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The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews - Page 15  

post #421 of 1043
6/17/08 at 5:38pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carabimero
...and digitally altering the credits. That was not a quick or easy thing to do...

Actually, checking Ric Easton's post a page or so back, it was apparently very easy to alter the credits, as he made himself the Production Manager!



Harry
post #422 of 1043
6/17/08 at 5:49pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I was speaking relatively, as for example compared to flipping a switch or performing some automated function (i.e. kill track one). Or, say compared to producing a separate card, which should have been done.

That the alteration is unprecedented in its intent is also half the point.
post #423 of 1043
6/17/08 at 6:02pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carabimero
I was speaking relatively, as for example compared to flipping a switch or performing some automated function (i.e. kill track one). Or, say compared to producing a separate card, which should have been done.

That the alteration is unprecedented in its intent is also half the point.

And of course I was merely making a point to praise Mr. Easton for his usual graphical prowess and used your edited quote to do so. The whole situation is so surreal that here we are a full week later still discussing it!

And there's still no answer.

Harry
post #424 of 1043
6/17/08 at 6:05pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I want my name on the credits! (And my second-cousin's mother's brother's aunt, too!)
post #425 of 1043
6/17/08 at 6:12pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Harry! I had given up on anyone noticing it! It sure does demonstrate the sneaking it in factor.

I think I'll executive produce a season of Star Trek next.
post #426 of 1043
6/17/08 at 6:16pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Ric, as usual your work is beyond compare...however you got sloppy there and put one too many dots before your name!

Edit: I know, I know...I get 100 posts in only a week and now I've become a poster who points out other people's insignificant errors just to get attention...see what a post count does to a guy!
post #427 of 1043
6/17/08 at 6:16pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
however you got sloppy there and put one too many dots before your name!

Doh!

I had to add a dot to get me to the end of the line, but forgot to take one away! I've been found out!

Oh, and although I discovered this thread late, I figured by the time I got to the end of it we'd have a statement from Paramount. Now, I'm just still waiting with you guys. Still seems unbelievable to me. Like messing with history.
post #428 of 1043
6/17/08 at 6:16pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric Easton
Harry! I had given up on anyone noticing it! It sure does demonstrate the sneaking it in factor.

I think I'll executive produce a season of Star Trek next.

It took me a little while, but after reading your post a second time, I got your reference to your "co-worker buddies" and re-examined the screen shot.

You may have a whole new career ahead of you: selling famous-looking screen credits with a client's name on eBay!

Harry
post #429 of 1043
6/17/08 at 8:40pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric Easton
Oh, and although I discovered this thread late, I figured by the time I got to the end of it we'd have a statement from Paramount. Now, I'm just still waiting with you guys.

Just a couple hours too soon to say that, Ric:
The Fugitive DVD news: Official CBS Home Entertainment Resonse to Music Issue | TVShowsOnDVD.com


There it is...official word!!

And yeah, I noticed your credit alteration immediately, Ric. Good job, as always! If you're exec producing Trek, can I be Capt. Picard?
post #430 of 1043
6/17/08 at 8:55pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

"Obviously we would have preferred to include all the original music in ‘The Fugitive’ second season DVD release, but unlike season one, there were a large number of cues, the current ownership of which was not clear. We didn’t want to disappoint fans by significantly delaying the release of the second season so we chose to replace the music. We kept the original theme song, but decided it would be better to rescore full episodes to give viewers a seamless, consistent experience throughout. Taking everything into consideration, we thought this was the best solution. We hope our track record on previous releases shows that we truly care about classic TV and its fans." -- Spokesperson from CBS Home Entertainment *

* = Courtesy of TVShowsOnDVD.com

--------

CBS said:

"We didn’t want to disappoint fans by significantly delaying the release of the second season so we chose to replace the music."

A really, really poor decision, CBS. I think almost every true fan of "The Fugitive" would have accepted a delay (even a very "significant" one) in the S.2 release if it meant tracking down (and acquiring) the proper rights for the original music.

And we must remember that there was only a 3.5-month gap between the release dates for S1,V2 and S2,V1. That's certainly not a long time at all (especially considering how long it took to get the Fuge DVD ball rolling in the first place).

I, for one, think this excuse given by CBS -- "We didn’t want to disappoint fans by significantly delaying the release of the second season so we chose to replace the music" -- is a very weak excuse....and it flies in the face of their so-called motto from one of their DVD ads, wherein CBS/Paramount claimed they propped Classic TV up "on a pedestal".

If they truly took their "on a pedestal" mantra to heart, a "significant delay" in the release of "THE FUGITIVE: S.2, V1" would have not only been the best possible move (in order to secure the music rights)....it would have been mandatory.



REPRISE (as I try to let the idiocy of this CBS policy sink into my cranium):

"We didn’t want to disappoint fans by significantly delaying the release of the second season so we chose to replace the music."

So, CBS is, in effect, saying that it's better to scrap all of the original, integrated Fugitive music just in order to put out an inferior product FASTER. Ridiculous.

Plus, CBS also seems to be hinting in that full blurb above (although it's not specifically spelled out this way) that some of the original Fugitive background music could have been placed on the S2,V1 DVD release...but instead of putting some of it on there, they thought it would be better to completely strip the whole half-season set of all of the original music, even the stuff that apparently IS bought and paid for by CBS DVD!

I'm really boiling mad now.

Although, as a footnote (which reduces my "boiling" point a great deal as I think about future Fuge releases), I think the press release by CBS (coupled with the large amount of negative reviews placed on the Internet about this music-substitution debacle) should probably bode well for getting the remaining episodes of "The Fugitive" released with the proper, original music attached to them. Because surely CBS (if they have anyone scouting the Internet and looking at the horrid reviews that the S2 release has received) won't fumble the ball a second time. Would they?
post #431 of 1043
6/17/08 at 8:57pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I am glad they overlooked the fact that Season one had pretty much the same score as Season two and they secured the rights to those episodes. I can't believe that it took them a week to issue that BS statement.
post #432 of 1043
6/17/08 at 9:06pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Well, there it is. I would have preferred a bit more in the way of an explanation, but didn't really expect more. What I am wondering is what they plan to do with future releases. I'd also like to know why its so hard to find out who has the rights... Seems to me if you cannot find the owner and an honest effort was made, well, that should be good enough. I'm sure there are a lot of hungry lawyers that would disagree.

Thanks for the word, David (er, Captain Picard)!
post #433 of 1043
6/17/08 at 9:10pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Gord Lacey just posted this official response from CBS Home
Entertainment regarding the music controversy:

We just received a statement from CBS Home Entertainment regarding the
music changes in The Fugitive Season 2, Part 1:
Obviously we would have preferred to include all the original music in
`The Fugitive' second season DVD release, but unlike season one, there
were a large number of cues, the current ownership of which was not
clear. We didn't want to disappoint fans by significantly delaying the
release of the second season so we chose to replace the music. We kept
the original theme song, but decided it would be better to rescore
full episodes to give viewers a seamless, consistent experience
throughout. Taking everything into consideration, we thought this was
the best solution. We hope our track record on previous releases shows
that we truly care about classic TV and its fans.
-- spokesperson from CBS Home Entertainment
---------------
As for me (Joyce), I would have much rather had a delay in the release
so as to give them time to clear the rights to the music cues rather
than to have had the core soundtrack replaced. We've waited decades
for the official release, we can certainly wait longer if it means
getting the true and classic Fugitive that we all love.
post #434 of 1043
6/17/08 at 9:13pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric Easton
Well, there it is. I would have preferred a bit more in the way of an explanation, but didn't really expect more. What I am wondering is what they plan to do with future releases. I'd also like to know why its so hard to find out who has the rights... Seems to me if you cannot find the owner and an honest effort was made, well, that should be good enough. I'm sure there are a lot of hungry lawyers that would disagree.

Thanks for the word, David (er, Captain Picard)!
The 2nd audio commentary of Kentucky Fried Movie mentioned they could never find the owner of a version of a obscure cover of "Somewhere Over The Rainbow" and had to put some money away in case the copyright owner turned up. The studios excuse makes no sense at all.
post #435 of 1043
6/17/08 at 9:20pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Von Pein
"Obviously we would have preferred to include all the original music in ‘The Fugitive’ second season DVD release, but unlike season one, there were a large number of cues, the current ownership of which was not clear. We didn’t want to disappoint fans by significantly delaying the release of the second season so we chose to replace the music. We kept the original theme song, but decided it would be better to rescore full episodes to give viewers a seamless, consistent experience throughout. Taking everything into consideration, we thought this was the best solution. We hope our track record on previous releases shows that we truly care about classic TV and its fans." -- Spokesperson from CBS Home Entertainment

News flash for CBS: if you had been upfront and said "There may be a delay while we try and resolve rights issues.", we probably would have tolerated it.

By instead totally removing all music and rescoring all the episodes, altering the credits to hide evidence and then not saying a darn thing for over a week, I'm sorry to say not even an excellent track record excuses this.

If CBS wants to make it up to us, make sure this doesn't happen for S2 V2 and fix S2 V1. As it is, I am sorry to say I am going to be very wary of buying anything classic from CBS again.
post #436 of 1043
6/17/08 at 9:35pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I'm so angry at the statement that I may go into a cave now and do a little research. I've always believed there were far more non-Rugolo cues in season one than in season two; I won't make that claim just now, but my instant emotional response to that statement is: it's a lot of b.s. in light of the music they left untouched in season one (assuming CBS/Paramount had the rights to Rugolo cues and not vice-versa).

Edit: I don't really give a flying flip about their track record (Gomer Pyle, anyone?)--they screwed the pooch on this one.

Edit #2: And notice they didn't address the issue of misleading disclaimers at all.
post #437 of 1043
6/17/08 at 9:43pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
I'm so angry at the statement that I may go into a cave now and do a little research. I've always believed there were far more non-Rugolo cues in season one than in season two; I won't make that claim just now, but my instant emotional response to that statement is: it's a lot of b.s., assuming CBS/Paramount had the rights to Rugolo cues and not vice-versa.

It just makes you want to scratch your head and ask:

What possible difference could there have been in the ownership rights to some background musical cues for a 1964 TV show between the time CBS/Paramount secured the legal rights for all of the 15 episodes for its Fugitive S1,V2 DVD set (released in late February 2008) and the rights to the almost-identical (if not exactly identical) music for the S2,V1 DVD, which was released to the public a mere 3.5 months later?

I'm still scratching my head, big-time, over that question.
post #438 of 1043
6/17/08 at 9:53pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

That buzzing sound you hear is the hornet's nest that has been stirred up again by the statement.

Bottom line, all they said was what we already surmised and David make a great point: did the situation change that much in just a few months? And while we're on the subject, did anyone notice the word "sorry" did not appear anywhere in the statement?

OK, enough with the "Yeah, me too! Wait for me, guys!" posts.
post #439 of 1043
6/17/08 at 10:02pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Right on, Clugul!!!!!! I agree with you wholeheartedly on that!!!!

To me, this CBS/Paramount disclaimer is of the CYA extraction.

And likely I would have gone for this volume on my recently-concluded birthday had CBS/Paramount been up-front to what was coming.

Will CBS/Paramound have learned its lesson from this Fuge Fiasco? Only time will tell.

Oh, and thanks, BTW, for the responses from Carab and others who have responded to some of the thigns I have posted on this particular thread. That is so very nice.
post #440 of 1043
6/17/08 at 10:13pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I still believe speculation from early on--some guy just brought up the rights ambiguities after S1V2 and somebody panicked and we see the end result of that panic. But if true, why are they not recalling the season one sets?

That statement doesn't address the melding of credits, although the word "seamless" was a fair crack at it; it doesn't address the misleading disclaimers...CBS was trying to hide what they did; I'll believe it to my dying day; otherwise they would have spun it as a selling point weeks ago--"Look what we did! Out of the goodness of our hearts, we did a whole new score!"
post #441 of 1043
6/17/08 at 10:17pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Yeah, silly me wanted honesty and the music on sale right now in the season one sets is proof I didn't get it.
post #442 of 1043
6/17/08 at 10:20pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I'm starting another letter. The words of their own statement shall be the basis for it.

Oh, I'm so pissed right now.
post #443 of 1043
6/17/08 at 10:39pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

The question is what is in store for FUGITIVE Season 2,volume #2?
post #444 of 1043
6/18/08 at 12:28am
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Here's my newest missive to CBS/Paramount. I gonna sleep on it and perhaps tweak it tomorrow.

To CBS/ Paramount:

In my letter of 12 June, I requested a press release to explain the wholesale music changes in The Fugitive, Season Two, Volume One. After reading your company's statement of 17 June, I'm writing to ask for an additional explanation congruent with The Fugitive's DVD release history.

Your spokesperson, in part, said: "... unlike season one, there were a large number of cues, the current ownership of which was not clear."

It's my belief that there are more non-Rugolo cues in season one, which you released intact, than there are in season two, which you gutted. Now suppose I'm wrong and the Rugolo cues are in legal limbo (or even a combination). I pose the same question: If worry over clearances was great enough to compel complete rescoring of season two, why are season one sets--containing note for note even more of the same music expunged from season two--still on sale?

Did knowledge of the licensers' identities suddenly cease to exist in the brief gap between the release of Season One, Volume Two and the much maligned Season Two, Volume One? Or did someone from legal suddenly appear in the interim and say, "Oh gee, guys, I hate to bring this up..."

Exactly what happened? Was the subsequent legal rationale and wholesale altering truly necessary? Could a more patient resolve have led to an intact release comparable to season one? And will the musical horrors continue with another release? Count me out if they do.

Your spokesperson went on to say, "We didn’t want to disappoint fans by significantly delaying the release of the second season so we chose to replace the music."

Fair enough. Personally I would have postponed the set, but that's a company call. Still, if your intentions were so fan-minded, why try to hide the music changes with disingenuous disclaimers and, in my opinion, unethically altered credits that make it appear nothing had changed? Why not prepare the fans you strive to respect so much?

Please. I'm asking for plain, honest answers to these specific questions.

I hope finding the way--and the will--to correct Season Two, Volume One is a priority. If all remedies are exhausted, if it can't be corrected, please discontinue your radically altered Fugitive releases.

Don't desecrate this classic any further.
post #445 of 1043
6/18/08 at 12:44am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeWilson
The question is what is in store for FUGITIVE Season 2,volume #2?
Poor sales is what's in store for Fugitive Season 2 Volume 2.
post #446 of 1043
6/18/08 at 1:53am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

"THE FUGITIVE: S2, V1" --- AN AMAZON.COM FORUM
post #447 of 1043
6/18/08 at 3:55am
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I just got out my home-made DVDs and watched MAN IN A CHARIOT and ESCAPE INTO BLACK. Felt so much better seeing them with the proper music. Really glad I have these old VHS transfers off A&E, even if the picture isn't quite as sharp. I feel bad for any FUGITIVE fan who doesn't have recordings of the original broadcasts.
post #448 of 1043
6/18/08 at 4:19am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carabimero
I feel bad for any FUGITIVE fan who doesn't have recordings of the original broadcasts.
Thanks for the sentiment, but hold the Kleenex®
post #449 of 1043
6/18/08 at 4:21am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Misguided motivations and flimsy excuses aside, I am surprised that CBS/Paramount has taken note and responded at all. Can the company now be convinced that the only acceptable solution is a re-issue of S2 V1 and an exchange/replacement program?
post #450 of 1043
6/18/08 at 4:37am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

It seems obvious that CBS/Paramount is playing fast and loose with the facts here:

1. As others have pointed out there were just as many "ambiguous" music cues in Season One as in Season Two. And Season One (both volumes) was released intact.

2. How on earth is it easier (and faster) to re-score every single episode in this volume in the time alloted? This decision had to have been made *before* Volume 2 of Season 1 hit the streets! Just the fact that the new cues are in nearly identical places to the old cues indicates clearly that a great deal of work and research was performed on the replacement of the original background music. There is no way in the world they could have started this work in February of 2008 and have this set on the streets in June. This decision would have had to have been made after Volume 1 of Season 1 was released. And, yet, they released Volume 2 of Season 1 intact anyway?

3. Instead of providing a "seamless" experience, the replacement music can only be considered "jarring" to the hard-core fans which should have been the primary target for this release.

Sorry, but this "statement" makes absolutely no sense on many levels.

Hypothetically speaking, if the original music from Season 2 had been lost (due to a tragic accident) during the process of separating the musical scores from the foreign dialog tracks, and it was therefore mandatory to replace the scores, then what Paramount did could have been considered "heroic". (As long as they forewarned the fans about the replacement music before the volume streeted.)

But the statement that they released shows a complete disdain for the hard-core fans of the series while simultaneously casting the executives at Paramount as complete fools for expending the time, energy, and money to completely replace all the music in every episode "in order not to delay the release"!

I'm *astounded* by this "statement"!!!
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