shiver My Timbers (2 reels)
Dogs Is Dogs (2 reels)
Readin' And Writin' (2 reels)
Free Eats (2 reels)
Spanky (2 reels)
Choo-Choo! (2 reels)
The Pooch (2 reels)
Hook And Ladder (2 reels)
Free Wheeling (2 reels)
Birthday Blues (2 reels)

Disc 4 (3 hours 20 min)

A Lad An' A Lamp (2 reels)
Fish Hookey (2 reels)
Forgotten Babies (2 reels)
The Kid From Borneo (2 reels)
Mush And Milk (2 reels)
Betime Worries (2 reels)
Wild Poses (2 reels)
Hi' Neighbor! (2 reels)
For Pete's Sake (2 reels)
The First Round-Up (2 reels)

Disc 5 (3 hours 20 min)

Honky Donkey (2 reels)
Mike Fright (2 reels)
Washee Ironee (2 reels)
Mama's Little Pirate (2 reels)
Shrimps For A Day (2 reels)
Anniversary Trouble (2 reels)
Beginner's Luck (2 reels)
Teacher's Beau (2 reels)
Sprucin' Up (2 reels)
Little Papa (2 reels)

Disc 6 (3 hours 20 min)

Little Sinner (2 reels)
Our Gang Follies Of 1936 (2 reels)
The Lucky Corner (2 reels)
Divot Diggers (2 reels)
The Pinch Singer (2 reels)
Second Childhood (2 reels)
Arbor Day (2 reels)
Bored Of Education (1 reel)
Two Too Young (1 reel)
Pay As You Exit (1 reel)
Spooky Hooky (1 reel)
Reunion In Rhythm (1 reel)
Glove Taps (1 reel)

Disc 7 (3 hours)

Hearts Are Thumps (1 reel)
Three Smart Boys (1 reel)
Rushin' Ballet (1 reel)
Roamin' Holiday (1 reel)
Night 'N' Gales (1 reel)
Fishy Tales (1 reel)
Framing Youth (1 reel)
The Pigskin Palooka (1 reel)
Mail And Female (1 reel)
Our Gang Follies Of 1938 (2 Reels)
Canned Fishing (1 reel)
Bear Facts (1 reel)
Three Men In A Tub (1 reel)
Came The Brawn (1 reel)
Feed 'Em And Weep (1 reel)
The Awful Tooth (1 reel)
Hide And Shriek (1 reel)

3 reelers 30 minutes
2 reelers 20 minutes
1 reelers 10 minutes

re: Our Gang Collection, 80 shorts, Oct. 28

DOG HEAVEN was on a special VHS tape called "For Pete's Sake," dedicated to Pete, which also included previously-released shorts. In some packages it came with a stuffed Pete.

re: Our Gang Collection, 80 shorts, Oct. 28

If these aren't dual layered we could be in for trouble.

It is unthinkable that a a major or semi-major label could be cramming 3+hours on a single layer disc in 2008. I echo Dan's request for confirmation or refutation of this ASAP. If it's a cost issue I'd gladly pay a few $ more for dual layered discs to get maximum quality.

Putting that aside for the moment, this is shaping up to be a great set content wise. Jackie Cooper is conspicuously absent but if memory serves he considers himself retired and doesn't make appearances anymore. At age 86 he's earned the right.

re: Our Gang Collection, 80 shorts, Oct. 28

If these are single layered I will be cancelling my preorder.

re: Our Gang Collection, 80 shorts, Oct. 28

Richard Bann co-authored the Leonard Maltin book on the Little Rascals. Richard Lewis Ward has written on the history of the Hal Roach Studios.
Annie Ross appeared in the Our Gang Follies of 1938. I don't know who Tom Hatten is..

I think the biggest name missing in this set for a current commentary or interview or whatever is Jackie Cooper, but I guess if he's retired, then he's retired...


It's too bad that they couldn't also include the silents already released in the Cabin Fever tapes, but I'm still grateful to get what they're willing to give.

re: Our Gang Collection, 80 shorts, Oct. 28

Yeah you are probably right. I'll just cancel my pre-order and wait to see what the reviewers say about the picture quality and compression after it is released. I already know what to expect from Sony with Three Stooges but have no idea what to expect from this company and it is not worth the risk in my opinion.

re: Our Gang Collection, 80 shorts, Oct. 28

I've got an e-mail into Genius' press contact to see if they'll comment on this layering issue (as well as prospects for a L&H release). I'm not going to cancel my pre-order on incomplete information and I want to lock in the $54 price if this single layer scare proves false.

re: Our Gang Collection, 80 shorts, Oct. 28

I share the compression concerns, but don't forget that B&W takes up a lot less bandwidth than color, so one can afford to cram on more material than one normally would with color.

re: Our Gang Collection, 80 shorts, Oct. 28

See? I KNEW I should have waited!!

re: Our Gang Collection, 80 shorts, Oct. 28

I have concerns about the compression too, but I have a hard time believing that anybody is releasing anything on DVD-5 this late in the game (aside from PD releases). My gut is that somebody confused dual-layer with dual-sided. At least, that's what I'm hoping, because 4 hours on a single layer would be atrocious looking.

Does anybody know what the production cost difference is between a single and dual layer dvd? My guess is that it would be extremely minimal at this point. Even if it was $.50/disc, that's $4 for the set and I for one would gladly pay that.

re: Our Gang Collection, 80 shorts, Oct. 28

I was going to say the same thing

re: Our Gang Collection, 80 shorts, Oct. 28

Tom Hatten is a famous Los Angeles kids television host. He used to show Popeye cartoons and Little Rascals shorts every Saturday morning on KTLA Channel 5. If you grew up in Los Angeles, he was responsible for introducing you to Popeye and the Little Rascals.

re: Our Gang Collection, 80 shorts, Oct. 28

When MGM bought the rights to "Our Gang" it included the title "Our Gang".
The reason the films were shown on TV as the "Little Rascals" was because
MGM owned the "Our Gang" name. When MGM released some of their "Our Gang"
comedies years ago on VHS , they used the name.

When the Little Rascals were shown on TV in the 50's and 60's, all title references to "Our Gang" had to be
cut from the prints. It nice that the original titles will be restored.

re: Our Gang Collection, 80 shorts, Oct. 28

Thanks for that Gary - but I understood the story behind the name change. My question was asking if these are the original uncut theatrical shorts, then why aren't they called by their proper title?

Just more curious than anything, I suppose.

re: Our Gang Collection, 80 shorts, Oct. 28

Legally, the name Our Gang belonged to M-G-M (presumably now Warner Bros.). To promote the set under that name, Genius would have to be licensed to use it.

Of course, that gets me thinking about two things now:

(1) King World owns the name The Little Rascals, right?

(2) Why is it okay for these films -- any older films, for that matter -- to be shown with their original studio logos and names, in cases where the original releasing studio no longer owns the film, when it wasn't okay 30 to 50 years ago?

Just curious too. I am glad this set is coming out and looking forward to it!

re: Our Gang Collection, 80 shorts, Oct. 28

GREAT NEWS:

A representative from Genius has confirmed to me that these discs will be dual layered (DVD-9). These single layer reports are in error and, as previously speculated by Eric Peterson, likely the result of someone confusing single sided with single layer.

The rep had no info on L&H "at this time". Sounds like the kind of response you'd give when you really mean "can't say yet". (I may be reading too much into it)

Steve

re: Our Gang Collection, 80 shorts, Oct. 28

(whew) - good news. Nice work!

The L&H thing is at least hopeful at this point. At least your answer wasn't a definitive "Nope".

re: Our Gang Collection, 80 shorts, Oct. 28

That is great news! I hadn't cancelled my pre-order yet and will not be after hearing this. I tried to revisit the forum Littlerascals.net to see if there were any updates to the person that talked to a genius representive at comic con but their site has been down ever since I visited their forum a few days ago and copied and pasted the user's comments to this thread.

http://www.thelittlerascals.net/

re: Our Gang Collection, 80 shorts, Oct. 28

That's good news. I suspected the initial report was false. But are these dual-sided? They don't need to be, do they?

Now with this set and the silent Our Gang shorts also coming soon, will WB release the other third of the entire series?

re: Our Gang Collection, 80 shorts, Oct. 28

For anyone interested in the Laurel & Hardy shorts and movies from the 30's, check out the TCM line up for Aug 23rd where they will be showing 32 shorts and movies:

Turner Classic Movie Schedule - TCM Channel Guide

re: Our Gang Collection, 80 shorts, Oct. 28

Great news Steve! Thanks for digging deeper!

re: Our Gang Collection, 80 shorts, Oct. 28

But where's Leonard Maltin in the new set? If he's not in it, I might as well keep the Cabin Fever DVDs in addition to the new set!

re: Our Gang Collection, 80 shorts, Oct. 28

In the early 1950's Studios considered TV to be a threat to their well being. Why go to a movie when you can stay home and watch TV. The studios did not want their names associated with TV. Part of the agreements to sell to TV was that the studio name be removed from prints. Therefore RKO, one of the first to sell films to TV, became C&C Movietime, Paramount had its name removed from all its cartoons etc. Later in the 50's it did not matter as studios started selling directly to TV.
The TV prints were already changed. In some cases the original credits were destroyed and couldn't be restored. You can see this on some RKO films on TCM. The title page of the film is a still picture.
It looks frozen. Rather than fade to the next credit , it jumps. The rest of the credits fade as they are meant to.

re: Our Gang Collection, 80 shorts, Oct. 28

He is definitely a strange omission considering he's one of the preeminent "Our Gang" scholars. His introductions from the old videos wouldn't work here though. Those introductions were based on four shorts that were not in chronological order. I'm sure that the majority of the info in these introductions is available in his book which already sits on my shelf, so it's not a huge loss. It is bizarre that he didn't record anything new though (especially a commentary track or two). I wonder if he wanted too much $$$ to be involved.

re: Our Gang Collection, 80 shorts, Oct. 28

I remember in the late 1970s, Blackhawk Films released a special anniversary edition of Laurel & Hardy's "Big Business," and unlike their usual retitlings, they included the original theatrical titles except for placing their own Indian-head (sorry, I mean Native American-head) over the M-G-M logo. In their bulletin, they said they had to do this for legal reasons. This was in the late 1970s...

There are one or two early Our Gang talkies on the Cabin Fever tapes that had the M-G-M logo (the small one at the bottom of the screen) taken out or obscured in the titles. I'm thinking "Bouncing Babies" may have been one of them, but it's been a long time since I watched them. I wonder what project that was done for...I note that otherwise, the shorts all had the original unaltered titles, but some had the opening roaring lion cut off. Maybe that happened on the original negatives?

The Little Rascals shorts are currently airing on Chicago on Me-Too (Channel 48), which I can't pick up very well. They formerly aired on Me-TV (Channel 23, or 223 on Comcast). They are colorized versions with the color turned off. Apart from that, they appeared to be the King World edits, but with the original theatrical titles. But there were a few odd cases. A few of the shorts have a contemporary "Hal Roach Studios" logo and the name "The Little Rascals" replacing M-G-M and Our Gang...but just on a few shorts. Some also have added music. I didn't see this one, but a friend told me one of the shorts (is it "Little Sinner?") appeared to have LeRoy Shield music dubbed over almost the entire soundtrack, obliterating all the dialogue. Anyone seen these?

Not trying to scare you...the above will not be on the DVDs. That's just what they're showing in Chicago.

re: Our Gang Collection, 80 shorts, Oct. 28

Has anyone asked Leonard about why he isn't part of the set? I thought he was pretty good about answering emails.

re: Our Gang Collection, 80 shorts, Oct. 28

Regarding credit changes due to film libraries changing hands- you have to hand it to the gang at Warner Bros. for restoring a good deal of the credits from classic cartoons that changed hands over the years. As a kid I grew up with those awful AAP credits for classic WB and Popeye cartoons. Also, does anyone also remember the MCA TV credit put out in from of every old Paramount film shown on TV? It was "mca tv" in small letters with a fanfare before the Paramount logo was shown (this was for the pre-50 library that MCA bought). Alas, in some cases the original credits have yet to be found or restored yet. I remember seeing Annabel Takes A Trip starring Lucille Ball on TCM and the opening credit wasn't an RKO original, but one from TV syndication. I only hope the people at Warner Home Video can somehow locate an original print or recreate the original RKO credits for DVD release.

Back to Our Gang: I recently rented a DVD of colorized shorts made by Legend Films, and yes, the credits betrayed their PD status, using prints that were used in syndication with different names for the series, like "Hal Roach's Kids & Pals", that sort of thing. It was only as a teenager reading about the history of the series (thanks for writing your book, Mr. Maltin!) that I discovered the MGM connection. Hopefully we'll see Leo the Lion in the new DVD set, followed by the original Hal Roach Studio credits.

re: Our Gang Collection, 80 shorts, Oct. 28

With Laughsmith's 27 silent shorts (+5 non-Rascals shorts=32) and the additional 3 silents on this set, that'd be 30 out of the 88 silents released in a decent manner on DVD. Someone still needs to release the other 51 silents, also, not counting what I think I've read are 7 "lost" films. With as many years as it's taken Laughsmith to put this set together, I doubt we'll ever see the remaining silent shorts in a decent release.

Personally, I'd rather have the remaining silents before the WB-owned shorts, but it'd be nice if WB released what they own anyway...

re: Our Gang Collection, 80 shorts, Oct. 28

Is anyone wanting the MGM "Our Gang" shorts to be released on DVD? You know, the ones with Froggy, Janet (gag) and that vile Mickey Gubitosi? Or would you rather do what I do, i.e., pretend they don't exist?

re: Our Gang Collection, 80 shorts, Oct. 28

Perhaps Mr. Maltin is MIA on this set because he's working on a L&H set? One can only hope. As much as he's done for "the Boys" over the past 40 years it would only be fitting.

Ideally Randy Skretvedt, Scott MacGillivray, and Lois Laurel will also be part of a L&H set.

Warner does not release dedicated collections of their short subjects (I wish they would) which makes an MGM Our Gang collection unlikely.