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Kino to bring METROPOLIS to Blu-Ray in 2009 - Page 2

post #31 of 110
6/25/08 at 4:04am

Re: Kino to bring METROPOLIS to Blu-Ray in 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Conway
Correct. The Harold Lloyd estate has an exclusive deal with New Line.
Ah, thanks for clarification Brandon! Wife and I have been watching some Harold Lloyd films DVR'd from TCM. Might even get around to buying the boxset New Line released awhile back finally.

Glad I DVR'd this from TCM! It was a really long time since I saw this last. I believe back in film history class in college several years ago. Speaking of Kino on Video, the wife out of the blue asks me if I'd like any vampire films. I mentioned Nosferatu (1920's) and she mentioned later Kino released an Ultimate Edition. Nice. Here's hoping Kino will release a Douglas Fairbanks set too on BD!
This'll be a title I'd buy and I don't even own a Blu-ray player yet! Um, well, I do sometimes go over to a buddies house and use his PS3 as a player...
So is this the only title for BD Kino is releasing on the format so far? It'd be a wiser choice if the company releases a wave of titles in the same vein as Criterion.
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post #32 of 110
6/25/08 at 1:45pm

Re: Kino to bring METROPOLIS to Blu-Ray in 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassy_w
The Moroder version is held up by music rights. Too expensive to buy the music rights for DVD.

I can understand if it was a diverse bunch of existing rock songs used in the movie like HEAVY METAL being the problem, but weren't all the songs produced by Moroder specifically for his version?
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post #33 of 110
6/25/08 at 1:53pm

Re: Kino to bring METROPOLIS to Blu-Ray in 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray_R
So is this the only title for BD Kino is releasing on the format so far? It'd be a wiser choice if the company releases a wave of titles in the same vein as Criterion.
They're releasing "Fallen Angels" this fall:

Blu-ray.com - Kino to Begin Releasing Blu-ray this Fall
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post #34 of 110
6/25/08 at 10:32pm

Re: Kino to bring METROPOLIS to Blu-Ray in 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Adkins
Are you sure about that? Just as all the previous DVDs and VHS versions were forced out of print, I don't see why this version would be any different. Just about every version on video was an alternate version since they all had different scores. Just because Moroder's version used a pop soundtrack doesn't really make the legal stance any different. At least thats how it seems to me, but I'm by no means a legal expert.

I have the same question. Since the rights over derivative works are inherent in a copyright and Moroder's version is derivative, as it wouldn't exist without the original work, how can there be a separate copyright? The only thing Moroder could copyright is the material that didn't already exist, in this case the soundtrack. As you said Jeff, the Murnau Foundation (owner of the images) and Moroder (or whoever is the owner of the music) would have to make an agreement.
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post #35 of 110
6/26/08 at 6:20am
Thread Starter 

Re: Kino to bring METROPOLIS to Blu-Ray in 2009

Moroder's version also included 'new' subtitle text, original stylized intertitles and still photos. The question of who actually owns the film in this case is something I can't answer. Producers Sales Organization/Vestron is no more, and is now Lions Gate, but Image did release "Short Circuit".
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post #36 of 110
6/26/08 at 4:42pm

Re: Kino to bring METROPOLIS to Blu-Ray in 2009

The same way that Disney holds the video rights to Kill Bill Volumes I and II and The Weinstein Company holds the rights to The Whole Bloody Affair version. It's best to look at intellectual property rights as a bundle of rights containing both copyrights and moral rights. Moral rights enjoy greater protection in the EU than in North America and give the artist greater control over how his work is presented to the public.

How does this all figure into Metropolis? Simple. The Murnau Foundation, upon restoration of the current cut of Metropolis, copyrighted that particular cut of the film. Moroder (or his backers) holds copyright over his cut of the film. The two can co-exist, but because of moral rights, another wrinkle exists with respect to the music in the Moroder version: even though Moroder and Pete Bellotte wrote all the music for their version of Metropolis, if Kino were to licence this version and include in their BD release, they'd still have to go to the artists' representatives to licence the performances for a video release. A cumbersome task in this case, since that means Freddie Mercury, Pat Benatar, Jon Anderson, Loverboy, Bonnie Tyler, Billy Squier and several others. NOT as ugly as Heavy Metal was, mind you, but close enough.
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post #37 of 110
6/26/08 at 6:47pm

Re: Kino to bring METROPOLIS to Blu-Ray in 2009

Moroder's Metropolis has already been released on home video, though — there were LaserDiscs issued in Japan (Pioneer) as well as the US (Vestron). A Blu-Ray release would not be de novo, & there would not be this hassle as with movies or TV having music that was never cleared for home video in the first place.
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post #38 of 110
6/27/08 at 6:29am

Re: Kino to bring METROPOLIS to Blu-Ray in 2009

Like with MIAMI VICE, everything would have to be paid for all over again for DVD and BD with regards to the Moroder Metropolis, which I have on Laserdisc, by the way.
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post #39 of 110
6/27/08 at 8:11am
Thread Starter 

Re: Kino to bring METROPOLIS to Blu-Ray in 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassy_w
which I have on Laserdisc, by the way.

As do I. It's one of the reasons I still have a player (and, judging by by ebay prices, one of the few remaining discs I still have and refuse to part with)
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post #40 of 110
6/27/08 at 11:38am

Re: Kino to bring METROPOLIS to Blu-Ray in 2009

I guess it's redundant, but also Moroder's cut was available on VHS (at least here in Spain) around '88-'89.
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post #41 of 110
6/27/08 at 3:31pm

Re: Kino to bring METROPOLIS to Blu-Ray in 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristopherDAC
Moroder's Metropolis has already been released on home video, though — there were LaserDiscs issued in Japan (Pioneer) as well as the US (Vestron). A Blu-Ray release would not be de novo, & there would not be this hassle as with movies or TV having music that was never cleared for home video in the first place.
But these would have been licenced releases, as neither Vestron nor Pioneer is the original rights holder. The rights would have to be negotiated as if it were a de novo release.
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post #42 of 110
7/1/08 at 8:58am

Re: Kino to bring METROPOLIS to Blu-Ray in 2009

Wasn't Moroder's version also a recut? I seem to remember it being significantly shorter than even the pre-restoration version, though I haven't seen it in many, many years. So there would be rights associated with the creative choices in the cuts too, if I'm remembering it right....what a mess.
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post #43 of 110
7/1/08 at 9:09am

Re: Kino to bring METROPOLIS to Blu-Ray in 2009

Part of the reason for the reduction in length with Moroder's version was the replacement of intertitles with subtitles. When you take 15-30 seconds out between every scene, it adds up. Moroder's was actually the most complete Metropolis until the Murnau Foundation did its restoration.
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post #44 of 110
7/1/08 at 4:47pm

Re: Kino to bring METROPOLIS to Blu-Ray in 2009

Moroder trimmed a lot of scenes down to the essential details (whilst strangely neglecting to have any text for the Evil Maria's speech to the workers, resulting in a very silly scene!) I absolutely adore the Moroder version, and it would be great to see it reappear on DVD. Until then, my dvdr of the UK tape will have to do
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post #45 of 110
7/2/08 at 4:27am

Re: Kino to bring METROPOLIS to Blu-Ray in 2009

Does anybody know if the HD is made directly from the 2K restoration files?
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post #46 of 110
7/2/08 at 10:58am

Re: Kino to bring METROPOLIS to Blu-Ray in 2009

Well, with this news that the original uncut version of Metropolis has been found (there's a thread in the SD forum), will Kino still go on with their plans for this on Blu-ray?
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post #47 of 110
7/2/08 at 11:22am

Re: Kino to bring METROPOLIS to Blu-Ray in 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray H
Well, with this news that the original uncut version of Metropolis has been found (there's a thread in the SD forum), will Kino still go on with their plans for this on Blu-ray?

Well that certainly changes things. Pretty awesome news.
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post #48 of 110
7/2/08 at 12:13pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Kino to bring METROPOLIS to Blu-Ray in 2009

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post #49 of 110
7/2/08 at 12:13pm

Re: Kino to bring METROPOLIS to Blu-Ray in 2009

Holy smokes. Now that, people, is news.
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post #50 of 110
7/2/08 at 2:11pm

Re: Kino to bring METROPOLIS to Blu-Ray in 2009

It seems to me that since the Blu-ray release was only mentioned a few weeks ago, and since they have obviously known about these elements for a while and were just waiting to confirm everything was there, that the BD for 2009 may indeed be the full restoration. I mean, they're saying that they will be restoring it and making it available for consumers, so it only makes sense.
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post #51 of 110
7/2/08 at 4:04pm

Re: Kino to bring METROPOLIS to Blu-Ray in 2009

“Metropolis": Key scenes from the famous movie rediscovered | Nachrichten auf ZEIT online

Quote:
Among the footage that has now been discovered, according to the unanimous opinion of the three experts that ZEITmagazin asked to appraise the pictures, there are several scenes which are essential in order to understand the film: The role played by the actor Fritz Rasp in the film for instance, can finally be understood. Other scenes, such as for instance the saving of the children from the worker’s underworld, are considerably more dramatic. In brief: “Metropolis, Fritz Lang’s most famous film, can be seen through new eyes.”, as stated by Rainer Rother, Director of the Deutsche Kinemathek Museum and head of the series of retrospectives at the Berlinale.

Quote:
The rediscovered material is in need of restoration after 80 years; the pictures are scratched, but clearly recognizable. Martin Koerber, the restorer of the hitherto longest known version of “Metropolis”, who also examined the footage, said to ZEITmagazin: “No matter how bad the condition of the material may be, the original intention of the film, including all of its minor characters and subplots, is now once again tangible for the normal viewer. The rhythm of the film has been restored.”
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post #52 of 110
7/2/08 at 6:23pm

Re: Kino to bring METROPOLIS to Blu-Ray in 2009

Whatever they were planning up til now, they need to incorporate the newly discovered missing scenes in this release. If it means delaying the BD a bit that's fine with me.

This is fantastic news!
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post #53 of 110
7/2/08 at 9:36pm

Re: Kino to bring METROPOLIS to Blu-Ray in 2009

I agree, I'll gladly wait for the definitive Metropolis BD.
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post #54 of 110
7/2/08 at 9:38pm

Re: Kino to bring METROPOLIS to Blu-Ray in 2009

Well, these elements were discovered in January and have since gone through several months of careful cataloging and prepping for restoration, to the point where they openly shared still frames of the previously lost footage for the article. Add to that the Blu-ray in the vague "2009" announcement from only 2 weeks ago, when Kino had to have known about this development, and you have what is likely the intent to release the newly restored full version in HD by the end of next year.

That's my opinion at least.
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post #55 of 110
7/3/08 at 1:16am

Re: Kino to bring METROPOLIS to Blu-Ray in 2009

The stills look low resolution and very damaged. I heard the material is 16mm only and a copy of a copy. Does anybody know details?
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post #56 of 110
7/3/08 at 2:29am

Re: Kino to bring METROPOLIS to Blu-Ray in 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michel_Hafner
The stills look low resolution and very damaged. I heard the material is 16mm only and a copy of a copy. Does anybody know details?

See post # 46 & # 51 for the official news

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post #57 of 110
7/3/08 at 4:14am

Re: Kino to bring METROPOLIS to Blu-Ray in 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewA
I agree, I'll gladly wait for the definitive Metropolis BD.


Agreed. This has become an exciting title of almost monumental proportions but it needs to be done right.
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post #58 of 110
7/3/08 at 9:41am

Re: Kino to bring METROPOLIS to Blu-Ray in 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Z.
Unfortunately Blu-ray doesn't support arbitrary framerates, I believe it's just 24p, 50i (25p via 2:2 pulldown) and 60i (30p via 2:2 pulldown). So the options are basically 24fps, 15fps (if you duplicate all frames in a 60i stream) or some type of frame interpolation/conversion which will results in ghosting and/or interlacing artifacts.
Couldn't they just do 24p and repeat every fifth frame? or 30p and repeat every even numbered frame? It would not be as smooth as native 24 fps or 30 fps material, but it would not result in ghosting or interlacing if done correctly.

Regards,
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post #59 of 110
7/3/08 at 1:51pm

Re: Kino to bring METROPOLIS to Blu-Ray in 2009

Quote:
Couldn't they just do 24p and repeat every fifth frame?
Juttertown! I don't understand why arbitrary framerates weren't made as a part of Blu-ray. Technically, it should be possible to change the refresh frequency of flat panel monitors to sync up to it as well...
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post #60 of 110
7/3/08 at 4:26pm

Re: Kino to bring METROPOLIS to Blu-Ray in 2009

Upcoming BD will have newly found/restored footage!

Clicky

All right... we've got one last post for you today, because this just couldn't wait until Monday. We've just heard back from our friends over at Kino International. The good news is that they have officially confirmed that the newly-discovered footage from Fritz Lang's original version of Metropolis (which we mentioned yesterday) WILL be a part of the forthcoming special edition Blu-ray Disc release in 2009. What's more, the new special edition will be released on standard DVD format as well on the same day. Watch for more details on this sure-to-be-amazing release in the weeks and months ahead. We think that's just about the best news we could close out the week with, don't you?

So with that, enjoy the weekend!
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