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*** Official Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull Discussion Thread - Page 6

post #151 of 434
5/27/08 at 12:08pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Whatever happened to the days when we had review threads and discussion threads?

Anyway, I didn't like the movie. I liked everything except the story. I enjoyed Ford very much, I even liked the moments when he took the backseat and Shia was doing the "action" (i didn't care if Mutt lived or died, I just liked Indy's role in the movie). That part was fine for me. The story, IMHO, was just a notch above terrible. This is all they could come up with in all these years? I like all the previous movies, with ToD being the weakest one. But ToD was leap years ahead of this film in terms of action, story, and purpose.

Just plain boring, and no, had nothing to do with expectations. I saw the movie with someone who had no prior love for indiana jones, and they were even more bored than me because they didn't love the character.
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post #152 of 434
5/27/08 at 1:03pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwon Chang
I disagree completely. In rewatching the trilogy, I just LOVE the fonts used in Raiders and Crusade. The big INDIANA JONES logo behind Willie in Doom seemed out of place to me. When I saw the old logo and the original fonts in Skull, I was quite pleased.

You agree with me completely! I said I was glad they used the Raiders font and almost wish they'd go back and change the fonts of Temple to match! I can see where it might have sounded like I wanted the Temple font in all the movies, but not at all.

I really don't even think they should mess with Temple at this point, but it was a mostly tongue-in-cheek comment.

I knew a new Lucas film would bring back some of our missing members. Welcome back, Richard. Now, I just am a little concerned about the absence of Tim Glover. I would have thought this would have brought him back for sure.
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post #153 of 434
5/27/08 at 1:17pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg_S_H
You agree with me completely! I said I was glad they used the Raiders font and almost wish they'd go back and change the fonts of Temple to match! I can see where it might have sounded like I wanted the Temple font in all the movies, but not at all.

I really don't even think they should mess with Temple at this point, but it was a mostly tongue-in-cheek comment.

I knew a new Lucas film would bring back some of our missing members. Welcome back, Richard. Now, I just am a little concerned about the absence of Tim Glover. I would have thought this would have brought him back for sure.

Yeah, I thought Tim might have been dead or something but he's not. Weird.
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post #154 of 434
5/27/08 at 1:22pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

I haven't seen Tim around here in months. I wonder where he is.
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post #155 of 434
5/27/08 at 1:25pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent M
I haven't seen Tim around here in months. I wonder where he is.
He got abducted by ARIENS! AND he's also partying hard with them.
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post #156 of 434
5/27/08 at 1:58pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack Gibbs
Yeah, I thought Tim might have been dead or something but he's not. Weird.

Wow. That would sound pretty bad if you hadn't gotten word from him. Even if he isn't interested in coming around any more, I'm glad he's okay.
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post #157 of 434
5/27/08 at 2:15pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Grey
I think his sensibilities are very much toward pushing the edge a bit in otherwise PG/PG-13 material but he took such criticism in '84 that he seems almost too conservative now, like he's having to second guess all of his instincts.


In terms of the Indy franchise, I agree. I think after the "Doom" fallout, Spielberg plays it much safer in terms of tone with both "Last Crusade" and "Skull". Although I really enjoy "Skulls", it would be a better film if there was a antagonist presence on the level of Toht (really creepy) or Mola Ram (satanic evil). It would just raise the stakes.

But one of the reasons I enjoy "Skull" over "Last Crusade" is that it's tone is heavier in comparison to the flat-out (extremely) light comedy feel that permeates "Last Crusade".
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post #158 of 434
5/27/08 at 2:16pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

I had more fun with War of the Worlds than KotCS.

The alien attack scene, mob scene, and several other sequences are incredibly tense and fun.

The ending was a bit of a let down, but I was entertained overall.

The one thing I found interesting about TLC is on the DVD box set special features George Lucas mentions the original intent for TLC was to make a "haunted mansion" film.
The mansion still got put into the movie, sorta.

I'm beginning to think you really can't take more than a 5-6 year break in between sequels and still retain the magic of your predecessors. Maybe Rocky Balboa was the exception to that ...
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post #159 of 434
5/27/08 at 2:25pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

When I think of Last Crusade, I definitely think of plenty of cutesy bits of business. The movie is wall to wall with that stuff- as well as established characters behaving out-of-character for cheap laughs, derviative set-pieces, weak antagonists, etc etc etc
In fact, that was probably the first Spielberg movie I saw where I thought to myself afterwards "what happened to him? It was like he was on auto pilot the whole time. This movie was beneath him."
The only reason I don't go off on voluminous rants about these films (like I used to about Jedi) is that they are thankfully self contained and I can ignore or accept them as I see fit. All these problems that people are finally seeing with some clarity, have been qualities I've seen creep into LFL product since 1983. I don't know if it was because these guys were rearing young children at the time, but to my eyes it's always been plain how much more childish and hack-like this product (both franchises) has gotten compared to the output in the late 70's thru Raiders. I see very little distinction between the out of character humour in Jedi to the out-of-character humour in Last Crusade. Ditto for the childishly simplistic (and resolved) familial conflicts amongst other things.
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post #160 of 434
5/27/08 at 2:27pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

The funny thing is I'm pretty certain "Last Crusade" is Spielberg's favorite of the Indy films.

He got more free reign over that story whereas I think Temple of Doom was more of George's thing.

My favorite part of TLC is the opening with River Phoenix. Man he really nails a lot of Ford's mannerisms (the part where he checks his chin for blood is dead on) and the whole train bit was perfect.
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post #161 of 434
5/27/08 at 2:55pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

The Connery/"Indiana" bit during "Crusade's" climax is emotional and has aged very well. I don't remember having a lump in my throat the two times seeing it at the theater in '89, but that moment is actually moving to me now. In '89, all I kept thinking was that the climax felt limp and saccharine compared to "Raiders" (WRATH OF GOD) or "Doom" (MOLA RAM -- YOU'RE ABOUT TO MEET KALI -- IN HELL). And I probably was just annoyed by the weightless tone of the film up until that point.

But it really is a good moment...

YouTube - Indiana Jones-The last crusade: Highlight 11 of 12
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post #162 of 434
5/27/08 at 3:00pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Kim
Regarding the ending: The Aliens, through Oxley tells the group that they are greatful for restoring the skull to its rightful place and that they will grant any wish that they want (remember Indy saying that "whoever returns the skull to the city temple will be given control over its power" from the trailer). Spalko says that she wants to know everything the aliens know. They grant her her wish, but her feeble human mind can't handle all that advanced knowledge, and her brain explodes due to information overload (Indy tells her "Be careful what you wish for" earlier in the film).
SO I get that, but the rest of still is baffling me. Why do skeletons make the saucer now? Why not 5000 years ago when they were first assembled? The vortex? Are these real aliens, a robot, auto-pilot system to send the trophies home? Why does the saucer of an obviously benevolent and helpful race destroy the entire area?

We're to feel bad for the natives, killed by the evil Commies...except they were already doomed to be massacred by the saucer launch.

It just makes no sense. And there's no reason for this gap. Raiders and Crusade had some basic internal logic. Sinful man can't behold the glory of God. Mortal man can't possess the chalice of Christ as treasure. Got it.

The aliens? Beats me.
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post #163 of 434
5/27/08 at 3:04pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete-D
The funny thing is I'm pretty certain "Last Crusade" is Spielberg's favorite of the Indy films.

I'm sure it was a blast to make for him so it might be one of those "a lot of the times the best on set experience doesn't equal the best movie" things.

His disownership of Doom really bothers me. Lucas likes to take the blame (with his "I was going through a divorce" quip always at the ready) but I think it's sensibilities are very in line with Spielberg, especially looking at other stuff he's produced like Poltergeist, Gremlins, and The Goonies. Never mind the fact that key setpieces like the Shanghai opening, plane/raft/river escape and minecart sequence were ripped wholesale from the first scripts for Raiders that both of them came up with.
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post #164 of 434
5/27/08 at 3:17pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Davatchi
I really don't get the War of the Worlds bit. It was an excellent movie. It was actually perfect, except the very last line of course.
What's wrong with the last line? Isn't straight from the book? Just don't understand the criticism about the ending of WOTW. Did anyone read the book, it's the same ending. Why is the ending good enough for a classic book but not a Spielberg movie?
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post #165 of 434
5/27/08 at 3:34pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

The reason why I think TLC is Spielberg's favorite is because the father-son relationship as a theme resonates with him.

I actually remember reading that Spielberg while he enjoyed doing Raiders was somewhat depressed making it because he wanted to do a more personal type of a movie, that was part of the genesis of E.T.
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post #166 of 434
5/27/08 at 5:52pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

I am just getting up to speed in this thread. I have not seen Indy IV yet. But one question. Is it better than Howard the Duck? yea, im talkin to you Ron!

Also hated the lame ending to Spielberg's War of the Worlds. About as good as that B movie Damnation Alley. Horrid.

Hope to see Indy next week.
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post #167 of 434
5/27/08 at 5:54pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Mayer

No. Opening weekend is about how many people wanted to SEE the film. You don't get your money back when a movie disappoints you. Box office only shows how many people SEE a movie, not how many people like a movie. That said, I'd love to keep PT discussion in that thread. It never fails to derail a reasonable conversation.

If that were the case why did Speed Racer die? It's only made $67 million. Why didn't all the Wachowski brothers fans go out and see it? Why has Prince Caspian only made $120 million? Because word of mouth travels fast, and a movie doesn't reach $300 million with out repeat viewing.

I've seen the film 3 times now. The theater I've seen it in has added 8 auditoriums from the 3 they had opening day. Every time I've seen it its sold out, and the audience is full of families. And they are laughing at the funny parts, jumping at the scary parts and cheering at the end of the picture. There is a reason that this movie has a B- user rating on Yahoo. People are really enjoying it.

Doug
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post #168 of 434
5/27/08 at 5:58pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein

War of the Worlds. No doubt Spielberg's darkest moment in his
very distinguished career. Don't know how that can be argued.

I'm sorry but I really have to disagree with this. War of the Worlds is one of my favorite Spielberg films. He captured the sense of chaos and uncertainty that happens in moments of national crisis like no film I've ever seen before.

Doug
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post #169 of 434
5/27/08 at 6:01pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein
I think the final three Star Wars films were shameful.

War of the Worlds. No doubt Spielberg's darkest moment in his
very distinguished career. Don't know how that can be argued.

Ron, Ron! Settle down! I have the solution for you. The prequels don't exist.
Say it to yourself ten times and your calm will return. Works for me everytime.

The Lost World gets my vote as Spielberg's career low point.

Hmmm, maybe he should stay away from movies with World in the title....
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post #170 of 434
5/27/08 at 6:01pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein
but there
seems to be a unified consensus among older fans that the new
Star Wars movies generally sucked.

This is nonsense. I'm not a younger fan. I saw the Star Wars in 77 when I was 11. The only Star Wars film that for me would come close to sucking would be Jedi.

Doug
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post #171 of 434
5/27/08 at 6:09pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickER
I am just getting up to speed in this thread. I have not seen Indy IV yet. But one question. Is it better than Howard the Duck? yea, im talkin to you Ron!

Also hated the lame ending to Spielberg's War of the Worlds. About as good as that B movie Damnation Alley. Horrid.

Hope to see Indy next week.

I'm sorry whats wrong with the ending of War of the Worlds?

Doug
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post #172 of 434
5/27/08 at 6:39pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou Sytsma
Hmmm, maybe he should stay away from movies with World in the title....

Lou, that's really funny considering that one of the Indy 4 scripts was titled Indiana Jones and the Destroyer of Worlds
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post #173 of 434
5/27/08 at 6:46pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
If that were the case why did Speed Racer die?

...

There is a reason that this movie has a B- user rating on Yahoo. People are really enjoying it.
1) Because NOBODY WANTED TO SEE IT. The marketing failed. Look at the SR thread. The people that did see it really, REALLY enjoyed it. But very few people even gave it a shot. So it's bombing and its failure helps to PROVE my point.

2) B- is hardly "really enjoying it". I think Wild Hogs got a B- or better. EDIT: Correct. Wild Hogs got a B. Great company. Both ToD and TLC got B+'s and Raiders got an A- (seriously, an A-??? Yahoo is worthless)
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post #174 of 434
5/27/08 at 7:00pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Mayer
1) Because NOBODY WANTED TO SEE IT. The marketing failed. Look at the SR thread. The people that did see it really, REALLY enjoyed it. But very few people even gave it a shot. So it's bombing and its failure helps to PROVE my point.

2) B- is hardly "really enjoying it". I think Wild Hogs got a B- or better. EDIT: Correct. Wild Hogs got a B. Great company. Both ToD and TLC got B+'s and Raiders got an A- (seriously, an A-??? Yahoo is worthless)

Speed Racer got trashed by the critics which is part of the reason it didn't do well. Indy on the other hand is doing fairly well with critics. Obviously people loved Wild Hogs too. It made $253 million dollars.

Well All I can says is again, movies don't make $300 million with out repeat viewings. And every audience I've seen it with seems to be enjoying the hell out of it.

Doug
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post #175 of 434
5/27/08 at 7:50pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Will
What's wrong with the last line? Isn't straight from the book? Just don't understand the criticism about the ending of WOTW. Did anyone read the book, it's the same ending. Why is the ending good enough for a classic book but not a Spielberg movie?
It was a lousy ending for a movie. It was anti-climatic and felt deus ex machina. There was no setup for it, it didn't derive from the characters' struggles. It was just a poor ending. (though I agree with the others: the beginning of the movie is great. The sidetrack into Tim Robbin's paranoia not so much.)

As for the book: I've not read it. But if it had the same abruptness, I'd probably dislike it as well. This is a case where the movie should not have been faithful to the book, as it made for bad cinema.
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post #176 of 434
5/27/08 at 7:59pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

It's probably the most famous ending in sci-fi. If Spielberg had dropped it, there would have been hell to pay. I figured the "bad ending" referred to the Cruise character finding his family, not the cold virus. To me, this is like saying, "They should have changed it so Rhett lived happily ever after with Scarlett."
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post #177 of 434
5/27/08 at 8:10pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
It was a lousy ending for a movie. It was anti-climatic and felt deus ex machina. There was no setup for it, it didn't derive from the characters' struggles. It was just a poor ending. (though I agree with the others: the beginning of the movie is great. The sidetrack into Tim Robbin's paranoia not so much.)

As for the book: I've not read it. But if it had the same abruptness, I'd probably dislike it as well. This is a case where the movie should not have been faithful to the book, as it made for bad cinema.

The book ends exactly as the movie does. The Martians die because of exposure to viruses on Earth that their systems can't deal with.

Wells was making a point that events are often completely out of the control of humans in spite of the fact that we think we are the masters of the world. That point is hammered home in the film. It takes place at street level. We only know what little information the characters in the film get. It's chaos and we feel disconnected from the rest of the world. This is the whole point of the story and of the movie.

This is a classic ground breaking science fiction story, and changing the ending would be silly. The ending is the whole point of the story. It would be like changing the ending of Dr. Strangelove or Planet of the Apes.


Doug
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post #178 of 434
5/27/08 at 8:32pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg_S_H
It's probably the most famous ending in sci-fi. If Spielberg had dropped it, there would have been hell to pay. I figured the "bad ending" referred to the Cruise character finding his family, not the cold virus. To me, this is like saying, "They should have changed it so Rhett lived happily ever after with Scarlett."
Exactly. Some books you can change extensively. War of the Worlds is not one of them. Even the faimly ending is thematically contiguous with the book; my problem was not that the ex-wife made it, but that the entire extended family and the son we saw walk INTO A WALL OF FIRE made it as well. In the one untouched block in all of Boston, no less. But I just skip that scene and the rest is pretty much a perfect movie for me. Ray shouldn't solve the entire invasion. In real wars, the common man NEVER solves the entire crisis. Victory on the scale he's dealing with is getting to his destination safe and keeping his daughter safe. He accomplished that, as a direct result of his own struggles.
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post #179 of 434
5/27/08 at 8:33pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
but there
seems to be a unified consensus among older fans that the new
Star Wars movies generally sucked.

Except for episode III which, I thought, was generally well recieved by the fans.

Quote:
War of the Worlds. No doubt Spielberg's darkest moment in his
very distinguished career. Don't know how that can be argued.

I'm curious as to why you feel so strongly about this film. It's not perfect, but personally, I don't have too many problems with it. I'm with the majority here in saying The Lost World is the weakest. And I can easilly give reasons why. A very smug and simplistic message of Environmentalists = good, Capitalists = Eeevvviiilllll. That shot of Malcolm's group on the hill watching Ludlow's team round up the dinosaurs with the "horrified" looks on their faces makes me want to throw something at the screen. Dumb characters: Julianne Moore's character especially, an experienced outdoors person who does things that anyone who has ever camped out in their backyard knows not to do. Vince Vaughn's character causing sabotage that ends up getting people killed with no repercussions to the character. I could go on.
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post #180 of 434
5/27/08 at 8:39pm

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt
Exactly. Some books you can change extensively. War of the Worlds is not one of them. Even the faimly ending is thematically contiguous with the book; my problem was not that the ex-wife made it, but that the entire extended family and the son we saw walk INTO A WALL OF FIRE made it as well. In the one untouched block in all of Boston, no less.

I think the cost to Ray should have been his son's life, but it didn't ruin it for me.
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