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post #61 of 235

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

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Can you imagine if he didn't return to the show? What a disappointment the second half would have been.

He could always regenerate.

Ro was a great character.
post #62 of 235

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

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Originally Posted by Ockeghem
We watched Conundrum last night. It remains one of my favorites. In fact, that entire disc is quite good (Ethics, Power Play, etc.).

I loved it when they realized who they were, and Worf had to 'step down,' so to speak. My only gripe (and it's a small one) is I believe they made McDuff way too conspicuous. I would have loved, for example, not to have had him appear on the Bridge right after the probe. It would have been great (IMO) to have him walk on the Bridge sometime after that (maybe even a minute or two later).

There were some funny moments in the episode that I never tire of, such as Data as a bartender, or the pseudo-jealous attitude of Ro toward Troi, or Worf when he tells Riker to 'proceed.'

Oh yea, that is a good episode. What season was that Scott?
post #63 of 235
Thread Starter 

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Conundrum is in the 5th Season. I just literally saw it a few minutes ago during Lunch. I agree it's a really good episode. I felt it was an alternate version of the story idea for The Game that came earlier in the season. Though I liked that their own natural intuition saved them from the situation rather then an external force.

You guys are ahead of me, I better put some words down the fourth season, which I recently completed re-viewing. Then I can keep up with Scott!

Though I am halfway through the 5th season I skipped Unification till I have time to sit through parts 1 and 2 both at once.

Really hard to believe the 5th season was made way back in 1991! Seems like yesterday. And I had Nemesis on the homeoffice TV yesterday whilst doing some work on the computer. Such a shock to see how the cast look from the 5th season to Nemesis!
post #64 of 235

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickER
Oh yea, that is a good episode. What season was that Scott?
Rick,

Yep, Nelson answered that one (season five). I think it's the fourth disc. Whenever I put that disc on, I have a hard time choosing which episode to watch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
You guys are ahead of me, I better put some words down the fourth season, which I recently completed re-viewing. Then I can keep up with Scott!
I'm kind of skipping around. I like how you didn't restrict the thread to any one season, but worded it the way you did so that we could all add whatever thoughts we had regarding any episode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
Though I am halfway through the 5th season I skipped Unification till I have time to sit through parts 1 and 2 both at once.
Funny, we watched some of Diagnosis: Murder tonight, and decided to skip a two-parter for the same reason.
post #65 of 235
Thread Starter 

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

A few quick thoughts about the fourth season.

The Star Trek The Next Generation Companion notes that the fourth seaaon focused on two things, family and the return of old characters. That sure was true!

The season premiere of course completes the story and cliff hanger of The Best of Both Worlds. I have to agree with an earlier comment, it was well done, but didn't grab you like part 1 did. I remember watching it then and wasn't as on the edge of my seat. Over repeat viewings, I've grown to really like it as a whole piece. A lot of good lines n there, "I like my species the way it is!" and "Sleep, Data" Cool way to defeat the Borg, essentially putting the computer to sleep. Oh, I forgot, as a Macintosh user, it means something, but to Windows, it's 'Stand by' I believe.

The next six episodes were really well done, in Family, we learn about Picard's family, brother and nephew and the wine. And his brother's rivalry is nicely settled and also an added scene where Picard gets to vent out his frustration at not being able to fight the Borg after being assimilated. Great casting in that one. Worf's parents were finally revealed here, as comic relief in part and to serve to show his odd mixture of cultures! Edit, I neglected to add a thought about Picard's nephew, Rene. I liked the chemistry when he's with Picard and talking about the stars and adventures in space. Such a contrast with his father who'd rather not see him go off as Jean Luc had. As noted below, by Sam, it was a shame to see him and his father die in Generations.

Brothers is a pretty cool tour de force for Spiner to play 3 characters. He's really good here as Dr. Soong. It had a sweetness to it too.

Remember Me was a bit convoluted and I thought it had been by Brannon Braga, but it's not! It brings back the Traveler to save Dr. Crusher from the bubble world she was accidentally sent too by Wesley. It gave Gates a chance to really hold the show on her own.

Legacy was ambitious, a story about Tasha's sister. The problem for me was that I wasn't sure it was really her sister. The betrayal at the end was heartbreaking if Data had a heart. This episode was a milestone too, it marked a point where it exceeded Star Trek TOS as it is the 80th episode filmed.

I really liked Reunion a lot. K'mpec asks Picard to meet and to find his murderer who poisoned him. K'Ehlyers come back to help Picard with a little surprise for Worf, Alexander. They dance around the subject of whether he is Worf's son or not and Worf is too subborn to ask. K'mpec dies and Gowron and Duras fight for the right to be the new leader of the Klingon Empire as Picard seeks to find person who murdered K'mpec. K'Ehlyer pushes too hard to find the truth about Worf's discommondation, she is also murdered and it's such a strong scene I think as Worf finds her. It's such a shame they decided to kill her. Could she have become a semi regular? The resolution of Worf's secret past is resolved later.

Future Imperfect is also a favorite. It was a really cool show that looks at an alternate future for Riker and the Enterprise as he awakes years later to learn he lost his memories and is the Captain of the Enterpeise with a son. However Riker figures out it's all trick as he sees the mother of his son is Minuet, a Holodeck creation. Nice return for Carolyn McCormick. Of course he's tricked again to think it's a Romulan trick, but then learns it's really a lonely Alien child looking for company. Really well done I think!

Final Mission, another really strong show where Wesley is about to leave for Starfleet Academy and Picard selfishly asks him to join on one last mission together to mediate a dispute with miners. But the shuttlecraft they travel in is a rustbucket from one of the miner's captained by amorally questionable Dirgo. He's played by Space: 1999's Nick Tate. Nice to see him on Trek! Well acted episode as they fight to survive after crash landing on a small planetoid. Picard is injured and Wesley figures out wy to get water from a fountain that has a force field that kills Dirgo. Nice acting here and it shows such admiration and affection Picard has for Wesley. We learn of Boothby here, who we don't see till Voyager visits a fake Starfleet Academy. But that's for another thread. It was probably Wil Weaton's best episode and his last as he leaves the show to pursue other projects.

Data's Day is a favorite too as we see a day in the life of Data. We are first introduced to Keiko, Miles' new bride to be, who Data has to try to help get them married when Keiko has cold feet. The best scene in this episode for me is the Dancing Doctor sequence. What a great bit of acting. The look on Spiner's face is priceless when Beverly tells him to smile as they dance. I have a good laugh everytime as he looks so silly!

The Wounded is one I had not seen in a long time and I forgot about it and it's a really good one. We meet Cardassians for the first time. We meet a rogue Captain Maxwell who turns out to be right that the Cardassians are illegally massing weapons that could threaten the peace between the Federation and Cardassian Empire. Picard helps the Cardassians hunt down Maxwell, Captain of the Pheonix and O'Brian's former C.O.. An exciting chase insues as Picard gos put of his way to show the Cardassians he means business the Federation will do what it takes to stop Maxwell from destroying more Cardassian ships. It is revealed that O'Brian is also wounded by the earlier skirmishes between the Cardassians and Federation citizens as he has to kill a Cardassian in a firefight to save Federation lives. He lives with what appears to be some prejudices to Cardassians. O'Brian get's a chance to sing an old song with Maxwell to get him to surrender. I like how it ends by Picard showing the Cardassian captain he helps to catch Maxwell that Picard knows the truth and he'll be watching.

Devil's Due was okay. But Clues was a really cool idea. It is revealed that Data is hiding the truth of why the Enterprise lost 24 hours and as a mystery, the crew does what it can to figure out the cause. And it all points to Data. But turns out the Enterprise accidentally discover a hidden planet whose inhabitants will do anything to stay hidden, including destroying the Enterprise. Picard order's Data to hide all evidence and never reveal the incident. Really well done show and resolution!

Gosh, more cool episodes follow! First Contact is a really well done show, about a first contact mission with the Malcorians whose about to embark into space, yet many extremely conservative citizens cannot embrace such advances in science. Riker is hurt while disguised as a Malcorian and is discovered to be an alien. He's held captive. Picard meet a sympatheic scientist, Mirasta who helps with first contact with the leader of the Malcorians, Durken. Riker is close to death as he tries to escape and is beaten up through fear and ignorance by his alien hands and toes. Eventually they decide it's too early for first contact and decide to leave the Malcorians alone at the request of the leader. Mirasta, in a touching ending requests and is granted an opportunity to leave with the Enterprise and explore space. A fun little sequence to poke fun at the tablods, Bebe Nuewith has a small part as a women who will help Riker escape the hospital if he agrees to her desire to have sex with an alien. A terrifically comical moment! And one of many cross overs between Star Trek The Next Gen and Frasier.

Galaxy's Child is another one of my favorite's where Geordi finally meets the real Dr. Leah Brahms whom he sort of falls for a holodeck version of her last year's in Booby Trap. They discover an alien creature that lives in space and inadvertantly kills it. What a great idea, a living space creature. It turns out to be pregnant and Dr. Crusher uses the ship's phasers to help the baby get out. The baby them imprints on the Enterprise as it's mother. Meanwhile Dr. Brahms turns out to be not very nice to Geordi who is trying hard to be nice and maybe get a date with her. Poor Geordi as he learns she is married and then she discovers the holodeck program and is angry by his apparent interlude with a virtual Dr. Brahms. In the end, they work together very well and resolve the problem of the alien baby who is stuck on the ships dorsal section and sucking the energy of the Enterprise. Another nice and sweet ending, the baby goes off to join a group of it's life form before they attack the Enterprise and Dr. Brahms and Geordi are friends and acknowledge they could be good together.

Identity Crisis was pretty good. But the Nth Degree was another cool sci fi idea. Barclay gets an episode and his withdrawn and awkward nature is overcome after encountering a shock from an alein probe that disables a Starfleet antenna array. His personality and intellegence grows, he makes a pass at Deanna, he learns to act in a play so well he makes Dr. Crusher weak in the knees and then takes over the Enterprise via an interface he builds in the holodeck. The cool revelation is that Barclay was used to alter the Enterprise so it can travel to another section of the Galaxy to meet another Alien race who don't actually travel, they bring back other species to them to make first contact. Barclay goes back to his old self, but just a tad better and the Federation meets a new race and brings back knowledge they learn from them.

"I am not a Merry Man!" This is a really fun episode where Q puts Picard in Robin Hood's shoes, and the crew are his merry men. But first Vash comes back to meet Picard. She learns that he tells no one of Picard and Vash's adventures on Rhisa, to her dissatisfaction. This seeming odd behavior of Picard not showing his feelings for Vash intrigue's Q and he decides to force Picard to admit he likes her by making her Maid Marian in the clutches of the evil Sir Guy so Picard has to either save her, or let her die. In th eend, he saves her and Vash's doubledealing really intrigues Q, so he invites her to go with him after Vash says good bye to Picard.

The Drumhead was a heavy serious episode and extremely well done and acted concerning an investigation on the Enterprise of an explosion by a retired Admiral Satie, played by Jean Simmons. The investigation of an accidental dillitium chamber explosion on the Enterprise reveals a visiting Klingon officer is smuggling plans to the Romulans. But Admiral Satie's quest for justice takes her investigation past this to places that makes Picard very uncomfortable, likening it to a witch hunt where she tries to implicate a crew member who has Romulan blood from one of his relatives and then implies Picard is dirty because he was assimilated by the Borg. Admiral Satie losses credibility to another Fleet Admiral and the trial ends as a warning that this should never happen again.

The Host marks the first time we meet the Trill race. I forgot the main issue they so well bring to light is what happens if a person you meet and become close to is not the external shell, but the being that's inside that joins with the body and becomes that being. Dr. Crusher falls in love with the Trill, but she learns after he is injured that he is really the parasite inside. The parasite must be saved and Riker volunteers to host the parasite, Odan. The ensuring situation puts Crusher in an awkward spot, Riker takes on Odan's personality and wants to make love to Beverly, who cannot acept this at first. She can't deal with it! Later, a new host arrives so that they can transfer Odan into the host. It is revealed to be a woman, and Beverly just can't get past the external, and has to end the affair.

The Mind's Eye was a terrific homage to The Manchurain Candidate, and adds more insight that the mysterious Klingon/Romulan conspiracy to bring down the Federation. In theory is an interesting look at what would happen if Data tried to fall in love. I already wrote about these two in an earleir post, so I'll stop here.

Finally, the season ends with Redemption Part 1. Worf and Kurn fight to help Gowron retain his leadeship as the Duras sisters appear with a claim that Duras had a son and rightful heir to lead the Empire. With the secret help of the Romulans, they conspire to help the Duras take over the Empire. Picard will not get involved as it's an internal affair. He comes at Gowron's request though to finish the ritual of naming Gowron as the new Leader of the Empire after deciding that the Duras sister's claim is invalid. It is revealed in the end that Sela is pulling the strings, Tash'a daughter.

In Part 2, the fifth season opener, Worf quits Starfleet to help in the civil war that now threatens to tear the Empire apart. Picard suspects Romulan involvement and hatches a plan to help without getting invloved in the internal affairs of the Empire. He set's up a blockade of ships to trap any clocked ships. Data is given command of one of the ships. This ia an interesting B story here. The first officer of the ship Data commands won't accept an android as a captain and questions and resists orders. Data proves he's a competant captain by the end and earns the respect of his first officer after he comes to the conclusion that the Romulans are trying to take advantage of an opening and cross the blockade where Data's ship is. He violates Picard's order to move to another sector and reveals the Romulans. Sela's plan is foiled. What is odd to me here is how Spiner was acting with such emotion as he raises his voice to order his first officer to follow his instructions.

Phew, that was a lot of babbling. But the fourth season really had a lot of gems. I pointed out episodes that I felt were really good and I enjoyed rewatching. What do you guys think? There were 2 shows I didn't mention, Half a Life and Night Terrors. I remember them as weak episodes, though it's usually fun to see Majel back as Mrs. Troi, maybe you guys have different views?
post #66 of 235

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
Future Imperfect is also a favorite. It was a really cool show that looks at an alternate future for Riker and the Enterprise as he awakes years later to learn he lost his memories and is the Captain of the Enterpeise with a son. However Riker figures out it's all trick as he sees the mother of his son is Minuet, a Holodeck creation. Nice return for Carolyn McCormick. Of course he's tricked again to think it's a Romulan trick, but then learns it's really a lonely Alien child looking for company. Really well done I think!

So here's something that always bugged me. Future Imperfect was the first episode to showcase the Alternate Insignia Combadge, that featured the officers rank in bars behind the Starfleet Arrow. These were seen a few times throughout the series after this, but all the other times we actually were in the future or alternate dimensions. Meanwhile the origin of it was from some alien's imagination. LAME!
post #67 of 235
Thread Starter 

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ockeghem
I'm kind of skipping around. I like how you didn't restrict the thread to any one season, but worded it the way you did so that we could all add whatever thoughts we had regarding any episode.

No problem Scott, this is a TNG thread.

Zack, regarding the comm badges from Future Imperfect. I'll look into that, or maybe someone else knows. But there must be a story here.
post #68 of 235

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
The Star Trek The Next Generation Companion notes that the fourth seaaon focused on two things, family and the return of old characters. That sure was true!

That was another way TNG departed from TOS, and it was a good decision. Filling in backstory and bringing back characters we've seen before helped to deepen the overall show, which was really developing a complex universe of characters, places and events. They were getting closer to a consistent continuity, which is what most fans always wanted, but studios stayed away from for fear of alienating syndication networks.

The fourth season is one of my favorites, closely tied with the third for best of the seven years. Many of the episodes you cite are the reasons why.

Family is one of the biggest departures for the series, and remains one of the finest hours the show ever did. What a crime that the characters of Robert and Rene were so casually killed off (off screen, no less!) in Generations. I would have liked to see them again, and more importantly, they deserved better.
post #69 of 235

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack Gibbs
So here's something that always bugged me. Future Imperfect was the first episode to showcase the Alternate Insignia Combadge, that featured the officers rank in bars behind the Starfleet Arrow. These were seen a few times throughout the series after this, but all the other times we actually were in the future or alternate dimensions. Meanwhile the origin of it was from some alien's imagination. LAME!

I think it was just a matter of needing a futuristic version of the combadge, and hey, here's this cool thing we did once, let's use it again. For all we know, Riker had seen a development version of that combadge and the alien took it from his memory to use it.

Far worse (and pointless) was the change in combadges around the time of Generations, when the oval behind the delta was changed to a kind of rectangular thing with a hole in the middle. I liked the TNG badges, not the movie ones (which were used on Voyager and DS9). This takes me to a discussion of the look of TNG vs later shows, and I think TNG wins with its brighter colors and brightly lit sets, compared with Voyager's dull, mostly black suits and very darkly lit sets. DS9's initial uniforms were dull too, but got better when they switched in the 5th season. DS9's lighting wasn't as bright as TNG but suited that show.
post #70 of 235

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Sam Favate wrote (post #69):


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This takes me to a discussion of the look of TNG vs later shows, and I think TNG wins with its brighter colors and brightly lit sets, compared with Voyager's dull, mostly black suits and very darkly lit sets. DS9's initial uniforms were dull too, but got better when they switched in the 5th season. DS9's lighting wasn't as bright as TNG but suited that show.

The lighting on Voyager was one of the few things the producers actually got right (and TNG definitely got wrong). Voyager's lighting also suited that show and was much more realistic to long-term deep-space travel than the "brightly lit sets" of TNG or TOS. In deep space, such waste would prove fatal.

Americans love to waste energy and, comforted by their politicians and capitalists, have come to think that our present situation is, and can always be the norm. Well, it can't, as it seems we're going to find out the hard way quite soon.

More anon.
post #71 of 235

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

I've been watching season 3 again and the lighting in Yesterday's Enterprise was great. I wish they had kept it and explained it as being a temporal anomaly or something...
post #72 of 235
Thread Starter 

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Regarding lighting, Data's Day was an interesting example of where they show the day watch and night watch on the bridge. When Riker comes on the bridge for duty and takes over from Data, the bridge is dark. Riker calls for the day watch to begin and the lighting on the bridge goes light as it usually is.

I can imaging a rather routine or non-eventful 8 hours on the con and wonder if the navigator or helmsman could get drowsy in those darker conditions.
post #73 of 235

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

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Originally Posted by Roger_R
I've been watching season 3 again and the lighting in Yesterday's Enterprise was great. I wish they had kept it and explained it as being a temporal anomaly or something...
Agreed. And the edge that most of the crew members had after the 'shift' was something that I really liked as well. It would have been nice to have explored that 'mood' a bit more in future episodes.
post #74 of 235

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
Regarding lighting, Data's Day was an interesting example of where they show the day watch and night watch on the bridge. When Riker comes on the bridge for duty and takes over from Data, the bridge is dark. Riker calls for the day watch to begin and the lighting on the bridge goes light as it usually is.

I can imaging a rather routine or non-eventful 8 hours on the con and wonder if the navigator or helmsman could get drowsy in those darker conditions.

I've always wondered, out in space why is there even a concept of 'day and night'? As I understand it, there isn't much of a distinction on a submarine, just different shifts and the sailors even have to hot-bunk it, to save space (i.e. two share one bunk, one's on shift, the other is off and sleeps in the bunk). But at least on a sub, there might be a concept of local time, to respond to surface threats that would tend to be more active during the day. In deep space, wouldn't encounters, if any, all be at random?
post #75 of 235

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Bachmann

The lighting on Voyager was one of the few things the producers actually got right (and TNG definitely got wrong). Voyager's lighting also suited that show and was much more realistic to long-term deep-space travel than the "brightly lit sets" of TNG or TOS. In deep space, such waste would prove fatal.

Americans love to waste energy and, comforted by their politicians and capitalists, have come to think that our present situation is, and can always be the norm. Well, it can't, as it seems we're going to find out the hard way quite soon.

More anon.

Whoa there. Not all Americans "love to waste energy," and anyway, we're talking about a TV show, in which everything doesn't have to be realistic in 20th or 21st century terms.

I would assume Federation starships aren't powered by fossil fuels, so maybe they have a fuel source that wouldn't be wasteful and they are able to keep the lights on, so the audience (!) can see what is going on!

So we will have to agree to disagree: I still think the lighting is one of the many things Voyager got very wrong.
post #76 of 235

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Favate
Whoa there. Not all Americans "love to waste energy," and anyway, we're talking about a TV show, in which everything doesn't have to be realistic in 20th or 21st century terms.

I would assume Federation starships aren't powered by fossil fuels, so maybe they have a fuel source that wouldn't be wasteful and they are able to keep the lights on, so the audience (!) can see what is going on!

So we will have to agree to disagree: I still think the lighting is one of the many things Voyager got very wrong.

The 2 shows I could accept being Dark was DS9, becasue they are on an old Cardassian station, and Voyager where they are supposedly low on resources (of course that does'nt stop them from using the Holodeck all the time !)
post #77 of 235

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Nelson,

If you'll permit me a slight tangent, although it's related to the previous posts in that it discusses VOY.

Last night, we watched Day of Honor and Nemesis (first time for both of these episodes). I loved the dialogue in the second episode. It wasn't quite as challenging as the TNG episode Darmok, but it was nevertheless quite entertaining.

As my son went off to bed last night, I left him with this thought:

"In the soon after, he will glimpse the glare and fastwalk toward the trunks while on his sphere. In the here after, he will unopen his teeth covering and gasp. Fathom?"

In some ways, it almost has a 'Silaran Prin dialogue' feel to it.
post #78 of 235

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Yee Ming wrote (post #74):

Quote:
I've always wondered, out in space why is there even a concept of 'day and night'? As I understand it, there isn't much of a distinction on a submarine, just different shifts and the sailors even have to hot-bunk it, to save space (i.e. two share one bunk, one's on shift, the other is off and sleeps in the bunk). But at least Soon a sub, there might be a concept of local time, to respond to surface threats that would tend to be more active during the day. In deep space, wouldn't encounters, if any, all be at random?

In TOS-episode "The Conscience of the King", Captain Kirk explains to Lenore Karidian the necessity of simulating day and night aboard ship to keep the crew to what it is used to in natural environments. In any event, it is known that animals (& plants) respond to variations in lighting in keeping their so-called bio-rhythms in sync. (Excessive light is a sleep-killer.) It's a matter of health and biological well-being. That submariners have traditionally not been treated to such considerations has to do with the recentness of findings, the cost involved in the provision, and that technology hasn't caught up with the need yet. In the future world of Star Trek all these issues are supposed to already be nonfactors.

Sam Favate wrote (post #75):

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. . . I still think the lighting is one of the many things Voyager got very wrong . . . . we will have to . . . disagree . . . .

Yes, we will.

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Whoa there. Not all Americans "love to waste energy," . . .

Well, we seem to do a damned good job of it, with superfluous electronic gadgets and diversions---electronic Monopoly, anyone?---overly lit cooled and/or heated office buildings (often with no openable windows), houses, etc. during daylight hours on bright sunny days, and with streetlights beaming light pollution into the night skies.

Quote:
. . . anyway, we're talking about a TV show, in which everything doesn't have to be realistic in 20th or 21st century terms.

I would assume Federation starships aren't powered by fossil fuels, so maybe they have a fuel source that wouldn't be wasteful and they are able to keep the lights on, so the audience (!) can see what is going on!

So, in other words, you're deep into fantasy, instead of "science-fiction". You're posing the supposed needs of the audience---I could see what I needed to see in the scenes quite well, thank you; and I watched them all---against the story characters' needs.

Any unnecessary use of fuel is a waste, by definition. One doesn't need to see every nook and cranny of a room or a corridor brightly lit every time one is there in order to function properly. It's only an esthetic inculcated through a culture of wasteful habits, arrogant (and unjustified) self-assurance of continued plenty, and namby-pamby daintiness about "what's in the dark" ("boogeyman-fever"?) that shapes a perception of need of continuous and unabated consumption of precious resources.

Think they're not "precious"? Wait till you run out. (And hundreds or thousands of light years from exploitable new ones? [ugh!])
post #79 of 235

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

If I have to read another environmental rant in this (STAR TREK!) thread I'm leaving every light in my house on for a week.
post #80 of 235
Thread Starter 

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Scott- I have not seen Voyager in a long while! So I am not familiar with what you posted.
post #81 of 235

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack Gibbs
If I have to read another environmental rant in this (STAR TREK!) thread I'm leaving every light in my house on for a week.
My vote for post of the week. I love it Zack!
post #82 of 235

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Zach Gibbs wrote (post #79):

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If I have to read another environmental rant in this (STAR TREK!) thread I'm leaving every light in my house on for a week.


Well, [whoopty-doo] for you!

Conan O'Brien just last night (6/10/'08) introduced a completely new character on his Late Night program that, according to him, is his show's contribution to NBC-Universal's marketing attempt to tie watching its programming to feelings of American "patriotism": "the obese bald eagle who drives a [gas-guzzling] hummer he bought with money he raised against his foreclosed house".

If that doesn't say it all, I don't know what does.
post #83 of 235

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

I'm just about caught up.

(a) Some characters:

Wesley:

Nelson Au wrote (post #1):

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Where No One has Gone Before was interesting in that it sets-up Wesley as a special person. I liked this episode, it sets into motion Wesley getting the attention his abilities warranted and marks Picard's change of character from a guy who hates kids to someone with more affinity for kids in later seasons. I know a lot of people hated Wesley because he always saved the day, but he didn't do it that often.

"A lot of people hated Wesley" because he got unreƤlistic amounts of attention and undeserved amounts of screen time, and the writers portrayed the adult cast members as know-nothing fools by comparison, the typical godawful Lucas/Spielberg "kid-centricity". Awful.

Ockeghem wrote (post #6):

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And I personally have no problem with Wesley. I just keep in mind why Gene wanted him in the show, and why he was named 'Wesley.'

Ego and self-importance? Greed? "Insurance"?


Picard:

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But . . . [Picard] . . . seems to change the most in my mind as he's so loosey goosy in the beginning.


"loosy-goosy"? Picard?!?!? Do you actually know what that word means???


Riker:


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One of my best friends has maintained for years that when TNG came along, they somehow had to fill some huge shoes, especially with regard to how they were going to replace Spock. He believes that they did this successfully, but that it took two characters to do it: Commander Riker and Lt. Commander Data. I tend to see this as well. I may elaborate on this a bit later.

Riker??? Yeah, I'd like to see/hear that explanation. Please share.


Worf:

Stephen_L wrote (post #17):

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Initially all the characters seemed bland, uniformly nice and noble. Worf with his aggressive, violent disposition stood out early on and was a welcome relief from all the niceness.

Originally he was supposed to be a recurring, but nonregular character.


(b) Some episodes:

(post #1):

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Home soil is a strong episode too, a modern version of Devil in the Dark. Sure the micro computer's use of "ugly bags of mostly water" was lame dialogue, but I liked the story.

It's the story that's lame. At least the dialog indicates the aliens don't want to have sex with "boobilicious blond babes", unlike so many of Hollywood's knuckleheaded creƤtions.

(post #6):

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Notable line. . .[from "Where No One Has Gone Before"]:

"That space ... and time ... and thought ... aren't the separate things they appear to be?" (Wesley). This is a profound line, and it's interesting to see the reaction of the Traveler to these words. His emotions become relatively agitated, and for one brief moment, he appears to be on the verge of becoming angry. He is quick to suggest that Wesley never repeat this idea to anyone.

Too bad 20th-century quantum theory had already beaten them all to this "profundity" four centuries earlier, even though the writers here pretend that this "revelation"---to the extent that it is even valid---is new to 24th-century man.

(post #26):

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Where Silence Has Lease was a bit goofy, though interesting idea for an alien to turn the tables and test humans to learn about them. The only good line was Nagilum asking Dr. Polaski to demonstrate how humans reproduce.

A darn good idea, in fact: a deathless alien that experiments on mortal beings in order to understand the phenomenon of death. Not "goofy" in the least, just that bad ol' "science-thingy" some of you "fans" seem to have so much trouble with.

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The only good line was Nagilum asking Dr. Polaski to demonstrate how humans reproduce.

Not the only good line!

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Elementary Dear Data shows us Data's further fascination with Sherlock Holmes. This was interesting as it explores the idea of a Holodeck character coming to life.

It is a surprise that the Holodeck computer can create a holographic Moriarty that can challenge Data in a new mystery and the character becomes aware in order to do so. I would think the Holodeck designers would make a safeguard against that too!

Reportedly, they did make such a restriction, but the writers ignored it almost from the beginning.

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I found A Matter of Honor more fun. Of course it introduced us to Gagh! And more about the Klingons was shown, I like that they are portrayed like humans are, . . .

Aha! Nonalien aliens, a "science-fiction fan" favorite.


(post #36):

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. . . Identity Crisis was IMO a phenomenal episode when it first aired. For me, it has a very The Outer Limits feel to it. . . . It was chilling, . . .

Almost a "creep classic". ([Pssst!] Brannon Braga wrote the teleplay.)


(post #65):

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But Clues was a really cool idea. It is revealed that Data is hiding the truth of why the Enterprise lost 24 hours and as a mystery, the crew does what it can to figure out the cause. And it all points to Data. But turns out the Enterprise accidentally discover a hidden planet whose inhabitants will do anything to stay hidden, including destroying the Enterprise. Picard order's Data to hide all evidence and never reveal the incident. Really well done show and resolution!

A very good episode, almost completely spoiled by the resolution, which pretty much undercuts all that went before it. No way will I ever buy that a truly "xenophobic" race that wanted to keep its very existence hidden from all other intelligences would risk being revealed by letting anyone---any intelligent being---or anything bearing such information go free. Just wouldn't happen. No way!


(post #65):

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Galaxy's Child is another one of my favorite's . . . . Another nice and sweet ending, the baby goes off to join a group of it's life form before they attack the Enterprise . . . .

More silliness. Picard almost lets his whole crew be killed over this stupid "noblesse oblige" crap. Unbelievable. I wouldn't want 'im as my captain.

(post #65):

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. . . Half a Life and Night Terrors. I remember them as weak ep

"Night Terrors"; great idea, less than perfect execution.

RickER wrote (post #20):

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. . . my vote for worst...toss-up between MASKS, and the one where everyone de-evolves ["Genesis"]. Hated both. As a matter of fact i would sit through Spock's Brain or The Way to Eden for the rest of my life, before id watch either of those 1 more time.


Dave Scarpa wrote (post #41):

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I actually grew tired of "Possessed Data" Because Spiner could only play it like Lore everytime, so it just became awful Dull.

The Worst example of "{PossesedData}" was the 7th Season Stinker MASKS. I could barely sit thru that one the first time, I usually skip it by choice.

Why, gentlemen? Why?


(c) Some corrections:

(post #1)

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[In "Arsenal of Freedom"] Geordi and the green crew prevail!

[ahem!] That's the brown crew!

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. . . it is true as a poster pounted out in the TOS thread, the Ron Jones scores are very emotional, but they're right too for the stories.


Uh, that (I think) was (me paraphrasing) Ron Jones paraphrasing Rick Berman ("Does the music have to be so, [um], . . . emotional?").

Quote:
Too bad he left.


[ahem!] He was fired!


Lou Sytsma wrote (post #19):

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I realize they wanted to distance themselves from obviously copying the dynamics of the original crew, especially on the bridge scenes, but the lack of a dedicated science officer on the bridge for an exploration vessel is something that never sat well with me and one which I feel was a bad decision and omission for the TNG series. They might as well have called a spade a spade and made Data the science officer anyway as he fulfilled that function far more than he ever did in his designated role as navigator.


I think you've got that backwards. A real chief science officer would in all probability not be spending most of his on-duty time on the bridge. That's just an artifice of Hollywood scriptwriting and staging that has him (or the chief medical officer or the chief engineer, for that matter) stationed there.


Sam Favate wrote (post #5):

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I am also not a fan of Brannon Braga and his overuse of the "what is reality?" storyline.

Oh, you mean like, "(ontological-existential) science fiction", instead of comedy, politics, or warm family get-togethers in space? (All sarcasm aside, the Twilight Zone pastiche "Frame of Mind", with its blue and gray scenery recalling the old crisp black and white tv, truly didn't work. However, if you try something different, you may indeed flunk. "C'est la vie!")

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IMO, the combination of Taylor and Braga significantly weakened the show in its final seasons . . . .


You've probably got that half-right.

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. . . the show . . . is among the very best science fiction shows ever on TV.

For once we agree (sort of). But that was partly due to, not despite, Brannon Braga (before he took the walk on the "trite side", that is).

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Sadly, the movies didn't live up to the show. While I enjoyed First Contact (despite its continuity flaws), the other TNG movies are among the worst of all Star Trek films, particularly Nemesis. The film division never did right by such a great show.

After ST:TMP, Paramount turned over the making of the films to the television division to keep the budgets down. Only with the split of CBS from Viacom proper does the tv division go to another company (separate, yet owned by the same "moghul", Sumner Redstone), and the handing over of "the Franchise" to Paramount's movie division come again into play. All those earlier movies in the series that you're talking about were made by the television division of Paramount Studios, except the first, ST: TMP.

(d) Some general comments:

(post #18):

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Incidentally, I agree about the aliens, too. But I think the Ferengi had more of an edge (relatively speaking) in the first season of TNG than they had later. I have no idea why, though.

That's because the producers made a conscious decision to reĆÆntroduce the Romulans and the Klingons as threats and to reduce the Ferengi to sideline quasi-villains. They didn't know how to get past the "Keystone Cop"-antics of the Ferengis' first appearance and didn't dare play up the original sexual angle that Roddenberry apparently had had in mind for them. (This is supposed to be "family programming", after all.) The Ferengis' fatal flaw as villains was supposed to be their unethical capitalism ("What is 'Yankee trader'?"), but that didn't go down at all well near the end of the "go-go! Greed-is-good!" Reagan era. So, as usual, it was "back to the future" for the producers.

Gary Seven wrote (post #22):

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For me, TNG was a natural extension of TOS. While others complain of the first two seasons, I felt those were more like Star Trek than the subsequent seasons following. It was the first two seasons that actually had the crew of the Enterprise EXPLORE the majority of the time. Later the crew acted more as policemen rather then explorers. In fact, later on they really did very little exploring.


The producers had a fundamental problem in that they cast the Enterprise-D as both an exploratory vessel and as the "flagship of the Federation". These functions were fundamentally incompatible. In general, you don't send your "flagship" into unknown territory to do scientific exploration.

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Ironically enough, it was the first two seasons that actually showed the imperfections of the crew and their personal hell they went through.

Do you mean simply that there were more personal stories in those two seasons and fewer later? Please elaborate.


(post #28):

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I agree with what you have written, especially . . . "That doesn't mean it's bad." For my own part, I do not see it in any way as being a problem. I was very happy to see it being a 'retread' of TOS. I am a hardcore fan of Trek (have been for over forty years); as such, pleasing my kind, if you will, was in part of paramount [] importance to TPTB.


Very telling.


Bryan^H wrote (post #15):

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. . . Enterprise kind of grows on you if you give it a chance.

So does fungus.
post #84 of 235

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
Scott- I have not seen Voyager in a long while! So I am not familiar with what you posted.
Nelson,

That was from Nemesis. The dialogue (from those whom were eventually revealed as the 'cult-like' group) was quite imaginative. The writers probably had a lot of fun with that one.
post #85 of 235

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

The 4th season of Enterprise is pretty good Rex, it doesnt even have to grow on you. Its real Trek, something that IMO had been lacking for a few years. Not to put any hate on other shows that have the title Trek in them. well, maybe a little hate for seasons 1-3 of Enterprise.

The first time i ever saw Yesterdays Enterprise i missed the first 5 or 10 minutes. I didnt know what was going on, and couldnt have been more lost. I did like the uniforms, however!
post #86 of 235

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Great posts and thoughts everyone. I enjoy reading them. I'm not inclined to rewatch any TNG episodes so can only remark in generalities.

Rex your point about having the senior officers such as the ones for science and engineering on the bridge as a Hollywood artifice is one I would like to examine further.

For dramatic purposes it does make things easier to have the main cast members together but there are also practical advantages of having the main officers together in one physical location. There is no replacement for face to face communication in my experience.

The lack of a dedicated science officer on the bridge of the TNG Enterprise always marked the major difference between the dynamics of the TOS and TNG Enterprise's purposes. The original Enterprise was manned for exploration and discovery whereas the TNG Enterprise was geared towards diplomatic negotiations. Very telling.
post #87 of 235

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickER
The first time i ever saw Yesterdays Enterprise i missed the first 5 or 10 minutes. I didnt know what was going on, and couldnt have been more lost. I did like the uniforms, however!
Wow Rick. That must have been disconcerting, to say the least. The first time I saw it, I could not figure out the time-frame until they informed the viewer. Sure, I knew something had happened, but I wasn't sure what it was.

I liked seeing Yar again; I didn't particularly enjoy her departure in Skin of Evil, even though it was penned by Stefano. I also thought the Castillo-Yar relationship was interesting, and (had it continued), showed some promise. And Guinan was as usual provocative.
post #88 of 235

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou Sytsma
Rex your point about having the senior officers such as the ones for science and engineering on the bridge as a Hollywood artifice is one I would like to examine further.

I don't think it was really ever that bad though. Spock was the science officer but he was also the XO. There are limited stations for Engineering but most of the time the Engineers could actually be found in Engineering. The doctors just hung out on the bridge occasionally, McCoy didn't even get a seat.
post #89 of 235

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Lou Sytsma wrote (post # 86):

Quote:
Rex your point about having the senior officers such as the ones for science and engineering on the bridge as a Hollywood artifice is one I would like to examine further.

Well, I thought, and said, some time ago that the way you solve that problem is by having the main characters not, for the most part, be "extratopical"---that is, artificially out of place.

Quote:
The lack of a dedicated science officer on the bridge of the TNG Enterprise always marked the major difference between the dynamics of the TOS and TNG Enterprise's purposes. The original Enterprise was manned for exploration and discovery whereas the TNG Enterprise was geared towards diplomatic negotiations. Very telling.

Note, my objections do not apply to having representatives from, say, the science departments or engineering stationed on the bridge. On big ships like those presented in ST tv shows and movies---which I consider to be unreƤlistic in and of themselves for deep-space voyaging (but that's another story)---, one might well make the case for consultants from important departments to be close at the captain's hand. The problem I have is with having the chief medical, science, engineering, or whatever officer on hand at all too frequent and artificial times. During emergencies (as well as at most other times, I think), Scotty/Geordi/Torres/whoever should be looking to the best care and repair, where necessary, of the engines, which doesn't---or shouldn't---include pushing buttons on the bridge. I have suggested elsewhere that most chief characters in the series shouldn't be high- or the highest-ranked officers on the ships. Kirk, for instance, shouldn't have been captain, but, rather, the head of security, with the captain being a considerably older background character who stayed aboard ship most of the time. Likewise, the Enterprise-D/-E itself needn't have been the biggest, most advanced, best run, etc. ship in Star Fleet. In my opinion, the stories would probably have been more interesting if it hadn't. But "making it so"---pun intended!---is standard Hollywood narrative artifice. There are ways to satisfy versimilitude without at all crippling the drama, but it takes imagination and brain work, something which very few producers seem to require and which most popular audiences don't seem to demand.


Quote:
For dramatic purposes it does make things easier to have the main cast members together but there are also practical advantages of having the main officers together in one physical location. There is no replacement for face to face communication in my experience.

Easy, yes, plausible, no. It's already far too easy for lazy Hollywood writers and producers, in my view.

RickER wrote (post #85):

Quote:
The 4th season of Enterprise is pretty good Rex, it doesnt even have to grow on you. Its real Trek, . . . .

Well, that's one opinion. Another---mine---is that the fourth season of Enterprise strains in its own tedious, epigonal way at smothering itself in Trek legacy as the preceding ones had, under different producers, strained to distance themselves from it. Your "real Trek" adds up to tons of Vulcans, Klingons, Romulans, and the like; in other words, the same old same-old, which adds up to just SOSO, in my book.
post #90 of 235

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

I am very late to this thread, but wanted to join in with my thoughts and memories as well.

I remember being very excited and nervous about the new Next Generation. Would it be any good? Would Star Trek without Kirk and crew suck? Would it even be Star Trek? I had been a Star Trek fan since the early seventies and knew many of the episodes by heart. I used to actually record the audio from them onto cassette. Surprisingly, many of them made fine radio dramas!

Anyway, besides having a few Trek adventures on the big screen, it was great knowing that we were about to get new stories on a weekly basis for however long it would last. Who knew? Maybe it would only go for one season... or even less! I made sure, I was recording them again for posterity. This time on videotape.

My roommate at the time was also a big Trek fan, so there we sat watching the two hour pilot unfold. For the most part, we were pretty happy with it. Although, at first I couldn't resist mentally super-imposing my beloved characters over Picard, Data and so on. Thinking... is this how Kirk and Spock would handle it? It probably didn't help things that Q seemed to be at least inspired by Trelane. As the season unfolded, I got much more comfortable with this new ship and crew. Sure, that first season had plenty of rough spots. I think Wesley wore out his welcome with us pretty fast. He was making the adults look like morons.

But Star Trek was back. And I was on board for as long as it would last.

Back to the recording of the show... My roommate and I both worked at a TV station in the News dept. I was a photog and he was the weekend Sports guy. Our station was not broadcasting the new show... it was on one of the other affiliates. Anyway, after the first episode aired we soon discovered the satellite coordinates of the show's feed. This was like striking gold! We now could watch the episodes a week before anyone else! Soon, I was re-editing them to cut out the commercials. Each feed would also have different mixes of various lengths of the teasers for upcoming episodes. I saved it all!

In December of '87, I got another job at another station, in a different part of the country. I missed watching the show with my buddy, but we still kept in touch and often discussed the episodes. We kept waiting for the day where Worf would smarten up and throw Wes out an airlock! No offense Wil Wheaton, we didn't have anything against you personally, really!

TNG's greatest time for me was the 3rd and 4th seasons, the show had really come into its own and it's two part Borg episode (man, that was a long summer!) and "Family" which followed it were my favorite episodes. I was so glad that they decided to do an epilogue of sorts to what had been such a major storyline for Picard. It really added depth to his character and to the show.

When I recorded "Best of Both Worlds" I edited it into a (mostly) seamless 92 minute (without commercials) movie. When Riker ordered "Fire!" at the end of part one, instead of going to black and saying "To be continued..." it went directly to the next shot in part two, as the music swelled up (from part one) and the main deflector dish was powering up and fired... It all worked really well. I cut out the main title sequence from part two. The only caveat was that after the open was done, I had to leave part two's story credits up, because they were going over the actual episode. Anyway, no one could ever tell where part one ended and the teaser from part two began.

I also did this for the other two parters, but it never worked as well as it did for BoBW. I always thought that Paramount should have released it that way at some point. And they would have been able to put all the credits in part one!

I kept recording them a week ahead of time all through TNG and DS9. When I was off or out of town, I would get someone at the station to record it for me. So, yeah, some of them knew I was a nut! I finally gave up when Voyager was the only one left and just recorded it at home. Besides, with any luck, maybe they would be releasing the shows on this new DVD technology!

Anyway, I never could have imagined in my wildest dreams that from that first season of TNG that Trek would have continued on uninterrupted for another 17 years/24 seasons. Sometimes 2 shows running concurrently! It was quite a change from those long years in the 70's with nothing but cut up versions of the classic 79 episodes.

As a whole, I think DS9 became my favorite series, mostly because of the character growth and the great big arcs. But many of my favorite Trek episodes of all time still belong to TNG.

Stewart's acting in shows like "Inner Light" and "Chain of Command" would send shivers down my spine and I often though he should have been nominated for an Emmy for his fine portrayal of Captain Picard.

Ok, I guess I've rambled on enough for now. I'll just close by saying "Live Long and Pr.." -- Um, er, I mean "Make it so!"

Okay, so TOS still had the better catch-phrases!
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