A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

I choose this film to be my BD of the week, next week. Hot dam I like George C. Scott as a general. His Patton is almost as good as his General Turgeson bit...and there's good ole Karl Malden. He's a fine General too.

Robert are you implying that some DNR has been applied. I must admit I didn't understand all the term you used....like the "Red" and "Dalsa". You lost me there.

Well, it sounds like the film was reincarnated as good data.

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

I'm not sure how to respond to these comments. In some ways it is good news, but at the same time I'm disappointed that the film has been "scrubbed."

Although it is a different situation this is somewhat analogous to my recent theater going experiences. In Moore, Oklahoma there is a beautiful new theater with a brilliant sound system. To my ear, it is the best I've heard in the state and the best I've heard in years. It also has a wonderful digital projection system. It will be awesome for Wall-E later in the summer, but for movies originated on film I still prefer even mediocre film projection. Not that digital is bad. That is what we use in our home systems after all and it is quite nice, but it is not the same as projected film and that is one of the reasons I'll still go out to see films. I'm just perplexed as to why I have to choose between great sound and a more film like image.

And now I'm perplexed by Patton. Why can't we have the benefits of modern HD discs without sacrificing the look and feel of film? So I'm a bit disappointed. I'll still enjoy what will be the best presentation of this film that I've had the opportunity to see, but there'll be that nagging sensation that it could have been better or to me more authentic.

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Red and Dalsa are two HD cameras that are starting to be used by the film industry. Red being, I believe the first production ready 4k camera.

doug

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Rachael, both Dalsa and Red are wonderful digital cinema cameras. The Red One has a 4K imaging sensor. The Epic that Mr. Harris referenced is an upcoming model that will have a 5K sensor.

RED / Index

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Thanks for clearing me up 'bout the digital cameras guys!

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Is it at all possible that with the way the film was photographed the grain was minimal to begin with? Maybe I'm a little naive on this, but in most of the 65mm-originating films I've seen on film, I noticed a very clear image with very little grain (at least to my eyes a couple of years ago; I now wear glasses). Patton wasn't one of them, but the recent reprints I saw of other Fox films from around the same period (The Sound of Music, Doctor Doolittle, Hello Dolly) seemed almost like looking out a window. Though they are different films shot and stored under different conditions.

How is the detail compared to other Blu-Rays of 65mm films you've seen, like 2001?

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

i wonder how a grain heavy film such as saving private ryan will look on blu-ray. i hope they wont abply any dnr on that one.

as for patton, i wont get it any time soon on br as i'm quite happy with the dvd. besides, you can't get every new release. then there is the note that a studio once again got their "make everything clean and slick" method out of the box doesn't convince me in getting it. they should finally stop doing that!!!

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

The grain should be finer in appearance that a 35mm film, but it should still be there. Also if enough DNR is used the image will start to lose high frequency detail along with grain. The whole thing starts to take on a plastic (best way I can describe it) like look.

Doug

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Thanks yet again. This is what I was afraid of after looking at the screenshots in the blu-ray.com review.

Sad really. We finally have a a home video format that can do the movies justice and retain much of the cinematic experience even on larger screens, and they throw it all out the window.

If people want the movies to 'pop' (what does this mean anyway?) they should go to the IMAX 3D viewings.

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Yes if I didn't say it clearly I was trying to indicate that the grain would APPEAR to be finer because of the lower magnification. I don't know how apparent that would be on a reduction to 35mm, though I imagine that it would look less grainy than a standard 35mm to 35mm release print.

I've only seen the standard resolution versions, but Lowry seem to have done a very good job in this regard with the early Bond films. Dr. No in particular, I thought, looks fantastic.

Of course it helps when you have a DP of the caliber of Ted Moore providing a really solid, well exposed negative to start with.

Doug

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Seufz...
(Also, data as a medium can look like anything (film, video...). Data is neutral. Scanners, projectors, algorithms... they are not so neutral (depends). And data has limits defined by the technical specs of the data. If they don't match the source data distorts the source. So data can not be neutral as well. Oh, the complexity... )

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

I'm sorry but I think these complaints specious. Totally subjective and probably no way to prove. Could comparison screenshots be provided? I've heard this argument before and can't see for my own eyes what they mean.

I think it more like the complaints of analog/vinyl vs. digital/cd. I think the former a dinosaur and good riddance. something of a backhanded compliment in my view.

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

You can see comparisons of the BD to the most recent DVD here:

Patton - Blu-ray George C. Scott

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Robert Harris's complaints "specious"? You're talking about the man who saved films like LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, SPARTACUS, VERTIGO, REAR WINDOW, THE GODFATHER and others from extinction. If anybody should know what "film" is supposed to look like, it's him.

You should do a little research before you throw around comments like this.

Vincent

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

You think it's "specious" to ask that a disc actually look like the film it's made from? Mr. Harris is dead on with his complaint, and I feel very sorry that studios are doing this sort of thing (and even more sorry that ignorant internet reviewers are going to tell everyone the transfer looks so gorgeous because of the absence of grain). Here's an audio analogy for you, since you brought up analog vs. digital: Suppose you have an analog source that happens to have tape hiss, and you transfer it to digital. You despise tape hiss, so you roll off the highs to get rid of the hiss. You now have a "clean", hiss-free digital transfer that also happens to be missing high frequencies that were present in the source. So you're telling me you'd be happy with this?

Edit: I just read the Blu-Ray.com review, and the reviewer whines quite a bit about tape hiss that was present in the source. I've no doubt he would have been happy to have the highs rolled off to get rid of it.

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

A real shame in what these studios are doing.

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Well, I will have to pick this up regardless, because this is my second favorite movie of all time, right behind "The Godfather" and just in front of "Lawrence of Arabia." I actually LIKE the screenshots I've seen on blu-ray.com, and, of course, nearly all the reviews have been outstanding with the only complaints rightly coming from Mr. Harris and from dvdreview.com in regards to the "scrubbed away grain." I'm just excited to hear how sharp and defined the image is, considering how soft the 2-disc Cinema Classics DVD is.

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Why is it that only Lowry/DTS can remove or minimize grain without removing high frequencies? Or do studios just go too far with their own DNR (which is probably it)?

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Except when it came to "Citizen Kane".

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

If I remember correctly, didn't someone from Lowry say that they made a mistake and removed too much grain from Citizen Kane?

EDIT: RAH answered my question.

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

To be fair, the algorithm used in Citizen Kane was an early version. One would hope the technology has improved in 8 years.

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Of course it has which is why I attached a smilie to my sarcastic comment.





Crawdaddy

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

RAH,
I was just kidding with my Kane reference, but my smilie wasn't enough to convey that.

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Not to jump the gun, but one has to serious wonder just how bad something like Godfather will be DNR'd when it comes to BD. Paramount has quite the track record for DNR too.