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post #91 of 235
7/20/08 at 12:00pm

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric Easton
I remember being very excited and nervous about the new Next Generation. Would it be any good? Would Star Trek without Kirk and crew suck? Would it even be Star Trek? I had been a Star Trek fan since the early seventies and knew many of the episodes by heart. I used to actually record the audio from them onto cassette. Surprisingly, many of them made fine radio dramas!
Ric,

I had similar sentiments during that Fall of 1987. (The only difference is that I became a fan of Star Trek in 1967.) And although I never recorded the audio onto a cassette, I did play the themes on the keyboard beginning at a very early age.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric Easton
Anyway, besides having a few Trek adventures on the big screen, it was great knowing that we were about to get new stories on a weekly basis for however long it would last. Who knew? Maybe it would only go for one season... or even less! I made sure, I was recording them again for posterity. This time on videotape.
I recall waiting for several years for anything -- perhaps a film, perhaps another series -- after the 1969 cancellation. I too recorded all of the episodes onto VHS tape. I eventually gave them away, but only after TNG was released on VHS tape in prerecorded form. I have never given those away, and I never will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric Easton
My roommate at the time was also a big Trek fan, so there we sat watching the two hour pilot unfold. For the most part, we were pretty happy with it. Although, at first I couldn't resist mentally super-imposing my beloved characters over Picard, Data and so on. Thinking... is this how Kirk and Spock would handle it? It probably didn't help things that Q seemed to be at least inspired by Trelane. As the season unfolded, I got much more comfortable with this new ship and crew. Sure, that first season had plenty of rough spots. I think Wesley wore out his welcome with us pretty fast. He was making the adults look like morons.
I was pleased with it, with one exception -- I didn't really like how the aliens at Farpoint Station looked; I thought those could have been done much better. But that's a very small gripe on my part. I was uncertain about Q (whether I liked him or not). I had to let that digest for a time. (BTW, you're right -- that was a very, very long summer indeed!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric Easton
When I recorded "Best of Both Worlds" I edited it into a (mostly) seamless 92 minute (without commercials) movie. When Riker ordered "Fire!" at the end of part one, instead of going to black and saying "To be continued..." it went directly to the next shot in part two, as the music swelled up (from part one) and the main deflector dish was powering up and fired... It all worked really well. I cut out the main title sequence from part two. The only caveat was that after the open was done, I had to leave part two's story credits up, because they were going over the actual episode. Anyway, no one could ever tell where part one ended and the teaser from part two began.
And that music was comprised in part of what some refer to as the most dissonant of intervals, the tritone. And it was hammered and hammered in the viewers' ears as Riker began to say those famous words. Part 1 of that two-parter still remains for me the only perfect episode of TNG.
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post #92 of 235
7/20/08 at 12:51pm

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

I bet many of us taped Trek onto audio cassettes. I have said before that classic Trek IS a radio drama. You almost always know whats going on, even if you never saw it. Many of the episodes i didnt see when i was a kid. I got hooked on Trek when i was about 9, in 1971. But it went off before i had seen them all. So an aunt in CA taped them for me, and sent them in the mail for birthdays, and Christmas, and so on. I heard many more than i saw, at that time.

Time sure does fly! Now its been over 20 years since TNG started! I also would video tape those, without commercials, of course!
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post #93 of 235
7/20/08 at 1:57pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Great last couple of posts guys! Nice story Ric about taping TNG at the TV station!

I videotaped TNG, DS9 and Voyager and even Enterprise as well, though I didn't bother to stop at commerical breaks.

Regarding audio recordings, I think you probably read my older posts that I did that myself during the early to mid 70's. And today, I rip the audio and have them in my iPod! Makes for great listening in the car.
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post #94 of 235
7/20/08 at 6:29pm

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Quote:
Regarding audio recordings, I think you probably read my older posts that I did that myself during the early to mid 70's.

Yes, I think I remember several of us owning up to that one before... and me being surprised that others were doing it! Great idea, ripping them for the iPod! Wish I still had my audio recordings!!

Quote:
And that music was comprised in part of what some refer to as the most dissonant of intervals, the tritone. And it was hammered and hammered in the viewers' ears as Riker began to say those famous words.

And for his trouble, composer Ron Jones got the shaft shortly thereafter. A real shame since he had such memorable scores. The Borg one being the ultimate stand-out.
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post #95 of 235
7/20/08 at 9:12pm

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric Easton
And for his trouble, composer Ron Jones got the shaft shortly thereafter. A real shame since he had such memorable scores. The Borg one being the ultimate stand-out.
Ric,

Yes, definitely one of the stand-outs. BTW, there was a thread (maybe it was this one earlier on?) in which a few posters were posting a lot of useful information on the shafting of Ron Jones.

Speaking of audio recordings of episodes--

Does anyone here listen to any of the Trek episodes, films, or novels on cassette? I have a couple from four or five of the series. Some of my favorites are Envoy, Relics, and The 34th Rule; I also like the ones with Sulu doing much of the narration (the Captain Sulu adventures).
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post #96 of 235
7/21/08 at 11:49am

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Scott,

I've listened to several of the novel adaptations, Best Destiny, Dark Mirror, Probe and Sarek to name a few. My problem is that they are always abridged to about 3 hours. I'd like to hear the whole story. I also listened to one or two of the Sulu adventures (which I believe were audio originals).

I've always been a fan of the audio format. I download unabridged books to my iPod via Audible.com and listen to them on the way to work and on my bike. They are life-savers on long trips. And they are fairly inexpensive thru audible's various plans.

I've also loved radio dramas. The BBC's Lord of the Rings, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and NPR's Star Wars were all exceptional. I wish they would make more. I've also listened to some of the Big Finish Doctor Who Adventures.

I remember thinking during that long period between the TOS series and the movies that it wouldn't cost anything to make radio dramas and give us new stories. When I was a kid, I used to take the music and sound effects from those old Trek audio recordings and make my own Star Trek radio dramas... with me as Captain Kirk, of course.

How's that for nerdy?

I now return you the the Next Generation appreciation thread....
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post #97 of 235
7/22/08 at 6:18am

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric Easton
Scott,

I've listened to several of the novel adaptations, Best Destiny, Dark Mirror, Probe and Sarek to name a few. My problem is that they are always abridged to about 3 hours. I'd like to hear the whole story. I also listened to one or two of the Sulu adventures (which I believe were audio originals).
Ric,

I own a couple of those. I'm glad I'm not alone in that regard! And yes, the Captain Sulu adventures are originals. They're a lot of fun to listen to, especially when I am driving to and from work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric Easton
I've always been a fan of the audio format. I download unabridged books to my iPod via Audible.com and listen to them on the way to work and on my bike. They are life-savers on long trips. And they are fairly inexpensive thru audible's various plans.
I too am a fan of this format. There is something very engaging (more intimate?) about the audio format. I believe that there is something different (although I'm not sure exactly what this 'different' entails) left to the imagination when listening as opposed to viewing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric Easton
I've also loved radio dramas. The BBC's Lord of the Rings, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and NPR's Star Wars were all exceptional. I wish they would make more. I've also listened to some of the Big Finish Doctor Who Adventures.
I own Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy as well; I also own The Nitpicker's Guide in audio format.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric Easton
I remember thinking during that long period between the TOS series and the movies that it wouldn't cost anything to make radio dramas and give us new stories. When I was a kid, I used to take the music and sound effects from those old Trek audio recordings and make my own Star Trek radio dramas... with me as Captain Kirk, of course.
My oldest daughter takes some of the audio tracks from Dark Shadows and then writes scripts for them, to create her own segments from that show. I think it's quite creative, but I'm biased.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric Easton
How's that for nerdy?
To quote Galt, "Admirable Chekov. Admirable."
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post #98 of 235
7/22/08 at 9:36am

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Going off track on the audio book front. I highly recommend Stephen King's reading for Bag of Bones. He really brings the story to life. One of my favs.

Sorry for the diverge.

I refuse to listen to abridged versions of any book.
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post #99 of 235
7/22/08 at 9:48am

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou Sytsma
Going off track on the audio book front. I highly recommend Stephen King's reading for Bag of Bones. He really brings the story to life. One of my favs.
Lou,

Thanks for the recommendation. My eldest son (he is sixteen) is currently reading Pet Semetary. He loves the work of King; over the past month, he has read three or four books of his. Of course, he prefers Rex Bachmann.

Incidentally (and keeping it somewhat on track ), I own the audio version of Relics, a novel by Michael Jan Friedman, and read by James Doohan. I will need to listen to this again soon now! In fact, that's on my menu for tomorrow morning as a result of the recent posts in this thread.
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post #100 of 235
7/23/08 at 5:07am

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

It dawned on me last night as I was watching Babylon 5 that one of the refreshing things about TNG was that, unlike other modern-day science fiction shows like DS9, B5 or even Battlestar, it wasn't about war. Sure, war is great for conflict and drama, and we've seen the brink of war many times in TNG (and TOS), and I would even say it was refreshing at the time that DS9 commited to doing a full-scale war, but now, with three major shows concentrating on battles and enemies, etc., it sure would be nice to revisit the exploration Gene Roddenberry envisioned.
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post #101 of 235
7/23/08 at 10:26am

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Ockeghem wrote (post #99):
Quote:
My eldest son (he is sixteen) is currently reading Pet Semetary. He loves the work of King; over the past month, he has read three or four books of his. Of course, he prefers Rex Bachmann.

[Ahem!] Does he now??? [Hmmmm]
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post #102 of 235
7/23/08 at 11:39am
Thread Starter 

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

I've never gotten into any of the audiobooks or have read any of the recent novels. The discussion did remind me of the old Star Trek stories that James Blish wrote as adaptations of the actual TOS scripts. I have the paperbacks Volumes 1 through 11. Anyone remember those? I also found the Star Trek Logs 1 and 2 and 10 in my bookcase that were adaptations of the Animated series. This could be a whole new thread.

But we're getting a little off topic! I've been trying to find time to write some thoughts of where I left off on TNG.

I'm stil trying to figure out what the last post is about regarding Scott's son's favorite author.
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post #103 of 235
7/23/08 at 1:03pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

A few thoughts on the fifth Season and favorite episodes; it really felt like a continuation of the fourth, but at a slightly higher level at times.

Darmok is where we see Star Trek for the first time deal with language and communication with an alien race. It’s been done before in earlier shows, like the Dixon Hill episode, but this one was much smarter and you get the fullness of character of captain Dathon.

Ensign Ro was cool because they add a new character who does what Ron Moore always wanted to do and make a character not as perfect as the crew of the Enterprise. She added conflict. And her intro here was nicely done as she’s used by a bad Starfleet Admiral for political ends.

Silicon Avatar was interesting to see the Crystalline Entity come back. We meet the Doctor whose son was killed by it out for revenge here. What was interesting was how she goes from a cold person who hates Data, to embracing him as her surrogate son as her son’s thoughts are in Data.

Disaster was a fun diversion, Poseidon Adventure in space. I liked the scene where Keiko gives birth and Worf does not understand why it’s not going by the book. It also gives Troi a chance to command with Ro on her back.

The Game was really well done and a nice show for Wesley’s return. Too bad Robin Lefler wasn’t used again.

New Ground addresses Worf’s son and it was nice to see him return an have it totally disrupt his routine. Yet in the end, he embraces him.

Reunification is of course a major event in this season. Part One was both fun and sad to see Sarek go. Fun to see Data and Picard in Romulan make-up while the Klingon commander of the cloaked ship they use to go to Romulus to find Spock, has fun taunting them, Part Two was terrific to see Spock in action again and foil Sela. That was a really clever way to bring her back. Data’s line to Sela, “Perhaps you could find another job” was a hoot! And this was probably a better way to hand Trek off to TNG then Generations was. Also cool how they tie this episode into Star Trek 6 with the Cowboy Diplomacy line.

Ethics was better then I remembered it with the Doctor on board who has controversial medical ideas that she eventually uses to repair Worf’s broken back. Interesting to see both Crusher’s and Riker’s dealing with the moral dilemmas.

I have not seen the Masterpiece Society in a long time. It was interesting from the point of view of the random nature of life verses controlled genetics where the natural course of life allows the unexpected. The blind Geodi whose technology that allows them to see was the foundation of the technology that eventually saves the planet the perfect humans live on. Of course, in the end, the visit of the Enterprise contaminates the society and some wish to leave and learn of other ways.

Conundrum and Powerplay were both fun episodes where we see the crew behave badly or are taken over. Conundrum was fun, but a sort of weaker version of The Game.

The Outcast I recall was a terrific study of relationships and they finally address the gay issue.

Cause and Effect was a fun idea and one wonders if they could have really sent themselves a message from the other timelines so they could break the pattern.

The First Duty was cool to see Starfleet Academy with Wesley involved in some bad antics and a young Nick Locarno before he joined Voyager as the similarly disgraced Tom Paris. I mistakenly mentioned that we didn’t see Boothby till Voyager, but I forgot, we see him here!

I thought the Perfect Mate was a really cool concept and was well acted here as the “Mate” imprints herself to Picard, but follows duty and marries the intended leader as a peace offering. But I we learn he has no interest in her, ironic ending.

I thought I Borg was pretty good. But I can see now that it looks like the beginnings of the de-clawing of the once mighty Borg.

The Next Phase was one of my favorites as we see Ro and Geordi trying to figure out why they can’t be seen by the crew and find they are cloaked. I liked the little joke that Ro will never learn how Riker feels about her.

Finally we get to The Inner Light. I deliberately avoid watching this, like I try to avoid too many viewings of The City on the Edge of Forever. I really enjoyed watching it again. It was really a well written, acted and realized episode. The flute certainly made it real for Picard in the end and continued to alter his life with music.

Time’s Arrow was a terrific story. I really enjoyed how they use the time travel idea and involve Samuel Clemens and Jack London. The idea of finding Data’s head in the future and using it to reattach to Data later was one of those fun time loop ideas that would certainly mess with your brain.

I think the series peaked here. I’ve already started to watch Season 6 and it has a lot of favorite episodes, but they seems to deal more with the characters and less with what is Star Trek. What do you guys think?
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post #104 of 235
7/23/08 at 1:08pm

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Bachmann
Ockeghem wrote (post #99):



[Ahem!] Does he now??? [Hmmmm]
Correct. Some have opined that he is quite prolific.
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post #105 of 235
7/23/08 at 1:11pm

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
I've never gotten into any of the audiobooks or have read any of the recent novels. The discussion did remind me of the old Star Trek stories that James Blish wrote as adaptations of the actual TOS scripts. I have the paperbacks Volumes 1 through 11. Anyone remember those? I also found the Star Trek Logs 1 and 2 and 10 in my bookcase that were adaptations of the Animated series. This could be a whole new thread.
Nelson,

Yep, I own a couple of the Blish novels. Those were the days, eh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
I'm stil trying to figure out what the last post is about regarding Scott's son's favorite author.
Nelson,

It is Stephen King. The way I wrote the Bachmann post was joke, hence the ''. Richard Bachman was a pseudonym of King's at one time.
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post #106 of 235
7/23/08 at 2:43pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Ah! I'm not up on King. That was very humorous.
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post #107 of 235
7/23/08 at 3:58pm

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
I think the series peaked here. I’ve already started to watch Season 6 and it has a lot of favorite episodes, but they seems to deal more with the characters and less with what is Star Trek. What do you guys think?

Nelson:

I've *always* stated that Seasons Three, Four, and Five of TNG were the apex of "anthology-based" Star Trek.

There were some great episodes in the last two years of TNG ("Relics" in S6 is one of my favs) but the overall quality didn't seem to be quite as consistent as in the prior three seasons.
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post #108 of 235
7/23/08 at 7:21pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

I agree Joseph, it's been a long time since I've watched th series in chronological order and it seems to make that more apparent.

A lot of good shows still in S6 and 7, Chain of Command for one.
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post #109 of 235
7/23/08 at 7:43pm

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
I agree Joseph, it's been a long time since I've watched th series in chronological order and it seems to make that more apparent.

A lot of good shows still in S6 and 7, Chain of Command for one.
Nelson,

There is much to respond to in your post above (on the fifth season). I will write more on that later. Your thoughts on each episode are intriguing.
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post #110 of 235
7/23/08 at 8:14pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Really Scott, my thoughts were intriguing? I look forward to your comments!
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post #111 of 235
7/24/08 at 12:06am

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
The First Duty was cool to see Starfleet Academy with Wesley involved in some bad antics and a young Nick Locarno before he joined Voyager as the similarly disgraced Tom Paris. I mistakenly mentioned that we didn’t see Boothby till Voyager, but I forgot, we see him here!

As I understood it, the plan was indeed for Tom Paris to be Nick Locarno, which would have been a nice continuation, but there were rights issues; I believe it meant that the writer of The First Duty might have been entitled to additional royalties out of the whole of Voyager for creating the Locarno character. So they renamed him, but cast the very same actor in the role.

I've never quite understood how that works, especially for something like Trek where the overall rights are owned by Paramount and the Roddenberry estate (I assume). After all, in contrast with Star Wars, IIRC some Expanded Universe writer first coined the name "Coruscant" for the capital planet of the Old Republic-turned-Empire, which Lucas later adopted and used in the PT. No problems there AFAIK.
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post #112 of 235
7/24/08 at 6:08am

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
I've never gotten into any of the audiobooks or have read any of the recent novels. The discussion did remind me of the old Star Trek stories that James Blish wrote as adaptations of the actual TOS scripts. I have the paperbacks Volumes 1 through 11. Anyone remember those? I also found the Star Trek Logs 1 and 2 and 10 in my bookcase that were adaptations of the Animated series. This could be a whole new thread.

Ah yes Nelson. I have all the Blish books plus his original novel - Spock Must Die! too.
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post #113 of 235
7/24/08 at 6:16am

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou Sytsma
Ah yes Nelson. I have all the Blish books plus his original novel - Spock Must Die! too.

Ditto. I have them in a 4 volume hardback/book-club edition. I also have a few volumes of the animated series, in paperback. My vol.1 of the animated series is signed by Alan Dean Foster too! I bet i have had these for 35 years now. The last Trek book i ever read, and it was a great read, is Prime Directive. That was a great Trek book.
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post #114 of 235
7/24/08 at 7:39am

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yee-Ming
As I understood it, the plan was indeed for Tom Paris to be Nick Locarno, which would have been a nice continuation, but there were rights issues; I believe it meant that the writer of The First Duty might have been entitled to additional royalties out of the whole of Voyager for creating the Locarno character. So they renamed him, but cast the very same actor in the role.

I've never quite understood how that works, especially for something like Trek where the overall rights are owned by Paramount and the Roddenberry estate (I assume). After all, in contrast with Star Wars, IIRC some Expanded Universe writer first coined the name "Coruscant" for the capital planet of the Old Republic-turned-Empire, which Lucas later adopted and used in the PT. No problems there AFAIK.
Yee-Ming,

That is how I understood it as well. And in VOY, they even teased us a bit, saying (paraphrased) that Tom had an 'incident' which was not positive. And when some of the VOY crew found out about it, they gave him the cold shoulder (most except for Harry Kim). I like how they dovetailed that incident into the new series, even if they couldn't use what occurred in The First Duty (or Nick Locarno's name) verbatim.

I loved that episode, BTW. I usually watch Lower Decks in tandem with it. RIP Sito Jaxa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
Really Scott, my thoughts were intriguing? I look forward to your comments!
Nelson,

Well, okay. Maybe 'compelling' would have been a better word.
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post #115 of 235
7/24/08 at 9:05am

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Nelson,

I thought you wrote some wonderful insights there. I will comment on a few of the episodes you mentioned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
Darmok is where we see Star Trek for the first time deal with language and communication with an alien race. It’s been done before in earlier shows, like the Dixon Hill episode, but this one was much smarter and you get the fullness of character of captain Dathon.
This one is often named as a fan favorite. I'm glad they did this at least once. I don't know if I would have liked a bunch of episodes in the same vein, but this one was certainly well done. It took me a couple of times before I caught on to the metaphors and/or allegory. We almost didn't need the 'bear' (monster) in this one, as I think it could have worked relatively well without it. But I suppose some sort of 'protagonist,' if you will, was required.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
Ensign Ro was cool because they add a new character who does what Ron Moore always wanted to do and make a character not as perfect as the crew of the Enterprise. She added conflict. And her intro here was nicely done as she’s used by a bad Starfleet Admiral for political ends.
I really liked Michelle Forbes in this role. And to think, she could have been Major Kira! When she finally left the series, it was our loss.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
Silicon Avatar was interesting to see the Crystalline Entity come back. We meet the Doctor whose son was killed by it out for revenge here. What was interesting was how she goes from a cold person who hates Data, to embracing him as her surrogate son as her son’s thoughts are in Data.
The episode is a bit sad near the beginning, and would have been a bit more wrenching had we had some backstory between Riker and his female friend. I liked the idea that Data had the Doctor's son's thoughts; it was a bit odd to hear him speak in the son's voice, but the mother certainly appreciated it. She was, as you say, cold in the beginning. She was downright dangerous near the end, however. She put her emotions (somewhat understandably) above her scientific inquiry, and it cost her just about everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
Disaster was a fun diversion, Poseidon Adventure in space. I liked the scene where Keiko gives birth and Worf does not understand why it’s not going by the book. It also gives Troi a chance to command with Ro on her back.
"You cannot!" I have said those words around our house on a number of occasions, and my wife and children know who it is I am echoing when I say it. I thought the kids did a fine job in their roles, too. One becomes much less shy after the ordeal; the conclusion is a nice touch with Marissa and Riker responding 'Yes' to Picard's "Number one?" The tension between Ensign Ro and Troi (and O'Brien's defense of the latter) was a nice touch. Ro was wrong, and she apologized for it. And Troi, to her credit, did eventually stick to her guns regarding her decision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
The Game was really well done and a nice show for Wesley’s return. Too bad Robin Lefler wasn’t used again.
Yeah, play the game or else! It was a chilling episode in parts (could have turned into a 'cult'-like offering), but it was also a pleasant diversion. It probably didn't satisfy all of the Wesley bashers, but since I'm not among them, I found his performance to be fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
New Ground addresses Worf’s son and it was nice to see him return an have it totally disrupt his routine. Yet in the end, he embraces him.
A touching episode. I like all of the Alexander episodes. My personal favorite is A Fistful of Datas. And The Cost of Living (with the veiled remarks of Majel Roddenberry) is excellent. And LOL in that one when Alexander says, "The higher, the fewer." Only the Traveler would have understood such a line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
Reunification is of course a major event in this season. Part One was both fun and sad to see Sarek go. Fun to see Data and Picard in Romulan make-up while the Klingon commander of the cloaked ship they use to go to Romulus to find Spock, has fun taunting them, Part Two was terrific to see Spock in action again and foil Sela. That was a really clever way to bring her back. Data’s line to Sela, “Perhaps you could find another job” was a hoot! And this was probably a better way to hand Trek off to TNG then Generations was. Also cool how they tie this episode into Star Trek 6 with the Cowboy Diplomacy line.
While watching this one, I frequently contemplate how Picard 'knew' (or had met) Kirk, Spock, Bones, Scotty, Sarek, Sisko, and Janeway. I don't know how many Captains can make that claim. And it is IMO always good to see Spock in any iteration of Trek.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
Conundrum and Powerplay were both fun episodes where we see the crew behave badly or are taken over. Conundrum was fun, but a sort of weaker version of The Game.
I commented on Conundrum before; I wish that MacDuff had not appeared so quickly in the episode. I thought it was a bit too obvious. But I loved the premise of the episode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
The First Duty was cool to see Starfleet Academy with Wesley involved in some bad antics and a young Nick Locarno before he joined Voyager as the similarly disgraced Tom Paris. I mistakenly mentioned that we didn’t see Boothby till Voyager, but I forgot, we see him here!
The First Duty (and later, Lower Decks) are wonderful episodes with a lot to offer the viewer. I thought Ray Walston was a nice addition to the episode, and I also love Shannon Fill in her role as Sito. I wish that they had followed up on her in (perhaps) an episode of DS9. I think it could have worked somehow, especially given the Cardassian involvement in that series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
I thought I Borg was pretty good. But I can see now that it looks like the beginnings of the de-clawing of the once mighty Borg.
Hugh was initially not among my favorites; having had dinner with him on occasion has changed my mind a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
The Next Phase was one of my favorites as we see Ro and Geordi trying to figure out why they can’t be seen by the crew and find they are cloaked. I liked the little joke that Ro will never learn how Riker feels about her.
This was a fun episode. Who doesn't like the near-final scene in Ten-Forward, when they finally materialize in front of the crew?
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post #116 of 235
7/24/08 at 9:09am
Thread Starter 

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

One of the things about the Blish books that I totally forgot about is the cool original cover paintings. Those are very retro classic sci-fi painting styles used. Like the the greenish colored one with 3 people materializing on the planet and the Enterprise is seen in obit in the sky above them. And there's a Reddish colored cover too that feels very 1950's, but is so cool for Trek imagery! Yes, Spock Must Die is in the collection too plus a bunch of other pre 1980 novels I forgot about!

Hmm, I didn't know the story about the Locarno and Tom Paris name change to avoid the copyright issues. I knew they said they wanted to use the same character, but that part I didn't know.
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post #117 of 235
7/24/08 at 9:39am
Thread Starter 

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Some interesting points Scott.

Regarding the Spock/Picard mindmeld, I never thought about the likely hood that from that experience, Picard would know Kirk, McCoy and the rest of the TOS crew, as well as everyother person Spock and Sarek knew. That would have been interesting to explore.

I skipped watching The Cost of Living episode. I'll give it a spin, sounds lke something there I missed.

Regarding Michelle Forbes, that's right, she was asked to be part of DS9, but her part became Major Kira since she declined. I can see her not wanting to be in a full time gig, but she could have been a great addition and made getting into DS9 a lot easier since there were so many new faces on that show. On the other hand, it worked out. I can't see Ro falling for Odo though. And I wonder if it would have impacted her later being in Galactica. Probably not.

Regarding Disaster, I was reading the comments by the writers in the TNG Companion and they felt they should not have had Ro apologize to Troi, as it sort of weakened her character.

I agree with your point about Silican Avatar, it would have been interesting to learn more about Riker's new girlfriend so her death would have had more impact.

And regarding Darmok, I can see they felt the episode needed a monster as a ticking clock device to help them move the story along. But I found it more effective in the quiet moments.

Seeing Spock participating in a very good Trek story is a good thing, I agree!
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post #118 of 235
7/24/08 at 10:37am

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
I skipped watching The Cost of Living episode. I'll give it a spin, sounds lke something there I missed.
Nelson,

Just a quick point. It's speculation on my part, but listening to Luwaxana when she is talking to Alexander, I get the distinct impression that her (Majel's) relationship with Gene, and his having recently passed away, is being referenced at that point (discussing life, and of being alone). The episode means all the more to me because of my interpretation of her words at that point.
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post #119 of 235
7/24/08 at 11:32am

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
Some interesting points Scott.

Regarding the Spock/Picard mindmeld, I never thought about the likely hood that from that experience, Picard would know Kirk, McCoy and the rest of the TOS crew, as well as everyother person Spock and Sarek knew. That would have been interesting to explore.
Something I wished they would have explored. Especially in Generations when Picard and Kirk meet. It was an awesome opportunity for Picard to use some insight garnered through the mind meld to prompt Kirk into helping out.
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post #120 of 235
7/24/08 at 1:30pm

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Nelson Au wrote (post #103):

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A few thoughts on the fifth Season and favorite episodes; it really felt like a continuation of the fourth, but at a slightly higher level at times. . . .

I think the series peaked here. I've already started to watch Season 6 and it has a lot of favorite episodes, but they seems to deal more with the characters and less with what is Star Trek. What do you guys think?

Actually, I believe it peaked in its 4th season (my personal favorite). But it is clear to me that seasons 3, 4, and 5 together form the apex of the seven-year series, which is appropriate (if not most desirable) because these are the seasons right in the middle.

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Darmok is where we see Star Trek for the first time deal with language and communication with an alien race. It's been done before in earlier shows, like the Dixon Hill episode, but this one was much smarter and you get the fullness of character of captain Dathon.

Good dramatic story, good monster, totally faulty premise¹, ². Written, if I recall correctly, by Joe Menosky, later to become one of the ST: Voyager regular writing-staffers. He specialized in anthropology-themed, cultural-confrontational stories (including the much maligned "Masks").


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The Game was really well done and a nice show for Wesley's return. Too bad Robin Lefler wasn't used again.

The actress, Ashley Judd, went on to a movie career just after this was done. Since Lefler was primarily present to be a coëval cohort of Wesley, who himself was no longer a regular, there wasn't much need of her.

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Reunification is of course a major event in this season.

Except that the title of the episode is "Unification".

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Conundrum and Powerplay were both fun episodes where we see the crew behave badly or are taken over. Conundrum was fun, but a sort of weaker version of The Game.

"Powerplay" is, again, a near "creep-classic", but is also an example where "scientific rationalism" may actually hurt the story.

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The Outcast I recall was a terrific study of relationships and they finally address the gay issue.

And the conclusion is: "Hurray for 'normalcy'!"

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Cause and Effect was a fun idea . . . .

"Cause and Effect"---that's [ahem!] a Brannon Braga baby---more than any "fun idea", is (action-oriented) "sci-fi"-tv at its finest. It's "creepy". It's intelligent. It features specific regular characters in a genuine sf-context. It's excellently and interestingly directed by Jonathan Frakes. This is what sf-tv ought to be like at least 50% of the time: (scientific-)theme- and subject-oriented. (I'd be "in heaven", if I could get this even 1/3 of the time.)


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. . . . one wonders if they could have really sent themselves a message from the other timelines so they could break the pattern.

Use of "mnemonic feedback" in a "temporal loop" to break the cycle seems plausible enough, if you keep in mind all instantiations of repeated events involve near-identical selves, presumably occupying the same or microclose-approximate space in each occurrence, which should facilitate the capability of leaving some kind of electrical impulse, such as a planted thought, in the same space for the next instantiation of the self to intercept. This doesn't strike me as particularly farfetched at all. As with so-called "directed dreaming", you, the sender, transmit an electric impulse to yourself (or, as in this case, to the next instantiation of yourself), the receiver, who will shortly come along to occupy the same space and, in high probability, to encounter and receive the transmission. Done recursively, it finally gets through.

That has become a sort of standard "solution" in what has become a stock "sci-fi" plot (e.g., in the similarly themed X-Files episode, "Monday", the Stargate SG-1 story, "Window of Opportunity", etc.)

(I could never stay awake during the recursive story of Groundhog Day (1993), so I don't know how that story is resolved.)


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I thought the Perfect Mate was a really cool concept and was well acted here as the "Mate" imprints herself to Picard, but follows duty and marries the intended leader as a peace offering. But I we learn he has no interest in her, ironic ending.

A thematic rehash of "Elaan of Troyus".

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I thought I Borg was pretty good. But I can see now that it looks like the beginnings of the de-clawing of the once mighty Borg.

"I was a Teenage(d) Borg."

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The Next Phase was one of my favorites . . .

"Bad ol' Braga" strikes again.


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. . . we see Ro and Geordi trying to figure out why they can't be seen by the crew and find they are cloaked.

Despite some glaring holes in the science, a very enjoyable episode. Mr. Braga would return to this theme a few times too many for my taste, however, both in ST:TNG and in series that followed.


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Time's Arrow was a terrific story. I really enjoyed how they use the time travel idea and involve Samuel Clemens and Jack London. The idea of finding Data's head in the future and using it to reattach to Data later was one of those fun time loop ideas that would certainly mess with your brain.


Part I promises much as science fiction: the vista of an alien culture situated in a nonwelcoming asynchronous environment where humans are the "invisible invaders", but part II utterly fails to deliver. It just lapses back into that same old same-old (SoSo) tired lazy writers' gimmick: "Oh, let's go back to Earth in (American) history and have some fun meeting a bunch of whacky famous-named characters (Jack London, Samuel Clemens, ad nauseum) in comforting, familiarly dull surroundings.

One might also mention episode #122, "Imaginary Friend", for its weird space effects and some creepy moments in anticipation of "when the others come". It, however, "whimps out", as well. [sigh] Too bad.
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