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The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews - Page 26  

post #751 of 1043
7/4/08 at 4:40pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carabimero
I guess all we're left with is source credibility. And why not? An argument could be made for believing a CBS spokesperson over a reporter from Variety. Having said that, an argument could be made for believing a Variety reporter over, say, me for example, especially if I constantly repeated myself in posts, or incessantly tried to "one-up" other posters or felt compelled to continually clarify their posts, or if I came into a thread having never seen the show or the modifications made to it and presumed to discuss them with authority.

The great thing about a message board is that, over time, the sum of a person's posts eventually speaks for itself.

Thank you for saying it. I'm not responding to him. I received a very nice PM warning me about this guy - apparently this is his M.O.

However, just to reiterate, no composer of TV music EVER retained rights to the use of his music in that show. EVER. It's not a guess, it's not a supposition - work for hire is very simple - no rights except the writer's share of the royalties. I'm not the one guessing - I called ASCAP and spoke to an acquaintance there just to reiterate and make certain I wasn't losing my sanity to some guy who just comes on and posts the same thing over and over and over without any knowledge whatsoever. This poster didn't even know what Unart was - he thought it might be Rugolo's publishing company and he didn't know Capitol had a production music library of underscoring cues. He's never seen the show, but on and on he posts. But it obviously gives him pleasure to bleat out the same line. As you say, over time, the sum of a person's posts speaks for itself. Time is the great leveler.
post #752 of 1043
7/4/08 at 6:57pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

The set has been getting a lot of five-star reviews on Amazon. I had a hard time believing at first that CBS/Paramount would care enough to try and inflate the rating with bogus reviews, and I still don't believe they're behind every one one of them (if any at all), but it's gone from barely over 1 star to now 2 full stars in only a matter of hours. Something's up.
post #753 of 1043
7/5/08 at 7:16am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyFeldman
...As you say, over time, the sum of a person's posts speaks for itself. Time is the great leveler.

Bravo!
post #754 of 1043
7/5/08 at 2:04pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdee28
The Carson estate has donated most, if not all, of the existing tapes to the Museum of TV & Radio, now the Paley Center for Media, in NY/LA. Anybody can go there and watch any of the episodes from 1973-1991. Apparently, they only saved shows hosted by Carson though; ones with guest hosts are lost to time.

Although the Carson estate might have donated shows with Johnny only, you are incorrect about the ones with guest hosts being "lost to time", if you are implying that they somehow went missing. The Carson archive retained everything from 1973 forward, including the segments with guest hosts. They were even among the shows that the archive offered up for sale to individuals (at $75-100 a pop).

In total agreement with everyone, though, that Carson's heirs have been totally lazy/clueless about exploiting Johnny's archive, but since there was very little exploitation of it even when Johnny was still with us, perhaps it was his wish to only put out what's already available (the "hand-selected" set of clips).

I think a rerun package of old Tonight Shows would be good for a retro network like Goodlife or RTN (or TV Land if they even cared at this point, which I doubt).
post #755 of 1043
7/5/08 at 5:25pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

When they were offering dubbed VHS copies of individual shows at $100 a pop, I e-mailed the Carson archive asking about episodes guest hosted by Richard Dawson and McLean Stevenson from the 70s, and the response was that they did not have those shows.
post #756 of 1043
7/5/08 at 10:25pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I know I may be kidding myself, but I am still hoping for the people at Paramount to see from the backlash that The Fugitive is a strong series and a positive money maker for them and they go back and redo the messed up Season Two Volume One.
post #757 of 1043
7/5/08 at 11:39pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I think their ego has them now and they're not gonna back down, fans be damned.

(How dearly I would love to eat those words.)
post #758 of 1043
7/6/08 at 7:10am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carabimero
I think their ego has them now and they're not gonna back down, fans be damned. (How dearly I would love to eat those words.)

I suspect you're right, but, like you, I'd be happy to be wrong.

Since no further comments seem to be forthcoming from the friendly folks at CBS/Paramount, I think the big test will be when (and if), they put out Part 2 of Season 2. Are they gonna be stubborn/crazy enough to continue with the replaced soundtrack?
post #759 of 1043
7/6/08 at 1:36pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

John, in using the word "ego," I meant to suggest that yes, they will (with altered music). The transfers have already been done, as has the music.

We'll see.
post #760 of 1043
7/6/08 at 4:57pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carabimero
John, in using the word "ego," I meant to suggest that yes, they will (with altered music). The transfers have already been done, as has the music. We'll see.

Thanks, David. I thought you were just referring to Part 1 of Season 2.
I suppose there are some people who don't belong to forums like this or check out amazon.com and are blissfully unaware of what's going on, but CBS/Paramount is sure getting some bad feedback among DVD aficionados! To me, putting out an altered Season 2, Part 2 borders on masochism. But like you say, we'll see. It will certainly be interesting!
post #761 of 1043
7/6/08 at 5:44pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

To expect logic after what they did is, perhaps, illogical. Especially since they themselves never said the five or six cues supposedly in question were themselves legally off limits. That's what makes it so maddening. They didn't have to change Rugolo. Period. And to use their own word, it is "questionable" as to whether they even had to change the alleged six cues.

And yet they changed EVERYTHING.

It's sheer nuts.

And it's driven me nuts to the point that I just bought the Nu Ventures videos and plan to transfer them to DVD. They are, at least, complete and unaltered and better quality than my broadcast copies. And Macrovision, if used, is not an encryption, so I won't be violating the DMCA by transferring them from VHS to DVD.
post #762 of 1043
7/6/08 at 10:01pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Well, I know I am going out on a limb here but I am hoping, praying, that the silence that we are receiving from Paramount/CBS is because they are looking into the complaints and are planning on fixing the issue and offer us fans a replacement deal. I know on the Andy Griffith show they left out some laugh tracks by mistake. The fans complained and they fixed the DVD's and offered replacements by mail order. I know it is by far a different issue but like I said, I am hoping, praying......
post #763 of 1043
7/6/08 at 11:10pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I hope you're right. I was counting on their press statement to give me something to construct optimism around.

There was nothing but insincerity there for me.

Do it fast or do it right? I think we have our answer.
post #764 of 1043
7/7/08 at 5:44am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Doesnt it just suck that we have to resort to copying VHS tapes and using whatever other means we have to to get our Fuge fix? I still cant believe this...
post #765 of 1043
7/7/08 at 6:40am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

David,

I doubt very much you're going to violate any laws by copying your NuVentures VHS tapes of "The Fugitive" to DVD. Under Fair Use, you can make any copies you want for your own personal use. What you can't do is give any copies to anyone else. That would be violation of copyright law, unless you give that person ALL your copies including the original, with you retaining nothing.

I doubt that I'd be able to find the time, but I've toyed with using my video editing program (Pinnacle Studio) to remove the audio track from the Paramount DVDs and replace it with the NuVentures audio. That would be some serious work, but it just might be worth the trouble.
post #766 of 1043
7/7/08 at 6:49am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdee28
When they were offering dubbed VHS copies of individual shows at $100 a pop, I e-mailed the Carson archive asking about episodes guest hosted by Richard Dawson and McLean Stevenson from the 70s, and the response was that they did not have those shows.


I think what you're referring to it that they were claiming those were "not available", not that they don't exist in the archive. What they meant in those cases, I think, was that they couldn't clear those episodes. You see, after you picked out an episode, they not only had to pull the tape from the archive, but they had to obtain clearances.

I certainly remember a disclaimer on the website saying that some episodes may be unavailable due to legal/clearances reasons.

When I did my own custom order, they originally wrote me back and told me they one of the episodes was unavailable/unclearable. When I wrote them back, I said if you can't make this episode available, then cancel my whole order. In a day or two, they wrote back saying everything was sorted out and it was available.

I know other collectors who have gotten "guest host" episodes from the Carson archive, and clips from certain ones have been seen in recent years (a sizeable clip from one where Bob Newhart guest-hosted, when Don Rickels broke something on Johnny's desk, was shown for a Newhart appearance on Letterman in the past few years).
post #767 of 1043
7/7/08 at 1:24pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Actually, under the DMCA, it is no longer legal to make archival backups if you have to break an encryption to do it.

Rick, I am looking into doing that for ESCAPE INTO BLACK and NEMESIS.
post #768 of 1043
7/7/08 at 2:27pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Who said anything about hacking encryption codes? I haven't found a case yet (granted, my sample is only about 10) where I haven't been able to bring a copy-protected VHS or DVD into my computer via plain old composite video i.e. the old-fashioned analog way.

When I transferred my commercial VHS tapes to DVD direct from S-VHS output to a Toshiba DVD recorder, several would not go. I got the "copying forbidden" notice. Every single one, though, went fine via analog composite video into my computer. Then I just burned the DVD and mission accomplished. You can't rip it; you have to hook up and play it back just as if you were making a VHS to VHS transfer.

I have no interest in hacking encryption codes, even if I were good enough to do it.
post #769 of 1043
7/7/08 at 6:16pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

My whole point was whether breaking Macrovision violates the DMCA, and I don't believe it does. But to say as you did, "Under Fair Use, you can make any copies you want for your own personal use," is simply no longer true anymore. It was for a long time, and a lot of folks (including me) are unhappy about the change in the law.

It takes more skill, in my opinion, to capture copy-guarded video on a harddrive than it does to use widely available software to illegally break an encryption and copy DVD to DVD with one click. And since the intent of VHS's Macrovision is the same, to prevent copying via encoding, I believe there could be a legal question under the new law.

That's my point.
post #770 of 1043
7/7/08 at 7:10pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I guess I'll stand both corrected and highly complimented. Corrected because you sound as if you have some legal background in this area. I don't, and so will bow to your superior knowledge -- though, absent some evidence I was distributing copied video or audio, the RIAA might have problems getting a jury to convict me of anything.

As for the compliment, I'm happy to hear that it takes so much skill to get copy-protected media onto a hard drive. I never thought plugging in three cords (video, audio left, audio right) and pushing "play" was high level work. Thank you!

Seriously, though, what I get is a one-step down analog copy. It's not pure digital, as good as the original, ready for the mass market. Cracking THAT would take real skill. I don't have it, and have no interest in getting it, because I'm not a thief.

Working to get NuVentures audio matched up with CBS/Paramount video, if I get the ambition and time do it, is as high as I go.

By the by, I enjoy your posts. I like reading stuff by people who know what they're talking about.
post #771 of 1043
7/7/08 at 10:28pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Rick, I feel the same way about your posts.

My secret is I keep my mouth shut unless I think I know what I'm talking about (and I'm not always right about that, either!)
post #772 of 1043
7/8/08 at 4:45pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

With 100 reviews posted on Amazon, a full 71% gave the set 1 star. Several of the 5-star reviews were posted BEFORE the set came out and seem questionable to me, as do some of the recent 5-star rankings with dubious justifications.

Whatever the motive of any of the reviewers, I think the rating speaks loud and clear.
post #773 of 1043
7/8/08 at 6:03pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carabimero
With 100 reviews posted on Amazon, a full 71% gave the set 1 star. Several of the 5-star reviews were posted BEFORE the set came out and seem questionable to me, as do some of the recent 5-star rankings with dubious justifications.

Whatever the motive of any of the reviewers, I think the rating speaks loud and clear.

amazon in general is quite silly. The majority of these reviews are written by people who've never bought the product - their simply reviewing something they've seen long ago (or recently). I always thought the point of amazon was to not review the actual show or film or whatever, but to review the product - the transfer, the sound, what's on it, how the whole package looks and plays. But that's not what it is, it's just like the imdb - I don't think anyone should be allowed to review anything on amazon that they haven't actually purchased and watched, because what's the point. In the case of The Fugitive, you can't take any review seriously that was written before the product was actually released. Then again, I don't take any amazon review seriously, just as I don't take the imdb user reviews seriously.
post #774 of 1043
7/8/08 at 8:09pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyFeldman
amazon in general is quite silly.
I gotta go with that too. You can definitely find many sensible reviews there but unfortunately, you don't have to have to be accurate or even have an IQ to post a review.
post #775 of 1043
7/9/08 at 12:31am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I had some fun assembling this video today, which features Pete Rugolo's
outstanding "Fugitive" music front and center:



YouTube - "THE FUGITIVE" (EXCERPTS FROM ORIGINAL TV SOUNDTRACK)
post #776 of 1043
7/9/08 at 1:35am
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

To say that reviews on Amazon can be quite silly is true and might mean something if we're talking about six of one or half a dozen of another. But 100 reviews of any kind--when 70 percent are 1-star--says something.

To say a word in Amazon's defense--a mechanism exists now where readers vote on reviews and I have seen several silly ones removed. That deserves a mention.
post #777 of 1043
7/9/08 at 1:38am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

David,

That was great; thanks!

Now if we could just overlay some of that into "Escape into Black" ... *sigh*
post #778 of 1043
7/9/08 at 6:09am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
You can definitely find many sensible reviews there but unfortunately, you don't have to have to be accurate or even have an IQ to post a review.

I would agree with the latter when it comes to posters commenting on something like "The Gilmore Girls". When people gush, it can be painful to read. But I have to say I've read many enligtening and intelligent comments concerning the S2 vol. 1 gaff. The one written on 7/6 by "Fugitive Fan" is especially well crafted and really speaks to the essence of "The Fugitve". (Everyone who had a hand in messing up the S2 release should thoroughly read through it).

Certainly, over the last few years, DVD "reviews" have taken a turn on Amazon from unbiased thoughts on the technical aspects of the product to a "trip down memory lane" and grandstanding for a favorite show, but I just glance over them and focus on those that concentrate on the product and offer a few cogent insights. For the record, I've always enjoyed reading reviews by our own David Von Pein, Bob Huggins and Harry Neyhart.
post #779 of 1043
7/9/08 at 8:17am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Thanks for assembling that soundtrack video, David!

You've really done a great job illustrating how the music for "The Fugitive" plays such an important and integral role.
post #780 of 1043
7/9/08 at 9:07am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

To be clear, I have no problem with any amazon review wherein they're actually talking about the DVD (or whatever product) - I take exception when they're just talking about the actual show or film and they haven't even seen the DVD (or whatever). Frequently, there are reviews up for product that doesn't even have a release date.
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