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Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic

post #1 of 34
6/17/08 at 6:53pm
Thread Starter 
I have just read the news:Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic
That's make me sick...
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post #2 of 34
6/17/08 at 7:16pm

Re: Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic

Total money grab by these companies. As the person from Cisco said, “today’s ‘bandwidth hog’ is tomorrow’s average user.”....They're just prepping for the future to justify higher prices for all.
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post #3 of 34
6/17/08 at 8:15pm

Re: Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic

You don't buy broadband to check your email and hit up a couple favorite websites. If you're paying for 2 MB download speeds, you should have a rightful expectation that you can use that bandwidth.
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post #4 of 34
6/17/08 at 9:06pm

Re: Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic

I work for a telecom company, and yes, this is coming. They figure that there's 10% of customers that use 90% of the bandwidth. I guess for people who aren't heavy users, this is preferable to having rates go up across the board. I'm not a huge bandwidth user myself, (I don't think) but I would like to know more about what the limits will be. I personally don't want to have to worry if I am exceeding. I have a cell phone plan where I probably only use 10% of my available minutes a month, but I keep just for the peace of mind of knowing I will never go over my plan.
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post #5 of 34
6/17/08 at 9:42pm

Re: Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic

I guess it's hard to argue with it in principle. Everything else we consume is pretty much charged by the amount used...gas, electric, phone, water, etc. Why not bandwidth?
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post #6 of 34
6/17/08 at 9:52pm

Re: Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic

> Why not bandwidth?

Uh, because the price of bandwidth has been dropping like a rock, for one.

And of course we pay for cable TV by the hour.
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post #7 of 34
6/18/08 at 4:23am

Re: Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic

When there is so much bandwidth that high bandwidth usage doesn't place any strain on the system, then perhaps that'll be a good argument against charging by the byte. Until then, I want fees unbundled: I want the service providers to charge the lowest possible base price, and then have everyone pay incrementally more based on how much they actually use the service. That way, I don't pay one penny more than I personally need to. Anything that costs them more to provide they should charge extra for, so I don't have to subsidize anyone else's special or excessive usage, and so I am only charged for what I personally use.
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post #8 of 34
6/18/08 at 5:33am

Re: Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic

Charging by the bit will kill off services such as online Netfilx and Apple TV and will certainly curb the use of graphics on sites such as this one. After all how many will pay for pretty pictures when they can just read the text?
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post #9 of 34
6/18/08 at 5:47am

Re: Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic

I'm a FIOS user and not only did I get a rate increase notice, but I also got a note saying that they were going to cut out all USENET groups that were not in the 'BIG 8'...
comp.*,humanities.*,misc.*,news.*,rec.*,sci.*,soc. *,talk.*
That leaves out the alt.* stuff which is loaded with binary images and I assume uses a bunch of bandwidth.
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post #10 of 34
6/18/08 at 6:59am

Re: Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic

I guess I dont' know how much I use. I download a few songs, play a few PS3 games online. No idea how much this "uses" or how much more it would cost me a month. I don't download HD movies online, or run Bit torrent full time. I think it's kind of silly personally. If you don't use a lot of bandwith, pay for DSL at 19 bucks a month. If you are spending $60 a month for cable, then they charge you when you use it? No thanks.
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post #11 of 34
6/18/08 at 8:13am

Re: Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic

If this policy is implemented by only some providers, the ones that don't will pick up a lot of customers. Also, I'd ask if this means that the base price will be cut for "light" users.
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post #12 of 34
6/18/08 at 8:40am

Re: Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic

Quote:
That leaves out the alt.* stuff which is loaded with binary images and I assume uses a bunch of bandwidth.

They didn't shut it down because of bandwidth usage. The NY Atty General was threatening legal action because a survey of the alt.binaries groups found child porn in 8 of the alt newsgroups (only 8? seems low). Verizon and some others have just opted not to deal with the legal issues by turning off access through their service to the thousands of other alt groups (which generally have copyright issues of their own).

This will likely have zero effect on the targetted problem, since it's just as easy to post illegal content to a newsgroup with a different name or switch to a USENET server outside of your ISP - but at least some lawyers made money and wielded the power of attorney.

My bandwidth usage has gone up recently because I've been watching more video podcasts through my PC and through my TiVo. If I were to add a movie streaming service in the near future then that might put me into some heavy user category. I do wonder how Comcast would differentiate the bits for me downloading content from Amazon vs me downloading bits from Comcast On-Demand. Who am I kidding? They wouldn't care - mo money either way!

Brad
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post #13 of 34
6/18/08 at 9:27am

Re: Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic

This could be the opportunity the content providers have been looking for to deter piracy. If one can find a song/movie to download for "free," he might think twice if it costs more in bandwidth charges.
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post #14 of 34
6/18/08 at 9:49am

Re: Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lew Crippen
Charging by the bit will kill off services such as online Netfilx and Apple TV
That's one of the reasons why charging by the byte is the way to go: Otherwise, broadband services end up having to carry the heavy weight of the cost of services that actually compete with them. That would be patently unfair. The only fair way to achieve net neutrality is to effect charging by byte.
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post #15 of 34
6/18/08 at 9:50am

Re: Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic

Quote:
Originally Posted by LewB
I'm a FIOS user and not only did I get a rate increase notice, but I also got a note saying that they were going to cut out all USENET groups that were not in the 'BIG 8'...
comp.*,humanities.*,misc.*,news.*,rec.*,sci.*,soc. *,talk.*
That leaves out the alt.* stuff which is loaded with binary images and I assume uses a bunch of bandwidth.
I read that some service providers have recently decided to do this because some of those other realms provide child pornography.
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post #16 of 34
6/18/08 at 9:52am

Re: Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_Tk
I guess I dont' know how much I use. I download a few songs, play a few PS3 games online. No idea how much this "uses" or how much more it would cost me a month. I don't download HD movies online, or run Bit torrent full time.
That's really the dichotomy: Most users do as you do. The only users who should see any significant increase in cost from this would be the other users, the ones who download lots of video.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_Tk
If you are spending $60 a month for cable, then they charge you when you use it?
The cost for cable has nothing to do with the cost for high-speed Internet; they're two different services.
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post #17 of 34
6/18/08 at 10:27am

Re: Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic

I meant cable modem, forgot to include that.
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post #18 of 34
6/18/08 at 10:33am

Re: Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian^K
I read that some service providers have recently decided to do this because some of those other realms provide child pornography.
I've heard that too, but it sounds like a bunch of B.S. to me. Kind of like treating a hang nail by amputating.
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post #19 of 34
6/18/08 at 10:59am

Re: Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic

This is just the thin edge of the wedge. If this practice becomes common, the companies will start lowering the thresholds at which the extra charges take place. First the "bandwidth hogs" then eventually the "average user" will see their internet bills skyrocket with usage charges.

I'll help free up telcom companies bandwidth by canceling my service if this practice becomes common. I've done it with my television service and I can do it with internet service. I'm getting sick and tired of these companies and their attitude that we serve them, instead of them serving us.

Internet service, like satellite and cable TV, is a luxury.....not a necessity. I can survive without any of these services. How long can Telcom and TV companies survive if people finally wake up and start canceling their subscriptions en mass?
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post #20 of 34
6/18/08 at 11:57am

Re: Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR
If this policy is implemented by only some providers, the ones that don't will pick up a lot of customers.
That's what I was thinking. I'd love to be the last provider not charging by the byte because they'll have tons of money from all their new subscribers.
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post #21 of 34
6/18/08 at 1:53pm

Re: Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic

I think big brother Microsoft would also have something to say when XBox live memberships start dropping off.

I would say that we in the "heavy" user group. My son lives on XBox, I have a weather web page that gets updates every 10 seconds, and my daughter loves the instant messaging. In all we have 5 computers hooked up.
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post #22 of 34
6/18/08 at 1:58pm

Re: Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic

Quote:
Originally Posted by drobbins
I think big brother Microsoft would also have something to say when XBox live memberships start dropping off.

I would say that we in the "heavy" user group. My son lives on XBox, I have a weather web page that gets updates every 10 seconds, and my daughter loves the instant messaging. In all we have 5 computers hooked up.
I don't think the weather web page and the IMs would add up to much. I think the XBox would be the main culprit.
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post #23 of 34
6/18/08 at 2:25pm

Re: Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic

Yeah, my son and I play a ton of Xbox Live. It would be interesting to see just how much bandwidth I actually use in a month.

You think all those people with unsecure wireless home networks would eventually wise-up and secure them? If not, they could be in for some shocking monthly bills.
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post #24 of 34
6/18/08 at 5:28pm

Re: Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic

With the water and electric we have meters on the house so we can check usage and if the utility company's billing dept is honest. How can you meter byte usage at the house? It would have to be in between the router and the gateway.
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post #25 of 34
6/18/08 at 6:26pm

Re: Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic

Even the XBox will be pretty low bandwidth-wise.
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post #26 of 34
6/18/08 at 10:59pm

Re: Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic

Yeah and the worst part is, not only are the charging us for going over bandwidth limits but they are still limiting our speeds with traffic shapping software.
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post #27 of 34
6/19/08 at 6:29am

Re: Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyg2
Even the XBox will be pretty low bandwidth-wise.

Unless you download free demos/videos or use the Marketplace for movie rentals. The demo for NCAA Football 09 came out today. 1.44GB.
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post #28 of 34
6/19/08 at 8:43am

Re: Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic

Quote:
Originally Posted by drobbins
I think big brother Microsoft would also have something to say when XBox live memberships start dropping off.
That could be the other side of the coin. Just a small list of companies who will lean hard on ISPs over this-

1. Microsoft
2. Apple
3. Amazon
4. Netflix
5. Google/Youtube

Today's "average user" can easily rack up 50GB+/month in transfers. If you download a couple of movies a week from any one of the services and watch a few things on Youtube, you're going to bump up against that.

I'm also a little dismayed that the bandwidth that exists today was largely paid for by investors who have ZERO to show for their investment, when all the Telecoms went belly up. These pipes were sold for pennies, if that, on the dollar, and now these same companies are looking to further bilk the end user- who may well have been investors also- on a by the minute basis.

Like Edwin, I may end up choosing the original alternative to Internet- nothing.
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post #29 of 34
6/19/08 at 3:52pm

Re: Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic

Quote:
Originally Posted by LewB
I've heard that too, but it sounds like a bunch of B.S. to me.
It isn't. Here's a link: N.Y. attorney general forces ISPs to curb Usenet access | The Iconoclast - politics, law, and technology - CNET News.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by LewB
Kind of like treating a hang nail by amputating.
Except that a finger has some utility, while alt.* newsgroups basically don't.
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post #30 of 34
6/19/08 at 3:57pm

Re: Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S
This is just the thin edge of the wedge. If this practice becomes common, the companies will start lowering the thresholds at which the extra charges take place.
The alternative is to charge us all a little more, to account for the additional value heavy users derive from the service. How is that better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S
First the "bandwidth hogs" then eventually the "average user" will see their internet bills skyrocket with usage charges.
Overall rates will go up no matter what. How the pricing gets allocated between heavy users and light users isn't going to affect the overall aggregate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S
I'm getting sick and tired of these companies and their attitude that we serve them, instead of them serving us.
I think this is a misunderstanding. Rather, the companies offer service for a price, that price related to the value derived from the service.
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