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For the record, I don't think anyone is really getting on the composer CBS hired. I know the word "hack" has been used, but I don't believe it was done as a real slight to the man himself. It was just used out of anger comparing the original, beautiful score that we all know and love to the new synthesized version. And I do feel kinda bad for the guy. It's CBS who I'm upset with at this point, not Mark Heyes.
At least until we hear otherwise I'm becoming more and more persuaded that this was just a matter of CBS needing to work just a little bit harder. If we find out they were being held hostage, so to speak, then I'll be more forgiving. But right now it looks like the blame rests squarely on their shoulders.
At this point I'm convinced that someone at CBS/Paramount took the easy way out and had the music replaced because there MIGHT be a problem. I think that's why CBS doesn't want to talk specifics about this. I believe, the more we find out about this, the more foolish CBS is going to look.
In my opinion, I think revenue was the driving factor in rushing this release to market rather than properly researching the music cue ownership.
As often happens with studio releases, a release date is pencilled in before the release has completed production, and the studio is counting on this revenue during that particular month. Had they pushed back the release date, they would not have the budgeted revenue coming in for that release, which affects their bottom line for the month. And trying to fill that revenue hole would mean pushing up something else by a month or more on the schedule, which would also be problematic.
With a season one set, it's possible they spent more time and money because they know that set will sell the best and generate the most revenue for years to come. That, combined with the given reason that there were fewer music cues on season 1, may be why season one was relatively intact. Season 2 was a direct result of how well season 1 sold, and probably had less lead time and a smaller budget as a result.
Ultimately, I think it's safe to say it all comes down to $$. The big question now is not whether they will correctly re-issue S2V1 (no way in hell), but what will they do with S2V2, which they are probably sitting on as it's fair to say they probably re-scored the entire season at once for cost efficiencies. They really are between a rock and a hard place, and the fans will suffer.
As often happens with studio releases, a release date is pencilled in before the release has completed production, and the studio is counting on this revenue during that particular month. Had they pushed back the release date, they would not have the budgeted revenue coming in for that release, which affects their bottom line for the month.
No argument there, regular and anticipated revenue in a given time frame is what drives everything in this game. But to throw all caution to the wind where tampering is concerned and then to make a great effort in concealing it and having ZERO understanding of the fallout in light of the many snafus that have been witnessed in the tv/dvd business by now--that's what floors me.
Classic tv fans on the whole are quite astute and perfectionisist oriented types who take great offense at being bamboozeled--it's just patently insulting to not come clean from the get-go if the plans call for such wholesale alteration of a beloved entertainment product.
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At this point I'm convinced that someone at CBS/Paramount took the easy way out and had the music replaced because there MIGHT be a problem. I think that's why CBS doesn't want to talk specifics about this.
I completely agree. An uber-litigious society breeds a ridiculously cautious one.
I'll share with you guys what I'm doing to deal with this debacle.
I live in the Atlanta area, and I get the Retro Television Network (RTN) on my system. It shows "The Fugitive" everyday at 2:00 PM, so I'm just recording away. I don't know if these are "time-sped" or anything like that; I don't notice it if they are. RTN is cool because they have relatively short commercial breaks, and other than an "RTN" logo at the bottom right of the screen, they don't hit you with other channel garbage (no promos or other "messages" popping up, no squeezing or talking over the closing credits, etc.). And, unlike when A&E ran it, the episode title card and voiceover are intact. In short, I think this is probably as good as it's gonna get.
So, I'm going to edit out the commercials and make my own DVDs. To heck with CBS and their altering.
Tim, that sounds like a great alternative. I don't have RTN on DirecTV (the original dual-LNB dish) system. I don't know if RTN is available on DirecTV's newer systems.
What are the actual run-times of the episodes on RTN minus the commercials? I'm curious if they're the original un-cut versions. If so, they should clock in at about 50-51 minutes run-time. I'm beginning to wonder if the original versions are available for broadcast anywhere since their initial runs in the 60's.
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Originally Posted by Gary
Gary "I still can't believe this has happened to my favorite show of all time!" O.
You've got a lot of company, Gary. This one has moved to a tie for my #1 show.
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Originally Posted by Michael
No truer words were written, Gary. I would have rather had the stock music on "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea" replaced with Fred Astaire dance numbers.
That's classic, Mike!
Paula, thanks for posting that Variety News article! As Gary said, it's great that this issue is getting some press out there.
I haven't timed them, but they appear to be complete. Nothing seems missing. And, as I mentioned, RTN has very short commercial breaks, so I don't think they cut out parts of the show to squeeze more commercials in. Currently, RTN is finishing up showing the third season of "The Fugitive" (today's airing is "In a Plain Paper Wrapper"). When they get back around to showing the first season, I'll compare what they air to the first season DVDs and see if anything's missing.
But overall, I'm pleased. RTN (so far) seems to be MUCH better than any other channel for classic stuff (TV Land, etc.)
Oh, and by the way, even if you get RTN on your system, that doesn't guarantee that you'll get "The Fugitive" or whatever show you're looking for; different areas/markets get different lineups.
I'm just fortunate that "The Fugitive" is on the RTN in my area.
I'll share with you guys what I'm doing to deal with this debacle. I live in the Atlanta area, and I get the Retro Television Network (RTN) on my system. It shows "The Fugitive" everyday at 2:00 PM, so I'm just recording away. I don't know if these are "time-sped" or anything like that; I don't notice it if they are. RTN is cool because they have relatively short commercial breaks, and other than an "RTN" logo at the bottom right of the screen, they don't hit you with other channel garbage (no promos or other "messages" popping up, no squeezing or talking over the closing credits, etc.). And, unlike when A&E ran it, the episode title card and voiceover are intact. In short, I think this is probably as good as it's gonna get.
So, I'm going to edit out the commercials and make my own DVDs. To heck with CBS and their altering.
I'm just grateful that I have this alternative.
I don't know how it looks in Atlanta, but the shows on RTN (Rockford, Fugitive, Hawaii Five-O, etc) broadcast in Florida look faded and awful. And I'm assuming it's the same network feed. I don't know what source prints they're using, but they don't remotely match the quality of the re-mastered DVD sets. I know, I know, better than nothing ... but once you've been spoiled with a good image ...
Thanks for the info. I checked out the RTN site after reading your earlier post and there's no affiliate in my area (Dallas Tx). The nearest affiliate location from DFW is about 100 miles east via an over-air channel. Since we're talking about the Fugitive, it's almost worth mounting a 3-story directional anntenna in my back yard
If RTN was carried by DirecTV I'd have already subscribed to this one. You're right, it's the best programming lineup I've seen. I never had access to another "retro" service "Goodlife Channel/Network" so I can't compare those two for 1st place.
That's also interesting about the programming varying in different markets around the country.
I get the same RTN programming as Atlanta (Cannon, Fugitive, Streets of San Francisco, etc), but seriously, these prints are often below pirated versions. The movies even worse. I'd really like to know where their source material is coming from. Why don't they just use the DVD sets? It would look better than what they are broadcasting. It's shameful.
Ouch I didn't see your RTN post until I posted my last entry. If that were the case in the DFW mkt (poor video Q print versions), I'd say it's "Back to the Dawing Bd".
This thing (Fugitive) is so good that as a 1st-time viewer, I'm having a tough time with the "mind-set" getting prepared to do without those A++ studio transfers in the CBS/P sets. Mom's also telling me to buy the S2V1 set regardless of the soundtrack sub. We've both seen so many incredible scenes via the studio master transfers in this show from S1: The night scene in the pilot "Fear....City" at the Greyhound Sta.....the contstruction site scene at the end of the ep from "See Hollywood....", etc......Buck Taylor walking away from the giant earth-moving equip in "Terror at High Point"....on and on....
We've both seen so many incredible scenes via the studio master transfers in this show from S1
Exactly what makes this such a frustrating experience, Jeff. With "The Fugitive" you could lift almost any frame and have a great still for compostion, lighting, contrast, etc. With the moody, at turns jazzy and oft stark sounding original soundtrack married to the original celluloid, it's just synergistic perfection.
An uber-litigious society breeds a ridiculously cautious one.
That's probably true. But in this case, I believe the bigger problem is that nobody at CBS cared enough to take the time and devote the energy to really figuring out what was going on regarding the cues, and they certainly didn't take the time to try to solve the problem, or the potential problem. They tried to go around the problem, and in doing so, created an even bigger one.
That's probably true. But in this case, I believe the bigger problem is that nobody at CBS cared enough to take the time and devote the energy to really figuring out what was going on regarding the cues, and they certainly didn't take the time to try to solve the problem, or the potential problem. They tried to go around the problem, and in doing so, created an even bigger one.
That's my take too, John. Until we hear otherwise, I'm going to continue to believe that CBS simply took what they considered to be the easy way out. And that's a real shame.
Of course, the RTN prints don't look as good as the DVDs. Neither did the A&E ones. But I don't think they look too bad....at least in my area. I'll gladly take a little lesser picture quality over the redone musical score.
I haven't timed them, but they appear to be complete. Nothing seems missing. And, as I mentioned, RTN has very short commercial breaks, so I don't think they cut out parts of the show to squeeze more commercials in. Currently, RTN is finishing up showing the third season of "The Fugitive" (today's airing is "In a Plain Paper Wrapper"). When they get back around to showing the first season, I'll compare what they air to the first season DVDs and see if anything's missing.
But overall, I'm pleased. RTN (so far) seems to be MUCH better than any other channel for classic stuff (TV Land, etc.)
I get the same Atlanta RTN station (I'm in Athens, GA) and I can tell you right now that while the commercial breaks may appear to be short, there are multiple breaks...and they most assuredly take up more than 9-10 minutes an hour. My guess is that these reruns have been time-sped.
Ouch I didn't see your RTN post until I posted my last entry. If that were the case in the DFW mkt (poor video Q print versions), I'd say it's "Back to the Dawing Bd".
This thing (Fugitive) is so good that as a 1st-time viewer, I'm having a tough time with the "mind-set" getting prepared to do without those A++ studio transfers in the CBS/P sets. Mom's also telling me to buy the S2V1 set regardless of the soundtrack sub. We've both seen so many incredible scenes via the studio master transfers in this show from S1: The night scene in the pilot "Fear....City" at the Greyhound Sta.....the contstruction site scene at the end of the ep from "See Hollywood....", etc......Buck Taylor walking away from the giant earth-moving equip in "Terror at High Point"....on and on....
Life is short (I lost my mom last year), so at the risk of being labeled sacreligious on this thread, I would say get the set (or find a way to get it without it registering as a sale for CBS/Paramount). The stories, actors, scenes are all intact, the image is pristine, and you're not likely to see another release of these episodes any time soon. As a fan of the original airing of the show, I'll stick with the boycott, but then I've seen the episodes at least once already. And I think we've made our voice heard. New adoptees should 'quietly' enjoy the "fresh" stories, guilt-free. But that, of course, is the opinion of a writer, not a musician.
I say that if Paramount wants to best redeem themselves and save face & finance on future releases of the series, they'd be best to simply move on to Season Two, Volume Two... BUT... Release a COMPLETE SEASON TWO Box Set at the same time with the corrected soundtrack for the first half of the season as an exclusive. That way there's no need for a recall of the current discs and surely most all the fans who've sacrificed sales to Paramount over this debacle will rush out to purchase. Not only will the studio pull in high sales for the second half of their season set, but the price tag for the full season will redeem whatever losses went into this whole mess!
As far as I'm concerned, it's the only reasonable and doable way to amend the situation to satisfy everyone now.
I'm hopeful they'll correct the problem, but not holding my breath. To that end I got out all my VHS-to-DVD transfers, made some decent looking labels for them, cross indexed them, and catalogued my own "complete series." I've enjoyed the show for twenty years using these copies. I can do it for another twenty if need be. The trouble for me will be going from the first season pristine transfers to my watchable but certainly less than pristine seasons 2-4. But I have all the episodes; they're complete, and I'm going to make do (while continuing to bug Paramount and buy and return as many S2V1 sets as I can).
It should be reiterated that it wasn't "stiff fees" that caused this, because as far as I can see, CBS never got that far - they just were worried and therefore replaced the music. From what I've read, the music in question was about five or six cues from the Capitol library, and from what I'm reading they never even tried to license those cues - and the point that must never be forgotten, is that outside of those handful of cues, all this music appears on Season one's episodes.
I get the same Atlanta RTN station (I'm in Athens, GA) and I can tell you right now that while the commercial breaks may appear to be short, there are multiple breaks...and they most assuredly take up more than 9-10 minutes an hour. My guess is that these reruns have been time-sped.
"Multiple breaks"?....In watching "The Fugitive" on RTN, the breaks that are there are appropriate: after the opening credits and between "acts".....they don't make awkward cuts into a show like some other channels do.
Well, anyway, you guys do what you want to. Just wanted to let you know that there is a channel out there running the show in some areas.....and recording it is working out well for me.
What burns me up the most is that it appears...that the company just took the easy road by not really trying to find out who owned the rights or how they could secure them. Seems to me they simply felt the "easier" thing to do would be to create their own background music instead of going the extra mile to at least try and secure the rights.
This is the rub, IMO (and is something I keep scratching my head about) --- Would re-creating a brand-new music score (in a fairly-similar "Fugitive" style) really have been the "easy" way out of this situation...vs. attempting to track down a particular rights holder(s)?
Seems to me, logically-speaking, that the way CBS did this was certainly more work for them (and Mr. Heyes, et al) than it would have been to hunt down the copyright owner(s) of the music and use the original soundtrack.
I don't know a thing about how difficult (vs. not difficult) it is to re-score the background music for fifteen 51-minute TV shows....but it seems like a lot of work to me.
Plus, Mr. Heyes and Company didn't just throw in any ol' musical cues. They definitely made an attempt to mimic the original Fugitive music down the line. The Heyes music is not nearly as good as the Rugolo (et al) original themes, as all Fuge fans will attest, but at least an attempt was made by CBS/Para./Heyes/et al to re-create a similar "Fuge atmosphere" to a degree (although I'm guessing that CBS didn't want to risk Heyes' music getting too close to the music they were replacing, for the additional fear of possibly being sued in the future due to the new music mimicking the original cues too closely).
So the re-scoring of every episode must have taken considerable research (and time)...and some amount of cash right there (quite obviously).
How is that, then, to be considered an "easier" solution than keeping the original music in these 15 TV programs in the first place? (I think I'll do this right now --> ~shrug~ -- because I'm stumped on this one.)
Anyhow, if you need a "Real Fuge" music fix, listen to this:
In lieu of acquiring the needed rights to the original music for Seasons 2 through 4, perhaps CBS/Paramount will be wise enough to outsource "THE FUGITIVE" to another DVD distributor (Image Ent. or Shout Factory would be nice) in order for the other company to market this classic TV show in its proper uncut version.
"The Fugitive" is a program that most certainly does not deserve to die by remaining forever in a studio's closet someplace. And surely even CBS/Paramount realizes this fact. Hopefully they do anyway.
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This is the rub, IMO (and is something I keep scratching my head about) --- Would re-creating a brand-new music score (in a fairly-similar "Fugitive" style) really have been the "easy" way out of this situation...vs. attempting to track down a particular rights holder(s)?
Seems to me, logically-speaking, that the way CBS did this was certainly more work for them (and Mr. Heyes, et al) than it would have been to hunt down the copyright owner(s) of the music and use the original soundtrack.
I don't know a thing about how difficult (vs. not difficult) it is to re-score the background music for fifteen 51-minute TV shows....but it seems like a lot of work to me.
How is that, then, to be considered an "easier" solution than keeping the original music in these 15 TV programs in the first place? (I think I'll do this right now --> ~shrug~ -- because I'm stumped on this one.)
Since I've used the word "easier" a couple of times I guess I should tackle at least a portion of your question. When I say CBS took the "easy" way out I do NOT mean it was literally easier for them, or less work for them, to do things the way they did. I'm of the same mind you are on this. It probably was more work for them. What I meant to say was that rather than be bothered by legalities and/or possible lawsuits (which might have only been a specter in their minds) CBS decided to take the more cautious road. Whether or not the path they took was really easier for them than tracking down the rights holders is another matter entirely. I was speaking from what I believe was their perspective. They probably really believe it was easier for them to redo the score.
I was watching an episode of Perry Mason season 2 volume 2, and it had a few of the Fugitive library cues in it. Why would this affect only The Fugitive? This has me baffled.
Oh, and thanks for that clip, David. That music still gives me goosebumps every time I hear it. You put the picture and the music together and it is an experience I have never found an equal for on television.
I was watching an episode of Perry Mason season 2 volume 2, and it had a few of the Fugitive library cues in it. Why would this affect only The Fugitive? This has me baffled.
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My guess is that the individuals doing Mason have some patience and common sense. I honestly think someone got a "bright" idea and that led to the music change in The Fugitive.
That's classic, Mike!
