New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews - Page 2  

post #31 of 1043

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I offer a full apology, Carabimero. Like Harry-N said, with all the people on the internet who make stuff up for no reason and that what you were saying seemed so unbelievable, I really doubted the validity of your info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywoodaholic
Is there a separate rights agreement for the background music on the show that has to be cleared, and perhaps the composer didn't like the treatment first time around? We definitely have a mystery here.
Yeah, it seems that way but how could this be the first time that there was an issue with the score? There's been literally thousands of movies and TV shows released, why is this one effected?
post #32 of 1043
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I think it's safe to assume that at least the rest of season two will be defamed this way.

Guess I'll stick with the recordings I made off A&E in the 90s and subsequently transferred to DVD. They're pretty crappy by comparison, but at least they're the authentic show.

I even toyed with the idea last night of taking the audio off those A&E recordings and syncing them with reworked versions of these new transfers..but my wife pointed out how insane that would be, particularly since those A&E episodes were trmmed.

She told me to wait and some incredibly loyal fan would probably end up doing it...we can only hope.

Edit: Thanks for the apologies, guys. I should've come to this board a long time ago. But I'm here now and look forward to chatting with you about happier things down the road.
post #33 of 1043

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

This is sickening ... trashing the music is bad enough, but digitally altering the credits to cover their tracks somehow makes me want to vomit even more. I mean, they couldn't dummy up an extra title card with the new names and stick it on the end? Like nobody would catch 'em anyway? I may do some digging into this, or at least some comparisons, and report further on my blog.

(And the A&E broadcasts were time-compressed, so the audio wouldn't sync up anyway. Except for a handful of 16mm transfers, I doubt that there's a "gray-market" set in circulation that's not timesped.)


Stephen Bowie
Classic TV History
post #34 of 1043

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

This makes no sense whatsoever. It's UNDERSCORE. There are no licensing issues associated with that type of music. It was a work for hire and was contracted specifically for the show. This reeks of some moron who doesn't know any better thinking there could be a problem where none existed and deciding to take every bit of music out because they were afraid they had no paperwork and someone could sue them later. But that's not going to happen. I tell you, this is just getting crazier and crazier. Just when we thought that the Route 66 debacle was the most idiotic thing done, this comes along. It's like a game of Moron Can You Top This. Who can come up with the craziest way to destroy a classic show. I can't wait to hear the BS excuse they come up for this one.
post #35 of 1043

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Okay... this definitely sounds horrendous. But I have to ask here.... I'm a complete newbie to THE FUGITIVE. I bought all of Season One blind, and I've enjoyed it. I was completely planning on buying Season Two as well (and beyond). But being that I have no knowledge at all of this series, will it be palatable to a new fan who doesn't know what he's missing?

Whatever the case, I can certainly feel for the diehard fans of this show. And what's more, I think Paramount is going to feel their wrath with this one. This sounds worse than all their other TV bastardizations combined...
post #36 of 1043

RE: MUSIC CHANGES WITHIN "THE FUGITIVE" S2, V1 DVD RELEASE

Quote:
Where's David Von Pein?

I'm here....but somebody's going to need to help me pick my jaw up off of the floor. It's stuck there for good I think (and it hit the floor hard when I started reading this thread).

I haven't received my S.2 set yet (it should arrive tomorrow from Amazon). But this is simply....unbelievable. I can't think of a more apt word for it. To remove such an integral and mood-enhancing part of "The Fugitive" by ripping out its original music is akin to watching a talkie with the sound completely off.

I just cannot believe this was released like this -- ESPECIALLY from a studio (CBS/Paramount) that has been so very good at releasing (for the most part) uncut shows in pristine form.

We have the syndicated versions of many of these Season-Two episodes being available (in past years) in full, uncut form with the proper Pete Rugolo music and musical cues--such as the A&E broadcasts from the 1990s that I have on VHS, and every original musical cue is intact...plus the NuVentures VHS videos and the Republic VHS tapes, which have the original music intact (like this Republic Video cassette)--but when we get to the DVDs, we have to endure this music-replacement torture?? I cannot fathom it.

And so many great S.2 episodes are in this S2/V1 set -- "World's End", "Man In A Chariot", and "Nemesis", to name but three. I cannot stand the thought of the fabulous original music being replaced by some other music for these shows. As Harry has said earlier, I think it might just be too painful to watch (knowing what SHOULD be there, but isn't).

Hopefully enough fans of this exquisite series known as "THE FUGITIVE" will make a big enough stink so that Paramount will feel compelled to right this atrocious wrong. They did fix a problem with some "Andy Griffith" laugh tracks a while back, remember. So they aren't totally unreasonable when it comes to responding to public opinion and/or outcries (and I can only assume that Paramount didn't fix those TAGS tracks on their own, sans any outside prodding from some angry consumers).

But this type of wholesale, across-all-episodes music changes to one of the best and highest-rated TV series in history--"The Fugitive"--is just too much to take lying down, IMO.

I can't even figure out why Paramount would even bother releasing a set like this in totally-edited form in the first place, with every piece of music changed!

Wouldn't they assume that a large outcry and revolt from the many Fuge fans would be immediate and overwhelming?!

I'm not sure I can even stand to open the package when it comes tomorrow--or whenever it comes.

I've been a fan of this great David Janssen TV series for a long time, and have enjoyed each of the 30 first-season shows on DVD (the S.1 episodes are fabulous, with top-notch DVD quality from the same company that has ruined Season 2)....and I very rarely make any kind of a big deal out of a small edit here and there in DVD releases (e.g., the small "Mary Tyler Moore" musical edits that pop up in a couple of those DVD sets don't really bother me much at all)....

But when every episode has all of its music changed -- it's just too much. How could it not be "too much" for a fan of this superior television series?

Paramount must fix this.

Not fixing this appalling hack job that has been done to one of the finest shows ever to grace the tube would be like leaving a bunch of graffiti all over the Mona Lisa and not caring about it at all.

Paramount's next brilliant move -- Replace Angie Dickinson in the Season-Two [Vol. 2] episode "Brass Ring" with a digitally-inserted Irene Ryan. Nobody'll give a damn. Nobody will probably even notice the difference between Angie and Granny.

(I'm going to take an aspirin...or two. I can't believe I had to write the post I just now wrote.)

~headache icon goes here~
post #37 of 1043

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Yeah, I mean how much idiotic can it get? The next step would be to re-shoot the whole show with a new set of actors, new directors, a new set of scripts, new score etc. That way they want have to pay any royalties!! I'm obviously joking but seriously this is madness.
post #38 of 1043

RE: "THE FUGITIVE" S2, V1 MUSIC CHANGES

And what's even more maddening is the fact that we're having to pay more money for the hacked-to-pieces S2, V1 DVD release! It's 3 full dollars more (MSRP) than S1, V2.

$$ comparison.

So we have to pay Paramount more to have music substituted.

Amazon's got S1, V2 on sale for just $18 now, btw. That is, indeed, a steal. But I feel like I just had $29 stolen from me (that's what I paid for S2, V1).

And it's good to see that the last 8 reviews (as of this writing) at Amazon for this Season-Two abomination are all 1-Star reviews from really pissed-off Fuge fans.

In addition, it seems amazing to me that Paul Mavis (who called himself a "Fugitive fanatic" in that very review) wouldn't have noticed a single piece of music being changed in the S2 DVD set.

And: Not a single mention of the music edits in the review at DVD Beaver either. (What a shame that all of those great-looking images shown in those screen-captures are destroyed by the music that accompanies them.)


EDIT:

Paul Mavis has weighed in regarding the music changes, in this DVD Talk post HERE.

Paul said:

"I'm disappointed, too, but I'm not willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I'm going to enjoy the show."

That's fine, Paul. But I don't see how it's even possible for a self-proclaimed "Fugitive fanatic" like yourself to "enjoy" these episodes after the sweeping changes that CBS/Paramount has made to them (and I haven't even heard the changes as yet...but whatever the "new" music is that has been inserted into these shows, it cannot possibly be as good as the original soundtrack). And even if I ended up liking the new music, I'd still be against replacing the original music score.

Should I try to "enjoy" a Beatles concert on DVD or CD, even if the music on the disc has been replaced with a Monkees soundtrack? Seems to me to be a good analogy.

I think maybe I'm in Serling's Twilight Zone right now. Somebody wake me up!
post #39 of 1043

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Well I won't be buying this release until I'm desperate for more Fugitive action - there's a lot of Blu-ray and DVD releases to hold me over until then.
post #40 of 1043
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I made a post entitled "Still sick" which did not appear. If I somehow started a new thread entitled, "Still sick," I'm sorry. Hopefully a mod can delete it or move it to this thread.

Apologies again.
post #41 of 1043
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I'm glad Paul can enjoy the show. Perhaps the reason is that as evidenced in his review he did not even know the music had been COMPLETELY changed. Heck, if you don't know it's been changed, of course it doesn't matter. Of course you can enjoy it.

But I knew it had been changed in, oh, about three seconds.

My problem is CBS/Paramount selling this set like it's actually the first fifteen episodes of season two of THE FUGITIVE.

Sorry, it's not. The picture may be, but the soundscore is most definitely not.

That should be made more plain to buyers.
post #42 of 1043

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
I'm glad Paul can enjoy the show. Perhaps the reason is that as evidenced in his review he did not even know the music had been COMPLETELY changed.

And yet he had already provided full, detailed reviews for the Season-One DVD releases, and he also called himself a "Fugitive fanatic".

Go figure.

~shrug~
post #43 of 1043

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
"I'm disappointed, too, but I'm not willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I'm going to enjoy the show."

As the kids would say, FACEPALM.
post #44 of 1043

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

A "Fugitive fanatic" is a guy who buys the Rugolo soundtrack CD on Amazon used for $58 about two years ago.

Now, for some reason, there's only five of the 12 cuts available there for auditioning.

I stopped buying the series Married With Children when they did a Sinatradectomy on "Love & Marriage" and replaced it with an instrumental facsimile. Not even the instrumental version of the original song! Maybe a Heyes job there too.

Without the occasional Rugolo theme stinger or background lilt, this is going to be a painful S2V1. For me, S2V2 is the end.

Hey, I know how the story ends anyway! (no spoilers here)

But this is a sad, sad end to the DVD release.
post #45 of 1043

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Hey CBS! Nice trick, but I thought tying a string to a dollar bill and pulling it along the sidewalk went out with whoopee cushions and exploding cigars!

As they say, every dog gets one free bite.

You've had yours CBS...I'm done at the end of S2.

EDIT: I'm done at the end of S1.
post #46 of 1043
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Unless sanity returns, I'm done with S2V1.

I will support this insanity with not another dime.
post #47 of 1043

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
I'm done at the end of S2.

Why would you even consider buying S2, V2 after knowing about this ridiculous debacle with S2, V1?

Why give them one more nickel until they fix S2, V1? I know I won't be.
post #48 of 1043

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Regarding Carabimero's post on the "dozen or so" minor music changes to the first season, can you experts give me a quick rundown on those (or point me to an earlier post and save me the trouble of sifting through the other gigantic Fugitive threads)?
post #49 of 1043

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I should probably toss S2V1 on Amazon or eBay and cut my losses.

Do we really think CBS will reverse their musical exorcism?

Look! Up in the sky! Is that a pig I see flying?
post #50 of 1043

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

And they wonder why people sail down the River Styx looking elsewhere for TV shows on DVD. Στύξ
post #51 of 1043

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I had already opened the packaging for S2 V1 when I read this thread...I'm really upset over the music changes too! I have never bought a TV-on-DVD set where the music score was replaced entirely! Like others have said, the music is another character, conveying so many emotions, especially when Kimble is in danger or when Gerard is on the scene. I really hope Gord or Dave from tvshowsondvd can find out what happened and let us know. I was introduced to the series when A&E first started airing it and it's definitely one of my all-time favourites, so this is just awful news!
post #52 of 1043

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I can understand the economics of the situation when a studio wants to maximize their profit (especially on something that might not be that big for them like an older show) so I'm not the guy who goes nuts whenever a studio edits a song from a DVD. However, I draw a line when it comes to removing something that doesn't have to be removed like a score. That's just senseless and Paramount should immediately correct this.

If Paramount fixes this or has an exchange program, I'll gladly buy it.
post #53 of 1043

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Do we really think CBS will reverse their musical exorcism?

If they don't, I'm committing hari-kari on August 29th (the 41st anniversary of "The Judgment").

I feel like beating somebody at Paramount senseless (if nature didn't beat me to it) with Fred Johnson's severed limb.
post #54 of 1043
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

The following excerpts are from posts I made in THE FUGITIVE THREAD over at the Marvel Masterworks Message Board entitled Blammo.

[I tried to post a link but as I am a newbie here with the inaccurate post count of less than 10, I was not permitted]

Here are two alterations from S1V2---you can check out the rest of the thread if you like...I don't know if I caught all the changes in season one; I tried.

__________________________________________________ ______
It's an alteration, yes, and it runs over several continuous scenes, but the good news is, it's the background music of the band in THE GARDEN HOUSE. It starts at about 22 minutes in and runs over the background of different nearby scenes for several minutes. The bad news, however, is that the music clearly does not match what the on-screen musicians are playing. But it could be worse. It does look like someone tried to match it and do the best they could. And I don't know about you, but GARDEN HOUSE has never been a stellar favorite of mine. A nice episode, but nothing special.

Still, it irks me that any episode has been altered. I prefer music to picture, of course, but still I just hate it.

__________________________________________________ __

More incidental music changes in WHERE THE ACTION IS. There were three opportunities for changes and two changes were made: when Beverly Powers is stripping, and when Joanna Frank is stripping. They did not, however, change the music in Telly Savalas's hotel lobby. I will say they did a better job this time matching the music to the on-screen instruments.
post #55 of 1043

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Regarding Carabimero's post on the "dozen or so" minor music changes to the first season, can you experts give me a quick rundown on those?

AFAIK, there aren't nearly that many small musical changes in the first-season DVD sets....but I could be wrong.

Gary OS states in this S1, V2 post that he only spotted a couple of very small changes (and it took a Mega-Fuge Fan like Gary to even spot them where nobody seemed to; I certainly hadn't by the time The Gary-meister pointed them out). EDIT: The same edits mentioned in the above post by David C.

Oh, what a waste of perfect PQ (I just hope Paramount does the right thing and corrects the soundtrack; even if it costs me $60 for 15 eps., I'll be a sucker and pay it):









post #56 of 1043

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I spoke to one of my contacts at CBS/Paramount (not someone involved in the DVD department) and they looked up the show on the computer for me. The only notes they had on the shows said "ALL ORIGINAL MUSIC CHANGED DUE TO LEGAL ISSUES". I will leave it to others to delve deeper into the actual excuses Paramount is going to offer. In the meantime, I have a friend who works for a TV station and they have a complete set of the Worldvision tapes still in their storage facility from when they ran the show in the mid-80s. I held off on bothering him for it, assuming the show would eventually come out in complete form with the proper, unsped running time. Guess what the first phone call I'm making tomorrow morning will be?

Now, can I say a word about these self-proclaimed DVD reviewers? If you have never seen a show, you have absolutely NO BUSINESS reviewing it. I love when they write, I've never seen the show, but. The full sentence should be, I've never seen the show so I haven't the slightest idea as to how long it runs, whether or not it's complete, or if there are any alterations but I'm going to write about it anyway. Please. There are enough knowledgeable people writing about television, both for newspapers and on the internet that we don't really need people born 5 minutes ago writing about shows they know nothing about. You want to write about a subject, then make it your business to familiarize yourself with it. There are plenty of people you can get screening tapes from or else get your ass to UCLA, the Museum of TV and Radio, Library of Congress or any other TV archive. If not, you're no DVD reviewer, you're just some hack with a computer.
post #57 of 1043

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Dearborn
Now, can I say a word about these self-proclaimed DVD reviewers? If you have never seen a show, you have absolutely NO BUSINESS reviewing it. I love when they write, I've never seen the show, but. The full sentence should be, I've never seen the show so I haven't the slightest idea as to how long it runs, whether or not it's complete, or if there are any alterations but I'm going to write about it anyway. Please. There are enough knowledgeable people writing about television, both for newspapers and on the internet that we don't really need people born 5 minutes ago writing about shows they know nothing about. You want to write about a subject, then make it your business to familiarize yourself with it. There are plenty of people you can get screening tapes from or else get your ass to UCLA, the Museum of TV and Radio, Library of Congress or any other TV archive. If not, you're no DVD reviewer, you're just some hack with a computer.
Hank, why do you even post here? I'm not saying that you can't, I just don't understand why you do. No one here seems to meet your criteria of a collector so why waste your time?
post #58 of 1043

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Fugitive Music Footnote/Addendum:

I've been conversing online with a very knowledgable TV-on-DVD fan (Eric Paddon), and the subject has arisen as to the (possible) main "culprit" with respect to this June 10, 2008, disaster that I will hereafter refer to as "The Fugitive Fiasco":

It's quite possible that the #1 reason for these massive, across-the-soundtrack Fugitive musical replacements is due to CBS/Paramount not owning all the rights (within its own "CBS Library") to the musical snippets that originally came from "The Outer Limits" TV series.

There aren't a whole lot of "Limits" cues in "Fuge" (relatively-speaking), but perhaps enough to make it impossible to use any of the background musical reels at all.

Eric also has reminded me:

"[Outer] Limits was a production of UA television, controlled now by MGM. .... This may be a coincidence, but all of the Limits music was just released on CD, and it could be some legal heads involved with that did some further investigating at about the same time."

I then asked:

"But I think SOME "Limits" stuff IS in the 1st-season DVD sets for Fuge...correct?"

Eric responded with:

"Maybe the Limits rights holders didn't know. .... And this would be something where maybe the soundtrack couldn't be replaced piecemeal. If they had to jettison a Limits cue, the WHOLE score had to go. .... I'm just speculating."

DVP: "But why would that necessarily be the case? Why not just jettison the Limits stuff?"

ERIC: "Maybe the reels are such that you can't do that economically. .... It's like if you have only a music and effects track, replacing the music would mean spending money on new sound effects too. .... But like I said, the real source of this problem is the fact that Quinn Martin didn't hire composers to do fresh scores for each episode the way it's done today. This is why this may be the only show where this kind of thing could ever happen. .... Even back then, a show would have about six to a dozen fresh scores and the remainder of episodes for a season would reuse those scores and then you'd use a fresh batch the next season."

Food for Fugitive thought anyway.
post #59 of 1043

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

AMEN to the entire Dearborn Paragraph 2 !

Yes, we'd like the opinions of people who are nuts about the show; not simply nuts, with all due respect, may it please the Court.
post #60 of 1043

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

DVP, thanks for inside baseball perspective, however, it pretty much dashes hopes for a Rugolo redo release.

RIP Richard.
Looks like Lt. Girard sends you to the Chair.
And the one-armed bandit, aka CBS, escapes in the end.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: TV on DVD and Blu-ray
This thread is locked