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Is it possible that a complete Magnificent Ambersons has been found? - Page 2

post #31 of 78
6/10/08 at 8:16pm

Re: complete Magnificent Ambersons

Posted by Billy Feldman:
Quote:
I don't know that this is quite accurate. I believe Welles did finish editing, because they certainly screened his version of the film at a preview, which, as is well noted by many sources, did not go well. It was then that the film was re-edited and scenes re-shot.
Billy, I did not say Welles did not do any editing on Ambersons. Indeed, I did not really touch on that, and the famous test screenings. I was only trying to make clear to Russel G that a print and editing equipment did make it down to Welles in South America, and that Welles was fired after the RKO studio was under new management. Russel G seemed to think that Welles was fired before a print was ever sent to him. I was only trying to establish that the print and editing equipment were indeed sent to Welles. The hope that an extant print of Welles' version exists has always been based on the fact that the print was sent to South America, and that the print may still exist. I assumed that if I mentioned that the film and editing equipment were sent to Welles that it would mean that he was working on the film until he was fired.

FWIW, I have the Carringer book on Ambersons, the Criterion laserdisc (with Carringer's commentary and the slideshow/features on the "unmaking" of the film) and several Welles biographies. I have also seen the "reconstructed" version of Ambersons in which stills/voice overs are added to give a sense of the original film's intentions.

Another good source of info on Ambersons is a documentary on the RKO Studio. When i saw it, it was called Hollywood: The Golden Years, and it aired on TNT. One episode was devoted to the Welles years @ RKO and had lots of interesting info, footage, interviews and stills related to Kane and Ambersons.
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post #32 of 78
6/11/08 at 6:07am

Re: complete Magnificent Ambersons

One wishes that Mr. Wise (who became a top-notch filmmaker in his own right) had somehow kept the cut scenes and hidden them in his attic. Just what was Welles' ending like, anyway? I only know the current one with George talking with Fanny at the hospital. I have also read that the Wise ending was more in keeping with the Booth Tarkington novel, as opposed to Welles' version. Can anyone provide a link to an explanation of the Welles ending or just write it out here?
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post #33 of 78
6/11/08 at 6:39am

Re: complete Magnificent Ambersons

Charles, go to Ambersons.com for a brief synopsis of the film's history and original ending.
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post #34 of 78
6/11/08 at 7:09am

Re: complete Magnificent Ambersons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Harris
Our continuity came about in the early '90s, when Ron Haver and I decided that it would be a great project to re-make MA, precisely as Welles had made it, possibly in B & W, and with current actors.

We had several discussions with filmmakers, but in the end it was shelved.

I'll have to check my files for a copy. It was tedious work, but led to the first time that I realized precisely how brilliant the original version had been. The current cut is bits and pieces of original and re-shoot, most noticeable in the boiler scene.

RAH

Thanks for the info Mr. Harris, sounds like it would of been an amazing, if controversial, project in it's own right.
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post #35 of 78
6/11/08 at 7:42am

Re: complete Magnificent Ambersons

The A&E TV version of 2002 supposedly used the complete Welles script. Welles is credited but I never saw it so I can't confirm it.
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post #36 of 78
6/11/08 at 7:59am

Re: complete Magnificent Ambersons

With specificity, there are two wonderful and long sequences, the first being the final shot of reel 1B and running around 2' 40", which is substantially gone, and then the ballroom scene for which bits are seen in current cut.

The sequence, in a single moving shot ran over 4 minutes.

RAH
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post #37 of 78
6/11/08 at 9:31am

Re: complete Magnificent Ambersons

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_B_K
Charles, go to Ambersons.com for a brief synopsis of the film's history and original ending.


Thanks, David! The original ending is a bit bleaker- I read somewhere that the Welles had a huge closing shot showing how urbanized the small town where the characters lived had become. Probably with factories, cars and perhaps a skyscraper or two.

Trivia note: Leading lady Dolores Costello was Drew Barrymore's grandmother!
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post #38 of 78
6/11/08 at 12:44pm

Re: complete Magnificent Ambersons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Ellis
One wishes that Mr. Wise (who became a top-notch filmmaker in his own right) had somehow kept the cut scenes and hidden them in his attic. Just what was Welles' ending like, anyway? I only know the current one with George talking with Fanny at the hospital. I have also read that the Wise ending was more in keeping with the Booth Tarkington novel, as opposed to Welles' version. Can anyone provide a link to an explanation of the Welles ending or just write it out here?

Didn't Wise say his version was better?

He said this, "I would be the first to admit that as a work of art it was a much better film in its original form, no question about it," in 1972.

But I could swear he said his was better after Welles had passed.
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post #39 of 78
6/11/08 at 3:08pm

Re: complete Magnificent Ambersons

it seems that Welles is far more interesting dead than when he was alive.

Thanks for all the links
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post #40 of 78
6/11/08 at 3:51pm

Re: complete Magnificent Ambersons

Quote:
Originally Posted by oscar_merkx
it seems that Welles is far more interesting dead than when he was alive.

Thanks for all the links

I don't know. His nitpicking over the semantics of the narration of a British TV commercial for frozen peas is hilarious.
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post #41 of 78
6/11/08 at 3:58pm

Re: complete Magnificent Ambersons

For one thing, if the discovery of the complete film were true, it would be so earth shattering it would probably even be on Entertainment Tonight. Second, Robert Harris would certainly know about it.

As far as the original film goes, I'm sure there were plenty of remarkably complex scenes, plus I hope it maintained more of the actual story. Fundamental things, like how the Ambersons all lost their money and the parceling off of the estate are essentially missing, as well as how the family was so quickly forgotten. There is only one reference to that when George finds "Amberson" missing from the history book.
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post #42 of 78
6/11/08 at 7:15pm

Re: complete Magnificent Ambersons

Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewA
I don't know. His nitpicking over the semantics of the narration of a British TV commercial for frozen peas is hilarious.

O...M...G. I hadn't thought of THAT in a long time! Too funny!

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post #43 of 78
6/11/08 at 7:37pm

Re: complete Magnificent Ambersons

That clip made me think of this clip:
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post #44 of 78
6/11/08 at 8:36pm

Re: complete Magnificent Ambersons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Ellis
One wishes that Mr. Wise (who became a top-notch filmmaker in his own right) had somehow kept the cut scenes and hidden them in his attic. Just what was Welles' ending like, anyway? I only know the current one with George talking with Fanny at the hospital. I have also read that the Wise ending was more in keeping with the Booth Tarkington novel, as opposed to Welles' version. Can anyone provide a link to an explanation of the Welles ending or just write it out here?

There are a couple of glimpses of the original ending in this trailer (e.g.-the shot of Fanny in the Rocking Chair). That scene took place in a boarding house that Fanny ended up having to live in (which was revealed to be the run-down Ambersons mansion, if I'm not mistaken).

The Magnificent Ambersons trailer
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post #45 of 78
6/12/08 at 9:17am

Re: complete Magnificent Ambersons

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRice
For one thing, if the discovery of the complete film were true, it would be so earth shattering it would probably even be on Entertainment Tonight.

Not unless it was found by Heidi from THE HILLS.
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post #46 of 78
6/22/08 at 2:55pm

Re: complete Magnificent Ambersons

This thread should, at the very least, be locked, if not deleted altogether. The original poster has yet to give a source for his assertion that the 131-minute cut had been found. Woeful behaviour.
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post #47 of 78
6/22/08 at 3:05pm

Re: complete Magnificent Ambersons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon McMurphy
This thread should, at the very least, be locked, if not deleted altogether. The original poster has yet to give a source for his assertion that the 131-minute cut had been found. Woeful behaviour.

I second that entirely

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post #48 of 78
6/22/08 at 3:38pm

Re: complete Magnificent Ambersons

The bogus "source" of the rumor is apparently a very bizarre prank of some sort on the TCM comments page for Ambersons: The Magnificent Ambersons (1942) User Reviews
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post #49 of 78
6/22/08 at 3:43pm

Re: complete Magnificent Ambersons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon McMurphy
Woeful behaviour.
In all fairness, he did say "Has anyone else heard about this? Is it true?" It seems to me that he was just trying to get confirmation of it rather than try to propel the rumor.
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post #50 of 78
6/22/08 at 9:08pm

Re: complete Magnificent Ambersons

No, I think the original poster knew what he was doing - it's a simple thing to search, this sort of urban legend, and it's been going around for years. And he never really did take part in the discussion, did he?
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post #51 of 78
6/23/08 at 8:23am

Re: complete Magnificent Ambersons

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyFeldman
No, I think the original poster knew what he was doing - it's a simple thing to search, this sort of urban legend, and it's been going around for years. And he never really did take part in the discussion, did he?
So he's lying but he makes sure to ask if anyone else had heard the info and if it was true? That's not exactly a good way to convince people that your lie is true.
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post #52 of 78
6/23/08 at 10:35am

Re: complete Magnificent Ambersons

It was bad ethics on Jon Lidolt's part. He dumped a rumour in our laps for us to deal with while he went cruising for burgers. I searched Google for about 20-30 minutes for a respectable or semi-respectable article on this and found diddly squat. Now I know why.
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post #53 of 78
6/23/08 at 7:19pm

Re: complete Magnificent Ambersons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon McMurphy
It was bad ethics on Jon Lidolt's part. He dumped a rumour in our laps for us to deal with while he went cruising for burgers. I searched Google for about 20-30 minutes for a respectable or semi-respectable article on this and found diddly squat. Now I know why.

Exactly. To start this thread and never return to it - well, I think that speaks for itself.
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post #54 of 78
6/23/08 at 9:46pm

Re: complete Magnificent Ambersons

Well, at least the discussion was informative.
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post #55 of 78
6/24/08 at 7:05am
Thread Starter 

Re: complete Magnificent Ambersons

I only have one question: is it now a crime to simply ask a question on this forum?
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post #56 of 78
6/24/08 at 8:27am

Re: complete Magnificent Ambersons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Lidolt
I only have one question: is it now a crime to simply ask a question on this forum?
I would say there are certain Holy Grails where you are best off being just a bit careful or you are certain to raise some criticism. It's a simple case of looking both ways before crossing the street, which of course, nobody does anymore.
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post #57 of 78
6/24/08 at 8:35am

Re: complete Magnificent Ambersons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon McMurphy
It was bad ethics on Jon Lidolt's part. He dumped a rumour in our laps for us to deal with while he went cruising for burgers. I searched Google for about 20-30 minutes for a respectable or semi-respectable article on this and found diddly squat. Now I know why.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRice
I would say there are certain Holy Grails where you are best off being just a bit careful or you are certain to raise some criticism. It's a simple case of looking both ways before crossing the street, which of course, nobody does anymore.

Bit much isn't it? A simple questions lead to a fascinating discussion on the history of the film, and you guys are acting like Jon posted hate literature and kicked your dog.

I had no idea the history of these rumors, and fond the stories told, and Robert Harris' talk about his attempt to reconstruct it as interesting as the movie itself probably is ( I never saw it). And having the discussion on the boards might make Warner's notice the interest in the title as well. I see no great harm.

But I guess just because not everyone considers themselves a film historian, merely fans, us lesser mortals should all bow down, keep our mouths shut and lock up the threads so as not to offend those in the know. So sad.
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post #58 of 78
6/24/08 at 9:00am

Re: complete Magnificent Ambersons

The sin was that the question was posted, then the details were discussed which more or less proved that it was the same recycled rumor. In the mean time, the original poster vanished.

I personally didn't know the background either, so I have no problem with the thread. I found some of the input interesting and good to know.
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post #59 of 78
6/24/08 at 9:05am

Re: complete Magnificent Ambersons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Peterson
The sin was that the question was posted, then the details were discussed which more or less proved that it was the same recycled rumor. In the mean time, the original poster vanished.

Again, it shouldn't be a "sin" to ask a questions on a discussion board. As far as the poster vanishing, his questions was answered. Maybe he had nothing else to add?

Anyways, hopefully we see a release of some type of the title. I'm curious to see it.
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post #60 of 78
6/24/08 at 6:33pm

Re: complete Magnificent Ambersons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell G
Again, it shouldn't be a "sin" to ask a questions on a discussion board. As far as the poster vanishing, his questions was answered. Maybe he had nothing else to add?...

The first reply in this thread asked for the source of the story, which would have been helpful. If he indeed came back and had his question answered, he missed or ignored the second post.

And Russell, check this film out! Even truncated it is a masterpiece.
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