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The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews - Page 14  

post #391 of 1043
6/16/08 at 10:46pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

"We put it [TV on DVD] on a pedestal."

After being exposed to the Fugitive S2, V1 release, the above sentence from CBS/Paramount reeks with disingenuousness.

post #392 of 1043
6/16/08 at 11:04pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Lucy pulling the emergency brake and everyone goes flying.

"Did YOU pull that cord?!" -- Frank Nelson in "I Love Lucy" episode

Jack Benny fans, of course, will recall Frank Nelson in the various roles he played in Benny's TV and radio shows. Frank was always a riot, and was given some of the funniest lines on the Benny Program, e.g.:

"Well, who do you think I am -- Drear Pooson?!"*

* = The Benny writers would sometimes immediately change some of the script in improvised fashion after a goof-up by a member of the cast, as evidenced by the above Nelson hunk of hilarity, said shortly after Don Wilson mangled newsman Drew Pearson's name, calling him "Drear Pooson". Thank goodness those were live shows....it made them all the funnier because of gaffes like that one.




Quote:
What I find hard to believe is Kimble always hurriedly tossing his duffel bag away presumably in order to run faster during a sudden pursuit."

I haven't been able to figure out why Kimble ditches his suitcase in the trash can after fleeing the proverbial "Edmund Hotel" in "World's End"? He probably could see the taxicab that he got into BEFORE he ditched the suitcase, but he tossed it away anyway. He then walks a few more feet and gets into a cab. Seems to be a wasted and unnecessary suitcase-tossing effort. Very curious.

Perry?
post #393 of 1043
6/16/08 at 11:13pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Maybe he figures they're looking for a man with a duffel bag and figures by tossing it he won't fit the description.
post #394 of 1043
6/16/08 at 11:29pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Has anyone received a response from CBS/Paramount after sending their e-mails? I haven't.

Worth repeating.....

Here's the message I sent to Paramount:

==================================================

Subj: "The Fugitive" (Season 2, Volume 1)
Date: 6/11/2008
To: PHE_CustomerService@Paramount.com


Paramount Home Entertainment,

As a fan of one of your current DVD properties -- "The Fugitive" (1963-1967 TV series) -- it was very disheartening to discover that all of the background music for the Season 2, Volume 1 DVD release has been replaced with different musical cues and bridges.

These sweeping changes to the music, affecting all 15 episodes of the DVD collection, as I'm sure you've been made aware of by now via a flood of angry e-mails from disappointed fans, essentially destroys the mood and ambience of each "Fugitive" program.

Is there any possibility of releasing fixed DVDs for Volume 1 of Season 2 of this classic TV treasure, to replace the horrid release that you marketed on June 10, 2008?

To leave "The Fugitive" in the musical state you have left it in on the Season 2, Volume 1 DVD aggregation is akin to spray-painting the Mona Lisa with graffiti and then propping it up in an art gallery for all to see. In effect, it amounts to mutilated artwork in its current form with the wholesale substituted musical arrangements.

Please fix these "Fugitive" DVDs, and bring your company back up to the standards for which I have greatly admired since I first started collecting DVDs several years ago.

CBS/Paramount has been one of the best studios, in my own experience, when it comes to releasing first-rate DVD products. If that benchmark in quality is to continue, something must be done about repairing the damage that has been done to one of your very best TV properties -- "The Fugitive" starring David Janssen.

A television institution like "The Fugitive" doesn't deserve a second-rate, hacked-up DVD release. It deserves the treatment that your company gave to the first two DVD sets of "The Fugitive" -- high quality DVD transfers....including the original music.

Thank you for your time.

Regards,
David R. Von Pein

==================================================
post #395 of 1043
6/17/08 at 12:11am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
I've thought often of our friend Gary "insert quote here" OS as we've wound our way slowly through this thread. Hopefully, he'll be OK and make it through unharmed!

I still recall how bad I felt for Gary when I broke the news about the "Route 66" transfers--he was just coming back from a vacation then as well, if memory serves me correct.

I'm just returning home from a long business trip myself and am absolutely heartbroken and stunned beyond belief upon reading the tragic news of the wholesale music replacement. In other "Fugitive" threads, nearly every time I mentioned how much I enjoyed a S1 episode, I often referred to the underscore and how well cues by Fred Steiner, Leonard Rosenmann, Herrmann and Goldsmith fit into various episodes.

This is without a doubt the most disappointing news I ever had the misfortune of reading about with regards to a classic tv on dvd release. I was so looking forward to purchasing S2 and even brought S1, V2 with me on my trip so that I could watch "The End Game" in the comfort of my hotel room. The music was fabulous in that episode, possibly the best underscore for the season, much of it seemingly composed specifically for the episode. I can really appreciate how badly Harry-N and David must feel after reading their numerous posts over the last 14 pages of this thread.

I must take a sleeping pill now and just try my level best to get some sleep. I know now that I just can't bear to purchase the set--something I could never imagine thinking before I left for my trip.
post #396 of 1043
6/17/08 at 12:37am
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I want to reiterate--if you've taken the time to compose a well-worded letter like DVP's, or even a short direct letter, I encourage you to take the extra time to print it and mail it. As a former editor I can tell you that I, and other editors I worked with, virtually ignored unsolicited emails. There's just too many of them because it's too simple to click and send.

Please write, print out hardcopy, sign your letter, stuff it in an envelope, stamp and mail it. I can't emphasize that enough. Get a name if possible and address it to someone specific. It's not that difficult if you're willing to make the effort. Being e-angry is easy. It takes a little more time to present yourself professionally with the kind of class that carries clout. But it pays huge dividends.

As to a response, if Gord has yet to receive one from a personal contact, I hold little hope of receiving one from someone who doesn't know me from Adam--and I wrote three physical letters.
post #397 of 1043
6/17/08 at 3:37am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatOz
The song was gone in the S3 DVDs.

And the End Credits were changed to reflect that replacement.

I didn't realize that. I just thought, from reading Gord's article, that the substitutions started with S4. Of course, I'm not much of a "MWC" fan, so it was just a guess.
post #398 of 1043
6/17/08 at 3:47am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff*H
Even more unusual was the fact that CBS Paramount included a lengthy disclaimer on the HAWAII FIVE-0 S2 box noting that the episode "Bored She Hung Herself" aired once as part of Season 2 and was not included on the set, alerting fans in advance to the omission. Why they would go above and beyond with their disclaimer on that set but not THE FUGITIVE indicates that their left hand may not know what their right hand is doing all of the time.

You are absolutely correct, Jeff*H. My copy included that too. I can understand CBS leaving off an episode of "Hawaii Five-O" possibly for legal reasons or that sort of thing, and of course, their disclaimer about them leaving it off because it only aired once is much appreciated. You are also correct that their failure to go above and beyond with indicating music changes on "The Fugitive" indicates failure of the left hand to know what the right hand is doing.
post #399 of 1043
6/17/08 at 4:22am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmasters9
I didn't realize that. I just thought, from reading Gord's article, that the substitutions started with S4. Of course, I'm not much of a "MWC" fan, so it was just a guess.


Gord goofed when he said "fourth"...I missed seeing it when I read his editorial myself. I changed it just now.

I don't recall if Gordo likes MwC or not, but I think he's an enjoyer of the show (but not a super-fan). However, I'm a longtime fan of the show. In fact, before Gord recruited me to beta test this site he was building called "TVShowsOnDVD" - it's really HIS baby, Matt, but I guess I'm the site's "nanny"! - he first saw me hanging around here at the HTF, answering questions about Scooby-Doo episodes and sporting a signature that tried to convince studios to release certain shows on DVD. MwC was one of them.

Hey! In fact, I still have that sig!
TV-DVD.jpg

Hmmm...Looks like I got everything I initially wanted at the time. Sorta. WKRP certainly pertains to this thread, in a way...
post #400 of 1043
6/17/08 at 5:30am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carabimero
I'm not going to rant and rave, I'll just say that with the exception of the opening and closing title, every piece of music in all the episodes on disc one has been altered (I only spot-checked the rest and they were changed as well). This is hardly The Fugitive without the great music. I know I am in the minority and others may think it makes little difference, but to me the music is half the show. It's too painful to watch, so I'm giving my set away and not buying any future sets where ALL of the music has been replaced.

I didn't complain too much when non-instrumental music in season one had been changed--music on juke boxes, etc., because that music was not composed for the show. They REMOVED ALL the music composed for the show. I could understand if they even replaced the stock music (cues heard in other shows like The Twilight Zone, etc.), but they REMOVED ALL OF MUSIC COMPOSED FOR THE SHOW except the opening and closing titles. What the....?

I still can't believe it. I've waited for years for this show to come out on DVD. I am tremendously sad and disappointed. I sat there in front of the TV and couldn't believe what I was hearing.

Why would Paramount/CBS do this? I can understand them not wanting to deal with clearance issues for a series that will probably sell modestly. But how can it be a clearance issue when it's ALL the music composed specifically for the show? The only thing I can think of is that they didn't want to bother figuring out what was stock and what wasn't, so they replaced it all.

I thought maybe it was a contract clause about using the music on newer media, but the same music they changed in S2 V1 is the same music they used in the season 1 sets.

I still can't believe it. Part of me thinks if I go to bed and wake up in the morning and put the DVD back in, it will all have been a bad dream.

I thought the show only used those twilight zone music cues in the first season because of budget restraints, once a hit, they scored the show on it's own.. I've never seen season two but the scoring sounds original to me.
post #401 of 1043
6/17/08 at 5:31am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Since Paramount/CBS went to seemingly great lengths to please (seemingly) a handful of INVADERS fans by seeking out bonus material for that DVD release and filming new intros and interviews with Roy Thinnes....what are the chances that they will again respond to MORE than a handful of FUGITIVE fans' protests about the rescored release? Look at the Amazon.com reviews of S2V1...they certainly should "get the message" if anyone there reads these things.
I just cannot imagine watching an episode like "Nemesis" and the scene where Gerard arrives at the fish hatchery as Kimble looks out the window without the "Gerard Theme" and the "Kimble in danger" theme that slowly builds tension.
post #402 of 1043
6/17/08 at 5:43am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry-N
Fully understandable.

As I said, I'm keeping mine. At some point, when the "hurt" dies down a bit, I'll probably be able to look at these episodes. But it will always be with a good deal of sadness at what could have been.

I still have the bulk of these on videotape from either NuVentures or the old WWOR reruns, so if I need to hear the music, I'll be able to dig those out. I also have the score on CD, so that can help out too.

Harry
...hoping David Von Pein is OK - we haven't yet heard from him on this...

I think since I never saw these It would bother me more, the music I though was a bit modern for the time period, but it's not awful, I want to continue my odyssey with Kimble so I'll continue but I'm dissapointed in Paramount the would not treat Trek this way.
post #403 of 1043
6/17/08 at 9:11am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Hey, I LOVE the Frank Nelson reference.

Weeeeell I'm sorry, YOU DIDN't win!

Best Lucy guest ever!
post #404 of 1043
6/17/08 at 9:17am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

The folks at "RichardKimbleTheFugitive" site have put up comparison sampler videos between the new DVD and the old music. Those that haven't heard the new music can get an idea here:

The Fugitive Escape into Black

Harry
post #405 of 1043
6/17/08 at 10:24am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

What's interesting in the comparison of the two teasers + credits is the timing difference. The speedup on the old taped gets through the sequence in 1:35, while at the correct speed it takes 1:44 and the last word is cut off. So in just that short sequence, there's around a ten second differential.

Harry
post #406 of 1043
6/17/08 at 10:29am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Harry,

Thanks for the link. It's a great idea but perhaps it's just my PC setup. I don't hear the music for either of the "original music" choices. I can hear the music for both of the "new music" choices though. I can also view the video clip for both. I'm using Windows Media Player on my PC.
post #407 of 1043
6/17/08 at 11:41am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

"The Fugitive" was on my DVD radar for years, then with news of its release, it was on my automatic-purchase list. Sadly, the series is now on my "abandoned DVD series" list, as what CBS/Paramount has released as the first half of season 2 is entirely foreign to me. Even sadder is that the outcry from loyal enthusiasts and serious appreciators of the series will go unheard, not unlike the way in which the music score replacement will go unnoticed to the show's casual fans (such as Paul Mavis). We are unfortunately in the minority...and in turn, a mere annoyance to the studio, which will in all likelihood continue this desecration of The Fugitive in subsequent DVD releases, and which will no doubt continue to vandalize other vintage television productions in similar fashion.
post #408 of 1043
6/17/08 at 11:59am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Willis
Harry,

Thanks for the link. It's a great idea but perhaps it's just my PC setup. I don't hear the music for either of the "original music" choices. I can hear the music for both of the "new music" choices though. I can also view the video clip for both. I'm using Windows Media Player on my PC.

I noticed on my PC's that the audio for the old version only played in the right channel. Perhaps your PC's left channel is missing/disabled/not connected properly.

The old version is also rather rough, particularly the Act I beginning. It looks like a well-worn tape with lots of wear spots.

Harry
post #409 of 1043
6/17/08 at 12:18pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Stock music cues continued into at least the third season, an example being LANDSCAPE WITH RUNNING FIGURES, which utilized music from the TZ episode "The Grave."

Honestly, I don't consider myself an expert on The Fugitive's fourth season, although I am familiar with it.
post #410 of 1043
6/17/08 at 12:36pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carabimero
Stock music cues continued into at least the third season, an example being LANDSCAPE WITH RUNNING FIGURES, which utilized music from the TZ episode "The Grave."

Sadly, I don't consider myself an expert on The Fugitive's fourth season, although I am familiar with it somewhat.

It's kinda Ironic that a series that used Recycled cues , is a victim of getting its music replaced, but if alot of it was recycled to begin with are we really missing anything.
post #411 of 1043
6/17/08 at 1:13pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Scarpa
It's kinda Ironic that a series that used Recycled cues , is a victim of getting its music replaced, but if alot of it was recycled to begin with are we really missing anything.

The series used "recycled" cues, as you say, but did so effectively, and some of those cues are indelibly imprinted on the brains of the shows fans.

Cues from TWILIGHT ZONE's "Back There" were used so well in "The Girl From Little Egypt", for example, that some FUGITIVE fans might associate that music with their show.

Largely however, the complaints from FUGE fans regarding the replacement are from the lack of Rugolo cues. Those were composed FOR the show, specifically, with certain ideas in mind for their use. John Elizalde made great use of those cues for the greater portion of all episodes, with the stock cues being flown in as extras for filling certain kinds of scenes that the Rugulo cues weren't suited for.

Bottom line is that the times that this new music "hurts" the most is at the beginning of the "Acts". That's typically when a standard Rugulo cue would be used, and they almost acted like little themes for little shows. It's jarring to see the title and Act # on screen and not hear the familiar cues.

During the middle of the acts proper, a cue for dramatic emphasis with some low brass playing a non-melodic flourish might go unnoticed by almost anyone. Those kind of cues aren't what we're complaining about - it's those signature Rugulo theme-like cuse that have us in a tizzy.

Harry
post #412 of 1043
6/17/08 at 1:14pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Here's the link again that Bob Hug provided earlier (easy to miss considering the activity in this thread):

The David Janssen Archive

This is certainly not a comprehensive list as the page indicates and in fact only five episodes are listed for S1. Of the 30 episodes in S1 I only came across one which did not feature a cue recognizable to me.

I understand what Dave is saying but to me it's like the "Outer Limits" without the "Stoney Burke" cues--they feel as though they were expressly composed for OL, especially since I'm unfamiliar with SB. Yes, the "Twilight Zone" scores are familiar to many but they work exceptionally well in my opinion and capture the flavor of the era in which "Fugitive" was produced. Recall too that by the early 60s CBS had amassed a large library of stock music which it had at its disposal--it was the rare show that had original compositions for every episode. Off hand I can only think of two dramatic series from the 60s that had an original score for every episode made: "I Spy" and "High Chapparal". So we would naturally expect a siginificant portion of an episode to feature stock music but there is also 75-90 minutes of music specifically scored for "The Fugitive" by Pete Rugolo--a portion of which was incorporated into every episode.
post #413 of 1043
6/17/08 at 1:37pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by michael_ks
I understand what Dave is saying but to me it's like the "Outer Limits" without the "Stoney Burke" cues--they feel as though they were expressly composed for OL, especially since I'm unfamiliar with SB.

Michael, you can gain a little familiarity with "Stoney Burke" here:

TV4u - Your source for online comedy television

It's the one and only episode (titled "Point of Entry") from the series that's in the public domain and has been released on DVD by a few companies like BCI Eclipse and Mill Creek. One of the cues in this episode even turns up later in "The Rat Patrol." Some of the cues from this particular episode appear in the fourth season of "The Fugitive" according to the Janssen Archive link. And as always, "Stoney Burke" remains one of my "most wanted" unreleased series on DVD, save the one PD episode.
post #414 of 1043
6/17/08 at 1:48pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carabimero
...because it's too simple to click and send.

Use regular mail with processed tree carcass because with email "it's too simple to click and delete!"
post #415 of 1043
6/17/08 at 1:58pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

We are missing the way the shows have aired for 40+ years. Period. (In my opinion, some of the music "recycled" for the Fugitive suits it better than what the stock was original composed for).
post #416 of 1043
6/17/08 at 2:01pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

The GreatOz makes a good point about email being easy to delete; but technically even unsolicited, unread emails are as a matter of practice not deleted. My agent, for example, doesn't read unsolicited email, but keeps it on a partitioned drive for legal reasons. I suspect CBS/Paramount do the same.
post #417 of 1043
6/17/08 at 2:07pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
It's the one and only episode (titled "Point of Entry") from the series that's in the public domain

Bob, thanks for reminding that I'm not totally unfamiliar with "Stoney Burke" as I did see this episode earlier when the link for TV4u was posted in another thread. An enjoyable episode with Antoinette Bower and Englishman Ben Wright--portraying a Mexican cantina waiter no less.
post #418 of 1043
6/17/08 at 2:45pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carabimero
Yes, it figures Kimble got banged up. And he well might have. We don't see what happens, so we don't know.

Gerard even comments that Kimble has always had "some intangible" working for him. Maybe that's part of it.

But I agree...as much as I want to explain it away, the good doctor would have at least sustained some broken bones, you would think.

So thinking that way, it would make more sense for Gerard to stop, because even if it took time to find Kimble, chances are the fall would have killed or immonilized him.

You're right.

(But it's still my favorite episode!)

Being a medical doctor, Doctor Kimble had some well known connections in his field...his leap from the train resulted in him fracturing both of his legs...however...both Drs. Kildare and Ben Casey were on the scene post haste and performed some rather miraculous surgery on our hero...
post #419 of 1043
6/17/08 at 4:09pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

The complaints, returns, and bad reviews just keep coming in....check Amazon's customer reviews for example. It seems Paramount is gonna have to make a comment pretty soon. I wonder what the chances are of them re-releasing this set with the correct music and an apology to consumers? I'll bet someone's head will roll at the DVD production offices.
post #420 of 1043
6/17/08 at 4:45pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I keep going back to the fact that SOMETHING made them take the extraordinary step of rescoring the entire run and digitally altering the credits. That was not a quick or easy thing to do and I have a hard time believing the decision wasn't based on something tangible. That's why I find these comments about "heads rolling" hard to swallow.

Firing people isn't the answer. Finding out if something can be done to correct the sets, and hopefully correcting them, is a much more worthwhile pursuit for CBS/Paramount to spend their energies on.

That doesn't mean that a week later I'm not still mad as hell.
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