Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Blu-ray, DVD, Streaming Video and Digital Downloads › Blu-ray › I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping point...
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping point... - Page 3

post #61 of 89
6/4/08 at 7:23am

Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping poin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
When Walmart becomes the leader in HD/BR sales then that means Blu-ray has become mass market. I agree with you that BR software needs to come down before BR becomes mass market. The less than $300 BR player with a $100 gift card that Walmart is currently offering helps, but the software pricing needs to be addressed by the studios.






Crawdaddy


I noticed that my Walmart has reduced most of their blu-ray movies to $24. A step in the right direction.

Doug
Reply
post #62 of 89
6/4/08 at 7:26am

Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping poin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Blacklow
If you did, it must have been from a promotion or open-box and at the very end of the year. Even at the end of December 1999, retailers were pegging the lowest DVD prices at $199, and the average price was above $250. Even Netflix says average pricing was well over $200-$300 in 1999:


I have no doubt that it was a Walmart special not unlike the $99 HD DVD players last year. But that special popped up again and again over the next year. Of course the average price was $250. Most players were still selling for $350 or above. And again I don't think this was the MSRP for the Apex player. It's suggested price was probably $150 or $200, but Walmart, as they often do, had a deal on them.

Doug
Reply
post #63 of 89
6/4/08 at 7:52am

Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping poin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
I started buying DVDs in 97 and NEVER paid $30 for one. At that point that DVDs came out I wasn't even paying $30 for Laserdiscs anymore.

Doug
Then you were fortunate. When I first saw DVDs on retail shelves, most titles were stickered at 32.99$ and up (a few were 24.99$). This was in New England. In Montreal, with the low Canadian dollar of that time (nearly 60% lower in value than it is now), 45$ was the LOW price and 60$ was not uncommon. By 2001, when I started buying them, they were still around 30$ (I remember splurging for Galaxy Quest at 32.99 plus 15% tax). Until 2003, USED DVDs were routinely 19.99$ at the local video stores and 29.99$ had become the "standard" price for new ones. Today there are scores of 5.99$ specials (usually, older leftovers, but still) and my local video store will now sell me THREE SD DVDs for 12$ (used). Today's BD prices are numerically the same, and, with inflation, CHEAPER than most titles I saw until 2001 on SD DVD.

As for Laserdisc, I never got into that format because I never saw a title selling for less than 50$ (and most were closer to 100$)--in Montreal, at any rate. I didn't demand 20$ laserdiscs and 50$ players, though. I simply went without (and planned to get into laserdisc when I could afford it--SD DVD came along instead). So while Blu-ray will eventually reach "mass-market" prices, I don't expect that as of RIGHT NOW and I maintain that to do so is an unrealistic expectation.
Reply
post #64 of 89
6/4/08 at 8:27am

Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping point...

Around 1998-99, on-line prices were relatively low because Amazon was in steep competition with Reel.com. I remember that almost every DVD was nearly always 60% off MRSP which translated in prices of $14 to $20 for new DVDs. Reel.com also had these games where you could earn dollars making it possible to get DVDs for next to nothing. When Reel.com stopped selling DVDs, Amazon (and other e-tailers) raised their prices significantly.
Reply
post #65 of 89
6/4/08 at 9:07am

Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping poin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny_N
Around 1998-99, on-line prices were relatively low because Amazon was in steep competition with Reel.com. I remember that almost every DVD was nearly always 60% off MRSP which translated in prices of $14 to $20 for new DVDs. Reel.com also had these games where you could earn dollars making it possible to get DVDs for next to nothing. When Reel.com stopped selling DVDs, Amazon (and other e-tailers) raised their prices significantly.
Perhaps this is the source of the different experiences. I never bought or even shopped for media online until 2003 or so--certainly not in the late 90s when I did not have a PC at home, never mind an internet connection (I used the internet for work and research purposes only back then and I did all of that from the school where I taught at the time). All of my exposure to SD DVD until 2003 was in B&M stores only.
Reply
post #66 of 89
6/4/08 at 10:45am

Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping point...

For me DVD seemed cheap in the late 90s (with some exceptions) because I was used to paying a lot more for LD. I also remeber taking advantage of the internet boom: Reel.com, 800.com, etc. I helped put several sites out of business thanks to their willingness to sell me things below their cost. I find I only buy BD on the really good sales.
Reply
post #67 of 89
6/4/08 at 11:39am

Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping poin

To me, it´s mainly about the quality. It´s not a huge problem for me to pay e.g. 20$ for some release with good 1080p quality, lossless audio and extras. First two (1080p and lossless) are something, that already beats the SD DVD hands down.

Of course, getting the Blu-ray prices down to the "SD DVD level" is something that I also wish, but at *this point* I can live with 20$ (or so) price range.

Then again, if some release has "mediocre" (well, "mediocre" means different things to different people, but still..) 1080p-transfer and no extras - and the price is still around 27$, I probably pass and wait for the upcoming "BOGO"-sales etc. I don´t want to kid myself here, since I have already probably over 150 (or something) Blu-ray/HD DVD/SD DVD-titles on my shelf "to be watched", so I´m not really in a hurry to watch everything as soon as they´re being released... It´s crazy actually..

Then again, if I love the film enough...
Reply
post #68 of 89
6/4/08 at 12:03pm

Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping poin

I buy blu when the discs are on sale or bogo offers. I think blu will be huge (relatively) this Christmas.
Reply
post #69 of 89
6/4/08 at 2:27pm

Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping point...

Blu Ray has several challenges. First, of course, are the worries of recession. If people believe times are tight, are they going to buy $300+ players and $30 movies en masse?

Second, BR's competition is growing. Can it take the market against OTA HD, HD Cable, HD Tivo, On-Demand cable with very recent movies, AppleTV, Netflix Roku, movies online (Hulu etc), and movies easily "pirated" online. Plus three great console systems vying for entertainment dollars and hours.

And, perhaps redundantly, there's the simple cost of the upgrade. It's the toy that keeps on taking. Who wants to pay $30 for discs when $5 DVDs are commonplace. I look to an affluent relative, in a $500k home, who owns hundreds of DVDs and is about to buy a $5000 Plasma: he won't buy BluRay because he thinks $30 movies are too expensive.
Reply
post #70 of 89
6/4/08 at 3:15pm

Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping poin

BD is going to do fine. There are simply too many of us Home Theater enthusiasts. And now that new releases are going day and date w/ the SD version, most BD owners will buy or at least rent the BD version.

The big challenge is that most people just don't "get" HD. Everywhere I go (bank lobbies, restaurants, businesses, other people's homes) I see stretched SD material on HDTVs. It looks like horse$#@$.

Until the public figures this out, how are they going to understand BD?

But home theater enthusiasts like us will be buying these BD discs. We're got a hobby that we all love. And we love showing it off.
Reply
post #71 of 89
6/4/08 at 3:25pm

Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping point...

Everyone keeps mentioning BOGO sales but when was the last time Amazon had one of those, January?

Yes I know other retailers have had some here and there, the last I remember being Target but those discs were 29.99 to start with so it really wasn’t as great as when Amazon had the sales.
Reply
post #72 of 89
6/4/08 at 3:33pm

Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping poin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick_S
Everyone keeps mentioning BOGO sales but when was the last time Amazon had one of those, January?

Yes I know other retailers have had some here and there, the last I remember being Target but those discs were 29.99 to start with so it really wasn’t as great as when Amazon had the sales.

Well last year there was a BOGO sale every other week. I think they feel that now that they have won, they don't need to do them anymore. Or at least not as often.

Doug
Reply
post #73 of 89
6/4/08 at 5:41pm

Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping poin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jari K
No, that is not what I meant. Blu-ray obviously needs to lower ALL prices in some degree (both software and hardware) and that magical MSRP should be lower from that start. We all agree on that one, I´m sure.

I see what you mean. Thanks for the clarification.

John
Reply
post #74 of 89
6/4/08 at 6:09pm

Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping poin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
I read in March that HDTVs are in about 40% of American homes.

Doug

That sounds about right to me. My point is, of this 40% [or whatever the actual number might be] many still have no interest in or knowledge of Blu Ray. While a HDTV can probably be considered a pre-requisite for owning a Blu Ray player, the opposite is not true. Further, of the remaining 60% who do not currently own a HDTV, it is basically a forgone conclusion that they eventually will.

At some point, HDTV will reach critical mass. The US government has all but guaranteed it. Blu Ray has no such assurance, thus people still need to be "incentivized." Lower prices (along with some educational marketing) are the quickest route to this.

John
Reply
post #75 of 89
6/5/08 at 12:19pm

Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping poin

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Deeb
The big challenge is that most people just don't "get" HD. Everywhere I go (bank lobbies, restaurants, businesses, other people's homes) I see stretched SD material on HDTVs. It looks like horse$#@$..

It could be, that it´s more like they don´t understand aspect ratios and don´t know how to use "set-up menu" with their TV-set. Now with their fancy WIDESCREEN-sets, everything has to "fill the screen", so 4:3-material is "stretched" and some people even use "zoom" with 2.35:1-material.. It´s of course quite sad.
Reply
post #76 of 89
6/5/08 at 12:47pm

Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping point...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Gregorich
For me DVD seemed cheap in the late 90s (with some exceptions) because I was used to paying a lot more for LD. I also remeber taking advantage of the internet boom: Reel.com, 800.com, etc. I helped put several sites out of business thanks to their willingness to sell me things below their cost. I find I only buy BD on the really good sales.
Oh man . . . 800.com was awesome. Three DVDs for $1.00. Thankfully we were pretty early adopters of DVD, so I was able to use all of my family and friends addresses to max-out this promotion. I think I ended up with 24 DVDs for $8.00 total - a great way to start a collection. When I think about the nearly $10,000 dollars I've invested in the format overall - I still think it was worth it for the format.
Reply
post #77 of 89
6/5/08 at 2:30pm

Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping poin

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanWG
Oh man . . . 800.com was awesome...

I remember 800.com. Great deals while they lasted.

John
Reply
post #78 of 89
6/5/08 at 7:48pm

Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping poin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jari K
It could be, that it´s more like they don´t understand aspect ratios and don´t know how to use "set-up menu" with their TV-set. Now with their fancy WIDESCREEN-sets, everything has to "fill the screen", so 4:3-material is "stretched" and some people even use "zoom" with 2.35:1-material.. It´s of course quite sad.

Risking momentarily drifting even further off-subject - even one of my local TV stations is so clueless that they squeeze their video vertically so they can run sports scores or something across the bottom. I never actually read it, so I'm not sure what it is. Anyhow, it adds another twenty or more pounds to their news-readers!

Back to our regularly scheduled program, already in progress.....
Reply
post #79 of 89
6/6/08 at 11:32am

Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping poin

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Dirk
I remember 800.com. Great deals while they lasted.

John

Great deals indeed though one has to wonder whether the economic impact of such was worth it. I love a great deal just like anyone else, but I wouldn't really want to see more of the same right now (w/ another .com crash and all that)...

_Man_
Reply
post #80 of 89
6/6/08 at 1:30pm

Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping point...

The Apex pricing was weird because of a number of factors. The very first model was readily hackable not only to remove region coding, but Macrovision as well. As I recall, it sold in the summer of 1998 for about $175 off the shelves, but when Steve Tannehill and others started letting people know what that thing could do, you couldn't get them for love or money---they ran $400 regularly on eBay. They were insanely hot. The followup models were still hackable but not as easily and when they came in mass quantities then the price cratered and that let to the $80 prices. Still, the basic price was pretty attractive that early in the life cycle of DVD. And my first generation Apex is still playing fine.
Reply
post #81 of 89
6/6/08 at 3:11pm

Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping point...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Zimmer
The Apex pricing was weird because of a number of factors. The very first model was readily hackable not only to remove region coding, but Macrovision as well. As I recall, it sold in the summer of 1998 for about $175 off the shelves, but when Steve Tannehill and others started letting people know what that thing could do, you couldn't get them for love or money---they ran $400 regularly on eBay. They were insanely hot. The followup models were still hackable but not as easily and when they came in mass quantities then the price cratered and that let to the $80 prices. Still, the basic price was pretty attractive that early in the life cycle of DVD. And my first generation Apex is still playing fine.

Thanks for the extra bit of info/reminder though the info I found, which corroborates w/ my own recollections, point to sometime more like late 1999 or early 2000 as the initial release date for those 1st batches of Apex players (at the ~$180 price point). And the <$100 pricing probably didn't happen (as a regular thing) until late 2000 or sometime in 2001.

_Man_
Reply
post #82 of 89
6/7/08 at 1:12am

Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping poin

Blu-ray players are still a flop in the US, says NPD | Technology | guardian.co.uk
Reply
post #83 of 89
6/7/08 at 4:30am

Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping point...

Thats funny John. I knew it would be a crap story the second i read that HD DVD was doing better than Blu-ray. Thanks for the laugh anyway.
Reply
post #84 of 89
6/7/08 at 10:14am

Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping poin

Those sales stats have been brought up in another thread but the drop in sales between January and February numbers being quoted in that article conveniently forget that the format war ended in January. With the format war ending that month, there was a big sales increase in January so the sales in February were going to decline no matter what.

It's just another example of using stats to fit the point they want to make. In this case, they want to say "The sky is falling" so they make sure not to give any context to place them in so it sounds bad.
Reply
post #85 of 89
6/7/08 at 10:52am

Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping poin

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickER
Thats funny John. I knew it would be a crap story the second i read that HD DVD was doing better than Blu-ray. Thanks for the laugh anyway.

You're very welcome!
Reply
post #86 of 89
6/9/08 at 12:07am

Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping point...

I think I would be able to stomach the higher prices for the software if there was more on the disc than just the movie. I'm not paying 35 bucks for a movie-only disc of Commando or RoboCop. That just isn't going to happen.
Reply
post #87 of 89
6/9/08 at 6:32am

Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping point...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronMan
I think I would be able to stomach the higher prices for the software if there was more on the disc than just the movie. I'm not paying 35 bucks for a movie-only disc of Commando or RoboCop. That just isn't going to happen.
That's a poor example of the format as a whole, considering that most releases have plenty of special features, and sell for less than $35.
Reply
post #88 of 89
6/9/08 at 8:47am

Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping point...

I don't know if this was mentioned here yet (too busy to read it all) but I just came across the following link that had some interesting numbers about BR sales.

Here is the link:
Hollywood In Hi-Def

Here is a sample:
Quote:
Blu-ray software sales in the first four months of this year more than quadrupled from the same period last year, climbing to 11 million since inception.

So it would seem that all the doom and gloom talk is not justifed.
Reply
post #89 of 89
6/9/08 at 9:54am

Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping point...

Well, if Blu-ray is going to be a complete failure then someone forgot to tell the rental stores in my area. While still small, the BD section at local video stores are steadily increasing in size.

I asked the clerks about the rental rate of BD discs. They told me that the rental rate has increased quite a bit, since HD DVD threw in the towel.
I also notice that they are starting to bring in more than one copy of a particular film for rental.

While I do not believe that BD will supplant DVD any time soon, I also think BD will prove to be more than a niche market.
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Blu-ray
Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Blu-ray, DVD, Streaming Video and Digital Downloads › Blu-ray › I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping point...