New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews - Page 18  

post #511 of 1043
6/20/08 at 6:50am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Y
Funny thing is, session drummer Bernard Purdie has claimed they did exactly that back in 1964, and it's Purdie we've been hearing all these years! (It's nonsense, but a few of the Beatles' pre-EMI tracks with original drummer Pete Best were re-released in the US with another drummer overdubbed, and some have speculated this is what Purdie remembered.)
[Apologies for this being in the wrong thread. Moderator may move if so desired.]

Mark,

Yes, I've read of this over the years. W. Everett has some useful information on the Purdie recordings:

"All four Atco sides were altered in 1964 for these releases, through editing or by adding work from Atlantic session players Cornell Dupree (guitar) and Bernard Purdie (drums); see Gottfridsson 1997, pp. 222, 310, 313, 333, and 341."

See W. Everett, The Beatles As Musicians: The Quarry Men Through Rubber Soul (New York: Oxford University Press, 2001) p. 394 (nn. 3). See also p. 214 (Table 3.2, final entry).

The Atco tracks Everett refers to are on the Ain't She Sweet LP, Atco SD 33-169, released October 5, 1964 (Hamburg recordings from 1961). This is one of the over 250 Beatles LPs I own, and it is a treasure.
post #512 of 1043
6/20/08 at 7:21am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Gary,

Welcome back a 2nd time Yeah, I knew this news was best kept unknown until you got back from your vac.

It's ironic that, not long after that "Pedestal" ad that TSoD posted, we get news like the S2V1 soundtrack fiasco.

An fyi on the "DD Cart" thing that Gary noticed about the S2V1 (Fuge), I'm finishing up my DD cart today and tomororw (ouch $$$$'s), and I noticed that the same message appears in the cart for "Mission:Impossible" S4. ("shipps directly from Mfgr)". Interesting.

Running short of time this morning in Dallas, so I'll just say to Gary, as "Lt Gerard" would say....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt Gerard
"Mrs Taft, Don'l Leave Town!


It ain't worth the risk (Perry Mason S3V1, Rawhide future's) I'll pay you to stay in Fla
post #513 of 1043
6/20/08 at 9:40am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Von Pein
An e-mail address that is advertised in black-and-white at Paramount's website (in the "FAQ" section, btw) cannot be revealed in a post at HTF??
Yes it can.

First of all: there are different rules if someone displays his/her own e-mail address and when someone else publishes it. I think that is a rather clear distinction.

In the second place: you can publish it in a way that makes it harder for bots to read. I.e. adding "delete this part" (or so) to the address and/or paraphrase the @-symbol. A rather common practise on the web.

Something like that was done to the version in your post (yes it was me doing that). Any human reader would have been able to understand what the real e-mail address was and to use it if desired. (I don't know why it's totally gone from your post now.)


Cees
post #514 of 1043
6/20/08 at 10:41am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Wikipedia has now included a sentence about the music replacement issue in its Home Video section on "The Fugitive" . . . . .

"Many reviews of this third DVD set were highly negative because the entire original musical score for every episode was replaced with newly composed synthesizer music."

Link: The Fugitive (TV series) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
post #515 of 1043
6/20/08 at 3:34pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I hope people continue to press CBS/Paramount about this. I feel it is the only way to get the set redone.
post #516 of 1043
6/20/08 at 7:32pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Any human reader would have been able to understand what the real e-mail address was and to use it if desired. (I don't know why it's totally gone from your post now.)

I deleted it.
post #517 of 1043
6/20/08 at 8:12pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I have just sent my snail mail signed letter to Paramount Home Entertainment.

Everybody send one and get your friends to do the same.
post #518 of 1043
6/20/08 at 8:29pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I'm looking for a relevant post to add this to, but CBS/Paramount ain't done with us yet!

TVonDVD.com posted the back cover art for Untouchables S2 tonight and guess what? If you squint a bit, you can read the fine print:

"Some episodes may be edited from their original broadcast."

Oy.

Granted, nothing to really panic over, but given what happened with Fugitive...
post #519 of 1043
6/20/08 at 8:55pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Well I doubt that the disclaimer will go away regardless if CBS/Paramount decides to change their policies regarding using original sound/music.
post #520 of 1043
6/20/08 at 11:28pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

That disclaimer is standard now whether episodes/audio have been altered or not. So it really means nothing. And you never know till you play.
post #521 of 1043
6/21/08 at 3:45am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
CBS/Paramount decides to change their policies regarding using original sound/music
I don't think it's a "policy". I think it's honestly about getting the rights for DVD publication and how expensive they think they can afford to let them be.

Now, whether or not we agree with the outcome of their decision processes (and the way they inform potential buyers about it), that's another matter....


Cees
post #522 of 1043
6/21/08 at 3:52am
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I just watched the fourth season episode, "The Breaking of the Habit," a sequel to "Angels Travel on Lonely Roads." There is stock music in the episode (a cue also used in seasons 1-3), so I can confirm that there is stock in all four seasons.
post #523 of 1043
6/21/08 at 9:51am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carabimero
That disclaimer is standard now whether episodes/audio have been altered or not. So it really means nothing. And you never know till you play.

That's very comforting.

*sighs*
post #524 of 1043
6/21/08 at 6:48pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Before this thread slides into oblivion, I'd like to address an earlier comment Paul Mavis made, characterizing the replacement of an integral artistic component of the show (the music) as ultimately inconsequential because the creators weren't trying first to make art, they were trying first to "sell soap." In essence, it's not worth all this fuss--any old music will do.

Mr. Mavis is certainly entitled to his opinion. There's no question money is the bottom line. I haven't endured two decades in Hollywood scratching and occasionally starving trying to sell my wares because it's fun and games. I'm here to make money, to make a living. Most people who survive artistically in this industry for any length of time, however, will tell you that there are a hell of a lot easier ways to make a buck. It's tough; even so, I hope clinging to status or economic security never coerces me into safe cynicism.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I haven't spent the best years of my life putting art over that life, missing out on a lot, taking rejections and coming back for more, all because I'm trying to "sell soap." I'm aspiring toward something a little higher.

I'll always believe Peter Rugolo was too.
post #525 of 1043
6/21/08 at 8:42pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Just this morning, I finished watching the final three episodes of season 1. My plan was to buy Season 2, volume 1 today and dig in. And then I discovered this thread.

Oh... my... god.

Letter composed, ready to be mailed. Needless to say I won't be buying it. I'll (attempt to) watch the episodes via Netflix, but there's no way in hell I'll spend my money on this atrocity. And it truly is an atrocity, IMHO. As a longtime collector of soundtracks (The Twilight Zone and Outer Limits scores rank among my all-time favorites, film or television), this makes me heartsick.
post #526 of 1043
6/22/08 at 3:58am
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Fugitive Trivia--How much is the reward for information leading to the arrest of Richard Kimble?
post #527 of 1043
6/22/08 at 4:08am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

The $10,000 reward wasn't offered until the fourth season. I didn't think there was an amount listed before that.

Harry
post #528 of 1043
6/22/08 at 5:15am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

What award can we offer on the discovery of the identity and location of the legal owner of the sound tracks?


Cees
post #529 of 1043
6/22/08 at 10:59am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Perhaps "practices" might have been a better choice of words.

Regardless, I think the point was clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees Alons
I don't think it's a "policy". I think it's honestly about getting the rights for DVD publication and how expensive they think they can afford to let them be.Now, whether or not we agree with the outcome of their decision processes (and the way they inform potential buyers about it), that's another matter....
post #530 of 1043
6/22/08 at 12:41pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I don't think there is a legal owner of the stock cues or, if there is, perhaps it was felt it would cost too much money to figure out their identities.

Follow-up Trivia: What is David Janssen's real name?

We're on the honor system--no Googling allowed!
post #531 of 1043
6/22/08 at 12:43pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Actually, before the fourth season reward of 10,000, there was no reward, and several folks went to considerable trouble fingering Kimble only to find that out.
post #532 of 1043
6/22/08 at 3:56pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I hadn't planned on returning to this thread, but a friend alerted me to a post that attributed words and meanings to my original post that are entirely, flat-out incorrect.

Carabimero wrote: "Before this thread slides into oblivion, I'd like to address an earlier comment Paul Mavis made, characterizing the replacement of an integral artistic component of the show (the music) as ultimately inconsequential because the creators weren't trying first to make art, they were trying first to "sell soap." In essence, it's not worth all this fuss--any old music will do."

I never said any such thing, nor did anything in my post imply those thoughts. At all. As I stated plainly, I wasn't happy with the replacement of the music, either (something that seems to have been forgotten in the hate mail that I've received -- some of it quite demeaning personally -- since I posted on this forum). Never did I write "any old music will do," either.

What I did write -- and it's a subtle point -- has been entirely misconstrued by the poster who attributed those thoughts to me. When I mentioned "selling soap," that wasn't a defense of the replacement of the music -- as if this replacement was okay strictly because the program was a "product" first, and a work of art second. My point clearly stated that the studio releasing the DVDs now view The Fugitive in the exact same way the original producers and TV network viewed the The Fugitive -- as product first. What sells "soap" wins out -- every time, then and now. And according to Paramount, what sells "soap" for them now with The Fugitive is to replace the music, to avoid a potential lawsuit.

You can believe them or not -- that's up to you. But my words never implied it was okay to replace the music, and that any old music would do, because the show was "selling soap." If you're going to quote me, please do so correctly, and don't assign thoughts and context for me that simply aren't present in my original post.
post #533 of 1043
6/22/08 at 5:24pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Mr. Mavis, you wrote: "They didn't make The Fugitive first for 'art's sake.' They made it to sell soap."

However you slice it, that statement implies the music, created for The Fugitive, wasn't composed for "art's sake" either.

I may have taken your statement to its extreme conclusion, but I don't believe my characterization was out of context based upon your quote, which I reproduced above in its entirety.
post #534 of 1043
6/22/08 at 5:39pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

The price of gas and oil is skyrocketing....major floods destroy a vast amount of US food crops....Israel wants to nuke Iran....honeybees are disappearing...earthquakes and typhoons kill thousands around the globe....
and Paramount removes the beautiful Rugolo score from THE FUGITIVE.
Maybe this IS the end of days.....
post #535 of 1043
6/22/08 at 6:37pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

The word you obviously didn't take into account in that quote is "first."
"They didn't make The Fugitive first for 'art's sake.' They made it to sell soap."

That statement doesn't rule out that The Fugitive is art; only that it was initiated and created first to fulfill the requirement all network TV shows need to get greenlighted: will they be popular enough to attract advertisers. If you don't think that's true, then I suggest you speak to artists and producers and network people who make the shows we watch. Economics come first; art second.

But that doesn't rule out art -- anybody who read my reviews for The Fugitive can obviously tell that I think the show is indeed art. And anybody reading the rest of that post -- which you don't quote -- can see for themselves I never said the original music was disposeable. Only that the releasing studio thinks so, and we as consumers have to decide what to do about it.

You're reaching to twist my post into something it's not. That's obvious, too. I don't care if you disagree with my position on the show -- to each his own. But I'm going to call you out on this forum if you take my words and try and create your own reality with them.
post #536 of 1043
6/22/08 at 8:21pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

A few thoughts:

- David (Carabimero), you are my hero of the month. You deserve a lot of credit for breaking this story, as well as accepting the doubts of those on this site who questioned your integrity with class. Thanks for saving me approx. $60.00. I owe you.

- In addition to mailing my letter to CBS/Paramount, I also returned the two sets I purchased (one as a gift). Hopefully, more Fuge fans will do the same. It can only reinforce our determination to not be further screwed by CBS/Paramount.

- Paul Mavis is no more a "Fugitive fanatic" than I am an astronaut or a lion tamer. His uninformed review and subsequent pathetic attempts at explaining it away here certainly suggest that future "reviews" from him should be viewed as extremely suspect and unreliable.

-I view it as highly unlikely that CBS/Paramount will reissue this title with correct music. They have gone to great lengths and expense (relatively speaking) to release this version. I can't see them correcting their error, though I'd love to be proven wrong.

-CBS/Paramount has inflicted a LOT of damage to their credibility over this release, and subsequent non-explaination. I have supported them and their split season, minor music edits, logic for the most part. They have done a solid job overall in releasing their "classic TV" titles, compared to other majors. This deceitfulness has left a lasting mark, however. I will never again pre-order, or order a Paramount title without solid knowledge of it's contents.

-Though Hank is gone, he is not forgotten. Come back soon, Hank (if you haven't already).
post #537 of 1043
6/22/08 at 8:54pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Paul, you might want to read my original, unedited post again.

I originally characterized your statement this way: "....the creators weren't trying first to make art, they were trying first to 'sell soap'."

I carefully retained your word "first" not once, but twice. That's one more time than even you used it. And you say I overlooked it?

Once again, here is your original statement: "They didn't make The Fugitive first for 'art's sake.' They made it to sell soap."

Explain to me how I am "reaching" and "creating my own reality" for calling out the cynical emphasis in this viewpoint.
post #538 of 1043
6/22/08 at 9:15pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Mavis
The word you obviously didn't take into account in that quote is "first."
"They didn't make The Fugitive first for 'art's sake.' They made it to sell soap."

That statement doesn't rule out that The Fugitive is art; only that it was initiated and created first to fulfill the requirement all network TV shows need to get greenlighted: will they be popular enough to attract advertisers. If you don't think that's true, then I suggest you speak to artists and producers and network people who make the shows we watch. Economics come first; art second.

But that doesn't rule out art -- anybody who read my reviews for The Fugitive can obviously tell that I think the show is indeed art. And anybody reading the rest of that post -- which you don't quote -- can see for themselves I never said the original music was disposeable. Only that the releasing studio thinks so, and we as consumers have to decide what to do about it.

You're reaching to twist my post into something it's not. That's obvious, too. I don't care if you disagree with my position on the show -- to each his own. But I'm going to call you out on this forum if you take my words and try and create your own reality with them.
Quit while you're behind.
post #539 of 1043
6/22/08 at 10:20pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

ToddR2,

Thanks for your nice words.
post #540 of 1043
6/23/08 at 3:59am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carabimero
Paul, you might want to read my original, unedited post again.

I originally characterized your statement this way: "....the creators weren't trying first to make art, they were trying first to 'sell soap'."

I carefully retained your word "first" not once, but twice. That's one more time than even you used it. And you say I overlooked it?

Once again, here is your original statement: "They didn't make The Fugitive first for 'art's sake.' They made it to sell soap."

Explain to me how I am "reaching" and "creating my own reality" for calling out the cynical emphasis in this viewpoint.

You may call it cynical, but perhaps that's because you view the two as mutually exclusive: art and commerce. I don't. Without the "soap," there would be no Fugitive. I've said that before, but evidently, some don't like to hear that, because it drags the show out of its ivory tower discussions here, when the studios still view it as product first. We may not like that -- I know I don't, but it's true.

And again, you're creating your own reality when you say my post implied "any old music would do." It didn't, and any careful reading of it bears that out. Yours was just one last parting shot at me, as you said, before this thread went off into oblivion.

That's fine. I've been writing for some time, and I'm used to criticism. It goes with the territory. I just don't want thoughts and context applied to me that aren't there.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: TV on DVD and Blu-ray
This thread is locked