The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews - Page 32  

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

As lazy as CBS were with this, you'd think they could've at least kept all of Rugolo's music intact (as it should've been obvious to them that it's not part of the Capitol library and should've been quite easy to identify, as most, if not all, of his cues contain the Fugitive theme), and just replaced the library cues. Although fans would've probably still been upset, I don't imagine there'd have been quite the backlash that there's been (for the record: I don't like that they've changed the music, either).

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

This is precisely what drives me nuts as much as Rugolo's cues being replaced. Whether for film or tv, music scoring over the last decade or so has been performed in a rather insulting and pompous manner in order to inform the viewer when to feel sad, happy, terrified, etc.

Let's face it, subtlety is a lost art. Watching a tv drama that was scored by the likes of Pete Rugolo, Fred Steiner, Dominic Frontiere, Morton Stevens and others, one is struck by how well they "spotted" the drama, that is to say, having the foresight to know when a scene would benefit from music and when it would benefit from none at all. But then, back in the day we realized that 'less is more'. No longer.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Well said, my good friend. Very well said.

While I wouldn't have been happy with a FUGITIVE release where those few Capitol cues had been rescored, it certainly would have been the better choice over rescoring all the background music.

Gary "truly a sad situation - easily the most disheartening TV on DVD problem I've ever encountered in my years of collecting" O.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Gary, how would you like to have been a museum curator, bring forth a sculpture by a too long neglected artist from the hidden recesses of some old vault, proudly bring it out in the light, only to clumsily trip and witness its obliteration into a million tiny pieces? (Come to think of it, that would at least be only an accident. Maybe it's more like prior to display, thinking what it needs is a nice coat of spray paint).

I know I'm stacking the deck here, but you see the lunacy of it all. Paramount had what is regarded as one of the greatest tv dramas and emasculated it to extent that the only way to make amends is to immediately correct this set by restoring the original elements, save for a few very minor music cues. But I'm certain Paramount will again blunder, release vol. 2 with rescored music...and drive still more fans away.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Agreed Michael. The only difference being that in your hypothetical story the curator "accidentally" trips and ruins the beautiful sculpture. That would be highly embarrassing and if I were the one to do it I'd feel horrible and sick to my stomach. But with CBS/Paramount - what they did was NOT on accident. It was done purposely! And that makes it all the worse. Not only done purposely, but done when another route could have been taken and the majority, if not all, of the cues could have been preserved. They took the "easy" way out and demolished a great piece of art. No doubt the FUGITIVE was art. But the point is they did it on purpose, instead of going the extra mile to fix the problem they ran into with the cue sheets. And it could have been fixed by all accounts.

I agree with you that the only way CBS/P can salvage any good will at this point is by re-issuing Season 2, Vol. 1 in a corrected state. But they are almost assuredly not going to do that. I still look for them to slip Season 2, Vol. 2 under the radar with rescored music as well. Surely they had it slated for a November or December release. But now we might not see it till next year - if at all, after all the bad press they deservedly received.

Gary "what a shame" O.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Great posts, all. After reading the latest few posts, I agree. I was never happy about any music replacekment (not in any release but particularly this one). Being a 1st-time viewer and having a family member that prefers the studio (video) release to any "other" sets, I was somewhat caught in the middle on this issue so I did buy S2V1 but won't get any further CBS/P releases of the show (assuming that it's the subbed score or nothing more from CBS/P). Since I was hooked on ths show early I had no choice but to do the "unspeakable" (you all know what I mean). So I'll watch the S2V1 with the family member and I'm covered for the series as well.



Ain't it the truth!

Andy, 100% agree. I'd bet anything that if they'd done that, it would have been far less an issue.


Ditto what Gary said, Mike. When Mom and I watch this show, the first thing she said was "They don't make them like this anymore" (where the drama is given time to unfold at the pace as was intended in the story).



Right. I remember thinking the same thing when watching the "..Chariot" episode from the S2V1 set.


Says it all for us, Gary. A precedent that is still hard to believe it happened.

The only diffucult part for me was to get used to the idea that, if the CBS/P release continue, to do without the studio transfer Q. That is usually a criteria for me with TV/DVD that's #1 along with unedited episodes.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I forgot to ask you all this one: What's your guess on what CBS/P will do with this show's releases? Will they complete S2 and then fold the game? Or have they previously re-mastered up to S3 and will release all of the shows that have been "music-subb'ed"? I seem to remember someone here posting info about how much of the series has already been prepped for DVD/remastered but I don't recall the info right now.

My guess on it is that we'll see S2V2 and then the series will go into the "Black Hole" of adandoned shows. But maybe that's the wrong guess considering it's CBS/P. What's their track record of completing shows?

My one fantasy dream about TV/DVD is that we could see a communication vehicle of some kind emerge where the studios and the 'net-based consumers could interact and send/receive feedback about upcoming series releases. It would have been interesting to see the possible results of the Fugitive S2V1 release if there had existed some kind of dialog regardng the Capitol Music Cue issues before any production decisions were made at CBS/P. As mentioned earlier, the knowledge base for this show is considerably vast given that we're talking about a 40+ year old show.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

It's hard to predict what they'll do, but I agree that they'll probably slide a S2V2 release out under cover of darkness and then abandon the series.

From their point of view, it's probably preferable to let the series rot in the vault rather than risk further ire from the rabid fans and the ensuing bad press that results.

As for what the reaction to selective replacing would have been, I think there might have been considerable backlash from many of the same folks who are currently upset. That's assuming that they released it quietly with the Rugolo cues only changing everything else. Some fans would still be upset, and still make noise.

Now, had they announced upfront what the deal was - that THE FUGITIVE SEASON TWO VOLUME 1 could only be released in that altered fashion, otherwise no release, I bet most fans would have accepted the proposal.

I doubt that very many would accept what was ulitmately done to the series even if they HAD been upfront about it.

Harry

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

The Paramount syndication bible says only the first two seasons have been transferred to HD, but that was as of 3/06/08. To quote:

"This series has been partially transferred into HD and has the following masters:

Network 4x3 HD (Seasons 1 & 2, 60 episodes total)"

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I think that Paramount will abandon the series due to what I can only imagine were low sales on S2 V1 (eventhough they've already spent the money to rescore the second half of S2). On the plus side, they know exactly why there was low sales so they know what they need to do to get a good chunk of fans back for S2 V2.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I'm 50/50 on whether or not they release the 2nd volume of Season Two. Since they've already gone to all the trouble of rescoring the entire season, it's hard for me to believe they'd just leave it sit. Having said that, they could abandon it right where it is just to avoid another onslaught of negative publicity. Really tough call as to what they will do next. What I am reasonably sure of is that we would have already heard a release date (most likely for November or December) had they not been bombarded with negative reaction. But now they've clearly had to duck behind the podium and rethink things while the tomatoes fly.

I seriously, seriously doubt we will see anything beyond the 2nd Season. IF they release the second volume - a big "if" - they surely won't go any further unless they rectify the situation and do it right. It would be suicide for them to keep issuing the same subbed music episodes. Therefore, unless we see something akin to a miracle where CBS turns around and does the right thing, I don't think we will see the final two seasons of the show on dvd.

Gary "they should have spent the time and energy needed to identify the scant few music cues in question and only subbed those out (if even that was necessary, because I'm not sure it would have been) - leaving the vast majority of the back music intact" O.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

While I am unhappy with the rescoring, I can't see how S2V2 could drive any MORE fans away than have been lost with S2V1.

Nor do I see any reason for CBS to release S2V2 "stealth." It certainly won't escape our collective eyes.

They would also be foolish to waste the big bucks already spent rescoring by not releasing the rest of the second season on DVD.

The only slight glimmer of hope I see in The Fugitive missing from their recently announced Q4 release schedule is some behind-the-scenes discussion about "what to do next?" Could they be asking, "Fix the music or dump the show?"

Or being MIA may already mean DOA.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

This whole idea of a "stealth" release, I must say, kind of amuses me.

And it's not unique to this discussion. Over on one of the Muppet forums, some people who are peeved that Lionsgate/HIT have decided to release Fraggle Rock - The Complete Series this November, without a separate release at the same time of the 4th and final (production) season, seem to have the same idea that a separate Season 4 set will be "snuck" onto the market without any hoo-hah to draw attention to it.

Uhhhh...yeah. In order to sell it on store shelves, they have to tell the retailers that it's coming. And the vast majority of the stories I post at TVShowsOnDVD come from info being sent to retailers. In some cases it is where the studio sends the same info to press and retailers all in one shot (in which case it's not just TSoD, but all DVD news sites - as well as non-web media - that gets the info at the same time the sellers get it). In other cases the studio sends it to the retailers separately from their announcement to the press, but they send it to the retailers earlier, and my retail friends (many of them; I just *love* these guys and gals!) promptly forward the info to me.

Either way, it amounts to the same thing: they can't "sneak" it onto store shelves. Somehow, some way, the word's gonna get out. It would be REALLY hard to just pop onto store shelves...and it would probably have to be exclusive to one retail chain (that I don't have friends at) in order to get completely under the radar. But then it would be big news the day it showed up, in any case...possibly even bigger news because of the secrecy. So what would be the point?

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

David, thanks for that info. I can only speak for myself, but I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought CBS/P could just "magically" make the release show up on store shelves overnight without word getting out. All I was thinking was that perhaps, just perhaps, CBS/P wouldn't forward word to you guys in the press in their normal time frame, but would instead opt for a more low key release. I don't know, it was just a thought. But you know the ins and outs of that part better than us, so if it's that unreasonable an assumption I certainly will not mention it again.

I will stand by my original thoughts that had things been fine with the S2, V1 release (no fan backlash and bad pub) then I'm confident we would have heard about the next release by now. I have to believe it would have been announced for November or early December. I guess they could still get it in before the end of the year without any problem, but based on what CBS/P has announced already for Nov/Dec - the next release of THE FUGITIVE is truly on the run.

Gary "I'd be interested to hear your thoughts about what CBS/P will do with the rest of the series, David - understanding that it would be just your informed guesses" O.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I personally think that even CBS/Par has no idea yet what they are going to do about a S2V2 release. If they DO know what they're gonna do, they ain't sayin'.

And why would they? It's either gonna be just a normal "we're announcing a dozen TV-DVDs on any given Monday, and this just happens to be one title in the bunch" ...or else it's gonna be "hey, it never showed up for release, just like we haven't seen the final season of Mork & Mindy yet". Shrug. No telling which it will be until something happens, or (eventually) doesn't happen.

As far as it goes, they just dump that info out there for the press folk like me to see. How big or little we publicize it is up to us. I'll never give Kenny Vs. Spenny the same level of publicity that I give Star Trek or 90210, y'know? Fugitive falls somewhere in between...but on the higher end of that scale, naturally, since I have WAAAY more readers interested in that than I do in KvS.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Thanks David. I appreciate your perspective and would have to agree with you. I think they are probably sitting on it for right now, trying to figure out what to do.

Gary "thanks again, Dave - you and Gord are much appreciated for what you have said and done thus far in relation to the entire debacle" O.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Season 2 came out as a complete package from their Australian division, so I see no reason why it would be foolish to hope for all of season 2 in one package over here, though before S2 was announced over there, I got the feeling they'd split it up so that all Invaders sets would have roughly the same number of episodes, and price them all about the same.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

In my highly biased opinion, what I would do now (if I were a Paramount executive with the ability to make such decisions) is to give serious consideration to releasing "The Fugitive" as a complete series set, to include at least some basic extras that DavidVP and others have been clamoring for.

Paramount would of course have to correct S2 and absolutely assure potential customers that any alterations to the soundtrack in the series set is minimal at worst, involving a scant number of Capitol music cues. Granted the studio would be eating the costs incurred originally in rescoring S2, but at least some of this would be recovered by "Fugitive" fans having to partially double-dip.

I admit this is not something I'd do for every vintage series that strikes my fancy, but I would purchase an entire series set for "The Fugitive" in which all seasons were accorded the same care as S1 just as quickly as I can pull my wallet out. As much heartache as I've endured over this ordeal, oh yeah...no problem. Paramount could release it for around $249.00 which is line with the $29.00 price tag of each half season. I have a feeling most of us posting in this thread would be very pleased at the prospect of getting it all complete right now rather than having to face potential abandonment of the series now or sometime down the road due to such things as a potentially worsening economy, de-emphasis of the SD-DVD format, some hot-shot stepping in with a "bright idea" about how to handle S4, etc.

I say if Fox can do this with "Land of the Giants", Paramount should have enough faith in "Fugitive" fans coming to bat at purchase time. The large number of reviews on Amazon, to say nothing of the high profile articles written by Jon Burlingame is a testament to how well "The Fugitive" is coveted by a large body of fans. Not quite on par with the "Trekkie" phenomenon, but IMO good enough.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I don't know. Your proposal would seem to be a fair compromise for the fans on this board (I'd be willing to double dip to get the whole series done right); but I'm not sure how well a box set in that price range would sell generally. That's a pretty thick wad of bills to cough up for a show you may only be mildly interested in.

And would they really correct S2, or just say - here's the deal, buy them all and get the good with the bad?

I think the best we could hope for is that they just return to sanity for S3. And I'm not holding my breath for that to happen either.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

True, but then it's been done a few times just the same with "The Man from U.N.C.L.E.", "Get Smart" and "Land of the Giants". Also "Star Trek" TOS selling for nearly $100 a season, after, no less, it had already been released in some 40 separate sets. Maybe it could be done for $199--I'm just throwing out a figure.

There are casual fans of "The Fugitive"...? I suppose it's possible.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I'd be in agreement with that idea, Michael. I'd say the $199 MSRP would be a better starting point, hopefully bringing the actual price we'd pay down to somewhere between $125 to $150. And I'd certainly snatch it up if the music was done correctly. We'll have to wait and see.

Gary "the bottom line is that the vast majority of the original backscore has got to be restored in order for me to purchase" O.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

CBS/Paramount has been releasing one season a year for a number of their vintage shows, like Perry Mason, Rawhide, Untouchables. Maybe the Invaders falls into that category. There are only 2 seasons; why fast track it? I wouldn't be surpised if they tried to do a split-season release for the second year and spread it out over a 6 month period.

They have taken a break with certain series and come back to it later. Cheers is the prime example; two years between Season 8 and 9. I really hope they don't abandon the Fugitive; maybe they can just take a break with it, and come back in a year or so with the originally music scores mostly restored.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Mike,

Great post (#951). I agree. Gary, that makes 3 of us. I'd buy a complete restored set the day it's available for this series. It's another reason I wish we here represented a larger % of the TV/DVD consumers. Since we don't, the only thing I'd be concerned about is what was mentioned earlier. The price tag of a complete set might limit the # of sales. I wonder how many Fugitive Fanatics are out there that don't surf the 'net?

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

It's occured to me that this release has so soured me on TV on DVD, that I haven't bothered to even log in here in weeks, let alone buy any other series.

Thanks Paramount.

Harry

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I was wondering myself what had happened to you. In the past I've enjoyed reading your posts on vintage tv music, the IA shows, OL and of course those for "Fugitive".

I've also been feeling disinterested in classic tv/dvd for sometime myself and it took Universal's superb handling of S2 of "Night Gallery" to get me out of the doldrums a bit.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I has'nt me, I mean it stinks that this had to have happened, but it definately not going to stop me from picking up anymore Odd Couples, Hawaii Five o, Gunsmoke etc. Also the stories on S2 of the Fugitive were so compelling I enjoyed them despite the Music re-do.