*** Official Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull Discussion Thread - Page 5

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Good point on the threatening Elsa- I had forgot about that. The rest didn't seem vicious to me, or at least no more so than the dartgun bit. A lot of the "worst" stuff in TLC was played for comedy which robbed it of any edge- Indy machine-gunning the guards when he first finds his dad was used as a punchline as was Indy taking out six or whatever guards with one pistol shot. The lack of gun violence in Kingdom is notable though I wonder if it's born out of the same motivations as the infamous gun replacement from ET. I hope not.

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Well, I agree most of the violence in TLC is cartoony compared to what came before, but what little there was in KotCS was PG. And unfortunately, I do think it comes from those same impulses of the creators. A kinder, softer Indy, because they knew kids would be going to see his adventures. That's speculation of course, but SS has definitely shown a tendency to back away from violence in his "fun" films.

It's interesting to see that the man most responsible for the PG-13 (and all that brought), is content to push PG-13 into PG territory

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

It may also be that you can get away with less violence in a pg-13 movie these days as the MPAA becomes more and more politically correct. Did you know that you can't even show a gun in a G rated movie anymore. And showing smoking will get you an automatic PG-13.

Doug

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Well, this was his only "fun" film since what? The Lost World? And that was pretty violent.

Indiana Jones is also a different man. He's fought in World War II. I bet he's seen more men die there than in all three previous movies combined. He might be softer in terms of shooting his gun a lot but he's still rough.

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

I just think it's hypocritical to show Indy killing the guy with the dart, shooting the RPG, etc and then try and say "oh, but he never uses a gun". I guess Spielberg/Lucas would probably explain that away by guns being more readily available to kids then RPGs or blowdarts but it still doesn't sit well with me.


Oh absolutely. I also think that may be kind of why Spielberg's direction is kind of lackluster (for Spielberg anyway) in TLC and KotCS. I think his sensibilities are very much toward pushing the edge a bit in otherwise PG/PG-13 material but he took such criticism in '84 that he seems almost too conservative now, like he's having to second guess all of his instincts.

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Regarding the ending: The Aliens, through Oxley tells the group that they are greatful for restoring the skull to its rightful place and that they will grant any wish that they want (remember Indy saying that "whoever returns the skull to the city temple will be given control over its power" from the trailer). Spalko says that she wants to know everything the aliens know. They grant her her wish, but her feeble human mind can't handle all that advanced knowledge, and her brain explodes due to information overload (Indy tells her "Be careful what you wish for" earlier in the film).

I've seen Crystal Skull twice, and I must say I enjoyed it, though there are definitely flaws in the script and pacing. I would rank it third behind Raiders and Last Crusade and above Temple of Doom.

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I really don't get the War of the Worlds bit. It was an excellent movie. It was actually perfect, except the very last line of course.

Also I don't think that Indy 4 is as bad a failure as the Prequels are. I find it a lot better than those. At least in Indy 4 people act!

Indy 4, like all the other movies needs a second viewing for a judgment. I'm waiting to see it again on BD.

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Wow. Thats harsh. Clearly there is no accounting for taste.

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Here's why ToD is #2 for me, and why it's significantly superior to KotCS.

Indiana Jones. I think Ford is spectacular in it. He's very comfortable with the character, and he still has a very strong edge. While the film itself has issues, his performance doesn't. And as MikeRS pointed out (and I agree), these films live and die by the character of Indiana Jones. ToD has him at his finest. He's at his strongest, his funniest, his most ruthless (except for the truck chase in Raiders), and his most moral

And I enjoyed Indy in IV as well, more often than not. It saved a weak script and fairly uneven direction. The film was strongest when Harrison was center stage, especially when he was working with Mutt. When it wavered away from it, it lost a bit of focus. I really enjoyed the film from doomtown until the capture at the graveyard. That was the most solid Indy material. His scenes with Broadbent were especially good.

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

This won't work for some (I'm looking at you Ron ) but I guarantee a 2nd viewing will go down better for many. It helped me a lot.

After 1st viewing I was just sort of in shock seeing Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show) in an Indy movie. I think the biggest problem a lot of fans are having is just the differentness of it. It's 20 years later real-world and Indy-world and this movie is always going to be the 4th Indy that came 2 decades later. You can't always go home.

My wife said this is a softer Indy and she liked him when he was tougher.

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Little over the top there, Ron. Lucas didn't ruin his reputation with the prequels, not even close. Episode III was a great Star Wars film(third in the saga behind ANH and ESB) and Episodes I and II weren't nearly as bad as some overly dramatic people make them out to be. Also, Spielberg didn't ruin his reputation either with War of the Worlds. It's certainly not his best film, but up to the part in Tim Robbins' basement I thought it was excellent. If you want to talk about bad Spielberg movies let's point out The Lost World and A.I., not War of the Worlds.

About the only thing I will agree with you on is that Indy IV was terrible and should not have been made. Bad script, uninspired acting and very flat action sequences don't make for a good film.

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I would say that this statement is over the top as well.

Doug

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I think that's a bit of an overraction. But movies are subjective to each their own. But the reaction I think to this Indy is alot like yours and others reactions to the Star Wars films, I found those entertaining as I did Indy. I think the problem happens to these sequals where a great deal of Time passes and the Producers and Directors put out a film that doesn't match what your vision of what it should look like given the length of time you waited for it. It becomes dislike, then utter Hatred and vitriol. None of the SW films deserved it, nor does Indy. It's an OK sequel that's not the Equal of the Classic Raiders of the Lost Ark,as were Temple of Doom and Last Crusade.

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I think there are some people for whom nothing Lucas did with the prequels would have satisfied them. However as the box office shows the vast majority of people loved episodes 1 - 3. It seems the vast majority of people are enjoying KotCS as well. Its already made almost $300 million in 4 days.

Doug

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

I'm 100% right there with you Ron.
With everything.
The more I think about how bad KotCS is, it just makes me mad.

I guess the only other franchise movie(making a comeback) to look forward to is Star Trek.

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

I'm going to go see it today in the afternoon for a matinee with my Mum. I'm going to look at the film as just another adventure for Indiana Jones. Hell, I have tons of the books, comics (I have a complete collection of the 34 issue Marvel series but hardly any of the 1990's Dark Horse), video games (Fate of Atlantis kicks ass) and even the film posters.
So, the first three movies are more based upon the 1930's serials where-as this one is more on the 1950's B movie. Figure World War II took a toll on him as others said but of course he's had dozens of adventures throughout his entire life. Of course I'd've loved Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis on the silver screen. It would've been great for Indy (by the way, correct is "Indy" and HIGHLY incorrect is "Indie") to have an adventure in 1942 on celluloid or on another media.
Yes, there's a huge gap in the timeframe from the series in the 1980's, which take place in 1935, 1936 and 1938 respectively compared to this taking place in 1957. Yes, each film is about a CENTRAL character and not a group unlike "Star Whores" (reference to a show if anyone can get it). Each film depicts Jones on a different quest. Each film is SUPPOSED to be different. That what I enjoy about Indiana Jones more compared to Star Wars. Pissed me the hell off when LucasArts prioritised STAR WARS: The Force Unleashed compared to the next 3D Indiana Jones video game.
So, I expect to have fun and have a good time watching this. Don't take the Indiana Jones films too literally people. These movies are meant to be had a good time watching them. And shouldn't be overanalysed by those snooty snoots.

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

As Ham Salad said in Hardware Wars....
"Relax kid....it's only a movie."

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Deserve's got nothing to do with it

No. Opening weekend is about how many people wanted to SEE the film. You don't get your money back when a movie disappoints you. Box office only shows how many people SEE a movie, not how many people like a movie. That said, I'd love to keep PT discussion in that thread. It never fails to derail a reasonable conversation.

Hope you enjoy it, Ray. I agree, a film about Jones' exploits during the war (or right after) would be great. Reading some hack's novelization of said adventure is less appealing to me. But the concept is great for the imagination, and I'm glad the film threw it out.

For those who are seeing this film 3 times to determine if they like it, feel free to check the Speed Racer thread. It may not have the same viewership this film does, but it's batting average is considerably higher. Not much ambivalence from paying audiences. If you've seen Indy, give it a chance. You might kick yourself in the fall if you don't.

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Listen, I wasn't trying to be over dramatic of over-the-top.

Most disagree with me which I accept, and one so far has
agreed with me 100% which I didn't expect.

I think the final three Star Wars films were shameful. They
were so overloaded with CGI, horrible acting (Jake Lloyd and
Hayden Christensen) and actors that had no real value of being
in the film (Samuel L. Jackson) other than the fact that they
were fans.

Perhaps it''s true that a long time passed since the original
three films that I grew up adoring --- and perhaps it doesn't meet
my vision of what I expected after all these years --- but there
seems to be a unified consensus among older fans that the new
Star Wars movies generally sucked.

War of the Worlds. No doubt Spielberg's darkest moment in his
very distinguished career. Don't know how that can be argued.

As far as Indiana Jones is concerned, there is an art to making
these movies successfully that was totally ignored with this new
sequel. I am truly disappointed that after approx. 15 years of
trying to get the best script written that this was the garbage they
came up with. I was bored!


Douglas, the movie is making this kind of money because of its
brand recognition. Doesn't mean everyone going into that theater
is walking out a satisfied customer.

I truly respect the opinions of those that loved these films. I am just
here to voice an opinion that I knew would not be popular. I appreciate
the fact that you guys have been respectful in return.

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Ummm, didn't you give Attack of the Clones a five out of five star review just before it came out?

I can respect that opinions can change over the years, but perfect to awful is kinda drastic.

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I loved it. Close enough to the book for me, though I'm still waiting for the definitive Victorian-era version. I don't want to argue with you at all, but I was never able to comprehend the harsh criticism for the film. Then again, I liked the prequels and love Attack of the Clones.

I haven't seen many Spielberg movies in the last ten or fifteen years, but the worst thing I've seen him do is the Lost World. That was just a terrible movie. Look there if you want to see action set pieces that went nowhere, like the overblown trailer scene. Also, "Daddy, I want to go in the high hide!" So, they go in the high hide, basically nothing happens, and they come back down. And then all 80 pounds of her kicks a raptor and sends it flying.

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Absolutely. The Lost World makes War of the Worlds look like Citizen Kane.

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Mark,

I did only because it was so so much of a relief over watching
The Phantom Menace, which I couldn't believe was a
Star Wars movie to begin with.

However, once I saw how disappointing Revenge of the Sith
was (second to Phantom Menace), I just collectively put them all
together as being pretty bad films. Let's just say that I enjoyed
Clone Wars the first viewing but have no desire to ever watch
those films ever again.

Re: Interesting new Indiana Jones 4 news

Ron, that's a truly absurd and very unfounded statement. It's your forum and you're free to say what you want, but saying something like that is going to cause A LOT of backlash over a topic that doesn't need to be rehashed(especially in an Indiana Jones thread).

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But it inevitably will though, won't it Brent?

While I don't share Ron's view that KotCS was an abomination on film, I wasn't thrilled with it. There were too many moments where Ford is not the center of attention, too many "aww shucks" dialogue moments, and far too much time is spent having Indy argue with Marion and Mutt about family matters. It's almost as if that was put in there specifically so that little kids could joke with their parents after the movie about it; "Hey mommy, we sound like that, we're so cute..."

Cutesy is fine and has it's place, but that place is nowhere near an Indiana Jones movie. Witty? Yes. Self deprecating? Absolutely. Cute, family-based dialogue and fuzzy, cuddly monkeys rendering the main villain(ess) thwarted? Insulting.

-S-

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I disagree completely. In rewatching the trilogy, I just LOVE the fonts used in Raiders and Crusade. The big INDIANA JONES logo behind Willie in Doom seemed out of place to me. When I saw the old logo and the original fonts in Skull, I was quite pleased.

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Not even close. I'd say his darkest period was pretty much everything between Empire of the Sun and Jurassic Park (yes, even Last Crusade). I do think War of the Worlds falls apart in the end but that first hour or so is some damn fine filmmaking.

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You mean like the monkey that was featured prominently in Raiders? Or the whole father-son bickering in Last Crusade?


What was more distracting to me was that the title in Temple of Doom was partially blocked out by Willie Scott.

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And he died a well-suited death. Talk getting a two-fer, it was a plot point and a cause for celebration on my part. Also, I wouldn't consider the bickering dialogue in LC to be at all cutesy. The movie was set up from the beginning to give you the impression that Indy and his father had a strained relationship. The bickering may have had a comedic element to it, but I took it as if there were two grown men who were finally getting to speak to each other for the fist time in twenty five years. Aside from that, Indy's relationship with his father was one of the driving themes of the movie. Perhaps it's the filmmaker's fault that I didn't care at all about Mutt, but I can tell you this: if Shia's character had been in that last scene of Crusade instead of Connery's, I would have been happy to see him bleed out.

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The monkey was a Nazi. And got wasted on-screen. That's old-school.