*** Official WALL-E Discussion Thread - Page 3

Re: *** Official WALL-E Discussion Thread

"I like how Pixar is starting to make a lot of their scenes look like they were shot with an actual camera, with shifting focus points, shaky cameras, etc, rather than the perfectly smooth look you see in computer animated films from other producers."


One shot that really stood out for me was the shopping cart scene. This can be seen at the end of the full trailer. The lighting, the zoom in on Wall*E and his movements, EVE passing by out of focus.... I was really in awe of it.

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Buy N Large brands direction North
"By associating a direction with our trusted value brand, BnL will now usher in a new era of directional marketing...Now we can assure our customers that by taking a northerly direction they can expect the values and services that only BnL can provide."

Re: *** Official WALL-E Discussion Thread

i think that the other ships are still out there, but that the Flagship, being the Axiom, is in charge of the "EVE" robots and the Earth mission. In other words, if they go back and find that Earth is good to return, then they will send word to the other ships.
That was my impression at least.

I really loved this movie though, saw it twice! The one issue I have is that the second time I saw it was on a digital projector, and it was a mess! I am not sure if it was the screen or the optics or what... but there were large bands, almost like dirt or support beams sticking out from behind the screen, across the entire image through the whole film. I am just glad that it was my second time and not my first. That would have ruined it for me.

What an AWESOME movie, can't wait to get it on Blu-ray

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Just wanted to chime in on the discussion on the film's themes. Though the subtext and setting of the film represent a criticism of commercialism, and waste they don't seem to be the dominant theme to me. The theme seems to be, "Wake up! Break out of your lock step routine and begin living!" WallE escapes his repetitive rut by finding love. EVE discards her obsession to follow her directive for the love of WallE. The Axiom's captain does it using the computer to discover and wonder at the Earth left behind. The couple on the Lido deck get jostled out of their cyber world and begin experiencing life first person (looking out the view port, playing in the pool, talking and touching hands) The repair ward robots become heroes by discarding their original jobs and running free. The villain of the piece, the Axiom computer resists change, wants to maintain the status quo.

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Just to throw some wood on the fire. When the robots on the Axiom are taking EVE to the bridge, there is a shot of WALL*E hovering over EVE exactly like a man escorting his pregnant wife into the delivery room. Her name is EVE. The plant is in her belly. They chase after it like parents for much of the film. There is quite a bit of imagery related to expectant parents. It's all visual, but it's there. And it's there from the moment EVE takes the plant into her belly. Didn't notice that on the first viewing.

And the two humans: John and Mary

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WALL-E is kicking my ass. I got the soundtrack today and my movie cash or whatever it's called for another viewing. I'm trying to remain calm but my love for this movie is getting a little out of control.

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I saw this again.

I went planning to see Hulk, but at the last minute decided to see this instead.

Enjoyed it even more the second time.

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I feel the message this movie propels is about technology and how reclusive we're becoming when our music gizmos, mobile phones, gaming consoles, and computers are begging for our attention more than a simple conversation with a person around you or a stranger at your local convenient store.

Can you 'really' see a beautiful baby through a 50" Hi-Def display? Or, better yet, can you touch and feel it?

Visualizing and experiencing are two different things...the big point that this movie seems to convey is after Wall-E starts 'waking up' people. People have become so disconnected from society is the message I see.

The mass consumerism is just a satire played for laughs and to create a backdrop to fuel the love-story. The enviro-friendly theme is there but takes a backseat.

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Review/comments:

Magnificent. Pixar hits another out of the ballpark and Andrew Stanton and crew deserve a Best Picture nod. The film is just mesmorizing and you can't wait to see what adventure WallE stumbles onto next. While much has been made of the eco-future/consumerism subtext and such I just found it part of progressing the story and didn't get hung up on it. Yes there are a few great messages to be found about humanity's consumerism and the social disconnects of our current/future world but the main driver is the love story. And boy it is heartfelt and tugs at the soul. They say you can't put love into words...but with an amazing story, a few beeps and some incredible animations Pixar succeeded mightily well without them.

btw my kids all liked it but this film is more adult oriented vs Monsters/Nemo/Incredibles. I don't see it quite as marketable or memorable to the happy meal age group but glad Pixar stuck to their creative guns and it deserves all the accolades it gets. '2001' quesioned our origins/future. 'Blade Runner' asked us if androids dream. And now 'Wall-E' postulates the question of love. I have no problem seeing those scifi classics side-by-side.

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I disagree with this. As I said in my review, I think the film is very much telling 2 stories: one about two robots falling in love, and the other about humans turning their back on consumerism and falling back in love with the earth. I think this is proven by the last 2 shots of the film (with romantic music accompanying): Wall-E and Eve and then the earth itself.

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I thought this was a pretty amazing film. I can't begin to imagine how much Chaplin and Keaton these guys watched before making this. The first half is an amazing achievement - a modern-day silent film, in animation, that held the rapt attention of myself as well as my 7 and 5 year-olds the entire time. Beautiful work.

That said, the second half of this film has two MAJOR problems for me:

1) For a film that succeeds as, essentially, a silent film for the first half why does there have to be so much verbal exposition in the second half? There is simply too much talking in the second half. And, a lot of the information they get out with the exposition has already been made pretty clear...so, it is exposition for the 'cheap seats'. Too bad for such a smart film to fall to that.

2) The second half of this film cheats like crazy. Rules are broken, forgotten, and discarded with nary a thought. It is utterly annoying.

First, the captain can't seem to read the cover of his "Operation: Repopulation" manual. Why not? The babies are being taught to read, there are signs everywhere, and he can clearly read the rest of the manual. Whoops.

Speaking of Operation:Repopulation...this is a plan to return to Earth and repopulate once life was once again able to thrive there. So, why cancel the plan because life has become too toxic? Isn't that the very reason for the plan? It's totally contradictive.

And, if you DID cancel the plan (for no good reason) then why would you send probes out at all? Just don't build or send them. It's over. No plan. Done.

And, if you did bother sending out probes, why does Autopilot bother telling the captain at all? Why not just destroy the plant and be done with it? In fact, if you have a robot on the transport ship STEALING the plant out of EVE's guts, why not destroy it then? Because...no story. That's just bad writing.

Speaking of the probes, why so many? Earth isn't THAT big. And, why retrieve negative probes at all? If they don't find anything...let them keep looking.

I dunno...it just bugs me that such a well thought out, wonderfully detailed film would suddenly get a case of the stupids. It's still a good film, but those faults keep it from being classic.

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Ignoring all my thoughts on the messages, I don't understand the "best movie" acclaim for Wall-E. It was a cute and interesting movie with some remarkable elements. But I thought it was Pixar's weakest movie yet And as a "best picture", I'd expect far stronger storytelling. Quentin gets it:

I'd even rate Kung Fu Panda above Wall-E for Best Animated Feature, as it's more fun, start to stop.

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But Wall-E reaches for something far grander than just another typical animated movie. And it reaches it. Kung Fu Panda is a fun, good movie.. Wall-E is a great, dare I say CLASSIC movie.

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That's what I don't get. I don't see how it achieves its reach -- not in a "best movie" sense.

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It's just not your thing.. that's cool. It's just the way many people feel about it. I'm sure you have some "best movies" that other people don't get either.

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Best film of 2008 so far. I don't anticipate any other movie topping it. I was never a big fan of Finding Nemo -- The Incredibles was my favorite Pixar film before this one -- but Stanton got me hook line and sinker here.What I loved was the way the end credits were employed. The movie ended where it was supposed to, with WALL-E and EVE united at last. It was their story, so that's where it had to end. But being humans ourselves, the movie knew we'd want to know what happened to our successors. Watching each successive generation of humans rely less and less on technology and get skinnier and taller again until that last shot of the normal shaped boy fishing on the green debris free earth was one of the most moving sequences I've ever seen. I can't imagine not watching the credits of WALL-E on future viewings.The last shot of a human in the film, the painting of the normal shaped boy fishing, is a black kid. There were also other races scattered throughout the crowd scenes.I think it's more powerful than most dystopic visions because it factors in the very human ability to adapt and change. This was best captured in the captain, a fat slob with a third-grade reading level, whose curiosity is awakened for the first time by the disruption of EVE and WALL-E.One of my favorite scenes in The Last Mimzy was a shot of the boy protagonist on a city bus and every single person is plugged into an iPod, a video game, or a Blackberry. A congregation of people and nobody sees one another. I consciously avoid that temptation and still feel like I spend my days going from incadescent-lit room to flourescent-lit room and back. I look at the kids who still bike and watch to the ice cream stand in my town, and they're never obese even the chunky kids who obviously have the genetic disposition for it.I would argue that it's not even corporate dominance. I would argue that it's an indictment of our coddled, liability-prone culture. The movie's about doing for yourself again, taking risks and making the wild leaps. The captain said it all when he said, "I don't want to subsist[sic?] I want to live!" We take all the danger out of life, and nobody gets hurt but nobody learns anything either.Considering that the current generation of babies were all created and grown in a test tube, my guess is that they took DNA samples of all the plants and animals for repopulation at some future date. Then again, seeing as how Buy 'N Large hardly seems like the most forward looking company, it wouldn't surprise me if they let them all die, either.I think they didn't try to resettle because it simply would have taken too much effort. They had an automated plan in place for restoring Earth. Terraforming and settling another planet would have actually required ingenuity and effort. Remember, this is a civilization that hasn't invented anything new for approximately 700 years.My guess is that only the richest got a golden parachute out of earth's mess. The rest of the population was left behind to starve or die of old age.I would argue that the movie does say that Buy 'N Large specifically is bad, but mainly because people like Fred Willard's character run it. It's a satire of the mega-stores, so it's going to be a bit vicious. I like to think of Willard's attitude as being a more G-rated slam at Eisner's tenure atop Disney: patronize and aim for the lowest common denominator.I agree. The environment is a mess because of the mindset of the culture presented. The quality of earth is a direct reflection of humanity's investment in itself. The earth that WALL-E travels through is the vision of humanity at rock bottom. Earth is restored because the humans invest in the elbow grease to bring it back from the brink. They had become so disconnected from the place they were living that they allowed it to become unlivable. I'd like to think that if we ever hit critical mass, public opinion would push back. The culture here had essentially forfetted its right to public opinion.I agree. It's the scene in the flower shop at the end of City Lights in reverse. WALL-E was blind. But with that intimate touch, he could see again.
As for a non-thematic answer, it's possible that the circuit board was WALL-E's memory. He operated for the first minute or so on the default instructions preloaded into memory. Once those cycles had run through, he tapped back into his main system and was loaded with a fresh set of instructions from the OS that had become idiosycratic over the centuries.I think the movie is about one story: connection. WALL-E and even are one example, John and Mary are another, and humanity and earth on a macro level is another. A physical touch jumpstarted each:
WALL-E and Eve's paws, John and Mary's fingers, and the captain's handful of earth from WALL-E's shell.I saw the movie at 7:40 at night in an 4k digital theater. Not only was the picture quality unlike anything I've ever seen, but the scores of children in the theater were quiet with the exception of a few enthusiastic outbursts the whole way through. Having watched a good deal of silent film over the course of the spring, I was stunned to see how many of those old beats and conventions could still be so effective today. WALL-E was very Chaplin-esque, but the dark humor and "stunt work" was straight out of l'oeuvre keatonnienne.He can read it, but read it poorly. Everyone seems to have a roughly third-grade reading level. Enough to manipulate their technological babysitters, but no more. Between first being handed the manual and actually using the manual at the climax, he'd spent countless hours learning about earth. One of the things he probably learned about was books.It got too behind schedule for Buy 'N Large's instant gratification mentality. Fred Willard's CEO couldn't conceive past five years, much less 700 years in the future. Things were also probably far worse when the gas mask footage was shot. The world may still be a shit heap in WALL-E's time, but it had come back from the bring enough to again sustain life.The cancellation was an override order. There was no one will sufficient ingenuity to change anything else but the return order. The probes were a carefully designed exercise in futility.Why destroy the plant if it's not in conflict with A113? He only sought to destroy the plant once it became a threat. Previously, AUTO had throught he'd nuetralized the problem by stealing the plant. AUTO might be dangerous, but he is first and foremost a caretaker, after all. Killing wouldn't be his first instinct.Earth actually is that big. 316,958,741 square miles. That's alot of ground to cover for such a little probe. And perhaps the negative probes need to be cleaned or recharged periodically.

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I am in complete agreement, Adam. The credits really bring closure to the story. In addition to your comments, I would also observe that one of the biggest changes depicted in the credits is the transformation from dependancy (aboard the Axiom) to symbiosis (during the scenes depicting the reclamation of the Earth) between mankind and the robots.

I also loved the tree roots being sourced by the shoe in the final graphic.

Viewed the second time this weekend with a friend, and it really held up for me. Right at the top of my films for 2008.

- Walter.

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I have a little problem with people calling the first part of the movie a silent film because, even though there is little to no dialog, there is nothing silent about it. It keeps people engaged because of the wonderful use of sound design. There is sound every where in the beginning of the film. Wall-E himself is hardly silent for long, he's always making noises and beeps plus there are the Hello, Dolly clips (not to mention the score). Modern day silent film this is not IMO.

If any film qualifies as a modern day silent film it would be Cast Away. There is less going on sound wise for most of the film (no spaceships landing and taking off, etc.) and it also has no score for a good portion.

I don't think general audiences would sit through a silent film, or even mostly silent film these days (especially young kids). Calling Wall-E a silent film is doing a disservice to the great sound design of the film. It's the sounds in the beginning (with the visuals) that keeps everyone so engaged IMO.




Speaking of the Hello, Dolly VHS... I wonder why they chose VHS instead of DVD, which would connect better with today's audiences (I bet some young kids these days have never seen a VHS tape).

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I took the VHS nod as a reference to our throw away society once again. A new technology came in (DVD) and we're quick to trash the old one.

Great film.

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Kachi , I totally agree with you on this. Yes to others who say the love story was one of top points but what is love ...interaction between two or more people or robots. What I saw besides the the overly obvious points about the consumer and enviro-friendly messages was a warning message about becoming a watcher and not a doer.

Everyone of those people had screens in front of their faces while the real world passed by. What they were looking at was the future version of the internet...nothing more, nothing less.

The movie was just as much a warning to us to get off our butts and go get a life. Our children are the first since birth all internet kids and frankly it's looking not so pretty. I can remember playing baseball down the street with the neighborhood kids...now they get on the internet or text about doing it instead...or doing anything. Hell we can't even land a man on the moon anymore. Society is treading water in many ways...well except for advances in weapons, we always seem to be good at that. All those fat people let the cyber world carry them along until it got to the point where they didn't know any better. A pool that no one even realizes is there? To me that was the scairest message in the movie..that we just stop doing.

Anyways, great movie.

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Given the look of his hand, I believe they chose to use a VHS tape rather than a DVD because it would be easier for the character to manipulate, therefore making the whole sequence easier and cheaper to animate.

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The diversity of opinions on this movie is amusing. On the one hand, we have people defending it for two completely different reasons: A) it's a love story set on this backdrop of a dystopian subtext (that we should ignore in favor of the love story), or B) it's a message movie that sharply, accurately criticizes modern human (mostly Western) society.

And then on the other hand we have people reacting against the flood of praise, who in turn inspire the above divisions--based on which interpretation they think is easier to defend. It's obvious that people like this movie, but they certainly can't form a consensus why. I'm not sure if that's evidence of the movie's lack of focus and poor execution, or if it's evidence of the movies breadth and scope. But it's sure interesting watching the camps form.

I think the "love story people" fall into that camp because they are relatively smart and recognize that, technically speaking, this movie IS preachy. It's hard to defend against that charge. The guy here who chastised anyone who might have missed the Walmart analogy certainly got the "message," and he's indignant about anyone else not getting it. How can this message simultaneously be a mere subtext or setting for the love story, and yet a source of disdain for anyone missing it? Clearly, certain types of people LOVE the preachiness because it matches their own world view. And the love story people shy away from that because such an interpretation turns their beautiful little love story into an obvious, preachy, cliche of modern liberal angry politics. They don't want their cute little movie ruined with the connotations which arise from such dogmatic, emphatic human-bashing extremism. That's not very conducive to love.

On the other hand, those people who are stressing how important this message is because of its message don't have much to say about the love story, because cute little robots who fall in love aren't very conducive to an anti-technological, anti-consumerism message--given that robots are inherently technological and the idea of technology saving humanity from its own technological future is inherently contradictory. How can you preach a message of technology robbing us of our connection to each other and our environment, but then have the solution to this problem be a rag-tag band of misfit robots???

I think the problem is that this movie is a jumbled mess of contradictory cliches. It has just enough cliches that just about anyone can latch onto those cliches which fit their own personal values and worldview . . . if they shut off their brain and ignore all the contradictions.

I agree completely with those here who are arguing that the movie is very preachy, not very original, not very romantic, inexplicable with regards to the main source of conflict (the repopulation/AI switcheroo), treats its audience like idiots, and then contradicts its main message by making millions of dollars having us sit in chairs and stare at a screen. This movie must be praised for the sheer ballsy ploy of tricking millions of viewers into thinking that they aren't being made fun of while watching it, and for tricking them into thinking that robots are romantic. How can anyone come away from this movie thinking that two animated robots--pieces of code in a computer--can simultaneously teach us that technology robs us of our humanity and that we need to reconnect to each other??? You've got to be just as malleable and unreflective as the people on Axiom not to see Pixar laughing their asses off at you all as they count the money they've just extracted from your wallets by convincing you sit in theaters, eat a bucket of popcorn, drink a tub of high fructose corn syrup, stare at a screen, and actually think you've been enlightened or moved . . . and then come back here and type out your contradictory opinions on your computer screens while sitting in your chairs. God, that's hilarious. I sincerely wish I'd come up with that scam. Great job Pixar! Oh yes, it's ironic. But it's not ironic in the artistic sense. It's ironic in the sense of: you've been had by your own "cleverness" (or lack thereof). That's the only thing truly great about this mediocre film.

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Re: the use of VHS. The tape is pre-positioned at the critical sequence; although I have to ask - does WALL-E every rewind the tape, except when EVE unwinds part of the spool?

By the way, I sure wish folks could talk about the film and their own reactions and not worry about other individual's reactions. Personally I find post #82 to be condescending in the worst possible way.

- Walter.

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Not hugged enough as a child were you

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Name one film that isn't an exercise by some studio to get people to pay to sit in front of a screen and drink high fructose corn syrup beverages and eat popcorn. If Pixar is laughing at their audience then every other studio is doubled over and laughing too, since they are in exactly the same business as Pixar is.

Do you think something like There Will Be Blood was made because the studio wanted to enlighten the film going public with a drama of monumental proportions? It was made for the very same motivations that you subscribe to Pixar: to sell tickets, soda, popcorn, and chocolate bars.

If people are moved or enlightened by a film then it is by their own volition or involvement in the story being told. To studios and theaters, films are nothing more than the means to generate profits from selling admissions and junk food.

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This post made me enjoy the movie even more.

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Let's just say that the movie certainly put my mother in law, my wife and my 6 year old daughter to sleep. My son and myself were the only ones that stayed up and watched the movie. That being said, I enjoyed Pixar's ability, by far one of their best created animated movie, but the story line left me hanging. Even with the catch about the computer and it's control was an interesting twist, but still lacking. I think Pixar has a golden opportunity to really make a serious action movie.

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Oh my gosh, you're right. Manipulated by a movie...who would have thunk it The movie is different things to different people...some just prefer to come away with a positive vibe more then a cynical one. It makes life a lot less of a bummer...try it

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I don't think Nathan should be summarily dismissed. I do think it is easy to gloss over the eco-subtext of this film in order to focus on the love story. That's fine, since it's a cute, well executed love story. But the subtext can't be ignored, and certainly wasn't put in there at random.

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Except his post doesn't seem to be so much about the content of the film. It seems to be more about how people discussing this film are a bunch of fools that have had the wool pulled over their eyes by Pixar.