The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews - Page 21  

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

You could be right I suppose. But if so, it makes me wonder if anyone at CBS DVD has a common-sense IQ that reaches triple digits.

Another ~shrug~.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Deleted

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

It's not $25. In fact, Amazon's RAISED the price 80 cents since the release date. It's a ridiculously-high $29.99 as of this writing on June 25 AM.

Where did you see a $25.24 price point, David?

I did note, though, that Amazon has the Harrison Ford "Fugitive" movie on sale for the bargain-basement price of $4.99.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

As to the "easier" question, I wonder if it played out this way.

CBS, looking forward, saw six more half seasons of FUGITIVE releases, wherein they were at least "uncertain" about the music cues. Mark Heyes and his cronies were probably already on the payroll. By giving them the assignment of coming up with a new in-house set of cues to use, the company figured a one-time investment would carry them through all six future releases.

Their seeming nervousness about these music cues might have even led them to some day stealthily replace the cues on future re-stocking units of season one sets too. I wouldn't be surprised.

Now, that's the scenario that I'm guessing that the company had in its collective mind. What they didn't count on at all was the backlash of fans protesting and causing these sets to sell poorly and have a high return rate.

Remember, for them to even consider doing this (replacing the music), they had to not be fans themselves or even consider the fans. To them it's just an old black & white show that's sitting on the shelves not making any money. If getting it out means sending a few extra bucks to Mark Heyes and his team, then so be it.

Consider how seemingly unimportant the original music is to some old show YOU'VE never seen. They probably figured that the old geezers who'd be buying the show have all lost their hearing anyway.

I still don't understand why they didn't make the new music track in 5.1 surround and boast about that?

Harry

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Yes, why not "Have Gun--Will Travel"? Or "Rawhide", for that matter? In one particular S2 episode ("Incident of the Devil and His Due" - ep. #14 of that season) no less than 85 separate music cues (!) culled from the CBS library and possibly other sources were incorporated into the soundtrack. Several of these are listed as "anonymous". And this is just one episode.

So what makes "Rawhide" any less daunting where the precise ownership of every single piece of music is concerned?

BHS - Herrmann Music in Have Gun Will Travel and Other Classic CBS Television Series

(Scroll to bottom of page and click on "Rawhide")

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Mike,

I've wondered the same thing. Here's a specific example of a cue that I heard on a "Rawhide" episode recently. It's exactly the same cue as the one that was in "Never Wave Goodbye Pt 1" in the scene where "Lars" (Will Kuluva) was starting his explanation of what happened to "Karen"'s (Susan Oliver) parents. Lars was talking to Kimble on the dock at lunchtime.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I have to confess that I haven't heard any of the clips posted earlier. But my question is this:

From the descriptions so far, how could you hide this? As soon as someone watched an episode, it would be obvious, right? It's synthesized (wouldn't sound anything like a 1960s recording), right?

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I agree but I don't understand why they would try to do it since it could only end with them looking bad. There's no way that I would have caught it (the last time that I saw the show was on A&E in the early 1990's) but anyone who has been watching the show for 40 years or if they're just familiar with the show would never miss something like that.

If they had said that they had to replace the music in the press release or before it came out, people would have been mad but SOME people would have accepted it or at least appreciated that they were told in advance that it was altered. By not saying nothing about the replaced music, they only succeeded in was pissing people off AND looking like they were deliberately trying to trick people.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

This is in no way a justification for what they did in changing the music on "The Fugitive" release, but I was able to speak with someone off the record who has done DVD production with CBS in the past. He told me this:

"It's hard to get CBS to release something without a clear legal opinion on who owns the music - maybe they've gotten badly stung on that in the past. Music clearance issues delayed release of (an old movie) on DVD for almost a year. And I never was able to track down a satisfactory answer with respect to the ownership of the background music on (a kinescope of an old TV show from the early 50's), with the result that they restricted me to "music-less" excerpts."

Whoever at CBS is responsible for "The Fugitive" should have known long ago about these restrictions and should have made a much greater effort to get clearances even if it meant a significant delay. It would seem that once the rights were cleared up for the second season there would probably not be much additional clearance needed for subsequent seasons.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Since I knew that Pete Rugulo was the sole composer of the series, from my own standpoint I would have caught it immediately. And that's with me basically seeing the series for the first time.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

CUE SHEET - “Incident of the Devil and His Due” January 22, 1960

1. “Rawhide Main Title” Dimitri Tiomkin/Ned Washington 1:00
2. “Rawhide End Title” (CBS 9-58-C-1) Russ Garcia :30
3. “Rawhide Main Title” Russ Garcia :25
4. “Punctuation # 2” Dimitri Tiomkin :06 [2:31 to 2:36]
5. “Collectors Item Main Title” Bernard Herrmann :06 [2:37] Trio of bad men.
6. “Mask Funeral March” Lucien Moraweck :05 [2:38 to 3:40]
7. “Indian Signals” Bernard Herrmann :55 [5:13 to 6:07]
8. “Pursuit Opening” Jerry Goldsmith/Bernard Herrmann :08
9. “Quiet Determination # 2” Lucien Moraweck :20 [6:13 to 6:30]
10. “Ran Afoul” Jerry Goldsmith :32 [start 6:31]
11. “Ran Afoul” Jerry Goldsmith :14
12. “Knife Chord” (CBS 8-44-C) Jerry Goldsmith :09 [7:15 to 7:22]
13. “Collectors Item Main Title” (CBS 9-44) Bernard Herrmann :06 [start7:23]
14. “The Claw” (CBS 9-44) Bernard Herrmann :20 [7:27 to 7:47]
15. “Finale” (CBS 10-11-1) Bernard Herrmann :27 [8:07 to 8:34] House on K Street
16. “Unison Punctuations” Dimitri Tiomkin arr. Rene Garriguenc :08 [8:36 to 8:43]
17. “Impending Doom” (CBS 10-22) Lucien Moraweck :35 [9:02 to 9:32]
18. “Frech Horn Stings” (CBS 7-4) Anonymous :06
19. “Rawhide Punctuations” Dimitri Tiomkin, arr. Rene Garriguenc :12
20. “Humor Part” William Grant Still :13 [12:41 to 12:53]
21. “Comic Suspense Background” Van Phillips :14 [13:38 to 14:28]
22. “Headin’ West” Wiilliam Grant Still :53
23. “Theme 4” (CBS12) J. Moross :17 [14:29 to 14:44]
24. “Collectors Item Main Title” Bernard Herrmann :06
25. “The Cat” (CBS 9-56-1) Bernard Herrmann 1:00 [14:50 to 15:50]
26. “Curtain” (CBS 7-47-1) Rene Garriguenc :08 [17:19 to 17:28]
27. “Unison Punctuations” Dimitri Tiomkin aar. Rene Garriguenc :06
28. “Western Desolation” (CBS 9-51-A) Rene Garriguenc :05 [21:22 to 21:31]
29. “Headin’ West” William Grant Still :05
30. “Dramatic” Dimitri Tiomkin aar. Bowen :17
31. “Emotional Unison Bridge” Rene Garriguenc :12 [23:12 to 23:21]
32. “Rawhide End Title” Russ Garcia :08 [23:22]
33. “Rawhide Main t\Title” Russ Garcia :09
34. “Headin’ West” William Grant Still” :09 [24:42 to 26:30]
35. “Headin’ West” William Grant Still 1:01
36. “Headin’ West” (CBS 8-51-D) Still :10
37. “Headin’ West” William Grant Still :30
38. “Finale” Bernard Herrmann :27 [26:31 to 26:56] from House on K Street
39. “Punctuation # 2” Dimitri Tiomkin :06
40. “Rawhide Prelude” Russ Garcia :44
41. “Headin’ West” William Grant Still :06 [27:49 to 28:18]
42. “Headin’ West” William Grant Still :30
43. “Confession # 2” (CBS 9-56-E) Rene Garriguenc :31 [29:14 to 29:45]
44. “Impending Doom” Lucien Moraweck :23 [29:46]
45. “Impending Doom” Lucien Moraweck :13
46. “Headin’ West” William Grant Still :14 [31:00 to 31:14]
47. “Collectors Item Main Title” Bernard Herrmann :06 [31:15]
48. “Punctuation # 2” Dimitri Tiomkin :07 [32:54]
49. “The Arrest” (CBS 8-46-C) Bernard Herrmann :38 [33:00 to 33:34]
50. “Shock Therapy # 2” Rene Garriguenc :06 [33:35]
51. “Star Chords” (CBS 10-6) Jerry Goldsmith :05
52. “Night In The Desert” Dimitri Tiomkin :15 [33:50]
53. “Rawhide Theme” (CBS 9-58-D-8) Dimitri Tiomkin :55
54. “Indian Signals” Bernard Herrmann 1:00 [35:48]
55. “Lead Ins” (CBS 8-56-A) Bernard Herrmann :14 [36:48 to 37:02] “Lead-In F”
56. “Knife Chord” Jerry Goldsmith :09 [37:02]
57. “The Arrest” Bernard Herrmann :09 [37:06]
58. “Indian Signals” Bernard Herrmann :06 [37:21]
59. “Quiet day” Dimitri Tiomkin arr. Rene Garriguenc :24 38:47]
60. “Lonely Moment” (CBS 10-23) Jerry Goldsmith :39[39:40 to 40:21]
61. “Nervous Tension” (CBS 7-56-A) Lucien Moraweck 1:01
62. “Star Chords” Jerry Goldsmith :04
63. “Strange Visit” Jerry Goldsmith :40 [41:49]
64. “String Effects” (CBS 7-23-C) Anonymous :04
65. “The Search # 3” Lucien Moraweck :05
66. “Knife Chord” Jerry Goldsmith :08 [42:40]
67. “Footsteps in the Night” Lucien Moraweck :08
68. “Lead Ins” Bernard Herrmann :18 [42:50 to 43:09]
69. “Horns in C” (CBS 8-28-C) Anonymous :08 [44:13]
70. “Furtive Visitor # 2” Lucien Moraweck :15 [44:21] Spooky cue!
71. “Ostinato Suspense” (CBS 8-56-D-3) Rene Garriguenc :16 [44:50]
72. “Ostinato Suspense” Rene Garriguenc :41
73. “Ostinato Suspense” Rene Garriguenc :19
74. “Furtive Visitor” Lucien Moraweck :44 [45:49]
75. “Night Vigil # 1” Lucien Moraweck 1:11
76. “Violin Tremolos” (CBS 7-29-A) Anonymous :56
77. “Fear # 2” (CBS 7-23-A) Lucien Moraweck :20
78. “String Flareout” Anonymous :20 [47:36]
79. “Shock Therapy #1” (CBS 9-46-A) Rene Garriguenc :07
80. “Buildup Chords” Lucien Moraweck :15 [48:06] Rowdy’s gun on bad man]
81. “Discouragement # 2” (CBS 9-44) Lucien Moraweck :16
82. “Headin’ West” William Grant Still :24
83. “Sneak and Finale” J. Moross/Rene Garriguenc :26
84. “Rawhide End Title” Dimitri Tiomkin/Ned Washington 1:00
85. “Punctuation # 1” Dimitri Tiomkin :06

Paramount,

Cues 18, 64, 69, 76 & 78 are worrisome to me. Might want to recall the "Rawhide" sets and re-score and issue replacements. I know a good harmonica player.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I'm saving a lengthier comment for my blog, but note that the Variety piece fingers the Capitol Music clues as the probable culprit. That still leaves a lot of questions unanswered but would seem to suggest that CBS is at least aware they own the CBS library cues audible in Rawhide, Gunsmoke, Perry Mason, etc., and of course The Fugitive.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

CBS/Paramount said: We didn't want to disappoint fans by significantly delaying the release of the second season.
---------
Hey CBS/Paramount -- Remember the saying "Do you want it fast or do you want it right?"
WE WANT IT RIGHT!!!!

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Wouldn't it be great if the Encore Network picked up the series. They have always done a great job on past shows. There would seem to be a bigger market for it on cable now that buying the DVD's is not an option.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

And the 4th season, for that matter, save for more emphasis on Dom Frontiere cues. Let's face it, it probably boils down to a couple of suspect cues in the Capitol Music library, which almost certainly was utilized in S1 as well. For all seasons, I would surmise that what was borrowed was 90% CBS Music library cues and 10% Capitol, if even that.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Since most of the posts on this thread have been in a similar mood, and since The Fugitive release fits the topic, here's a good rant from HuffingtonPost.com blogger Michael Glitz on all infuriating half-season sets for older TV shows on DVD.

Michael Giltz: DVDs: TV Show Boxed Set Rip-Offs - Entertainment on The Huffington Post

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Retro Televsion Network (RTN) is available in several areas and is carrying The Fugitive in some of those markets. I tried to post the URLs for the RTN locations and for the shows being carried, but the spam filter wouldn't let me because I'm a new member and I haven't made 10 posts or more. So Google "Retro Televsion Network"

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

And of course Boise Idaho is one of the only places where RTN hasnt come yet. Figures.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I would love to have the chance to see the Fugitive and a lot of the other great shows on RTN. I would be thrilled to see them make it to Dayton Ohio, or better yet get on cable networks and satallite systems. I still believe there would be plenty of support to make a channel like that profitable.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

You Betcha I and my Parents would probably spend about 4 hours aday on the channel, actually I would DVR it, but alas, it's not in the Western Mass area. RTN is mainly on subchannels for the Hidef locals, and all the stations out here use them for weather.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Or, some stations broadcast it with very low-power transmitters. My area (Lexington, Kentucky) has an RTN affiliate, but their transmitter is ridiculously small (only about 42 kw), which is just barely enough coverage for the city. I live in an outlying area (about 100 miles south). The network affiliates, on the other hand, have transmitters starting at about 1,260kw and going over 5,000.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I guess the latest news update from Gord and Dave confirm what we've all been thinking since the news first broke: the blame for the music replacement fiasco rests squarely on the shoulders of CBS/Paramount. Apparently they were concerned about a very minimal amount of cues from the now defunct Capitol Music Library (not the Rugolo score or other portions of the CBS Library) and rather than take the time and resources necessary to find out who owned those rights and where they occurred in the individual episodes, CBS/Paramount took what they thought was the safe and easier way out by cutting all the music. It was a huge miscalculation on their part to think those cues wouldn't matter to the fans, and while there may be truth to the comments about them not wanting to delay the set, that would have been the better idea.

Let's hope they correct this issue by either securing the rights to the cues from the Capitol Music Library or at least replace the other, more prominent, cues and only re-score the minimal amount needed. I wouldn't like it but I could live with a small amount of re-score, but the Rugolo and more common CBS Library music (like some of the scores heard on other shows like RAWHIDE) needs to stay intact.

Gary "quality over quantity is the lesson here for CBS" O.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I agree. CBS does need to re-release The Fugitive as a complete second season to redeem themselves.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

So this does actually tie in with my earlier post where I mentioned the Gumby box set released several years ago by Rhino, where the entire "classic" Gumby series was collected...and every single short was completely rescored using synthesized background music, and I'm pretty sure the voices were all redubbed too. (This dates back to a 1988 syndicated package.)

The problem in that case was the Capitol library. This also put the kabosh on WB releasing Hanna-Barbera's "Quick Draw McGraw."

Now I realize these are old cartoon shows and are not relevant to a classic dramatic series like "The Fugitive." But the point here is (and I'm pretty sure a web search will bear this out) the Capitol library has been a sticking point for many series. Someone else here may know more of the specifics, but my understanding is that the Capitol library itself is defunct, and ownership is split among different entities -- one of which is out of the business and will not license its material at any price (i.e. it might as well be "Stairway To Heaven").

Now, does that justify the rescoring of an entire DVD set so it makes a street date, when the majority of the music cues would not be affected? No.