The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews - Page 30  

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

But will Deep Discount take it back now that you've opened it? Figured they were like most retailers and would only offer an "exact exchange" for DVDs that have been opened.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Guess it is a visit to Movie Stop for store credit. Just cannot stand to have that trash at home. Wish I had not been so eager to cash in on the sale before learning of what Paramount had done.

Doug

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I have already done so. Thanks for reminding any other fresh faces to this thread.

Doug

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Has anyone gotten even a hint from CBS/Paramount that they are even aware of the size of the backlash on The Fugitive? Other than their weak press release some weeks ago, of course. Just curious.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

If so, they will have very poor sales figures. Maybe if they lose enough money...; no, they will just cancel the remainder of the series. Probably the best news if they won't secure the rights to the correct music.

Doug

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I bought the Nu Ventures tapes too, and I urge every fan to do the same thing. They're available at good prices on eBay and Amazon sellers, etc. I think Nu Ventures did a good job of selecting a lot of the most memorable episodes, so you'll have a worthy collection. Not only is the music intact (absolutely essential for me), you get neat intros from Barry Morse as well (who would've thought VHS tapes would have better elements/extras than DVDs?).

On another note, I also absolutely hated the artwork that CBS/Paramount came up with....no proper "Fugitive" logo, no Gerard, etc. (giving us instead the ridiculous image of a dark-haired Kimble running from the wrecked train with a suitcase, etc.....Bah!)
I made my own covers incorporating the Nu Ventures VHS image that properly shows the logo, Gerard, and, I think, "feel" of the show.

Again, I urge everyone to boycott the latest CBS/Paramount DVDs. Thanks to VHS and syndication (and other sources), you can build a better mousetrap!

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Well, though rare, this certainly isn't the first time:

Dark Shadows (1991): The DVD set is in the wrong aspect ratio (the original 4:3 image is cropped to widescreen), most of the "day for night" shots are rendered incorrectly (making it look like the vampire is moving about in the daylight) and zero extras. the MPI VHS tapes are in the original aspect ratio, the day-for-night shooting is presented as intended, episodes 2 and 3 are in their originally-intended hour-long editions (rather than the combined 'movie-version' that was on the broadcast, and the DVD) and also, the pilot movie on the VHS contains several scene extensions/new scenes incorporated back into the story. This bonus footage isn't even presented as "deleted scenes" on the DVD.

Dark Shadows (1960s): The DVD authoring house removed several 'bloopers', and edited other footage out where there were master tape glitches, to the anger of dedicated fans (and without the knowledge of MPI). The fans didn't want anything edited out: the in-show bloopers added to the 'charm' of the show, and the fans argued that they'd rather not have a dialogue scene trimmed just because there were some tape glitches (like dropouts, quad banding, etc) on the masters. Better to have the dialouge with somewhat less-than-perfect picture than not at all.

V and V: The Final Battle: The DVDs to both of these mini-series are presented in a matted (cropped) widescreen ratio. The VHS (and laser) releases are in the original full-frame TV aspect ratio.

Tales from the Crypt (seasons 1 and 2): for DVD, the opening credits sequences are edited out from every episode (at the series producers' request, them thinking the sequence as 'unnecessary'). Although not every season 1-2 show came out on VHS (as far as I remember), they at least weren't shorn of the original opening. There were apparently enough complaints that the opening was left intact beginning with the season 3 release.

Soap and Wonder Woman: A small handful of episodes from both shows came out in edited syndication versions on the DVDs, despite having previously being released uncut on the previous 'subscription' VHS releases from Columbia House/reTV. Likely, a case of the wrong masters being used and no-one catching the mistake.

Monty Python's Flying Circus: A&E made several mistakes with their DVD release of this show, with a handful of episodes containing edits (and censoring) to them, episodes which were previously issued uncut on VHS by Paramount.

(Region 2)
The Six Million Dollar Man: On the DVD set, all three of the original pilot movies are presented in their 2-part 'syndication' versions, which apart from dispensing with the original title sequences, also means the loss of actual story footage, due to making edits to fit in the "scenes from last week" and extra opening/closing for the 'part 2' for each. On the original PAL VHS releases, the first two pilot movies were released in their original TV movie format.

What's so distressing about many of the "edited episodes" goof ups is that nearly all of these problems could be avoided if the DVD companies would use 'fan/consultants' to help identify if they were given uncut masters for the episodes. For many shows (particularly one with the dedicated fan base that Python has), they could probably have secured the services of a knowledgeable fan/consultant who wouldn't even have expected to be paid.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

But don't forget to continue to support the excellently executed Season 1 DVDs. While I haven't touched the Season 2 Vol.1 DVDs, I've purchased two copies each of the Season 1 Volumes. These represent classic "TV on DVD" the way it always *should* be (Video remastered from the original, uncut, negatives; restored audio with minimal music replacement.)

I think that's why the Season 2 Volume 1 sets were so shockingly disappointing. Season 1 was done *right* - and garnered *huge* praise among the fans. And then, without warning, Season 2 is released with all of the background music replaced. I can't think of any other "Classic TV on DVD" release that started out so promising, only to turn so bad so quickly.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Andy,

Correct. I'm so pleased that I don't discard any VHS tapes from any series. I treasure my 254 vols. of Dark Shadows (1966-1971) series (vols. 1-54 of The Collector's Series and vols. 1-200 of The Original Series) for the reasons you stated and for others (aesthetic, archival, etc.).

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

It's really interesting to see all the other vintage CBS/Paramount dvd series getting release date news for December. We all know good and well that we should have heard something by now, even if just in rumor stage, about a December release for Volume 2 of the 2nd Season. If I had to wager a bet I'd say CBS/Paramount will release the news with as little fanfare as possible. I'm sure they will release it in December, and I'm all but equally sure they will use the subbed music again, but I'm betting they really try to "slip it in under the radar", so to speak. Oh, and just so I'm not misunderstood, I'm not suggesting that Dave & Gord or any other news outlet would hold out the announcement or anything like that. They seem to be just as disturbed as we are at the entire debacle, as evidenced by Gord's editorial. I'm saying that CBS/Paramount themselves might hold the release date back from news sites just to keep from having to deal with another onslaught of angry fans as long as possible. Or perhaps they are rethinking the entire thing or pushing the release date further back than originally planned to see if the waters calm down some. But I'm sure the original plans were for another FUGITIVE release before the year was out. You can pretty much take that to the bank. The show looked to be on a fast track and now we are hearing nothing...

At this point, I'd say the best we could hope for is a restoration of the original score for Seasons 3 & 4 (if they don't abandon the series altogether that is - which I fear could very well happen). Maybe, just maybe, if they did that they'd go back and redo Season 2 the correct way in a "Complete" boxed set. That's probably the best we can hope for, and even that would seem to be a long shot.

Gary "I agree with the sentiments that this has gone from being the best to worse dvd release I could ever imagine" O.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Gary, interesting point about the release sch & CBS/P with the Fugitive.

You were right....I mis-read "rescored" for "restored" last week It must have been a "Freudian" mental suggestion reading that post for "restored".

As for the S2V1 studio set, I decided to buy that set since I'm watching the show with a family member (Mom) for the 1st time and Mom wanted the studio picture Q for the S2V1 set. I'm in the process of doing some comparisons myself, using the S2V1 set vs 3 "other" sources for this show. At first, I thought I'd be going with the studio releases due to video Q, assuming that the releases will continue. However, the more I do the same-episode comparisons, I see more & more what you all have been saying regarding the sub'ed music vs the original score. It (orig) was certainly made for the show and it's a near-perfect mating, IMO. The only reason the choice is somewhat difficult for me (studio video vs "other" sources) is that, as you all know, the studio restoration/transfers are excellent quality.

If the studio releases continue with the sub'ed music, right now, I'd have to go with the "alternate" source set.

I started to do a comparison using the "World's End" episode last weekend. The thing is, I haven't previously seen the episode so it's an interesting way to compare sets.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

To be fair, in the case of V (haven't watched THE FINAL BATTLE on DVD yet), Kenneth Johnson addresses this on the commentary, and says he shot V in 1.85 in anticipation of an overseas theatrical release. I don't think it is cropped at all, just opened up on the sides.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Why was the music changed on The Fugitive? There are finally some answers!

The Fugitive DVD news: Explanation for the Music Changes on The Fugitive - Season 2, Vol. 1 | TVShowsOnDVD.com

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

And it's exactly what some of us said from the beginning - and lambasted for it by at least a few people. The stupidity of this is so mind-boggling and so indicative of how lawyers now rule the studios. It would have been so easy to reach out and get the information they needed. And now it's too late, because they will simply not own up to their folly, apologize, and do the right thing. The lawyers who are responsible, and the executives who allowed it should be ashamed of themselves.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Yep, you are exactly right about all of that Billy. I knew when that first article from Variety came out and mentioned the few Capitol cues being the source of the problem that it was something that could have been rectified if only CBS/Par. had gone to a little bit of trouble by finding the right people to identify cues. I knew it was not an insurmountable problem. I knew it!!!

Thanks to Dave and Gord for linking that article. And thanks to the writer for ferreting everything out for us. Nice to have confirmation of what some of us had figured out early on.

Gary "glad for the info - but more furious than ever at CBS/Paramount" O.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

The FMS article is excellent David...and pretty much indicates the CBS door has slammed shut on any hope of a "restoration" of the original music. Plus, it casts serious doubt on any future DVD releases of Seasons 3 and 4 of The Fugitive.

I'd not wish to bet the farm on ever seeing The Fugitive S2V2 on CBS DVD either. Although, I'm sure the remaining S2 episodes are in the can, all 'rescored' and ready to duplicate in Mexico.

Judging from the mention that other TV shows fall under this cloud of music ownership rights, I'd bet that farm that this is the reason we have never seen the remaining seasons of HAVE GUN WILL TRAVEL.

What a mess.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Ditto....thanks to Gord & Dave for digging into this one for us.

Well, you guys called it here on the forum. Gary, recalling our phone convo's....you were right. I admit to having tried to give CBS/P the benefit of the doubt on this one. Never again. No more Fugitive releases for me from them. Thank goodness that I have friends out there so that I'll be able to enjoy the remainder of the series as a first-time viewer with all original music intact.

Jeff "I never forget friends...you guys know who you are" W.

[edit] An OT here but revelant, I think, to the issue with this & many other shows tied up in litigation. Until/unless the root cause is made more logical in the U.S. regarding copyright/clearance issues, problems like this will remain. I wonder what the differences are overseas with clearance/distribution rights? Apparently, it's considerably more logical than here in the states, where most of these shows were created. Ironic. If only this show was co-released in R2/4 land....

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Carab, you hit it dead-center. There are a lot of genuine experts of a show such as this one but I know from first-hand knowledge that it's easier to climb Mt Everest than get a major studio to ask for help from an "outsider" for say, an accurate cover art of an upcoming release that depicts a picture or scene from a season of a show, etc., for no charge. Instead, I've seen a studio reject or ignore sincere efforts at contributions to their products. Sad. I'd guess that its for similar legal reasons. Everyone nowadays is afraid to do anything with the "legal/sue-crazy" society we're residing in especially during the past 20-3o years.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Theres still one thing I dont get.

Was there any Capitol cues used in Season 1? And if so why was it Ok for season one but not 2? That's what I dont get. Because if season 1 has Capitol Cues, shouldn't it be pulled from the shelves?

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Jeff, I think it's more than acceptable to have given CBS/P the benefit of the doubt at the time. Studios would normally want to do the right thing that would benefit their company the most, and the logical conclusion in this case is that CBS/P would NOT have taken the extreme steps they did unless it was really necessary. I think the only thing that really tipped me in the other direction, in this case, was their utter lack of a legit response under the heat of angry protests during the first couple of weeks after the original release. They just didn't seem to want to deal with the situation, and that smacked of them being more at fault than them being "handcuffed" or "held hostage" by insurmountable legalities. I just got the impression that they took the easier way out - and it appears that's just what they did. But that's not to say that your point about endless legalities in this country isn't also a very valid issue. It definitely is, as we can see from releases of a show like "HAPPY DAYS" in R1 versus R2.

I don't want to be a hardened skeptic about the studios. I want to believe they try their best. But it's getting harder and harder all the time. And this info definitely makes me feel just like you do about CBS/P at this point. They did NOT act as the proudly self-proclaimed "Putting Classic TV on a Pedestal" ad said. They did NOT go the extra mile to put THE FUGITIVE on a pedestal. They took the easier road and alienated a lot of fans.

Gary "like you, Jeff, I too am glad there are other sources for this all-time great series" O.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I think you're right. The old saying "Where there's a will, there's a way" has a lot of truth to it. My cousin climbed the real Mt Everest twice and I know that he did it partially with sheer will. Of course, since he was a world-famous climber, that helped No kidding.

Paul, I'd guess that they "discovered" the potential legal jeopardy thing after S1 was released. As to the possibility of pulling the S1 units, who knows....maybe that's possible to happen. Maybe I need to buy a backup

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Well for me the most despicable thing is altering the end credits. That's just insane.

If they have to, go ahead and add a new title screen for the modern credits but defacing the origianl end credits is just wrong in alot of levels. In effect they have "DE-CREDITED" Peter Rugolo’s original contribution to the show. He did more than just the "theme". It's like stealing someone’s gold bracelet, carving a new inscription and then giving it back. It's pretty obvious the old black and white credits are supposed to represent the original staff of the show.

I know this is kind of of stretching it but… if a credit sequence has a copyright year of 1964, isn’t it required for them to accurately and legally reflect the staff that worked for the show in that year?

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Until a large legion of fans rise up and start lobbying for less insane copyright laws we will never see a decent release (with any music in it) hit the shelves.