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Bits now confirms - Warner drops lossless audio for Speed Racer BD - Page 3

post #61 of 103
7/30/08 at 3:11pm

re: Bits now confirms - Warner drops lossless audio for Speed Racer BD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun
Should we all start worrying now about The Dark Knight?

I doubt it. TDK is a monster hit vs Speed Racer as a monster failure. Gauranteed, TDK is going to get the deluxe treatment from Warner.

SR is getting the short end because Warner doesn't want to send good money after bad. Even if that money only amounts to a few cents per disc.
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post #62 of 103
7/30/08 at 4:50pm

re: Bits now confirms - Warner drops lossless audio for Speed Racer BD

I have a feeling this BD, if done well, could have become a "guilty pleasure" type of purchase for that demographic that wouldn't go to see the movie (oh wait, that was all demographics...). I do think that the demographic the movie was *probably* intended to reach couldn't care less about lossless audio.

In my case, I only buy BDs where a very good effort was made into trying to make the feature as good as currently possible. I can live without extras if they did that.
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post #63 of 103
7/30/08 at 5:01pm
Thread Starter 

re: Bits now confirms - Warner drops lossless audio for Speed Racer BD

Quote:
I bet if HD-DVD was still around, Warner would have given it the full HD treatment with lossless audio and the works. What's the deal with them? Are they still sore that HD-DVD failed and are taking it out on the consumers?

Well, since it was basically Warner that turned events towards a single-format HD solution, I doubt that they're sore on the point, though the studio's inconsistency on this release could be a sign of some unexpected internal studio politics.

I hope everyone realises that there IS NO EXCUSE for not including lossless even on this BD25. NONE. If there wasn't enough bandwidth Warner could have scrapped one or two alternate language tracks and done TrueHD for the original language. And it doesn't "cost more" to provide lossless: if royalties were the issue, they could have gone PCM.

Just wait... when the disc streets it will probably have a lower average video-bit rate than Sony's MPEG2 PCM BD25 titles that had lossless audio!
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post #64 of 103
7/30/08 at 5:01pm

re: Bits now confirms - Warner drops lossless audio for Speed Racer BD

so why won't Warner add lossless as standard?

this will be very disappointing if SR doesn't have trueHD.
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post #65 of 103
7/30/08 at 5:20pm

Re: Bits now confirms - Warner drops lossless audio for Speed Racer BD

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
I hope everyone realises that there IS NO EXCUSE for not including lossless even on this BD25. NONE. If there wasn't enough bandwidth Warner could have scrapped one or two alternate language tracks and done TrueHD for the original language. And it doesn't "cost more" to provide lossless: if royalties were the issue, they could have gone PCM.

This is something I just don't get. Fox / MGM, Universal, Sony and Disney all include lossless audio tracks on every release, whether it be DTS HD/MA, Dolby TrueHD or PCM. Sometimes they even have multiple lossless tracks. Why can't WB make it a standard like everyone else? The success of a film shouldn't even have to play a part. It should be about providing the highest quality of presentation that's possible.
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post #66 of 103
7/30/08 at 5:35pm

Re: Bits now confirms - Warner drops lossless audio for Speed Racer BD

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBat
you would think they would do a special edition for speed racer.. didn't they do a special edition for wild wild west.. and that movie was terrible.. I never saw speedracer.. I know that it has its fans.

Jacob
Yeah, that's the ticket!
Remember the three disc "Windtalker" on SD DVD?!?!?!
That's how you treat a "dog".
Put it in a tin case; like those terrible PD DVD's.

This is CRAZY!!!
Modern movie: OLD soundtrack
Catalog title: MODERN soundtrack

EDitEDbyED:
What is the cost difference between a lossy & lossless soundtrack?
Or, are we ONLY talking space?
Then its what's the cost difference between BD25 & BD50?
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post #67 of 103
7/30/08 at 6:27pm

Re: Bits now confirms - Warner drops lossless audio for Speed Racer BD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed St. Clair
Yeah, that's the ticket!
Remember the three disc "Windtalker" on SD DVD?!?!?!
That's how you treat a "dog".
Put it in a tin case; like those terrible PD DVD's.

This is CRAZY!!!
Modern movie: OLD soundtrack
Catalog title: MODERN soundtrack

EDitEDbyED:
What is the cost difference between a lossy & lossless soundtrack?
Or, are we ONLY talking space?
Then its what's the cost difference between BD25 & BD50?
Ed's nailed it again with another solid point. I recently bought both "Lost Boys" films on Blu-ray. "Lost Boys" has Dolby TrueHD and all the special features from the previous 2 disc sd dvd, while "Lost Boys 2: the Tribe" has lossy 5.1 standard and it's own special features. the only difference is LB2 has one of those BS digital copies. You can keep your digital copy crap and continue to give me lossless audio instead. So, why are older catalog titles getting better audio treatment than current releases? Regardless, SpeedRacer should have lossless audio. There's no excuse for this bullshit. With some current Blu-rays picture presentation only reaching scores of 3 to 3.5 and not getting lossless audio to boot I may just start buying the sd dvd releases on certain titles. And that sucks because I love Blu-ray and want to support it. Get it together Warner.
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post #68 of 103
7/30/08 at 6:55pm

Re: Bits now confirms - Warner drops lossless audio for Speed Racer BD

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
Well, since it was basically Warner that turned events towards a single-format HD solution, I doubt that they're sore on the point, though the studio's inconsistency on this release could be a sign of some unexpected internal studio politics.

I hope everyone realises that there IS NO EXCUSE for not including lossless even on this BD25. NONE. If there wasn't enough bandwidth Warner could have scrapped one or two alternate language tracks and done TrueHD for the original language. And it doesn't "cost more" to provide lossless: if royalties were the issue, they could have gone PCM.

Just wait... when the disc streets it will probably have a lower average video-bit rate than Sony's MPEG2 PCM BD25 titles that had lossless audio!

So they didn't do this to save money, they did this for some unknown absurd reason, they're not greedy...they're just crazy.

I don't know about any of you but I feel better about this whole thing (he says throwing his hands up in the air from frustration).

Warner
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post #69 of 103
7/30/08 at 7:02pm

Re: Bits now confirms - Warner drops lossless audio for Speed Racer BD

Quote:
Originally Posted by troy evans
With some current Blu-rays picture presentation only reaching scores of 3 to 3.5 and not getting lossless audio to boot I may just start buying the sd dvd releases on certain titles. And that sucks because I love Blu-ray and want to support it.
Scary!!!
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post #70 of 103
7/30/08 at 7:05pm

Re: Bits now confirms - Warner drops lossless audio for Speed Racer BD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector Hammer!
...they're just crazy.
Like yr sig!

(see ^^^ for my "crazy" comment!)
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post #71 of 103
7/30/08 at 7:10pm

Re: Bits now confirms - Warner drops lossless audio for Speed Racer BD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed St. Clair
Like yr sig!

(see ^^^ for my "crazy" comment!)

Thanks.

And I wholeheartedly agree with your post. I don't know which is worse, them doing this for absolutely no concievable reason or to save money.
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post #72 of 103
7/30/08 at 8:05pm

Re: Bits now confirms - Warner drops lossless audio for Speed Racer BD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_G
This is something I just don't get. Fox / MGM, Universal, Sony and Disney all include lossless audio tracks on every release, whether it be DTS HD/MA, Dolby TrueHD or PCM. Sometimes they even have multiple lossless tracks. Why can't WB make it a standard like everyone else? The success of a film shouldn't even have to play a part. It should be about providing the highest quality of presentation that's possible.





you know, this is basically the point i wanted to make in the topic asking what does warner have against lossles? but mostly all i got was responses defending warner.


my title of that thread was even changed without me asking for it.
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post #73 of 103
7/30/08 at 8:23pm

Re: Bits now confirms - Warner drops lossless audio for Speed Racer BD

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
my title of that thread was even changed without me asking for it.
Who's "rolling" now?!?!?!
:-)
Night Tony, don't let the HT bugs bite.
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post #74 of 103
7/30/08 at 8:42pm

Re: Bits now confirms - Warner drops lossless audio for Speed Racer BD

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post #75 of 103
7/30/08 at 8:57pm

Re: Bits now confirms - Warner drops lossless audio for Speed Racer BD

Just watched Doomsday tonight - stellar transfer, darn near reference DTS-MA track, and a one hour and 53 minute movie, all on a BD25. Insanely fun movie, BTW. Really makes the decision by Warner all the more disheartening. I guess the only way to truly get your voice heard is with your wallet - I'll open mine for Universal, but Warner isn't going to see a dime on what should have been an easy purchase.
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post #76 of 103
7/30/08 at 9:11pm

Re: Bits now confirms - Warner drops lossless audio for Speed Racer BD

Quote:
I bet if HD-DVD was still around, Warner would have given it the full HD treatment with lossless audio and the works.
Extremely doubtful, only a handful of HD-DVDs had lossless tracks, most all had DD+ only.
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post #77 of 103
7/31/08 at 3:28am

Re: Bits now confirms - Warner drops lossless audio for Speed Racer BD

No reason to complain, it will still be better than the DVD.
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post #78 of 103
7/31/08 at 3:37am

Re: Bits now confirms - Warner drops lossless audio for Speed Racer BD

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR
No reason to complain, it will still be better than the DVD.

Yes but it will not be referance, which it easily should have been.

My silver lining is that Cars will continue to reign supreme as my #1 choice to show BD off to people.
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post #79 of 103
7/31/08 at 5:00am

Re: Bits now confirms - Warner drops lossless audio for Speed Racer BD

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR
No reason to complain, it will still be better than the DVD.

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post #80 of 103
7/31/08 at 5:31am

Re: Bits now confirms - Warner drops lossless audio for Speed Racer BD

While WB should be given much credit for there HD video transfers as they have put out alot of great looking titles. WB has also dropped the ball on many titles by not including lossless audio. People buy Blu-ray for the best possible picture and the best possible sound. So why is WB giving us horrible lossy Dolby Digital? This is not just a matter of Speed Racer tanking at the box office IMHO, WB has stuck way to many titles with Dolby Digital. And as long as the movie is new enough to have a 5.1 track I will continue to not buy titles that do not include lossless audio!

Lossy Dolby Digital on Blu-ray = NO SALE
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post #81 of 103
7/31/08 at 5:51am

Re: Bits now confirms - Warner drops lossless audio for Speed Racer BD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Moritz
While WB should be given much credit for there HD video transfers as they have put out alot of great looking titles. WB has also dropped the ball on many titles by not including lossless audio. People buy Blu-ray for the best possible picture and the best possible sound. So why is WB giving us horrible lossy Dolby Digital? This is not just a matter of Speed Racer tanking at the box office IMHO, WB has stuck way to many titles with Dolby Digital. And as long as the movie is new enough to have a 5.1 track I will continue to not buy titles that do not include lossless audio!

Lossy Dolby Digital on Blu-ray = NO SALE
"Horrible"? Really? Is it really "horrible"?

As I noted in the 'are there too many complaints' thread, this is the kind of hyperbole that is irritating. Is it less than the ideal (given what is possible)? Certainly. Is it disappointing? Of course. Do people have the right to complain and withhold their money? Sure. But do we really need such exaggeration?
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post #82 of 103
7/31/08 at 6:10am
Thread Starter 

Re: Bits now confirms - Warner drops lossless audio for Speed Racer BD

Has everyone called to complain directly to Warner?

Address: 4000 Warner Blvd.
Burbank, CA 91522
Phone: 818-954-6000
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post #83 of 103
7/31/08 at 6:24am

Re: Bits now confirms - Warner drops lossless audio for Speed Racer BD

I really don't understand what the hell Warner is thinking. It seems like only the other day they were promising lossless going forward, and they've denied it to the most high profile demo disc they have coming!

I think someone mentioned earlier that people buying it for their kids would buy the DVDs. I agree with that - to sell blu-rays to us HT buffs, all we needed was a stellar presentation...

NOT a useless digital copy that probably won't even play on my iPod.

NOT a stupid DVD game disc.

A BD50 with stellar video and audio. That's all they needed to sell it to the older demographic. One disc instead of three.

I had this in my cart at the Warner Bros store. Its coming out - NO SALE.
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post #84 of 103
7/31/08 at 7:33am

Re: Bits now confirms - Warner drops lossless audio for Speed Racer BD

This was a definate release-day purchase for me. Now I'm gonna wait for several reviews to come in before buying....
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post #85 of 103
7/31/08 at 9:40am

Re: Bits now confirms - Warner drops lossless audio for Speed Racer BD

Quote:

As I noted in the 'are there too many complaints' thread, this is the kind of hyperbole that is irritating. Is it less than the ideal (given what is possible)? Certainly. Is it disappointing? Of course. Do people have the right to complain and withhold their money? Sure. But do we really need such exaggeration?

I honestly do not see anything all that great about Dolby Digital. I have not liked it in the theater, laser discs, sd-dvd and I still do not want it especially on HD media. Another thing I think that it is poor marketing to advertise Blu-ray as cutting edge and how much storage it has and to put old school Dolby Digital makes no sense to me at all. I supported DTS because I felt that it was more natural sounding and was more transparent vs Dolby Digital. DD lacks trasparency and has a muddy sound to it IMHO. The thing I really do not like is that we have a 1080p format and we are ending up with Dolby Digital tracks, whats that all about? And while I still enjoy lossy DTS I do not want to see that used as a stand alone format on HD ether. I have found Dolby Digital to be highly disapointing and will not spend my hard earned money for HD software with DD audio.

I buy Blu-ray for a prestine 1080p picture and the best audio available which to me means, DTS-HD MA, Dolby True HD or LPCM. Obviously people are free to buy what they want and not everything sounds the same to everyone else. Some like Dolby Digital and for them if a HD title has DD, they will buy it no matter what. But for those who do not want DD it doesn't make any sense to buy the disc with DD only to replace it with another version a few years later. I own both HD-DVD and Blu-ray and one of the reasons I stopped buying HD-DVD was Dolby Digital Plus. Not a big fan of that format ether! Yes it does offer better sound over DD but not enough in my book. So instead of buying even more DD+ titles that I would end up replacing anyway I stopped buying HD-DVD. HD to me is about owning the best presentation on the market today and using lossy sound IMHO is not how you go about it. If I was going to buy a title that sound did not matter then I would most likely end up buying it on SD-DVD as well to pick it up really cheap. And that point I really would not care if it was in DD or DTS unless it is a title that warrents DTS and is something that is not going to see HD for many years.
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post #86 of 103
7/31/08 at 4:24pm

Re: Bits now confirms - Warner drops lossless audio for Speed Racer BD

Man, wasn't this movie a loser!...at the box office? Shouldn't they try to earn more money with the video release? It will be a loser in the home theater release also?
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post #87 of 103
7/31/08 at 10:03pm

Re: Bits now confirms - Warner drops lossless audio for Speed Racer BD

Dave Moritz made an excellent point above. Isn't the whole point to Blu-ray simply to offer high definition picture=1080p and High definition audio=DDTrueHD, DTS-HD or Master or at least uncompressed PCM? It takes pretty big balls to release Hi-Def Blu-rays in this kind of half-assed fashion is all I'm sayin'. Premium products should equal premium quality or lower the damn price of these BD's. I invested in Blu-ray for it's ability to excell above and beyond sd dvd. Not to be as good in the audio department. If we settle for this BS it'll never stop.
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post #88 of 103
8/1/08 at 12:10am

Re: Bits now confirms - Warner drops lossless audio for Speed Racer BD

By dropping the lossless track we are getting a half-assed product, and I don't buy those. There's plenty of space on a BD-25 for 1080p and lossless.

Thanks Dave for that info, I will make a call.
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post #89 of 103
8/1/08 at 6:31am

Re: Bits now confirms - Warner drops lossless audio for Speed Racer BD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-P
By dropping the lossless track we are getting a half-assed product, and I don't buy those. There's plenty of space on a BD-25 for 1080p and lossless.
Your posts in this thread have been interesting, Ron.

What happened to "quit nit-picking and just watch the movie"?

M.
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post #90 of 103
8/1/08 at 6:46am

Re: Bits now confirms - Warner drops lossless audio for Speed Racer BD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Reuben
Your posts in this thread have been interesting, Ron.

What happened to "quit nit-picking and just watch the movie"?

M.
I was going to say the same thing. To slightly edit his post from the "Has detailed critiquing of Blu-Rays gone overboard" thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-P
IMO, yes. It's not a perfect format. Is it better then SD, yes, but some people expect the perfect sound, not going to happen. Enjoy the film, don't nit-pick the quality of the sound.
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