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post #421 of 439
5/13/09 at 10:41am

Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector Hammer!
Ah, okay, thanks, Joseph.

And just to confirm whether i'm clear on Walter and Peter, the Peter in this world died when he was seven and so Walter snatched Peter away from the other Walter in the alternate universe, brought him back here to our world and raised him?

One has to wonder what effect that had on the other Walter since he lives in a universe where Peter disappeared.

You are correct.

I thought it was a terrific finale, and I can't wait for season 2.

The situation with Walter snatching the Other Peter is both completely understandable and completely saddening. It raises the question about the potential war the ZFT warns of, and the ethics chapter missing from all but Walter's copy. Surely Walter himself is violating some sort of ethical guideline by taking Peter from the other reality? It is feasible that the event that sparked the war between the two universes was the kidnapping. Imagine the fury Other Walter would have, and the extremes he would be willing to go to get revenge. Perhaps Bell has killed his counterpart in the alternate reality, and is filling in as the Other Bell, attempting to endthe war from the other side?

There are so many interesting ways the show can go--I can't wait. Between LOST (I know Cuse/Lindeloff run the show now, but it's still partly his in a way), Fringe, and the new Star Trek movie, JJ Abrams has earned a free pass in my book. For the next season at least, any time it appears the show is going off the rails, I am going to trust Abrams, and wait and see. I think he's earned it
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post #422 of 439
5/13/09 at 10:48am

Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

Quote:
And, yes, Olivia clearly moves between universes in a much more 'organic' way. I think this shows the difference between Bell's philosophies and the other contingent. Jones and others attempt to bend the rules using technology. Bell and Walter seem to have attempted to alter people in order that they may cross over 'organically'.

That is an interesting thought. Reminds me of some of Bruce Sterling's fiction in which he posits two groups vying for the control of the fate of mankind. The Shapers who use genetic manipulation to augment human capabilities vs. the Mechanists who rely upon cybernetics.

- Walter.
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post #423 of 439
5/13/09 at 10:53am

Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

The one thing I keep waiting for is for Peter to call Walter "dad." I thought he was going to do it when Walter was freaking out in the beach house. I guess that's maybe a payoff for later.

Like Brian Austin Green on Terminator, Jackson is someone I had dismissed and have been pleasantly surprised by.
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post #424 of 439
5/13/09 at 11:24am

Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg_S_H
The one thing I keep waiting for is for Peter to call Walter "dad." I thought he was going to do it when Walter was freaking out in the beach house. I guess that's maybe a payoff for later.

Like Brian Austin Green on Terminator, Jackson is someone I had dismissed and have been pleasantly surprised by.

I was also anticipating Peter finally calling out "dad," when in the beach house.

I also agree with your comments about Green on Terminator, and Jackson on Fringe. I have been quite impressed with their acting.
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post #425 of 439
5/13/09 at 11:32am

Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

I don't typically guess where shows are going, though sometimes if I'm engaged enough, I can't help but project. But usually not. So I'm fairly certain that we've been giving at least some indication that there was something strange or different about Peter. I felt zero surprise over learning that Peter died and this Peter is from an alternate reality. It just felt like confirmation and exposition to me. Somewhere along the line, Walter must have said something because I've been operating under the premise that something is strange about Peter. I didn't know if it was genetic testing or what, but I knew it was something. I think Walter may have mumbled "Sorry" to Peter at one point this season or something. Unfortunately, I can't remember any details other than it was crystal clear to me at the time that the show was foreshadowing something about Peter.
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post #426 of 439
5/13/09 at 11:41am

Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

Quote:
It raises the question about the potential war the ZFT warns of, and the ethics chapter missing from all but Walter's copy. Surely Walter himself is violating some sort of ethical guideline by taking Peter from the other reality?

The ethics chapter may have been something Walter added to the manuscript himself after kidnapping the "other" Peter. And yes, you do have to wonder about Other Walter and how he's doing. (If he's still around.)

Regards,

Joe

P.S.

To revisit a question asked earlier:

Quote:
Has Walter figured out that Olive is Olivia or not? I can't tell. What he can't figure out is what they were doing or why. He left the manifesto behind, so it will be interesting to see what it holds.

I'm not so sure Olive is Olivia - at least not "our" Olivia. Now that we know that the Other World isn't just a generic parallel dimension but a specific duplicate Earth with doppelgangers of everybody, I'm starting to think that "Olive" is the Other Olivia. The tape could have been of experiments carried out by the Other Walter on his world, which may have either been inspired by "our" Walter's work - or provided the impetus for it. (There are some marvelous potentional "chicken and egg" problems when variants of the same brain compete to do similar things. )

How long until this show comes back?

Joe
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post #427 of 439
5/13/09 at 11:53am

Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph DeMartino
The ethics chapter may have been something Walter added to the manuscript himself after kidnapping the "other" Peter. And yes, you do have to wonder about Other Walter and how he's doing. (If he's still around.)

Regards,

Joe

That's what I was thinking, too. It may also be that the other copies aren't missing the chapter per se, but rather Walter's copy has it as an addition he personally added, or it was a chapter that was edited out before being spread around.

Anyway, great finale. Let's see if LOST is equal to the task, and Bad Robot can go three for three this week for me (Star Trek, Fringe, LOST).
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post #428 of 439
5/13/09 at 12:16pm

Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

Quote:
The ethics chapter may have been something Walter added to the manuscript himself after kidnapping the "other" Peter. And yes, you do have to wonder about Other Walter and how he's doing. (If he's still around.)

Heck, maybe the other Walter wrote it after having his son taken from him!
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post #429 of 439
5/13/09 at 12:28pm

Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

Sheesh, no wonder Walter's cheese slid off his cracker and got thrown into the puzzle factory, it's making me nuts just reading all this stuff lol.
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post #430 of 439
5/13/09 at 1:10pm

Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

Quote:
I'm not so sure Olive is Olivia - at least not "our" Olivia. Now that we know that the Other World isn't just a generic parallel dimension but a specific duplicate Earth with doppelgangers of everybody, I'm starting to think that "Olive" is the Other Olivia. The tape could have been of experiments carried out by the Other Walter on his world, which may have either been inspired by "our" Walter's work - or provided the impetus for it. (There are some marvelous potentional "chicken and egg" problems when variants of the same brain compete to do similar things. )

Yep, you start to wonder if they conducted those experiments on both ends, and some children "swapped places", just Walter's son couldn't make it. Interesting stuff.
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post #431 of 439
5/13/09 at 2:05pm

Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikah Cerucco
I don't typically guess where shows are going, though sometimes if I'm engaged enough, I can't help but project. But usually not. So I'm fairly certain that we've been giving at least some indication that there was something strange or different about Peter. I felt zero surprise over learning that Peter died and this Peter is from an alternate reality. It just felt like confirmation and exposition to me. Somewhere along the line, Walter must have said something because I've been operating under the premise that something is strange about Peter. I didn't know if it was genetic testing or what, but I knew it was something. I think Walter may have mumbled "Sorry" to Peter at one point this season or something. Unfortunately, I can't remember any details other than it was crystal clear to me at the time that the show was foreshadowing something about Peter.

Agreed. Early on, I had thought that Peter was actually a clone of Walter or something along those lines. They definitely have been hinting about something weird though for a long time, though I can't remember exactly either (it was definitely in the first two or three episodes.)
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post #432 of 439
5/14/09 at 12:54pm

Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

parallel universe episodes have been done to death in star trek lore as the "mirror" universe.

so while i didn't connect it before this episode, but moment that this episode began with where bishop at the graveyard and talks of parallel realities was the moment i realized our peter is dead. reason is cause i remember that walter said in past episodes how when peter was young, what he remembered, etc. or what he had to endure, etc. so that automatically clicked for me that peter is dead and walter 'stole' peter from the other reality.

as for 'live, she is "the one who will bring balance to the Force" . lots of star wars-esque stuff in JJ's works for obvious reasons.

re: X-Files comparisons, oh please. XF beats this, lost and many many current TV to pieces. XF was revolutionary, but that's not what we're here to talk about. this is a fringe thread .
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post #433 of 439
5/14/09 at 1:15pm

Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

Quote:
XF was revolutionary

The X-Files was possible at least partially due to Twin Peaks, but I guess that is for another thread.

- Walter.
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post #434 of 439
5/14/09 at 2:03pm

Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

The reveal with Peter actually caught me by surprise... I don't know if it's a result of me just having been dumber than usual that night, or having started with the show fairly recently (I caught up with like fifteen episodes in one giant binge), but I had totally forgotten what happened to Peter's mom. So when Walter was talking about having lost something precious or whatever the exact wording was, initially my thoughts flashed to the mom... it was pretty cool not to have seen that particular detail coming.

It would be really cool if they were able to keep things like the Leonard Nimoy appearance under wraps, what an awesome surprise that would have been. Then again, the only reason I started watching Fringe in the first place was because I read Nimoy had agreed to appear on the show, so if they had kept it a secret, I probably wouldn't be watching at all. I'm glad I did.
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post #435 of 439
5/14/09 at 2:21pm

Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Kittel
The X-Files was possible at least partially due to Twin Peaks, but I guess that is for another thread.

- Walter.

And Walter would have fit in perfectly in Twin Peaks, too
Damn fine show! (actually, they all are)
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post #436 of 439
5/14/09 at 4:25pm

Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

this is one of the few shows that actually still holds my interest 100%. when i watch many other shows i am often multitasking. this one completely holds my attention.
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post #437 of 439
5/19/09 at 11:00am

Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

FOX is moving Fringe to Thursday nights in the fall (unless they change their mind).

Meanwhile, I was thinking about the finale again. Does anyone remember the details of what Walter said was his first encounter with the Observer? I thought he said something about the Observer saving either his or Peter's life.

Anyway, I was thinking that between the two realities in one Peter survived while in the other Walter survived and the Observer ended up uniting them.
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post #438 of 439
5/19/09 at 1:33pm

Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

Peter and Walter were in a car sinking into the frozen water and the Observer pulled Peter out. It was assumed he pulled Walter out, too, but in light of what we know now, one would have to rewatch the scene (or have a better memory than I) to know for sure.
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post #439 of 439
5/19/09 at 1:34pm

Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

the observer saved Peter's life when he was drowning... drowning where i dunno. maybe the observer put the dead peter, who did die from drowning into the parallel universe and kidnapped the alt. Peter back to this one.
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