*** Official WALL-E Discussion Thread - Page 4

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Yep.

- Walter.

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I think his post is completely about the content of the film, and how, from his perspective, the message of the film is a sucker punch to the audience, many of whom may be unaware (or are ignorning the fact), that they are being sucker punched.

I'm not sure I agree with him, but I don't think his post was intended to be insulting. If anything, he's asking viewers to be aware of what the film is communicating.

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That's not trying to be insulting?

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"And the love story people shy away from that because such an interpretation turns their beautiful little love story into an obvious, preachy, cliche of modern liberal angry politics."

Do you feel the same way about Planet of the Apes or Pans Labyrinth? Are those films preachy? Both use allegory and metaphor to tell stories that are politically inspired. Why does it have to "angry liberal politics" to use something as a backdrop for a story to take place in if its something you care or feel strongly about? As I said if you feel this way, youd have to apply those criticisms to plenty of films, especially inthe scifi genre.


"You've got to be just as malleable and unreflective as the people on Axiom not to see Pixar laughing their asses off at you all as they count the money they've just extracted from your wallets by convincing you sit in theaters, eat a bucket of popcorn, drink a tub of high fructose corn syrup, stare at a screen, and actually think you've been enlightened or moved . . . and then come back here and type out your contradictory opinions on your computer screens while sitting in your chairs."


Yea but I kissed my G/F goodbye and went to gym after I saw Wall-E

Oh yea, I skipped the popcorn and soda too.

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Not if he's right.

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Technology is not some monolithic entity which may be used for only one purpose. There is no contradiction in different applications of technology having different (and perhaps mutually exclusive) effects upon humanity.

- Walter.

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But he's not

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Regarding the much debated subtext of this movie...here's what Stanton says.


Andrew Stanton was in Toronto recently and Peter Howell (TorStar critic) asked him:

Q. Do you really see WALL-E as a love story? The environmental calamity theme is front and centre.

A. Yes, I do see it as a love story, and the environmental theme was an accident. I was just trying to pick a very gettable visual situation to make this the last robot on Earth. Trash just seemed obvious to me, because you didn't have to explain it. You'd get it visually. It allows him to look through the detritus of humanity and be fascinated by it ...

So I had no idea life was going to get (so pro-environment). I mean I recycle, but that's about it! I don't have a message or political slant. If I could be that prescient that early on about other things, I'm sure I'd be really rich.

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Being right about the movie or being right about the idiocy of the viewers? The derision is about his tone with regards to the audience...not the film.

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Both? Cause if he's right about the film, then a lot of us are being played for fools (myself included).

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Pixar’s film is causing a debate? Interesting. I thought that these type of films are there to give 100% "positive vibes"..

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Well, then he is wrong about the film, because he is wrong about the audience being played for fools. People are putting too much emphasis on this film having an environmental message.

The main character is an isolated, lonely, trash compacting robot. How does the director reinforce that reality visually? A way to do it is to put the character in a situation that telegraphs the desperate condition he is in. The best way to do that is to show him alone on a deserted planet filled with endless amounts of trash for him to compact. It is strong imagery that reinforces the miserable existence the main character is living before the object of his infatuation shows up. IMO, it is as simple as that.

I don't believe it was Stanton and crew's intent to make a polemical film about mass consumerism and the enviromental degradation of the planet.
The main focus is about a character who will do anything to stay with the girl he loves, including abandoning a job he has done for 700 years and risking his own destruction. It is about a mechanical "man" who learns what "living a life" is really all about.

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When I watched Wall-E, I went in with no expectations (hard to do with a Pixar film). I loved it. I saw Kung Fu Panda, entertaining, but what I'm noticing with Pixar movies, namely Wall-E, is that they feel more "epic" in nature than earlier efforts. My gal says epic = boring, but I disagree.

Pixar is evolving, but perhaps not in the way a lot of us have grown accustomed to.

As a side note, watching Wall-E felt like watching a mash-up of Hello Dolly and Idiocracy. The themes are so similar. Consumerism, trash piling up, stupidity (humans), distant future, corporation running the government.

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But they did, and maybe that's the problem? Instead of a intentionally subtle and complex message movie, they unintentionally created a clunkily preachy movie. And that's a chunk of what detracts from Wall*E for me: the secondary themes are hammer-to-the-head overt, but feel -- not crude in absolute terms, but far below what Pixar does when at the top of their game.

As for credits, it's like we're in a mini credits renaissance. Kung Fu Panda had the best credits I've seen in a while. And Wall-E also used its credits as a fun, creative epilogue.

As for the VHS tape: it's a better prop and story teling device. Note the scene where Eve began unspooling it. This was key to their early relationship. She was oblivious to his sentiments and in one move nearly destroyed the most valuable possession. With a DVD, there's no equivalent physical damage that plays as well. Nor an appropriate repair. VHS is arguably anachronistic in Wall-E, but it makes sense.

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I guess it all depends on your own state of mind. If you are reluctant to accept the premise that mass consumerism and overpopulation can be damaging to the planet, the people and its resources, you will think the movie is "clunkily preachy." If on the other hand, you think these are already serious problems that need to be addressed, the movie is a fairly subtle sci-fi extrapolation on where we're headed.

I thought Wall-E was outstanding, and I found the message to be subtle and secondary to the movie's main plot, which was a love story. I'm frankly quite amazed that it has generated the kind of reaction it has among people loudly complaining that it is "preachy." I ask, was Planet of the Apes "preachy"? Because I see little difference between the two and the way their (different) messages were delivered. I should also add that I find nothing wrong with a movie having a point of view. I'd prefer if more of them did.

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The way I see it as well.

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In my case, I don't consider the film preachy, but I also don't think it is deserving of the massive praise it has received. AFAIAC, Ratatouille and The Incredibles are better films than Wall-E. I'm still undecided as to whether it is even better than Finding Nemo; although, I'm leaning toward Finding Nemo as the better film.

On a purely visual basis Wall-E would be ranked at or near the top of my list. Storywise, it is well down my list of favorite Pixars. That could change with repeated viewings, however.

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WOW! Talk about a serious generalization and false statement to back up your own personal bias. I am definitely not one of those "reluctant to accept the premise that mass consumerism and overpopulation can be damaging to the planet" nor am I the opposite preaching population control and let's get rid of all the cars. Now I may simply be more sensitive to it because I have realized how much wasteful stuff I have bought in the past and the "bigger is better" mentality all around and am trying to be careful about my purchases.

The SUV craze is too easy to pick on so here is something more subtle to see if you have noticed. Have you tried to buy a gas grill lately? Most of the ones sold can cook enough for 20+ people at a time but normally it only needs to be big enough for <= 4 people. How much propane has been wasted heating up some montrous grill just for a few burgers and hotdogs.

I have to hand it to Pixar. From this thread they seemed to have realized just how much constant visual reminders have to be shown and still not considered "too much". From the movie we have:
1. Two people talking to each other over the HUD and are right next to each other. Got it, people are oblivious to things around them and direct human contact just like people on cell phones today.
2. Woman: "I didn't know we had a pool!" : Okay, still got it.
3. Man: "I didn't know we had a pool!" : Alright, I figured it out that NO ONE knows they have a pool the first time thank you very much.

Did you also notice that the people weren't coming and going to the entertainment deck but rather "THE ECONOMY"? That one was at least a bit subtle.

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Nice post, Sam Favate.

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The man saying it was a just a punch line. It was a counter-point to the woman saying it. Her saying it was to connect the dots on missing the forest for the trees. His was just for a laugh.

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Don't bother, I've tried.

Director's intent only matters when dealing with OAR and black bars on sites like this and AVS, everything else is out the window (well, except grain, which is a big director's intent hot topic on AVS right now). Funny how some will preach director's intent when it supports there arguments but, when it doesn't, that intent doesn't matter and is down right wrong sometimes.

Oh well, let them argue over this love story while missing the true beautiful message of this wonderful film.

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Not a great film by a long shot. The middle act is way too puny/clunky on scriptwriting level. It's basically Wall E chasing Eve or vice-versa (with the half assed context of Stanton's take on a dystopian/Eco movie of the 70s. Not inspired at all.). As good as the visuals are, it wears out the viewer with it's repetitive and cliche manner.

The first 40 minutes play like a great tone poem/mini-movie. Almost a Fantasia segment - but sound fx substituting in for classical music.

Look, I enjoyed it. But the only way to percieve it as some kind of masterpiece is to compare it "Robots".

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The Wall E/Eve flying moment was ace though.

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"But the only way to percieve it as some kind of masterpiece is to compare it "Robots".

Or The Matrix.

Which is a film I think is stupid and I despise and loathe.


Point being......To each their own, you know.

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Just for the record, I saw the movie in a theatre. Where else am I going to see it? I didn't eat any popcorn, drank some water, and liked the movie. I can't control how Disney markets this movie. I bet Pixar can't either. Disney is going to make a shitload of toys and useless pieces of plastic regardless of what the movie is a about. Its out of my hands.

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Opinions are everyone's. And, we're all entitled to our own. But, whether or not a film becomes a 'classic' is beyond your opinion or mine.

THE MATRIX is a classic. You may not like it. You may be disgusted it is considered a classic. But, classics are made by the consensus and the consensus overruled your opinion here. It is a definitive genre classic, and that is that.

Will WALL-E be a classic? I don't think so. I thought it was good, not great. You seem to think it will. Time will tell. I think it will almost certainly win the best animated oscar. I'll talk to you in 9 or 10 years and see if anyone still remembers it or talks about it.

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This is the most condescending, elitist, overtly political gross generalization I have ever read on this board that hasn't (to my knowledge) been reprimanded, removed, or locked the thread.

I have no idea how it remains on this thread. I find it utterly and completely offensive.

For the record, my state of mind is one of a general movie-goer. Any supposition beyond that, and particularly this one, ventures into the realm of disallowed politico-speak not allowed here.

I didn't find the movie preachy, but I often found it to be clunky. Does that make me a moderate, Sam?

I implore the mods to remove this post. If it's not removed, I have half a mind to post my own thinly disguised political insults.

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For the record, my comment was not directed at anyone in particular. Very sorry if you found it offensive; wasn't intended as such, nor was it intended as a thinly veiled political insult.

That said, I stand by what I said. Some people don't like any sort of messages in their entertainment - nothing wrong with that. I guess we wouldn't find The Twilight Zone in their DVD collections. Or maybe they just didn't think Wall-E was handled well in terms of integrating the message and the movie; that's their right. However, a good many people did like the movie, message and all.

Lastly, I fail to see how what I wrote was half as insulting as the bit about Pixar laughing at the audience who bought tickets to see themselves made fun of. Beyond what I wrote here, I will not be addressing this again, or apologizing further.

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What is actually wrong with what was said? There is nothing political about it. The comment is about viewing the film from polar opposites. It says nothing about people who choose to look at this film from a centrist position. The whole statement is qualified by the first line which states,"I guess it all depends on your own state of mind".

If one's state of mind does not encompass the extreme ends of the spectrum represented by the second line then how can the statement be offensive or political?

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Let's go back to discussing the film, and not each other.