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*** Official Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull Discussion Thread - Page 4

post #91 of 434
5/26/08 at 3:15pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeRS
Nostalgia cuts both ways, Chuck. It can also make one harder on this film because like all sequels, it is the same but different. The fact that the different is mixed with the same is what creates violent (emotionally-speaking) reactions. So that's the darkside of nostalgia.


And while nostalgia allows folks to be more forgiving of the "unforgivable sins of "Doom" and "Crusade" in retrospect, this episode get's raked over coals in the here and now.


Cuts both ways.....


I have to agree with this. And the fact that Crystal Skull is not simply a rehash of the other films I think is one of the reasons that I really like it.

Doug
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post #92 of 434
5/26/08 at 3:20pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Mayer
Doom and Crusade were much tighter films with much stronger scripts than this one. You've admitted that as much yourself. You could nitpick all four films, but IV would take a lot longer to complete the list.


I disagree with this. While Crusade is pretty tight, the script for Doom is a mess.

Doug
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post #93 of 434
5/26/08 at 3:26pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Conway
One of my favorite moments in Raiders is right after Indy and Marion have successfully destroyed the plane the Nazis had planned to fly the Ark out on. There's a scene establishing that our heroes are okay, if extremely tired, and they meet up again with Sallah. At this point Sallah mentions that the Ark is now being loaded on to a truck instead, to which Indy gives a look of exhausted determination and blithely responds, "Truck? What truck?" It's the perfect tease. Just as we feel our hero has done everything we'll need to ask of him and can rest, not only does he need to get right back to action, but he doesn't even question it. He just knows that despite his fatigue he needs to get to action, right now. It's also a perfect beat for an action screenplay: give the audience a false sense of an extended breather, and then go on to completely top the great action scene we've just witnessed with another one.

As I previously mentioned, the plane fight / desert chase in Raiders is one of the great 1-2 punches (with regards to action sequences) in film history, with a marvelous segue...so I totally agree...
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post #94 of 434
5/26/08 at 3:27pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete-D
Jedi's still more than watchable for me.

If the Ewoks were Wookies instead, but behaved exactly the same way otherwise I don't think as many people would have issues with it. It's not like the Ewoks were even that bad ... they're very clearly a nomadic, warrior race that know when to shut up and kick ass (teddy bears don't try and roast you for dinner either). The Jabba scenes do get a little "Muppet-ey" sure, but then you got the whole metal bikini thing going on to balance that out, lol.

Otherwise it's a fairly solid picture, Ian McDiarmid actually manages to outshine the iconic Darth Vader (no small feat), and the action set pieces are probably the best of any Lucasfilm picture (yes Indy films and prequels included). The space battle and forest bike chase are spectacular. The Luke-Emperor-Vader scenes are very dramatic and some of the best in the OT for drama.

I still think that Jedi is light years ahead even by today's standards partly due that GL had all the necessary resources - money and ILM @ his disposal.

For me Indy IV simply works
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post #95 of 434
5/26/08 at 3:33pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete-D
Jedi's still more than watchable for me.

If the Ewoks were Wookies instead, but behaved exactly the same way otherwise I don't think as many people would have issues with it. It's not like the Ewoks were even that bad ... they're very clearly a nomadic, warrior race that know when to shut up and kick ass (teddy bears don't try and roast you for dinner either). The Jabba scenes do get a little "Muppet-ey" sure, but then you got the whole metal bikini thing going on to balance that out, lol.

Otherwise it's a fairly solid picture, Ian McDiarmid actually manages to outshine the iconic Darth Vader (no small feat), and the action set pieces are probably the best of any Lucasfilm picture (yes Indy films and prequels included). The space battle and forest bike chase are spectacular. The Luke-Emperor-Vader scenes are very dramatic and some of the best in the OT for drama.


For me the tone of the films changes so radically in Jedi, its like a completely different universe. The acting in the "hes my father" scene between Luke and Leia is SOOOOOO bad and so out of character for both of them that its painful, until Ford walks into the scene and suddenly feels like Star Wars again.

Boba Fett was totally wasted. I wanted to see him stick around till the end and have a western style shoot out with Han Solo.

I did like Darth's sacrifice, but the bits leading up to it, again Mark Hamill seemed to think he was in a Shakespeare play.

The speeder bike chase was great though.

Doug
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post #96 of 434
5/26/08 at 3:37pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

1) I addressed the nostalgia issue for Mike already. No need to rehash for you, Doug.

2) ToD's script isn't great, but it's good enough. The story is different, but Indy is very much the same. It also has a real spark of energy that fed into the direction.

3) SS really does seem on auto-pilot for KotCS, and that's my biggest complaint. I don't mind that the film is a bit different. I don't mind that Indy is a bit older and wiser and less physical. That all makes sense. I do mind that he is so reactive. Because he isn't as vicious in this one, it didn't feel like the stakes were so high. He was pretty ruthless in the first three films. It lent his character some edge and some energy. This film had lots of action, but little energy. I don't blame Ford...I blame a script that makes him more passive and a director without a ton of focus.

4) All of the pieces are there, but it never really gels. And I never got the laughs from it (most Indy being wry) I got from the other three. There are some laughs, but it venerates Indy more than it challenges him. He's better when he is the underdog. One of the differences between Indy and Bond.
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post #97 of 434
5/26/08 at 3:44pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Conway

One of my favorite moments in Raiders is right after.......


I really like "Crystal Skull" and "Temple Of Doom". I'm okay with "Last Crusade" after almost 20 years of viewings.

I wouldn't be mean and compare any of them to "Raiders".
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post #98 of 434
5/26/08 at 3:45pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Conway

Anyway, I've talked about these films way too much the last few days. What I really need to do is watch Raiders of the Lost Ark again and leave KotCS in the rearviewmirror.


I agree with you 100%.
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post #99 of 434
5/26/08 at 3:54pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Mayer
1)

2) ToD's script isn't great, but it's good enough. The story is different, but Indy is very much the same. It also has a real spark of energy that fed into the direction.


My problem with the TOD script is that its all over the place. It doesn't know if it wants to be a musical, an adventure film, a screwball comedy, or a horror movie. I don't have a problem with all of these elements being in the same film, they are just not blended well. The transition from one to the other is not very successful.

I will say however that while TOD is my least favorite Indy film, its head and shoulders above any other modern adventure film I've ever seen.

Doug
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post #100 of 434
5/26/08 at 3:56pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

I have a quick question.. when I saw indy 4 for the second time..

there were some people swarming like they had antz on them..during the scene..
anyone else have that reaction.
never seen that before in a movie.
Jacob
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post #101 of 434
5/26/08 at 4:02pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBat
there were some people swarming like they had antz on them..during the scene..
anyone else have that reaction.
never seen that before in a movie.
Jacob

The only time I ever reacted like that, and still do I might add, is during the E G Marshall segment called They're Creeping Up On You in Creepshow.

I HATE cockroaches!!!!!!!!
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post #102 of 434
5/26/08 at 4:15pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector Hammer!
The only time I ever reacted like that, and still do I might add, is during the E G Marshall segment called They're Creeping Up On You in Creepshow.

I HATE cockroaches!!!!!!!!

"There aren't going to be anymore damn BUGS!"
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post #103 of 434
5/26/08 at 5:03pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

1. Raiders
2. Crusade
3. Crystal Skull
4. Temple of Doom
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The Mummy
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post #104 of 434
5/26/08 at 5:33pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
I'm not sure if the crystal scull, and the bodies, were the actual aliens or if they were some kind of machines or robots. The alien body on the table in the camp surely didn't have a crystal body.

Doug
That was the inference with the alien autopsy: the head was cut open with the skull missing. And it was stated directly that the aliens have crystalline skeletons.

But that being a machine makes no sense either: why would they make a self-constructing alien that flies home, after destroying the local inhabitants and exploding the brain of whomever reassembles the skulls?

Fun movie, but the "McGuffin" lacks the internal logic of the past Indy movies.
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post #105 of 434
5/26/08 at 6:39pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete-D
Jedi's still more than watchable for me.

If the Ewoks were Wookies instead, but behaved exactly the same way otherwise I don't think as many people would have issues with it. It's not like the Ewoks were even that bad ... they're very clearly a nomadic, warrior race that know when to shut up and kick ass (teddy bears don't try and roast you for dinner either). The Jabba scenes do get a little "Muppet-ey" sure, but then you got the whole metal bikini thing going on to balance that out, lol.

Otherwise it's a fairly solid picture, Ian McDiarmid actually manages to outshine the iconic Darth Vader (no small feat), and the action set pieces are probably the best of any Lucasfilm picture (yes Indy films and prequels included). The space battle and forest bike chase are spectacular. The Luke-Emperor-Vader scenes are very dramatic and some of the best in the OT for drama.
Wanna see this thread really go off the rails



...nah.
I won't take the bait this time. I'll just swim away
bubble bubble bubble

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post #106 of 434
5/26/08 at 8:14pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Mayer
Because he isn't as vicious in this one, it didn't feel like the stakes were so high. He was pretty ruthless in the first three films.

Was he really vicious or ruthless in Last Crusade? That's one of the reason I think that Last Crusade was really the template for Kingdom far more than the first two. With Kingdom it feels like Lucas and Spielberg said "man, everyone seemed to love Last Crusade so let's just do that one again".
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post #107 of 434
5/26/08 at 8:18pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

It just struck me that if I see Indy IV this week, it will be the first time I qualify for a "senior citizen" rate at the movies.

Is there something ironic about that, or what?
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post #108 of 434
5/26/08 at 9:19pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Nicholls
It just struck me that if I see Indy IV this week, it will be the first time I qualify for a "senior citizen" rate at the movies.
Harrison Ford, too.

I saw it tonight, and while it's not in the same league as Raiders, it was an enjoyable film and I liked the nod to Raiders in the beginning of the film, and I liked the way the film wrapped up as well. But then, I went in not expecting much (the Star Wars prequels did that to me). Had I been expecting a film of the same quality as the first one (or even the 2nd or 3rd), I would have been disappointed.
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post #109 of 434
5/26/08 at 9:24pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

It's interesting that they used the same low-key, almost third-rate titles for this movie that they used in Raiders and Last Crusade. Only Temple has the big logo title splashed across the screen. They ought to go back and Special Edition it to have the other kind of titles, but they probably wouldn't fit with the flashy musical number.

So, we've had the Paramount mountain fade into a mountain, a carving on a gong, and a groundhog mound. What did it fade into in Last Crusade? I can't remember right now.
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post #110 of 434
5/26/08 at 9:32pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent M
Nah, Episode I and II at least had some inventive stuff in them that we'd never seen before. There was nothing in Indy IV that was revolutionary or even semi cutting edge for that matter. The action set pieces were flat as a pancake and regardless of what you think about TPM and AOTC they did have their fair share of "WOW" moments. Overall I find those flicks light years ahead of Crystal Skull.
So, now every movie must be revolutionary or cutting edge to be enjoyable? That's crazy and no wonder people don't have fun at the movies any more if that is what they are looking for every time.

Plus, I don't think there was anything revolutionary about Episode I and II. CGI wasn't invented for those films, we'd seen it before quite a bit. Maybe not on the scale Lucas used it in Ep.I but, CGI was not new. Jar Jar wasn't even the first CGI character, Dragonheart was first I think. While Ep.I used these tools to a greater extent then any film before it, I wouldn't really call it revolutionary. JMO

I don't see how anyone can say Ep.I is a better film then KOTCS. Ep.I is a horrible movie and I can't make 30 minutes into it before cutting it off these days. It's just boring. KOTCS was never boring IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg_S_H
So, we've had the Paramount mountain fade into a mountain, a carving on a gong, and a groundhog mound. What did it fade into in Last Crusade? I can't remember right now.
A mountain in the desert.
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post #111 of 434
5/26/08 at 9:41pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Monument Valley.
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post #112 of 434
5/26/08 at 9:45pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Thanks. It's actually in the disc drive right now, but I was too lazy to check it out myself.
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post #113 of 434
5/26/08 at 10:01pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Will

Jar Jar wasn't even the first CGI character, Dragonheart was first I think. While Ep.I used these tools to a greater extent then any film before it, I wouldn't really call it revolutionary. JMO

Technically the first CG character was the stained glass knight in Young Sherlock Holmes in 1985.

Doug
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post #114 of 434
5/26/08 at 10:03pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeRS
Monument Valley.

It wasn't shot in Monument Valley. That was actually in Arches National Park, Moab, Utah.

Doug
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post #115 of 434
5/27/08 at 3:28am
Thread Starter 

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
Technically the first CG character was the stained glass knight in Young Sherlock Holmes in 1985.

Doug

Yup.

By 1995, CGI I think really hit critical mass with the aforementioned Dragonheart, Capser (full CGI characters + live action) and Toy Story (full CGI feature with dozens of characters) all being big hits.

Having a CGI character, even one that interacted with live actors was no big deal at all by 1999. Honestly I think The Matrix was the movie that year that blew people's minds in terms of special effects, not TPM.
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post #116 of 434
5/27/08 at 5:43am

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

The Stained Glass Knight wasn't a character per se. Not the way I think of it. It was basically window dressing (though mind-blowing at the time). I'd be hard-pressed to call the water tentacle (The Abyss) a character either, though it's more of one than the Stained Glass Knight. The T-1000 was probably the first character in a movie to make major use of CG. How can you guys forget Cameron? He is the reason the technology was there for Jurassic Park. He pushed it harder than anybody for the late eighties and the early nineties...the time CG became viable. Credit where it's due.

Kevin,
I'd say he was. He threatened (almost in a misogynous way) Elsa with a choking, shot a crap-ton of Nazis, threw down a cripple to get the cross of Coronado, etc. Still softer than ToD and Raiders, I agree. But not nearly like he was in this (even though the stakes were just as high...I guess). He did shoot the RPG and blow back the dartgun, but that weas about it. Just had a bit less of an edge, and I really like the edge for the character.
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post #117 of 434
5/27/08 at 5:45am

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete-D
The Matrix was the movie that year that blew people's minds in terms of special effects, not TPM.

I thought the Matrix was really ho hum. By the time it had come out I was already seeing the "bullet-time" effect in TV commercials. In fact the first feature film that I remember seeing that effect in was Lost in Space in 1998. I didn't think they were doing anything particularly revolutionary either.

Doug
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post #118 of 434
5/27/08 at 5:47am

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

There is my great white whale, Doug. But I'll let it go, for the sake of this thread. Read some Star Wars Saga threads to get my read on The Matrix absolutely deserving to win that Oscar. It's not even close, really.
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post #119 of 434
5/27/08 at 5:51am

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Mayer
The Stained Glass Knight wasn't a character per se. Not the way I think of it. It was basically window dressing (though mind-blowing at the time). I'd be hard-pressed to call the water tentacle (The Abyss) a character either, though it's more of one than the Stained Glass Knight. The T-1000 was probably the first character in a movie to make major use of CG. How can you guys forget Cameron? He is the reason the technology was there for Jurassic Park. He pushed it harder than anybody for the late eighties and the early nineties...the time CG became viable. Credit where it's due.

Well it was the first in terms of CGI actually interacting with live action and showing that a CGI element can hold up with live action and look photo realistic. Before that CGI was mostly relegated to the kinds of things seen in The Last Starfighter.

Doug
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post #120 of 434
5/27/08 at 5:55am

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Mayer
There is my great white whale, Doug. But I'll let it go, for the sake of this thread. Read some Star Wars Saga threads to get my read on The Matrix absolutely deserving to win that Oscar. It's not even close, really.

I was completely unimpressed with The Matrix. When I look back on the film now its really amazing to me how it really doesn't hold up very well. It looks so 90s.

Doug
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