The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews - Page 19  

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Do you really think that the music was made solely as art?

I'm not saying that it's cheap or lacking in value or that it should be replaced or that any music will do but it's still a score for a TV show which automatically makes it a product. And being a product doesn't stop it from being art but it's not like Rugolo composed the music because he felt it in his soul- he had a job and he composed some great music at the same time.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Does anyone have a link to a clip with the old music vs the new?

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I think it was Harry-N who provided the original link to this site (if not, my apologies to the original poster) . . . .

The Fugitive Escape into Black

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Yeah that does Suck does'nt it.

I can't fathom how a total rescore , even with cheezy synth music (and way too upbeat for this series) is cheaper than paying for the original score cues. I'm still happy to be able to see these but this situation stinks. At the very least there should be a full screen disclaimer at the beginning of the set alluding to the fact that this show has been altered from it's original version, much like they do for Full screen versions of movies. Sneaking the credit into the final credits, at thesame style of the original is not acceptable and very deceptive.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

That's very well said, Dave. My beef with CBS/Paramount is two-fold in this fiasco.

First, they changed the music. That's just unacceptable with this show in particular. And it is hard to believe that going to all the trouble of hiring a band to rescore the entire thing was the easier and more sane route. And the bottom line is that someone, somewhere within the confines of CBS/Paramount really and truly should have known they couldn't get away with this type of change without infuriating the fans of the show. How they thought this was an ok idea is beyond me.

Second, and more distressing, is the apparent deception involved in not labeling the package more clearly and then trying to mask the changes in the closing credits. That's really sneaky and not what I've come to expect from CBS/Paramount. Having said that, let's be honest: If there's one complaint we could have thrown CBS/Paramount's way over the last several years it does involve substituted music. Whether it be "Happy Days", "Gomer Pyle", "The Odd Couple", or even the smaller changes found on the first season sets of "The Fugitive", it's obvious that CBS/Paramount does NOT go out of their way to secure music rights. Having said that, everything up to this point I had been able to stomach. I didn't like the changes, but I stomached them.

Changing the entire underscore like this is a first as far as I know. And it happened with a show where the music really is vital. There's just no mistake about that. And it's not acceptable. It's just not. I hope CBS/Paramount can restore some of the good will they've lost with me. I'm more than willing to forgive and forget, but they can't continue with these type of changes. It just can't happen. Quality is more important that quantity. While I'd love to see them go the extra mile and offered replacements for this 2nd season set, I realize that's probably pie in the sky thinking. All I ask is that they cease and desist with these type of changes to entire backscores. That must never again be considered a viable option.

Gary "still trying to wrap my mind around this sad debacle" O.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I'm pretty forgiving when it comes to popular music in shows like Happy Days etc, I was a DJ and know the massive Headache it is to clear this music that no one foresaw in 50's and 60's , but entire scores of a show should be in the syndication rights for the series and Home video rights, problem is that The fugitive borrowed from a film library, still those cues can't be that expensive at this point.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Yep, I'm with you all the way on those comments. I can forgive, but not be crazy about, pop music being removed from shows like "Happy Days" and "The Odd Couple." A few of the deletions from "Gomer" really are egregious simply because they are integral to the plot. But even in that case I've learned to live with the subs/deletes. But an entire underscore? No way. Yes, you are right that this probably has to do with the show changing hands, ownership wise. Still, how hard could it have been to secure the rights?

Gary "and like you say, the show did borrow many of it's cues from a library, so it's difficult for me to understand the problem here" O.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Well it was barrowed from the MGM Library, the same ones Twilight Zone, Outer Limits used, If I remember correctly the Fugitive and Invaders were part of MGM, they were'nt initially from paramount, but Paramount bought the Entire QM library didnt they? So I'm sure it's that. Maybe MGM figured they would clean up when Paramount tried to bring these out, Instead Paramount decided to take this way out.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

All I can say is that unless Paramount can find a way to amend this situation and deliver the proper soundtrack for this volume... or even come out with a more complete S2 release combining what would have been Vols. 1 & 2 and restoring the original soundtrack to these episodes... I will not buy another season set of this series again, regardless of the quality of future volumes.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

So I just want to clarify something- If you drop in generic, multi-purpose, pre-existing cues in the 1960's, then it's 'art'.
But if you hire someone to specifically re-score the work in 2008 (someone who may approach the 'work for hire' with a high degree of conscientiousness and craftsmanship) then it's abominable hack-work?
Let's be honest here- the product as it existed for 40+ years, imprinted itself in that form with many, many people. These people are not just paying to be entertained with a collection of high quality work (writing, acting, storytelling in general) they are paying for the ownership(consecration?) of personal as well as cultural memory.
'Art' can easily exist in a revised edition, and can easily be part of the revisions themselves.
That doesn't mean you have to like it or accept it.
The problem here is that CBS/Paramount tried to pass off a 'replica' of the original as the genuine article. They should have gotten out in front of this issue as soon as the announcement of the set was made, and then followed up with periodic press releases that further elaborated the nature of the revisions and the conscientious way they were attempting to salvage the further release of the shows. If I were them, I would have even gone so far as to release an mp3 of one of the cues to familiarize people with the new sound.
Many people would still have rejected the release, but many more would have been sympathetic to position the studio was in- and more importantly- would have been more inclined to give the new cues a chance before rejecting the whole package outright.
From a PR point of view, they probably did more damage to their reputation than was actually done to the shows themselves (that is,if you can accept the shows primary function to be entertainment rather than nostalgia- something I believe Mr Mavis was getting at).

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Uh, I think he's already back, "Todd."

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

And the fact that there is nothing fundamentally different between S1 and S2 of "The Fugitive" where the use of the library cues are concerned. I wracked my brain over this and the only thing that may separate season 2 from S1 is the use of TZ cues composed by Nathan Van Cleave and Jeff Alexander--which shouldn't pose a problem anyway.

I'm almost willing to purchase this set with the substituted score because I want so badly to have all 120 episodes in my collection but the alteration of the title card to include the new composer names as if they were always part of the original production team is really an unforgiveable act. For that reason alone I'll have to pass until perhaps it shows up in a B&M store close-out bin.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Hey, as long as you're not trying to put words in my mouth, or taking my stuff out of context, we're cool to disagree.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

'Art' is a value judgement attributed by the viewer, who is bringing in his own subjective biases and frames of reference. 'Art' in the sense of something like this show, is a lucky, sometime, by-product of work-for-hire. Product like this requires laboring under deadlines and other restrictions and limitations. The creation of product is mandated by strict boundaries- whereas the creation of 'Art' is only dependant on the artist being satisfied with the work. An artist can lay claim to having produced 'art' whether it has been bought, sold, or left in a closet to decompose. There is a very fundemental distinction here that I think Mr Mavis, as a published author, understands that others, possibly blinded by rage and disappointment, don't seem to.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Somebody asked the question "What was David Janssen's real name?" a while ago in this thread.

I just thought I'd chime in with the answer (and I didn't cheat; I remembered it after learning it a few years ago):

David Harold Meyer.

Now, if I wanted to travel down "Coincidence Avenue", I could point out the following facts:

My first name is the same as Mr. Meyer's (Mr. Janssen's).

My father's middle name is the same as Mr. Meyer's middle name.

I'm from Indiana. So is Janssen's (Meyer's) character, "Dr. Kimble".

Janssen/Meyer was born on the 27th day of a calendar month. So was I.

Kimble loves Suzanne Pleshette ("Ellie Burnett"). So do I.

Therefore, in S2,V2, CBS/Paramount will be replacing David Janssen with another "David" from Indiana. Nobody will give a damn or notice...right?

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I was speaking as a working artist as well. In my situation, I work in direct competition with many peers in any given venue, and I know the sensibility that we ALL share because these kinds of discussions come up regularly. Most customers usually avoid the 'true artists' and seek out the hacks, because they want comfortable and familiar over unique and idiosyncratic.. The bread and butter work we do usually seems impressive to civilians, but anyone who has worked next to you with any regularity can tell when you are truly inspired and following a muse- or when you are just hacking something out.
The thing is, if you have experience , education, and talent your 'hackwork' can still exhibit enough innate craftsmanship to make it go over well. And many times, even that isn't neccessary. But the fact is, many of the 'artists' I work with are people with some facility in one area of art, who make money from that ability, while having a passion in another area. They have to hack out work in one area to support the opportunity to follow their muses in another.
If you can afford to be artsy-fartsy and dogmatic with clients and customers in the one area of art that inspires you, and you can make enough to allow you and your family to live comfortably- more power to you. The majority of work-for-hire artists can't.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Thanks for the link. I checked out the comparion on the one episode I was going to see first on my birthday two weekends ago upon opening up the S2 V1 set!!!

The original music was what I anticipated since early Spring 2008.

The unfortunate new mix was what I would have subjected myself to had it not been for the fine folks here at the HTF and elsewhere.

To me, it sounded somewhat like a late 1980s drama soundtrack.

Yes, I may have turned 21 again--but this isn't 1987, CBS/Paramount!

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Variety has published an article about the Fugitive music replacement debacle. P.S. Even if CBS/Paramount had been "upfront" about the replacement, I still wouldn't have bought the set!

-- Paula

CBS Par can't escape 'Fugitive' burn - Entertainment News, TV News, Media - Variety

From Variety, June 23, 2008

CBS Par can't escape 'Fugitive' burn

CBS Paramount has gotten a taste of what can happen when you tinker with a classic TV series on DVD -- and, in the process, has put a new spin on the question of releasing old projects in new media.

This month's DVD release of the second season of David Janssen's 1960s skein "The Fugitive" caused a firestorm when fans of the show and many in the music industry discovered that the entire underscore had been replaced -- not just a song here or there (not uncommon in shows where music licensing is a factor) but all of the dramatic music. Only composer Pete Rugolo's title theme remained, and only under the main and end credits.

DVD releases of song-heavy shows like "WKRP in Cincinnati" and "Northern Exposure" saw the replacement of many tunes, but the "Fugitive" case appears to be the first instance of so-called background music being dumped wholesale.

Homevid execs regularly face music-licensing issues because, until 10-15 years ago, TV music deals rarely included language that covered future releases in new media. (Now contracts state the usage is for "any and all media now known or hereinafter devised.")

Relicensing songs can cost $10,000-$40,000 each and sometimes much more. The numbers vary depending on prominence, use in the show and the language of the original contract. The Motown songs in season one of "Murphy Brown" reportedly cost nearly $1 million, while "The Wonder Years" has long been rumored as a DVD nonstarter because of the high-profile 1960s rock that was a staple of the series.

The first season of "The Fugitive" was released on DVD with nearly all its music intact.In most cases, there's not a problem with clearing the show's underscore, because most composers create TV music as a "work made for hire," and the production owns it outright.

But "The Fugitive" was not scored like most shows. Music editor Ken Wilhoit drew not only on Rugolo's library of "Fugitive"-specific music but on other libraries, primarily the CBS Music Library.

Just hours after the $40 "Fugitive" package hit the streets, angry fans began venting on Internet message boards. The popular Home Theater Forum website received hundreds of posts, using words like "fiasco" and "sickening," while the customer-review section at Amazon.com was rife with upset buyers decrying the "DVD defamation of the year."

On June 17, CBS Home Entertainment issued a statement saying, "Unlike season one, there were a large number of cues, the current ownership of which was not clear. ... We kept the original theme song but decided it would be better to rescore full episodes to give viewers a seamless, consistent experience throughout."

Sources suggested that the occasional use of music from the now-defunct Capitol Music Library was problematic and that confusion existed about which music was Capitol's and which belonged to CBS. Rather than guess, they replaced it all, including Rugolo's music, which often opened and closed acts and helped give the Quinn Martin-produced series musical consistency.

CBS Par execs refused to answer specific questions about the decision.

"It's a guessing game," said music attorney Steve Winogradsky, who is often called on to clear songs for old TV shows.

"Presumably, studios do research to determine (what) there's a market for," he continued. "That helps determine what the offer is for video rights (to the music)."

Fans are livid because the music of any classic series is familiar, and new music can be jarring even if written in a similar style.

Gord Lacey, editor of TVShowsonDVD.com, said he thinks CBS Par erred by failing to warn consumers, adding only a tiny disclaimer on the package ("some music may have been changed"). "If you're trying to sneak these releases out hoping nobody's going to notice you replaced all the music, it's not going to work," he said.

Lacey thinks such studio tinkering and failure to be upfront about altering classic product "is training the consumer not to buy." Worse, he worries that the result will be a boon to the ever-present market for bootleg DVDs. "A lot of these studio releases are pushing more people into buying pirated material," he said.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Interesting article.

It's nice to see that elements of the mainstream entertainment industry are now being exposed to this travesty. At the very least it may prevent studios from resorting to this kind of extreme music replacement again.

IF CBS/Paramount *had* raised public awareness of this issue before the set streeted, and *IF* the new composer had at least used more of the original themes created specifically for the show (instead of just subtly hinting at those themes) I *might* have considered purchasing this set. It's obvious that a great deal of work went into the release. The restored video is magnificent and an enormous amount of research had to be performed to provide a complete rescore of the music. But there is just no way that I can support the level of deceit that CBS/Paramount employed here.

As it stands, this release is a tragedy for both the studio and the fans. Let's all hope that studio executives are capable of learning from their mistakes.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Very good article. Thanks for the link. At least we are getting mainstream exposure now which surely should help the cause.

What burns me up the most is that it appears (sans the details that only CBS/Paramount can provide) that the company just took the easy road by not really trying to find out who owned the rights or how they could secure them. Seems to me they simply felt the "easier" thing to do would be to create their own background music instead of going the extra mile to at least try and secure the rights. And that stinks. Unless the studio comes back and tells us that they do know who has the rights, and that person or persons held them hostage with unreasonable financial demands, I'm laying the blame squarely on CBS's doorstep.

Gary "I'm so happy this is getting big time exposure" O.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Is that so? It got a bit snowed under, in this review thread.

You're probably right. Yet I'm not ready to buy the set.


From a different angle, when I'm saying I won't be buying: I've been thinking that we're pressing Paramount to do the right thing, but perhaps in another way we're not helping our cause.

Owners of audio tracks who are asking stiff fees, will not readily ask more reasonable prices, when reading these reactions of the public. Or, if they catch a studio using an unlicensed track, their demands won't be tempered.

On the other hand, if these season sets get fairly expensive, sales may work out to be disappointing too.

As it is, the studios might be between the proverbial rock and a hard place in some of these cases.


Cees

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Correct me if I'm wrong here but doesn't the Capitol Music Library consist solely of song material, i.e. the diegetic source music that is heard by both the characters and the viewing audience? I've always thought the CBS music library overwhelmingly consisted of thematic underscore, the kind of music written specifically for tv episodes (Goldsmith, Herrmann, Steiner, Van Cleave and the many other composers licensed to score episodic television). The more I learn, the more I realize that just a little more research was needed by Paramount. The end result being that, in similar fashion to S1, the worst we should have witnessed was just a couple more source music/song replacements rather than resorting to a wholesale swapping out of the series underscore.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I'm with you on this Michael. At least until we hear otherwise I'm becoming more and more persuaded that this was just a matter of CBS needing to work just a little bit harder. If we find out they were being held hostage, so to speak, then I'll be more forgiving. But right now it looks like the blame rests squarely on their shoulders.

Gary "I still can't believe this has happened to my favorite show of all time!" O.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I mean how difficult can it be to distinguish and nail down what is derived from Capitol and what is a part of the CBS stock music library, given some modicum of study, anyway?



No truer words were written, Gary. I would have rather had the stock music on "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea" replaced with Fred Astaire dance numbers.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

You know who's got to be feeling like total crap right about now? ... This poor schmoe composer Mark Heyes. Here he's been toiling in the background as a lowly music editor or supervisor for 20 years, has a minimal few composer credits, and he gets this gig. Now any free-lancer in L.A. knows this is still a great gig - probably several weeks of work recreating the score on an entire TV series season on his handy dandy synthesizer. Paramount's not shelling out any big bucks, mind you, cause it's some old show, but it's still a great gig. He can upgrade some equipment and probably not worry about the mortgage for a few weeks. And he even gets a credit!

Then ... the s*** hits the fans. And the fans raise some serious s***. And no matter how careful in mimicking the score, or creative in adding his own elements, he is exposed as a hack ruining art. He is villified and mocked - not directly, of course, but as an accessory to musical murder. And, suddenly, the idea of placing this on his resume to get more work is not such a good idea. How did it all go so wrong?

I add this comment on Heyes to the thread not to pile on or insult, but actually to briefly empathize, if just for a moment, on the plight of the poor, unsuspecting free-lancer who's cushy gig just went sour.

Some of us have been there.

Oh, well, hopefully the last check cleared. And you got the upgraded synthesizer. Just don't bank on that contract renewal.

And be careful where you brag about your last credit ... a Fuge fan may be listening.