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The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews - Page 8  

post #211 of 1043
6/13/08 at 8:49am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

It's a shame that a few bad eggs completely ruined it for
everyone here. Hopefully the positive letters you guys are
now sending will get some equal reaction even if they are not
personally responded to.
post #212 of 1043
6/13/08 at 9:26am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ockeghem
Harry,

Nice description there. Is there any chance that there might be a link to some snippets of the music you describe above? I'd love to give it a listen.

Not being much of a web geek, I *did* attempt to load a sample on my web space, but I can't seem to get it to work. If I get a chance over the weekend, I may try again.

My intent was to load a sample Act intro from the new version and the same one from the original version. But the best laid plans...

I wish there were a way of loading the mp3 to the forum.

Harry
post #213 of 1043
6/13/08 at 9:41am

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry-N
Not being much of a web geek, I *did* attempt to load a sample on my web space, but I can't seem to get it to work. If I get a chance over the weekend, I may try again.

My intent was to load a sample Act intro from the new version and the same one from the original version. But the best laid plans...

I wish there were a way of loading the mp3 to the forum.

Harry
Harry,

Thanks for the effort. I'll keep an eye (and an ear) out for what you end up posting.
post #214 of 1043
6/13/08 at 11:39am
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

The uncredited music, which I alluded to as a possible reason in the post I started this thread with, has been uncredited for 40 years. It has remained uncredited every time the show has aired.
post #215 of 1043
6/13/08 at 11:54am
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Yes, it's a shame Mr. Dante was attacked. It saddens me as much as anyone. But to use that as justification to break off dialogue with legitimate media, seems to me, frankly, little more than another rationalization. That CBS/Paramount offered no explanation for the extraordinary alterations before Mr. Dante was attacked says something in and of itself.
post #216 of 1043
6/13/08 at 12:04pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

The telecommunications company I work for is the same way. If someone in our ranks was wrongly attacked for something by members of an online forum, we would cease all communications with entities associated with that forum and not comment, as our legal department would most likely advise this anyway.

This situation reminds me a little of the Married With CHildren situation, wherein they used the Sinatra theme for the first couple seasons on DVD, then the price went way up to use the song on future releases, so the studio pulled it and replaced it with generic music.
post #217 of 1043
6/13/08 at 12:06pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carabimero
Yes, it's a shame Mr. Dante was attacked. It saddens me as much as anyone. But to use that as justification to break off dialogue with legitimate media, seems to me, frankly, little more than another rationalization. That CBS/Paramount offered no explanation for the extraordinary alterations before Mr. Dante was attacked says something in and of itself.

Well, unfortunately, anything that can even be perceived as a threat has to be taken seriously in this day and age. It is proof of the age old adage that one bad apple can ruin the whole barrel.

I imagine given the group's reputation that this will pass, but it may take a long while. Good luck to Gord in re-establishing good relations with the CBS.
post #218 of 1043
6/13/08 at 12:12pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Then let me just state it plainly: If CBS/Paramount wanted those interested to know why they radically altered the set, we would know.

They don't.

So we don't.

Pick your reason.
post #219 of 1043
6/13/08 at 1:48pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carabimero
That CBS/Paramount offered no explanation for the extraordinary alterations before Mr. Dante was attacked says something in and of itself.

I agree. I don't condone the fact that some people were less than civil, but that doesn't give CBS/Paramount the right/justification to hide behind that. What about the people who were civil? Besides, until they provide an explanation and restore the original soundtrack, they're the ones that will be losing our business.
post #220 of 1043
6/13/08 at 2:06pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

With regards to the signature music that usually accompanies the first appearance of Lt. Gerard in most every episode, i.e. "Gerard's Theme," was not, in fact, composed by Pete Rugolo. I believe it is one of the cues lifted from a TWILIGHT ZONE episode, most likely composed by Jerry Goldsmith.

Regardless, it is a powerful piece of music and I can no more imagine it missing from the series than I can "The James Bond Theme" by John Barry suddenly being replaced in a Bond film with an inferior sound-alike.
post #221 of 1043
6/13/08 at 2:06pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

The two may not be connected, but I was trading emails with the Paramount PR person before Dante was attacked, and I haven't heard anything since. No one is using the attack as an excuse, I just haven't heard anything from them since that happened.

Requests like these often take time; Paramount PR has to track down the person at CBS that worked on the set, find out what happened, probably run it by 1 or 2 other people, then get back to me. The marketing person who worked on the set may not be the person that removed the music (sounds like this would be someone in the legal department).

Gord
post #222 of 1043
6/13/08 at 2:09pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Professor, I could certainly be wrong, but I have never heard Gerard's theme in any TZ episode. I do believe it was a theme composed for The Fugitive.
post #223 of 1043
6/13/08 at 2:17pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carabimero
Professor, I could certainly be wrong, but I have never heard Gerard's theme in any TZ episode. I do believe it was a theme composed for The Fugitive.

I could swear it was on one of the old TZ LP albums I had. I remember when it played how surprised I was to suddenly hear "Gerard's Theme" on an album of TZ episode music. Unfortunately it was a series of LPs that came out in the 80's and I can't remember which volume it was on nor which episode that MAY have originally used that music. Would that I had access to all my old LPs, I would dig them out and go through them all, but at the moment I don't.

Perhaps an easier way to determine its origin is to listen to the Pete Rugolo CD, which I do have. That only contained HIS original score, right?, not any of the borrowed music from the library? If Gerard's Theme is on that then it is most likely an original piece composed strictly for THE FUGITIVE and my memory is wrong.
post #224 of 1043
6/13/08 at 2:18pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor Echo
I could swear it was on one of the old TZ LP albums I had. I remember when it played how surprised I was to suddenly hear "Gerard's Theme" on an album of TZ episode music. Unfortunately it was a series of LPs that came out in the 80's and I can't remember which volume it was on nor which episode that MAY have originally used that music. Would that I had access to all my old LPs, I would dig them out and go through them all, but at the moment I don't.

Perhaps an easier way to determine its origin is to listen to the Pete Rugolo CD, which I do have. That only contained HIS original score, right?, not any of the borrowed music from the library? If Gerard's Theme is on that then it is most likely an original piece composed strictly for THE FUGITIVE and my memory is wrong.

It is on the Rugolo FUGITIVE CD - track 5. That CD only contains Rugolo cues.

Harry
post #225 of 1043
6/13/08 at 2:22pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Thanks Harry. It's not the first time my memory has failed me and certainly won't be the last, but I would be interested in finding out exactly what cue I heard on that TZ album that triggered my reaction thusly. I know there are incidental TZ cues throughout the series, but Gerard's Theme is so recognizable, I can't imagine what other source music it could have been on the TZ lp that would have the same impact.
post #226 of 1043
6/13/08 at 2:30pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

The sample on Amazon of the Rugolo-Gerard cue is not exactly the main part of the cue, but you get an idea of the melody.

Amazon.com It's track 5.

Harry
post #227 of 1043
6/13/08 at 2:40pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Those TZ albums are fantastic. You can find most if not all of them on CD. I have them and they are great. As strange as it may sound, I moved one cue from Goldsmith's "Invaders" and put it on my iPod playlist among my favorite Fugitive cuts!
post #228 of 1043
6/13/08 at 4:29pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

And to think, I was to have headed to Borders this weekend to have bought this set--as well as The Boondocks--during the 40% off DVD Box Set sale (as I did to complete S1, V1 upon its release back in February).

With the unfortunate music cue-change, a little bit of the joy has been taken from my birthday tomorrow. S2, V1 was #1 on my birthday-to-get list when I learned of its 6-10-2008 release date. The Ivan Dixon episode, "Escape Into Black", is featured in this set. I was going to watch that Fuge episode first on my birthday as a tribute to the recently-deceased actor/director.

I feel sad about this.
post #229 of 1043
6/13/08 at 4:31pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
With regards to the signature music that usually accompanies the first appearance of Lt. Gerard in most every episode, i.e. "Gerard's Theme," was not, in fact, composed by Pete Rugolo. I believe it is one of the cues lifted from a TWILIGHT ZONE episode, most likely composed by Jerry Goldsmith.

This is incorrect. Pete Rugolo definitely did compose the "Gerard/Police Theme".

Here are some direct quotes from the Liner Notes of the "Fugitive" TV Soundtrack (released on Audio-CD in 2001):


" 'I [Pete Rugolo] wrote a lot of variations--every possible kind of suspense. I wrote a police-style theme for Gerard, and a few love themes in case there was anything of that type. I had to imagine all kinds of things. I wrote some neutral cues, some sad cues. I wrote an awful lot of chases, because I knew he'd be running a lot. Eight-second openings for each act and a lot of act endings based on the theme. All those things they used over and over.'

"All told, [music editor and supervisor John] Elizalde recalls, Rugolo composed and orchestrated somewhere between 75 and 90 minutes of music. To save on music costs, the music was taken to London and recorded with a 55-piece orchestra conducted by Harry Rabinowitz. ....

"While subsequent episodes [following the "Fear In A Desert City" pilot] also utilized the CBS Music Library...and later music from Capitol's vast library, Rugolo's music remained a staple of the series for all four years. And while Elizalde returned to QM Productions as post-production supervisor at the start of 'The Fugitive's' second season in 1964, [Ken] Wilhoit remained the series' music supervisor and chose every cue ever used on the show.

"At the height of the series' popularity in 1965, Warner Bros. Records asked Rugolo to prepare an album of music from the show -- which he did, writing fresh arrangements of 12 themes and variations. Unfortunately, the producer who was commissioned was fired and no 'Fugitive' album ever materialized."
post #230 of 1043
6/13/08 at 4:41pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Tina, sorry to hear about your disappointment. ESCAPE is my favorite episode and not having it with its original music was a blow.

My wife went and actually got me some balloons yesterday, trying to cheer me up. I'm really really down about this release, and the prospects for The Fugitive's unaltered future.
post #231 of 1043
6/13/08 at 4:48pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I wish I hadn't come across my review for the Fuge Soundtrack CD today. Now, I feel even sadder about the Season-Two DVD music replacements:

===========================

"I was quite surprised (and pleased) to find this excellent Audio-CD available. All that great music from the 1963-1967 television drama series "The Fugitive" (starring David Janssen) is here. And it sounds great.

"The original 1960s version of "The Fugitive" is one of the all-time greatest TV programs to ever show up on American television screens. And one of the major reasons for this praise, in my own personal opinion anyway, rests firmly on the shoulders of Mr. Pete Rugolo, who was responsible for composing the outstanding music that was heard throughout the show's four-year TV run (120 total episodes).

"Offhand, I cannot think of a TV show which featured better music -- which would include the picture-perfect opening theme, as well as all the various assorted pieces of background musical cues and bridges that Mr. Rugolo wrote to adorn the interior of each of the episodes during the "Fuge" series. Rugolo's mood-enhancing melodies created for the show were (and still are today) miniature 'classics' unto themselves. I never tire of listening to the soundtrack of "The Fugitive". Truly great stuff.

"This CD is divided into 24 tracks, with a total running time of 47:20. Extensive Liner Notes are included, in the form of an interesting eight-page booklet, which provides the backstory of the Peter Rugolo/Fugitive connection, as well as a few vintage "Fugitive" photographs.

"Anybody who likes great TV soundtrack recordings should definitely make an attempt to acquire this Compact Disc." -- David Von Pein; August 2005
post #232 of 1043
6/13/08 at 4:50pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

As a somewhat frustrating but amusing postscript to the discussion about the publishing rights to the Rugolo cues (EMI Unart Catalog Inc. (BMI), according to the CD's liner notes), I received today in the mail, the new OUTER LIMITS 3-CD set.

Guess what? The Dominic Frontiere OUTER LIMITS music is published by the very same outfit, EMI Unart Catalog, Inc. (BMI).

That at least tells me that this company is not the "defunct" one referenced by that Film Score Monthly report about CBS/Paramount possibly not finding an active owner of the Rugolo music.

Harry
post #233 of 1043
6/13/08 at 5:39pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Humbly, some of you may find this of interest:

Lawyers, DVDs, and Money: Fugitive Musical Scores From a FUGITIVE DVD Release « The Classic TV History Blog

I, too, was completely shut out in my attempts to elicit a comment from CBS/Paramount, and as a result this piece is more editorial and less reportage than I had hoped. Still, there are a few new tidbits, including a reaction from FUGITIVE producer Alan Armer.

Stephen Bowie
Classic TV History
post #234 of 1043
6/13/08 at 5:55pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Bowie
Humbly, some of you may find this of interest:

Lawyers, DVDs, and Money: Fugitive Musical Scores From a FUGITIVE DVD Release « The Classic TV History Blog

I, too, was completely shut out in my attempts to elicit a comment from CBS/Paramount, and as a result this piece is more editorial and less reportage than I had hoped. Still, there are a few new tidbits, including a reaction from FUGITIVE producer Alan Armer.

Stephen Bowie
Classic TV History
In your blog, you say "Ronald Epstein, proprietor of the widely-read Home Theater Forum website, praised Paramount for its 'wise decision' regarding the Fugitive music replacement." Here's the full text of Ron's quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Epstein
A wise decision from Paramount so they don't
get bitten in the ass down the road.

I do feel that for the benefit of their consumers, Paramount should
have been up front about what they had been forced to do in both
their press releases and packaging. I truly understand the frustration
from fans of this series who were not informed of these changes in
advance of their purchase.
When you read the full post (rather than just quoting two words from it), it sounds much different.
post #235 of 1043
6/13/08 at 6:18pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Boy, talk about being quoted out of context. The normally balanced Bowie criticizes Mavis for being unprofessional when Bowie's selective quoting of Mr. Epstein is, in my opinion, equally unprofessional.
post #236 of 1043
6/13/08 at 6:32pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carabimero
Tina, sorry to hear about your disappointment. ESCAPE is my favorite episode and not having it with its original music was a blow.

My wife went and actually got me some balloons yesterday, trying to cheer me up. I'm really really down about this release, and the prospects for The Fugitive's unaltered future.


Thanks, Carabimero. Your wife is a very sweet lady.
post #237 of 1043
6/13/08 at 6:37pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Thanks, I'll pass that on to Mrs. Carab

The question is, Tina, what can we do to get these beautiful transfers married with their proper sound?
post #238 of 1043
6/13/08 at 6:59pm

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gord Lacey
The two may not be connected, but I was trading emails with the Paramount PR person before Dante was attacked, and I haven't heard anything since. No one is using the attack as an excuse, I just haven't heard anything from them since that happened.

Requests like these often take time; Paramount PR has to track down the person at CBS that worked on the set, find out what happened, probably run it by 1 or 2 other people, then get back to me. The marketing person who worked on the set may not be the person that removed the music (sounds like this would be someone in the legal department).

Gord

This assumes that they even want to address the issues anymore. Given what happened to Dante, they're well within their rights to tell the fans essentially to go jump in the lake.

Then again, if anyone from Paramount is reading the boards here, they have to be aware of the backlash from the lack of forthrightness (is that even a word?) in regards to the music edits.

You know, I just had a thought: look at what happened with Route 66. Part one of season 1 was releases with some framing issues in the widescreen. Now just today, we heard that a full season one set is coming out with the mistakes corrected.

It is possible, just possible, that the backscore can be corrected for a full season 2 release for Fugitive. It's unlikely, given a full season 1 release did not take place, but it would be a nice effort by Paramount if they can fix it.
post #239 of 1043
6/13/08 at 8:12pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I have to believe virtually everyone would be happier that way. Trick is, finding rights holders potentially not happy and making them happy.

I also have this scant hope that the reason we haven't received official word is because the decision to replace the music was arbitrary and unnecessary and they want to be able to announce a corrected set is on the way. But I know I'm being a ridiculous optimist.
post #240 of 1043
6/13/08 at 8:20pm
Thread Starter 

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I was thinking about your Route 66 comparison. I see where you're going, but that was a technical botch. With the Fugitive, we have a conscious decision not only to remove music but the added burden of rescoring it. That's what I can't equate. If the decision was based on legal panic or paranoia, would they have gone to such great lengths? And why not just cancel the release before going to all that trouble? Bowie's blog gave the impression those composers were entrenched for the long haul.

I need to stop trying to figure it out because whatever I think is the truth is probably way off base in reality.
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