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I just got my PB-12 Plus today and...

post #1 of 13
5/27/08 at 7:29pm
Thread Starter 
I'm all hooked up so as I bought it not only for movies but also for music, I thought I would try some music DVD's and music CD's (after setting as per manual including using the SPL meter). I played the first 2 songs from "In The Flesh" and the bass was pretty outstanding. Then I tried "Hell Freezes Over" and the start of Hotel California just doesn't do for me. Instead of the drums being punchy they seem boomy much like a $200 sub would sound. My old Athena P400 was much more punchier but did not sustain the low frequencies like the SVS. I've set my new sub in the exact same place as my old one (up against a wall). The ports in the back do not seem to be moving much air for say a bass drum, but it does for bas being sustained.
I also tried some CD's and again the bass line on "One Headlight" does not sound as good as my old Athena sub.
My amp is an HK AVR 7200 and I have Athena Speakers all the way around.
The subsonic filter is set to 20 HZ with no ports blocked,I've set my amps trim to +3db.
Could I have something possibly set up wrong or is this the normal sound for this sub. I know a lot of members think very highly of SVs so I hope someone has a suggestion.
Thanks
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post #2 of 13
5/27/08 at 8:11pm

Re: I just got my PB-12 Plus today and...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuaneHangar
I'm all hooked up so as I bought it not only for movies but also for music, I thought I would try some music DVD's and music CD's (after setting as per manual including using the SPL meter). I played the first 2 songs from "In The Flesh" and the bass was pretty outstanding. Then I tried "Hell Freezes Over" and the start of Hotel California just doesn't do for me. Instead of the drums being punchy they seem boomy much like a $200 sub would sound. My old Athena P400 was much more punchier but did not sustain the low frequencies like the SVS. I've set my new sub in the exact same place as my old one (up against a wall). The ports in the back do not seem to be moving much air for say a bass drum, but it does for bas being sustained.
I also tried some CD's and again the bass line on "One Headlight" does not sound as good as my old Athena sub.
My amp is an HK AVR 7200 and I have Athena Speakers all the way around.
The subsonic filter is set to 20 HZ with no ports blocked,I've set my amps trim to +3db.
Could I have something possibly set up wrong or is this the normal sound for this sub. I know a lot of members think very highly of SVs so I hope someone has a suggestion.
Thanks

I don't use mine for music, but I would think your levels are too high. You may want to reduce the output a bit more using the gain control on the back. I'm also not familiar with the HK AVR's. What DSP mode [if any] are you using? You might want to start with whatever the 7200's equivalent to "pure direct" is.

I can tell you this, you won't be dissapointed with the SVS when it is properly calibrated and fed good source material for movies.

Congrats on your sub. Hopefully, someone else can provide better advice for your specific problem.

John
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post #3 of 13
5/28/08 at 5:36am

Re: I just got my PB-12 Plus today and...

Plot your sub's frequency response using a Radio Shack SPL meter and a test tone CD. Even though you put it in the same spot as your original sub, it does sound like you have some hot spots in your room. With the flatter response of your new sub, room issues are now more evident.

The SPL meter is about $40 and the rest of the required equipment is free. Generate test tones to match the frequencies of PEQ. This is the software that I used to flatten the response of my subs. They had a nasty hump in the response at 55hz. So when I set the levels, they were really boomy but lacked any low bass. This method helped me dial in my subs and BFD to give me a flat response from 80hz to around 17hz.

-Robert
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post #4 of 13
5/28/08 at 1:14pm

Re: I just got my PB-12 Plus today and...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J
Plot your sub's frequency response using a Radio Shack SPL meter and a test tone CD. Even though you put it in the same spot as your original sub, it does sound like you have some hot spots in your room. With the flatter response of your new sub, room issues are now more evident.

The SPL meter is about $40 and the rest of the required equipment is free. Generate test tones to match the frequencies of PEQ. This is the software that I used to flatten the response of my subs. They had a nasty hump in the response at 55hz. So when I set the levels, they were really boomy but lacked any low bass. This method helped me dial in my subs and BFD to give me a flat response from 80hz to around 17hz.

-Robert

Robert;

Great answer

By PEQ do you mean Parametric Equalizer? My sub doesn't have one built in; Where do you get free software for this? Also, what do you mean by BFD?

John
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post #5 of 13
5/28/08 at 3:00pm

Re: I just got my PB-12 Plus today and...

PEQ is a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet that simulates a parametric equalizer, the Behringer Feedback Destroyer to be specific. Just follow the link I gave you for the free download. You can find tone generators at dozens of sites. Just create .wav files of sine waves at the specific frequencies of the spreadsheet. Once the room is measured and data is entered into the spreadsheet, the appropriate correction values are added and a graph is produced. You can then use the simulated BFD to change the simulated reponse graph.

And HTF's own Gomer is the author of the spreadsheet.

-Robert
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post #6 of 13
5/28/08 at 3:28pm

Re: I just got my PB-12 Plus today and...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J
PEQ is a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet that simulates a parametric equalizer, the Behringer Feedback Destroyer to be specific. Just follow the link I gave you for the free download. You can find tone generators at dozens of sites. Just create .wav files of sine waves at the specific frequencies of the spreadsheet. Once the room is measured and data is entered into the spreadsheet, the appropriate correction values are added and a graph is produced. You can then use the simulated BFD to change the simulated reponse graph.

And HTF's own Gomer is the author of the spreadsheet.

-Robert

Got it. Wow. I will take me awhile to figure this out, but thanks for the link. Tony, thanks for taking the time to create something like this.

John
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post #7 of 13
5/28/08 at 4:03pm

Re: I just got my PB-12 Plus today and...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J
PEQ is a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet that simulates a parametric equalizer, the Behringer Feedback Destroyer to be specific. Just follow the link I gave you for the free download. You can find tone generators at dozens of sites. Just create .wav files of sine waves at the specific frequencies of the spreadsheet. Once the room is measured and data is entered into the spreadsheet, the appropriate correction values are added and a graph is produced. You can then use the simulated BFD to change the simulated reponse graph.

And HTF's own Gomer is the author of the spreadsheet.

-Robert

Robert. I don't want to take up too much of your time, but wanted to make sure I understand how to use this tool. Are you saying I need to create .wav files [already downloaded a tone generator] for all of the frequencies listed under the BDF tab of the spreadsheet and then use the "Input FRD File Data" button to import them into the spreadsheet? Once this is complete, I would use the "Output FRD Correction" button to plot a correction graph. These values could then be entered into the PEQ I'm hoping my new Onkyo 805 will incorporate? Also, I don't see anywhere in the spreadsheet to enter room measurements.

As I said, I know you have better things to do than tutor me on this, but any help is appreciated.

John
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post #8 of 13
5/29/08 at 5:57am

Re: I just got my PB-12 Plus today and...

Create the .wav files and burn them to a CD. Each tone needs to be about 5 sec in duration. I name the files so that they are in reverse order. Track 1 = highest tone.

Disconnect all of your other speakers and play the CD through your system with only the sub working. Set up the meter on a tripod so that it is head high in your favorite seat. Angle it up at 45 degrees. Don't move it until the test is over.

I play a tone in the 50hz region and set the volume so I get a reading of 80db on the SPL meter. Then start the CD over at track 1. Write down the reading on the meter. Listen to track 2. Write down the reading on the meter. Repeat until you have done this with all of the tracks. During dips in the response, I had to repeat tracks to get a good reading and sometimes even change the range setting on the meter (but the meter stayed in the same spot).

Now that you have all of the levels for each frequency written down, enter that data into the PEQ. I just typed it in. Check the box that applies the correction values to the meter. Now you can view the response graph. If it is not flat, then you can "play" with the simulated BFD and see what one can do for you.

-Robert
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post #9 of 13
5/29/08 at 6:17am

Re: I just got my PB-12 Plus today and...

Thanks Robert. Sounds like I would ned to purchase an actual BFD to realize any actual corrections in freq response. This tool is designed to calibrate that unit. Correct?

John
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post #10 of 13
5/29/08 at 9:00am

Re: I just got my PB-12 Plus today and...

No. Elemental Designs has the EQ.2 for $100. It's a 2 band analog PEQ. Just use the 1st two EQ bands of the software. If you can get a good response, then that is all you need. The BFD runs about $50 more but you get 12 bands of EQ. The downside is the learning curve.

On the other hand, you can use Room EQ Wizard (google it). It is another free software package but it analyzes in real time. A laptop, quality external sound card and calibrated mic are preferred. But it will connect to the BFD via a MIDI interface and you can make adjustments in real time. No simulations here.

The spreadsheet/SPL meter is the least expensive measurement method. After measuring, you may find that you have a flat response and don't need an EQ. Or you can flatten your response by moving the sub to another location in the room. I use sub drivers with very high inductance. It's a byproduct of having high excursion. I require an EQ to tame the inductance hump.

-Robert
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post #11 of 13
5/29/08 at 9:43am

Re: I just got my PB-12 Plus today and...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J
No. Elemental Designs has the EQ.2 for $100. It's a 2 band analog PEQ. Just use the 1st two EQ bands of the software. If you can get a good response, then that is all you need. The BFD runs about $50 more but you get 12 bands of EQ. The downside is the learning curve.

On the other hand, you can use Room EQ Wizard (google it). It is another free software package but it analyzes in real time. A laptop, quality external sound card and calibrated mic are preferred. But it will connect to the BFD via a MIDI interface and you can make adjustments in real time. No simulations here.

The spreadsheet/SPL meter is the least expensive measurement method. After measuring, you may find that you have a flat response and don't need an EQ. Or you can flatten your response by moving the sub to another location in the room. I use sub drivers with very high inductance. It's a byproduct of having high excursion. I require an EQ to tame the inductance hump.

-Robert

Got it. You've been extremely helpful and I have learned a lot. My new AVR should be here tomorrow and then I can see where I stand.

Thanks!
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post #12 of 13
6/2/08 at 9:05am

Re: I just got my PB-12 Plus today and...

If you want to plot the FR with sine waves and a spreadsheet, please contact SVS Tech Support; I'll provide you with the latest version we've created, including spreadsheet with correction factors, a link to a freeware test tone generator, and detailed guidance on how to use the onboard PEQ (if you model has that feature).

When you get the 805, just run Audyssey MultEQ XT and it will equalize your entire system (speakers and subwoofer) with considerably more refinement and accuracy than you could ever achieve using a single-band PEQ. The 805 will eliminate any need for you to manually plot the FR of the subwoofer. I can give you set-up tips on the 805 and Audyssey, so contact me in Tech Support for that too.

The SVS and the Athena have considerably different frequency response; the Athena will emphasize mid/upper bass which may initially sound appealing on certain sound tracks, but is less accurate and ultimately more fatiguing than the SVS bass.

A good subwoofer should sound like an extension of the main speakers, and not a separate source of noticeable/obvious bass in the room. The subwoofer should blend seamlessly with the mains and never draw attention to itself, unless the source material intentionally has overblown bass.
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post #13 of 13
6/20/08 at 1:48am

Re: I just got my PB-12 Plus today and...

Save yourself some time and get you a Velodyne SMS-1 and let it calibrate your sub for you. I got mine off eBay for $400 "nib" from a dealer with warranty. At first I thought is was a waste of money but once I got it set up correctly I would not give it up for all the money in the world (Joke).

Shannon

SVS PB12+2



Velodyne SMS-1 is the little black box thing in the middle of the rack on top of my Sony receiver that I'm using as a preamp.

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