The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews - Page 16  

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I doubt very much that the original score tracks were "lost" in any way. The new composer(s) had to have timings to reference in their re-recordings. As pointed out previously...it's amazing that they could even do this at all because of the age of the source material and one might think the audio mix was a permanent fixture of the masters. This shows the music was on a separate element or section of the master film (usually with sound efx too....did they re-foley everything?)
John Elizalde is still with us in L.A. I wonder what he thinks about this mess.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Well, it now seems that I will wait for each new Paramount release to street and be reviewed before I make the decision to purchase. I will need to determine if there have been wholesale changes to shows I enjoy. This does not seem the proper way to treat "classic" television properties.

Doug

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

The official statement/explanation from CBS/Paramount doesn't ring true to me. And even worse, they've chosen to ignore the fact that although they think they did the right thing, many consumers do not. I think they're still hoping this whole situation is gonna blow over, but they're gonna have to do something if they expect anyone to continue to buy "The Fugitive".

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I'm happy that CBS/Paramount at least responded, though rather dismayed at the answer, which really is no answer at all.

We here had the "reason" nailed down a week ago, but it still doesn't explain specifically what snags they encountered that would cause such a wholesale change in the entire score track.

We're still left with the questions of whether or not CBS will have a change of heart and re-do these; whether future volumes will be affected; or even whether future volumes will be issued. It seems that the "pedestal" on which CBS/Paramount has placed THE FUGITIVE is the one next to the garbage can out back.

On another matter, while beginning the process of archiving the old VHS tapes of THE FUGITIVE, I've discovered another case of editing - a minor one, to be sure, and if this were the only thing edited, it would barely be worthy of a mention. Still, fans of classic TV who like stuff in its original form might care:

In the premiere episode of the second season, "Man In A Chariot", the second season open had not yet reached its final format. For most of the second season (and all of the third), the show's opening used a teaser culled from the upcoming episode. The transition going from that teaser to the episode credits is where this difference occurs.

In the final version of this opening, the final frame of the teaser picture "brick-wall pixelates" from top left to bottom right to reveal the famed "Kimble running down the alley" shot taken from his dream sequence in "Nightmare At Northoak", as William Conrad's standard narration intones, "The Fugitive - a QM Production." And this is what we witness on the new DVD in "Man In A Chariot."

However, in the NuVentures Video taped version, which I assume is how it originally aired (since it still has the ABC bumpers in place), the final frame of the teaser (Kimble looking in reaction to a G. Stanley Lazer comment) fades to black and the title sequence begins with the blackness of the "T" of the word "Fugitive" which then moves forward on the screen to reveal the title logo, all of which is on the background of Kimble in the railroad yard (like the end credits screen).

I've not yet moved on to the second episode in the tapes ("World's End")to see just when the "pixellated brickwall" officially begins, but it looks like it didn't start with "Man In A Chariot" originally. I'll check that later or tomorrow.

Harry

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

So how many think they will fix and re-issue S2V1?

Leave S2V1 as is and issue the rest of the seasons intact?

Leave S2V1 as is and destroy the rest of the seasons?

Drop the series altogether?

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Warners is having this same issue with the H-B cartoons since they've busted up the needle drop package that was used on Quickdraw and Wally Gator. This is a case where a studio realizes that they can't allow themselves at the mercy of various music publishers. You might be able to strike deals for 95% of the notes, but what happens with the guy who wants as much as the other 95% for his 5%?

There was a article the other day about how Madison Avenue coughs up $100,000 a pop to use songs in advertising. So of course when Paramount/CBS calls up a music publisher, they are in no mood to cut them a deal in order to give the fans of the show every original note. They are cut throat and bottom line since they no longer have fat royalty checks coming in from CD sales.

While it sounds harsh, if a studio can streamline the books by replacing the soundtrack with a work for hire score, they're going to be tempted to take that step instead of waste thousands of dollars on legal bills trying to get the deals. And they'll have to go back to the music publishers for another round for the next distribution version.

It stinks that there just isn't a set royalty rate like what gets charged to radio stations.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Gut instinct at this point?

Fugitive is a goner. They don't want to worry about music rights, so they're going to use this "issue" and "low sales" to justify pulling the plug.

I'd LOVE it if we could get Paramount/CBS to change their minds and fix the problems, but I am not optimistic.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Does anybody know anything about this site:

Link deleted by moderator; please see announcement at the top of this forum regarding bootleg sites.

Are these legit? Is it DVDs made from somebody's VHS collection?

Is it a scam?

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Bottom line for me.. the music changes have not made me enjoy this fine series any less, I have never seen the Fugitive and if I was'nt informed about this I would'nt have really noticed anything more than the style of Music is different. I agree the first season's Music cues lend a more atmospheric prescence to those stories, but the new music has'nt made me appreciate the fine storytelling any less. I could almost say the same thing about the B&W vs switching to Color for the final season, this series benefits from being in B&W, but I'm sure those color stories are good as well.

If the alternative is not being able to watch this series I have to sie with Paramount on this one, thou I agree the disclaimer should have been something to the effect that the shows been rescored.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I have just sent an email off to the above address, asking if the episodes are VHS copies, are they in english, do they have the original cues and have they been edited in any way. Not holding my breath.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Never mind

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Imagine Capitol Records releasing new remasters of all the Beatles albums but due to unresolved rights issues with Ringo, they decide to wipe all his drum tracks and have Phil Collins re-record all of them. Yes, the songwriting is still evident on all the tracks but should they be released as "the Beatles"??? Same thing applies here. They had NO right to change the music....since they were not part of the original creative team behind the show.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

well since Collins is a better drummer...................

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I've never seen The Fugitive (but have become very interested in buying the series). Since Im not familiar with the original score, im sure it wouldn’t affect my enjoyment of the show either way. However, I do sympathize with all you guys. If someone did something like this to The Original Star Trek series, I would go ballistic.

That being said, im just curious, if there were only two options:

1. Get all the rest of the Fugitive seasons released with altered scores.
2. Not release any more sets.

Which would you guys prefer?

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

OK then, Justin Hayward's (Moody Blues) voice getting replaced with Rod Stewart's.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Then you understand completely. The familiarity of the music plus the fact that the musical cues are indelibly grounded in the period which "The Fugitive" was produced is what makes the replacement so sacriligious. And yes, if Fred Steiner's and Sol Kaplan's scores to "Charlie X" and "The Doomsday Machine" were replaced, you can bet there'd be hell to pay.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Heck, for years STAR TREK fans bitched about "Goodnight Sweetheart" being missing from the home video version of "City On The edge Of Forever". That's the same kind of "song" licensing problem that have plagued the industry for years, but at least all of the STAR TREK cues written for the show were left intact.

I'm of a mixed mind about buying any more if offered this way. At this point I'd probably pass, since I find I can't enjoy the episodes on this set. The pictures are pristine and pretty, but the "off" music really ruins the experience, and doesn't leave me satisfied for having spent 50 minutes viewing the episode. Instead, I feel like I've wasted my time.

So, they might as well just stop issuing them as far as I'm concerned.

Harry

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

That's easy. Not Release any more sets.

Would you buy Star Trek if they rescored the music and digitally altered the end credits to add some modern day hack composer in the place of people like Alexander Courage, Sol Kaplan, etc?

And how would you feel if they did this after releasing season one intact?

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Your enjoyment might be affected if you first purchased the two season 1 volumes (which have almost all of the original music intact) and then purchased season 2, volume 1 with the replacement music. And that, therein, is the issue for many of the fans posting here and elsewhere. With soundtracks that are comprised of Pete Rugolo's original music and library music for both seasons, the logical question is why didn't CBS Paramount replace the music for season 1? The press release says that " . . . . unlike season one, there were a large number of cues, the current ownership of which was not clear." Although my memories are admittedly hazy (and I only have a few season 2 episodes on VHS), I don't recall any significant changes/differences in the music from season 1 to season 2 (however, I'm willing to concede that there might be). It's the inconsistency in CBS Paramount's presentation of season 1 and the first half of season 2, plus the haziness of their disclaimer that have angered fans.


I'm really on the fence on this at this point as "The Fugitive" has been among my top 5 series to collect on DVD. I had ordered season 2, volume 1 on release day (before learning about the music replacement) and will watch it and judge for myself whether or not I'll purchase anymore volumes. Of course, whether or not CBS Paramount (a company I do like for the most part) issues any more volumes after this black mark on a comparatively good track record of vintage TV-on-DVD releases is debatable.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

No thanks.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Sadly, I have to agree. I've wanted The Fugitive released for a long time, but the precedent this sets is too dangerous, not just for other unreleased shows, but for shows that could move to Blu-Ray in the future. Studios might do a cost-benefit analysis and decide that saving $X on music clearances is worth fewer sales times Y. We have to make it so that sales diminish to the point where skipping on the music clearances isn't worth it.

Altering shows in this fashion is unacceptable. That's it.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I noticed Perry Mason used plenty of library cues in the early episodes. I wonder if they will stay intact in future releases.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Sharon Osbourne had a new drummer and bassist redo the tracks to Ozzy's early solo albums so that she no longer had to cut checks to the old members.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

and did Ozzy's fans raise hell over it?

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Yes, it almost certainly had to have been.

I've gone back through the extensive and always-reliable archived news articles provided by TVShowsOnDVD.com and found that Fugitive S2, V1 was announced by CBS/Paramount on February 19, 2008, seven days before S1, V2 ever streeted. Here's the TVSoDVD blurb about it:

The Fugitive DVD news: Announcement for The Fugitive - Season 2, Volume 1 | TVShowsOnDVD.com

I thought that CBS had, indeed, announced S2, V1 even before S1, V2 was issued...they would almost certainly have HAD to, I thought to myself, since there was less than 3.5 months between the 2 release dates, and companies almost always announce a title about 3 to 4 months in advance.

Someone at the Amazon forum thread that I started yesterday had some interesting comments too, which made me start nodding my head in agreement with his assessment about the music (and, hence, how really lame CBS' June 17th response to this music disaster actually is). Although, I'll readily admit that I'm no expert about "music replacement" issues, and I (and this other fellow who wrote this message below) certainly could be dead-wrong. But it's more food for Fuge thought anyway.

Here's that post from Amazon:

"CBS/Paramount could have avoided all this grief by replacing what they didn't own with music they did. That would have left Rugolo's score alone. And if they wanted us to have a "seamless, consistent experience," they could have re-recorded the Rugolo cues orchestrally (not with synthesizers) and filled out the rest with either new music or new settings of Rugolo's themes."

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I'd vote for Little Ricky to do the re-mix.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

And a few of those very same cues from "Perry" were used years later in "The Fugitive" too. I was surprised to hear those cues in some of the late-'50s Perry episodes I have on VHS and DVD.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I really do think that such a re-issue could possibly happen. (Maybe it's just wishful thinking.)

But we're dealing with CBS and Paramount Studios here -- the same company that has listened to fan reaction in the past when it comes to messed-up TV-on-DVD releases (e.g., the screwed-up "Andy Griffith" S4 laugh tracks that were re-done and re-issued, via a free replacement program...and the "I Love Lucy" S4 set too, wherein a few small things got themselves corrected, with Paramount re-issuing fixed discs).

If anyone at CBS/Paramount is of the age to realize how huge "The Fugitive" TV series was in the 1960s, and if anyone there realizes how treasured this television series is to many people and potential DVD buyers (which they can't help but know by this time via the complaints they've received from angry fans), then it would seem to me that just plain old common sense (and business sense, to boot) would dictate that CBS fix this problem, similar to the problems they have "fixed" in the past with other DVD sets.

Let's be reminded one more time what CBS/Paramount said about "Classic TV" in one of its recent advertisements (and if "THE FUGITIVE" (1963-1967) doesn't qualify as top-notch "Classic TV" then no show qualifies):