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Alfred Hitchcock Premiere Collection - Oct 14, 2008 - Page 4

post #91 of 256
8/7/08 at 1:52am

Re: Alfred Hitchcock Premiere Collection - Oct 14, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick McCart
Isn't it possible that the extra footage was taken out by Hitchcock, but after some film elements were made? Even if it exists, it would be terrible to put it back in if he didn't intend it to be there.

No, this footage apart from the letter writing insert, which was changed for specific countries, were US censor cuts. One of which, the spied on undressing was featured as 'censored footage' in the making of docu on Universal's CE.

As for retaining the Master's film in a censor neutered version, I don't agree.
And yes, sadly, even Hitchcock wasn't above the censors.

Here's the cuts page in English Movie-Censorship.com
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post #92 of 256
8/7/08 at 5:21am

Re: Alfred Hitchcock Premiere Collection - Oct 14, 2008

If he had taken out the shots after the censor's requests, it's still his cut of the film.

As for Hitchcock's shooting methods... efficient for the most part, but it's not the case for Notorious, The Paradine Case, Spellbound, Strangers on a Train, Topaz. Also consider the extended ending to Vertigo he made for export. It's an extra on the DVD, as it should remain.
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post #93 of 256
8/7/08 at 5:30am

Re: Alfred Hitchcock Premiere Collection - Oct 14, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick McCart
If he had taken out the shots after the censor's requests, it's still his cut of the film.

Yes you're right, it's still his cut of the film, albeit a censored cut. And thus artistically compromised.

I know which version I would prefer.

I'm not discussing an alternate edition the director prepared, this is censorship. And quite frankly I'm surprised that others are happy to accept the master's work, censored.
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post #94 of 256
8/7/08 at 6:23am

Re: Alfred Hitchcock Premiere Collection - Oct 14, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Caleb
Yes you're right, it's still his cut of the film, albeit a censored cut. And thus artistically compromised.

I know which version I would prefer.

I'm not discussing an alternate edition the director prepared, this is censorship. And quite frankly I'm surprised that others are happy to accept the master's work, censored.

The film was made in 1960, censorship - or rather industry self regulation - was part and parcel of making and releasing a Hollywood film at that time. The reason Hitchcock was such a good director was because he knew how to work within that system. His films are full of implied sex and violence at a time when those were supposedly taboo topics.

Moreover, all major commercial films are products of many different economic, industrial, technical and aesthetic pressures. That's just the nature of the business, because films cost so much to make. It doesn't make sense to me asserting that a major commercial film should simply be the product of an individual person. To me that's autuerism gone overboard.

Sure I would love to see a DVD of this longer version. But to me "Psycho (1960)" will always be the object that was given a PCA seal in 1960, and released to the enjoyment of millions of people.
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post #95 of 256
8/7/08 at 6:45am

Re: Alfred Hitchcock Premiere Collection - Oct 14, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyFeldman
This is silly. I don't want a version of Psycho that is not the release version from the US. That was the film he sent to theaters, that was the film that made him wealthy beyond even his imaginings, and we don't need this other thing IF it even exists. For example, the only version of Topaz that's available on DVD is the preview version - I want the version that was released to theaters - the other is a nice extra.

EDIT: I've now looked at these caps. No one has any idea what this is - but it seems like this extra, what, twenty or thirty seconds of film was an overseas version. Really, twenty seconds (this person puts up a German version of the letter being written and counts that as being longer - utter nonsense). Leave Psycho alone, and if this twenty seconds is so interesting, put them on as an extra - don't muck about with a classic film. I can't believe this person Tim Lucas is actually calling for Universal to change this great film.

It depends on which side of the Atlantic you're sitting. Millions of people in Europe saw the (slightly) longer version which was Hitchcock's desired cut. That's the version which I saw in the cinema and I resent the fact that the cut U.S. version seems to have now become the "official" version. A great many films over the years have been cut in the U.K. due to violence which has been present in the U.S. version but that does not mean that the cut U.K. version should be accepted for all time.
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post #96 of 256
8/7/08 at 7:45am

Re: Alfred Hitchcock Premiere Collection - Oct 14, 2008

Good Lord, there have already been innumerable releases of the American cut. I can't believe people are complaining about the possibility of releasing a *slightly* alternate version that was assembled by Hitchcock. If you're going to triple-dip, you might as well get something for your money.
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post #97 of 256
8/7/08 at 9:52am

Re: Alfred Hitchcock Premiere Collection - Oct 14, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark B
My understanding of Hitchcock is that footage wasn't even SHOT if it wasn't "intended to be there."

He planned out each scene in meticulous detail, to the point that he would stop an actor in mid-sentence because he knew he was going to use a different angle for the rest of the line. However, that doesn't mean that he never dropped individual scenes from a film if he later realized they were unnecessary.

----------------
Now playing: Ultra Vivid Scene - Hail Mary
via FoxyTunes
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post #98 of 256
8/7/08 at 11:09pm

Re: Alfred Hitchcock Premiere Collection - Oct 14, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Howson
The film was made in 1960, censorship - or rather industry self regulation - was part and parcel of making and releasing a Hollywood film at that time. The reason Hitchcock was such a good director was because he knew how to work within that system. His films are full of implied sex and violence at a time when those were supposedly taboo topics.

Moreover, all major commercial films are products of many different economic, industrial, technical and aesthetic pressures. That's just the nature of the business, because films cost so much to make. It doesn't make sense to me asserting that a major commercial film should simply be the product of an individual person. To me that's autuerism gone overboard.

Sure I would love to see a DVD of this longer version. But to me "Psycho (1960)" will always be the object that was given a PCA seal in 1960, and released to the enjoyment of millions of people.

In absolute agreement.
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post #99 of 256
8/7/08 at 11:13pm

Re: Alfred Hitchcock Premiere Collection - Oct 14, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas R
It depends on which side of the Atlantic you're sitting. Millions of people in Europe saw the (slightly) longer version which was Hitchcock's desired cut. That's the version which I saw in the cinema and I resent the fact that the cut U.S. version seems to have now become the "official" version. A great many films over the years have been cut in the U.K. due to violence which has been present in the U.S. version but that does not mean that the cut U.K. version should be accepted for all time.

Please provide a link to this information - I have never read such a thing anywhere and I'd like to see it from the horse's mouth, not somebody making a guess. He was a savvy showman and, you know, this twenty seconds is irrelevant and should be included as an extra or with seamless branching, but do NOT muck about with a classic film. And how about this: Hitchcock was very much alive when censorship changed - he could have put back those seconds if he'd wanted to - he didn't.
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post #100 of 256
8/8/08 at 2:43am

Re: Alfred Hitchcock Premiere Collection - Oct 14, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Caleb
Thanks Kevin,

When you say, appeared on UK video years ago, would that mean the CIC pre cert VHS? I.E. the first video release.

Rgds.

Yes, that's the one. In fact I think it was the very first VHS I purchased and it cost a fortune then!


PSYCHO has been released on DVD in the UK on a couple of occasions - it would be interesting to know which version this is. I only have the R1 edition myself so cannot comment.
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post #101 of 256
8/8/08 at 3:52am

Re: Alfred Hitchcock Premiere Collection - Oct 14, 2008

With all due respect, anyone stating Hitchcock was 'free' to do whatever he wanted to his films is entering rather shaky ground. None of us knew the man personally. And not all film makers are Lucas in their tinkering.

There's also been an update to Tim Lucas' blog under the original Psycho piece I sent to him.

I do not understand anyone taking a dogmatic tone. If those precious 18+seconds are irrelevant, then any potential restoration of said footage will make no difference. End of.

Does anyone have contact details for Universal? we need to alert them to the fact. I want this restored!
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post #102 of 256
8/8/08 at 5:13am

Re: Alfred Hitchcock Premiere Collection - Oct 14, 2008

If the U.S. version was cut and Hitch sent the uncut version everywhere else, then I don't see how it could be argued that the U.S. version is the definitive version. That would indicate that Hitch wanted the extra footage in the film but just couldn't do it for the U.S. market.

There's numerous examples of films that have been cut for U.S. release and finally restored on DVD. I don't see why Psycho would be any different.
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post #103 of 256
8/8/08 at 5:50am

Re: Alfred Hitchcock Premiere Collection - Oct 14, 2008

I'm in total agreement, Jeff. This is a clear-cut case of restoration, not tinkering after the fact. These aren't outtakes retrieved from the cutting room floor but U.S. censor cuts to three of the most contentious sequences in the film.

The footage was still in certain prints in the mid-1960s, as this photo from the Hitchcock/Truffaut interview book shows.
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post #104 of 256
8/8/08 at 6:23am

Re: Alfred Hitchcock Premiere Collection - Oct 14, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Robertson
I'm in total agreement, Jeff. This is a clear-cut case of restoration, not tinkering after the fact. These aren't outtakes retrieved from the cutting room floor but U.S. censor cuts to three of the most contentious sequences in the film.

The footage was still in certain prints in the mid-1960s, as this photo from the Hitchcock/Truffaut interview book shows.

Wholly agree there.
By the way, I just checked my Picador, Film Classics Library photonovel by Richard J Anobile, ISBN 033024213 X. Nothing featured there from the uncensored Euro print.
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post #105 of 256
8/8/08 at 5:01pm

Re: Alfred Hitchcock Premiere Collection - Oct 14, 2008

I am surprised no one has mentioned the 2 cuts, US and UK, of "Strangers On The Train" on DVD. US version cut some of the implied homosexuality of Robert Walker's character.
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post #106 of 256
8/8/08 at 7:45pm

Re: Alfred Hitchcock Premiere Collection - Oct 14, 2008

deleted.
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post #107 of 256
8/8/08 at 8:56pm

Re: Alfred Hitchcock Premiere Collection - Oct 14, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyFeldman
He was a savvy showman and, you know, this twenty seconds is irrelevant and should be included as an extra or with seamless branching, but do NOT muck about with a classic film. .

Does this mean you don't want THE MAGNIFICENT AMBERSON's mocked with since millions of people have seen the cut version?

I'm also rather shocked that this discovery isn't getting more attention. Perhaps others have known about it but I had heard of the cuts but never realized that this longer version was out there.
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post #108 of 256
8/9/08 at 1:59am

Re: Alfred Hitchcock Premiere Collection - Oct 14, 2008

This German site has details and stills of the cut footage.
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post #109 of 256
8/9/08 at 7:00am

Re: Alfred Hitchcock Premiere Collection - Oct 14, 2008

Re Strangers On A Train - we have both cuts on the DVD - and that's what should happen here. Ambersons is, of course, a whole different story, and has nothing to do with eighteen seconds of film.
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post #110 of 256
8/9/08 at 7:27am

Re: Alfred Hitchcock Premiere Collection - Oct 14, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Elliott
Does this mean you don't want THE MAGNIFICENT AMBERSON's mocked with since millions of people have seen the cut version?
That's comparing apples and oranges. Amberson had a whole hour of footage cut out of it not by Welles but by RKO, and the resulting film IS a problem. But Psycho is under half a minute of footage, and the reason why the film works so well is because its so subtle. You're ultimately just putting more blood for the sake of more blood, it doesn't help the film at all.

This is like reverse Star Wars fanboyism here. You guys are all obsessed with throwing a film everyone's been happy with for years under the bus, just for a marginally different cut with a tiny bit more gore. I feel ill.
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post #111 of 256
8/9/08 at 9:02am

Re: Alfred Hitchcock Premiere Collection - Oct 14, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattH.
I don't understand why Universal wouldn't dip its toe into the water with at least one of these classics on Blu-ray?

Because they want to make lots of money! If they sell this DVD boxset, lots of people will buy and then when they release the Blu set in a year or so many of the same people will buy them again.
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post #112 of 256
8/9/08 at 10:25am

Re: Alfred Hitchcock Premiere Collection - Oct 14, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Dalek
But Psycho is under half a minute of footage, and the reason why the film works so well is because its so subtle. You're ultimately just putting more blood for the sake of more blood, it doesn't help the film at all.
Subtle? Really? Do you mean like
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
when Janet Leigh is slashed to bits in the shower, or Martin Balsam is stabbed in the face on-camera?


There's dazzling craftsmanship throughout, but the violent moments are anything but subtle. Hitchcock wanted to present the wildest, grisliest ride yet seen in movies and could get away with it in the shower scene because there was essentially nothing there to cut, which he could prove - not so with a shot of Janet Leigh unhooking her bra, close-ups of blood-covered hands, and extra stabs. I've not yet seen the uncensored version, but I can imagine these extra details providing a much nastier visceral kick during the sequences which they were originally removed from. Anyone who thinks these sorts of grisly details are somehow superfluous in Hitchcock, especially at this late stage of his career, needs to watch The Birds, Torn Curtain and Frenzy again.
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post #113 of 256
8/9/08 at 4:07pm

Re: Alfred Hitchcock Premiere Collection - Oct 14, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Dalek
This is like reverse Star Wars fanboyism here. You guys are all obsessed with throwing a film everyone's been happy with for years under the bus, just for a marginally different cut with a tiny bit more gore. I feel ill.

Sorry but this is the silliest thing I've read in quite a few years. How was anything in this movie subtle? It might be compared to SAW or HOSTEL but when this was released it was all shocking stuff and there weren't any easy routes out with it.

Countless movies have been cut up by the MPAA so if the director's intended version is out there then it should take front and center. This isn't about gorehounds wanting more gore. It's about Hitchcock wanting the stuff in the film and if you've seen his later work then you know he would go all out. TCM shows a two-part interview with him every once in a while and the talk about censorship is brought up. From this interview it's clear that he would have liked to push the envelope in terms of violence, sex, nudity and gore but wasn't able to. PSYCHO was such a film that he had to cut so why not take it back to his original version?
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post #114 of 256
8/9/08 at 6:03pm

Re: Alfred Hitchcock Premiere Collection - Oct 14, 2008

I agree with you Michael. "FRENZY" showed that Hitch had no issues getting graphic, it would be nice to see this alternate cut get a proper release. It's not like we're asking for the well known edited cut be destroyed and never seen again.

this reminds me a lot like what happened with "EYES WIDE SHUT", where Kubrick had an American cut, and a world cut. No one had problems when EYES got a proper release in the region 1, not too sure why it's such a bugaboo with Psycho.
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post #115 of 256
8/9/08 at 8:51pm

Re: Alfred Hitchcock Premiere Collection - Oct 14, 2008

That's a good point with EWS. Heck, even THE SHINING has an alternate, shorter cut that was released pretty much everywhere except here.
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post #116 of 256
8/9/08 at 11:17pm

Re: Alfred Hitchcock Premiere Collection - Oct 14, 2008

n/m
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post #117 of 256
8/10/08 at 5:35am

Re: Alfred Hitchcock Premiere Collection - Oct 14, 2008

Interestingly the version of PSYCHO shown on UK TV last night was the US version with missing shots detailed in this thread.
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post #118 of 256
8/10/08 at 6:49am

Re: Alfred Hitchcock Premiere Collection - Oct 14, 2008

I don't have the Hitchcock/Truffaut interview book in front of me, and I might be mis-remembering, but didn't Hitchcock, on discussing NORTH BY NORTHWEST mention a sequence he shot where Cary Grant somehow ends up in a car assembly line where a car is put together? I seem to remember Hitchcock telling Truffaut he would send him this footage. I wonder if this was a true story, and if the footage exists.
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post #119 of 256
8/10/08 at 9:07am

Re: Alfred Hitchcock Premiere Collection - Oct 14, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Morgan
I don't have the Hitchcock/Truffaut interview book in front of me, and I might be mis-remembering, but didn't Hitchcock, on discussing NORTH BY NORTHWEST mention a sequence he shot where Cary Grant somehow ends up in a car assembly line where a car is put together? I seem to remember Hitchcock telling Truffaut he would send him this footage. I wonder if this was a true story, and if the footage exists.

It wasn't filmed, apparently.

However, Steven Spielberg put that scene in Minority Report, among all the other Hitchcock references in the film.
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post #120 of 256
8/10/08 at 9:46am

Re: Alfred Hitchcock Premiere Collection - Oct 14, 2008

Since MGM is finally releasing this long rumored set, any word yet on either the also anticipated David Lean Collection or the rumored Fox Silent Films or early '30s Collection, speculated to be out for Christmas?
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