The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews - Page 35  

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I think you hit the nail on the head. For those of us old enough to remember watching certain TV shows; The Fugitive being one of them; the music score is ingrained in our memory such that we hear the music in our head when the program is mentioned (and I just don't mean the theme). The problem is that when you watch the program with a new score, your memory comes to a juddering halt and it ruins things to the extent that you can't watch any more.

It is a shame that those responsible for the releases do not have the history of knowing these programs first hand.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

It's even a bigger shame to see them so utterly clueless on understanding basic customer desires and expectations AFTER, no less, receiving heaps of praise for actually exceeding expectations.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I'm no defender of what's happened with The Fugitive, but I find the condescension inappropriate. I'm old enough to have watched the show when it first aired, and frankly the behavior of many people in this thread embarrasses me for my generation. I can imagine those "under 35s" reading some of this stuff and saying to themselves, "If this is 'wisdom' and 'maturity', you can keep it!"

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Funny, I'm not embarrassed at all. I personally don't consider it immature to single out a generation that is unwilling to show a degree of deference for something that, though they have no interest and association with, SHOULD at the very least acknowledge the reverence it has been accorded over the years. But then, I don't expect many people under 30 anyway, to have any tangible respect for Brahms, the Dutch masters or gothic architecture either. Say what you want, but I'd rather be regarded as condescending than phlegmatic.

Where "The Fugitive" is concerned, it's entirely conjecture on my part that a person or persons born in the mid-late 70s or so had anything to do with with the S2 debacle, I admit, but I'd sure be willing to lay odds.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

IMO, that doesn't speak well for you. You admit that you don't know whether or not 30-somethings were involved with the S2 Fugitive decision, but you're willing to go ahead and condemn an entire generation's taste on that basis. This forum has many members of that age -- and younger -- who have as much, or more, reverence for classic film and TV as many of their elders.

Besides, the age of the people responsible for the decisions is irrelevant. As any reasonable reader of this thread should be willing to acknowledge, the rights situation regarding the music cues is, at best, unclear. To this day, we still don't know all of the factors that led to the decision to replace the music. The sole decision for which Paramount/CBS can be justly criticized -- and they have been -- is the misleading packaging.

Even so, the reactions in this thread from supposedly mature adults have been outlandish and atrocious. Abusive emails to a Paramount employee who, as it turned out, had nothing to do with this release; threats of frivolous lawsuits; prosecutorial parsing of every word issued by Paramount/CBS looking for the most damning possible inference; and let's not forget the accusations against the forum that's hosting all of this for being somehow "partial" to the studios.

All of it over a TV show.

Now, I value my favorite movies and TV shows as much as anyone, or I wouldn't be here. But age is supposed to bring a certain wisdom. Some things are worth getting excited about; some things are worth a roll of the eyes, a note of protest and then moving on. Wisdom is knowing the difference.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

So we should spend our money based on what we think is an unaltered release of a classic TV series and then, when we discover that large changes have been made with no advance warning, we should roll our eyes, write a note of protest, and then move on? Where's the part about getting our money back or some sort of compensation for the lack of truth in packaging? And where do we move on to? The next series that is altered without warning (as in "My 3 Sons")? This forum, IMO, has done exactly what it should do -- make it known that changes of this type are not acceptable and should not be tolerated from any studio unless there is upfront acknowledgment or warning so the buyer can made an informed decision. Wisdom is also not being taken for a sucker when it comes to making a purchase.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

It would be nice if you referenced the part of my post that dealt with this point:

But the bulk of this thread hasn't been about the packaging. Most recently, the wholesale dismissal of 30-somethings had nothing to do with the packaging issues, and everything to do with the music replacement, the precise reasons for which are still unknown.

Your own post demonstrates my point. It's a 35-page thread, and you still want to fight.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Until this past week, there have been no posts from people telling the rest of us to grow up and accept it. Where were you 35 pages ago? In any case,
I'm not fighting per se, I'm just expressing the fact that CBS/Paramount did not do the right thing here and has shown no evidence that this will change. Done.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I've been in and out of this thread since page 6, trying to calm it (admittedly without much success). You'll also find me in a parallel thread.

There have been posts from early on asking people to be reasonable. And I haven't told anyone to "grow up" so much as suggested that people complaining about the "kids" at the studios should consider acting their age. I stand by the suggestion.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

We WERE told, by the powers that be here, probably in this very thread, that the powers that be at CBS/Paramount are NOT just a bunch of 20 and 30 somethings - that they are reasonable, intelligent folks who probably had to make some very difficult decisions.

That they weren't upfront with their customer base is the issue here, as Michael has stated.

Sometimes I think that after a period of time goes by, people tend to pop back into a thread and forget what has gone before. There was a fairly long period of inactivity in this thread until a recent semi-controversial post by "Point-Blank" set everyone off again.

That CBS/Paramount has remained silent on the issue is somewhat disquieting.

Harry

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

This is something I think we can all agree on (Although i'm sticking with my view of generation gap as a contributing factor in many cases of botched releases!) That LACK OF COMMUNICATION on the part of CBS-P caused more problems than the actual changes.

We're the consumer - we want to consume the product - and If we knew ahead of time the changes were made,we might have been less angry and more forgiving if we were told why. What we got is like opening a package on christmas morning to find not what we expected,but something less and then being told "Oh,we had to get you something less becuase of...".

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I respectfully disagree with you and others on this point if you are suggesting that the only real gripe we should have is that CBS/Paramount wasn't upfront about the changes. Yes, the fact that they tried to pull the proverbial wool over our eyes was a huge issue. And they were roundly rebuked by all for that. I also understand the issue about being mean and posting abusive messages as well as private emails just to harass people. That should have never happened.

Having said all that - there are other things that some of us also feel were egregious enough to warrant rebukes.

That the music was subbed at all is a big problem by itself. Some of us feel that had this been done to another release that was perhaps a favorite of more people then it wouldn't be so easily dismissed (I'm thinking of either more well known classics or popular current shows). I'd hope that this isn't the case, but I know from experience it's easy to tell other people not to cry over spilt milk when you either don't like milk at all, or can easily substitute the milk for another drink you like just as much. For some of us THE FUGITIVE was a "holy grail" show, and seeing it maimed just wasn't easy to dismiss.

Then there's the problem of CBS/Paramount being so closed mouth about the entire thing. That's just as egregious to me as the labeling/warning issue. They should come clean and be specific with the consumer about what happened. That nearly 6 months have passed and we still don't have an "official" explanation from them is absurd as far as I'm concerned. And while others may be willing to give the studio the benefit of the doubt, I think the evidence is fairly substantial that they simply took the easy road out. And that's not just my individual belief. There are those that looked into the situation, came to that same conclusion, and published their beliefs in online articles. I realize that doesn't make it absolutely true, but at this point CBS/P's unwillingness to come clean certainly doesn't engender good will from me. If others want to give them the benefit of the doubt, so be it. But I don't believe those of us unwilling to do that should be chastised for it.

Add to all the above that we've now had the same thing happen to another classic show [MY THREE SONS] and it all adds up to a good amount of distress for vintage TV fans.

Just my two cents.

Gary "respectfully submitted" O.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

What are you talking about? An official explanation was given last June, thanks to the efforts of TVShowsonDVD. To no one's surprise, the participants in this thread found it inadequate, but it was given months ago.

Go back to post 1023. The only people I've chastised are those who bitch about "under 35s" running video divisions while they themselves are acting like toddlers.

This thread is on the verge of closure. There isn't a thought on this subject that hasn't been expressed over and over and over and over again.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

You're correct on that. I used my words poorly. Instead of "official" I should have said "adequate", and then added "In my humble opinion". But yes, they did issue a statement. Sorry about that misstatement on my part.

Gary "I agree that pretty much everything that can be said has been said and I will not post in this thread again" O.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Before this thread DOES close down, let me say that Gary's sentence above says a lot. THE FUGITIVE is indeed a "holy grail" show for many of us who remember it fondly.

It's a profound disappointment to have what we got from CBS/Paramount - with little hope for a brighter future in regard to this outstanding series.

Harry

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Indeed, Harry. What is also profoundly disappointing is that people at CBS/Paramount would be so brazen in their belief that they could dupe a discerning and perfectionist oriented classic tv fan base by wantonly changing a beloved tv show--thinking that no one will really notice or especially care!

The change in the end credits is still what I find so incredibly flagrant, even more than the actual music swap. I maintain that if stoopidness like this is not handled with a high degree of assertiveness and moxie, it usually results in the outpouring of still more stoopidness. Unfortunately, in this 'touchy-feely' society, reprisals are expected to be highly tempered and actually discouraged, and its place we are asked to demonstrate things like "wisdom" and "maturity"--which, in the end, only serve to let an entity like CBS/Paramount of the hook where debacles like the S2 release of "The Fugitive" are concerned.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I've repeatedly expressed my displeasure with Paramount over this situation and I don't feel that Michael Reuben required me to be highly tempered in or discouraged me from stating my opinion.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I just want to see the rest of the series released - even with altered music - AS LONG AS THEY TELL US UP FRONT First!

Again, as I said earlier,poor communication between CBS-P and the consumer caused most of these problems. Atleast we knew what to expect with MY THREE SONS.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

The problem is, as Michael stated above, this thread has gone on
for 35 pages and a total of 1039 posts. Everything that has to be
said about the problems regarding this release has been said over
and over again.

This thread has become a burden to the entire staff who has to
deal with continued flare-ups inside this area and email complaints
to our mailboxes. Whenever we think things have finally settled
down, someone has to step back into this area and light another fire.

In the meantime the Moderators and I were accused of sticking up
for the studio and not sympathizing with the situation here. That could
not be farther from the truth. First, I think we have more than adequately
allowed free discussion of this situation. In addition, we assisted all of you
in getting the word out to Paramount. I personally communicated with the
poor guy at the studio who fell victim to the rash of nasty emails that weren't
even his concern. Since this is the official discussion forum for
TVShowsOnDVD.com, Gord and Dave also took a big part in
communicating your concerns to Paramount which resulted in an official
statement from the studio (which Michael referenced above). Your
voices were heard.

Additionally, when someone does come to this thread for the sole
purpose of kicking up dust (as pointed out in above post), we have
to step in and calm that person down which results in private emails
that accuse of being bias and unconcerned. Five months later, we
should still not be spending valuable time addressing concerns about
this thread via private email.

At this point, nobody can accuse us of not doing everything we could
to assist all of you nor give you enough bandwidth here (1039 posts)
to say everything that had to be said on this subject.

Certainly all of you are unhappy. We sympathize with that. However,
this thread no longer serves a purpose now that everything has been
discussed on this subject. What reason would there be to wanting to
keep it open if not for the fact that we have to continually step in here
and calm the masses down every time one or two individuals feel like
kicking up dust?

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

There was warning. It says on the DVD case "Some episodes may be edited from their original network versions. Some music has been changed for this home entertainment version. You don't like the music changes. Fine. Don't sit there and say there was no warning, though. There was. I watch a TV program for the program, not the music. Now, because of all this childish complaining about the changed music, it is doubtful future releases will see the light of day. What a false sense of entitlement the Internet has brought out in people.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

As you can see, by the above post all this thread is now doing is
fueling the flames further.

(By the way, notice that this was the member's FIRST post which
makes it suspicious).

I do not support the belief that complaining was childish. I feel
everyone had a legitimate concern about what Paramount did, and
I also believe the studio most likely felt they were acting in the best
interests in doing what they had to do to get this product out whether
it was the right choice or not.

I am going to now close this thread and ask that another not
be started.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

To be clear: I agree with Ron. Raising the issues with this set was entirely appropriate. The same can't be said for a lot of other things that happened in this thread.