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Wow...Did GoodTimes Really Screw This One Up...

post #1 of 17
5/19/08 at 3:12pm
Thread Starter 
I caved and bought the GoodTimes version of Universal's NIGHTHAWKS online because it kept the restored Rolling Stones "Brown Sugar" and the other "I'm A Man" track that the widescreen second Universal disc didn't -- and those two tracks, as everyone knows, MAKES that film...

But I have to tell ya...my G-d, is this a HORRENDOUS pan and scan transfer...some scenes are so noisy and snowy, I can't make out what's happening onscreen...I have read that this may be a transfer direct from the VHS tape to DVD, but whatever the case may be, I've never seen such a horrendous video presentation except for, maybe, HBO/TriStar's THE HITCHER...and THAT was pretty bad, too...

NIGHTHAWK's Dolby Digital Mono track is advertised as 1.0 mono on the back of the GoodTimes release -- but it's actually 2.0 mono that collapses to the center channel if Pro Logic II is engaged; the audio is perhaps slightly better than the video, but it too is dated and harsh. What a pity Universal didn't give this little cult gem a full Special Edition treatment with 5.1 surround and a new digital transfer...
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post #2 of 17
5/20/08 at 6:13am

Re: Wow...Did GoodTimes Really Screw This One Up...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Copeland
I caved and bought the GoodTimes version of Universal's NIGHTHAWKS online because it kept the restored Rolling Stones "Brown Sugar" and the other "I'm A Man" track that the widescreen second Universal disc didn't -- and those two tracks, as everyone knows, MAKES that film...

But I have to tell ya...my G-d, is this a HORRENDOUS pan and scan transfer...some scenes are so noisy and snowy, I can't make out what's happening onscreen...I have read that this may be a transfer direct from the VHS tape to DVD, but whatever the case may be, I've never seen such a horrendous video presentation except for, maybe, HBO/TriStar's THE HITCHER...and THAT was pretty bad, too...

NIGHTHAWK's Dolby Digital Mono track is advertised as 1.0 mono on the back of the GoodTimes release -- but it's actually 2.0 mono that collapses to the center channel if Pro Logic II is engaged; the audio is perhaps slightly better than the video, but it too is dated and harsh. What a pity Universal didn't give this little cult gem a full Special Edition treatment with 5.1 surround and a new digital transfer...

If it makes you feel any better, Bobby, there a few other tunes, in addition to "Brown Sugar" and "I'm a Man," on the Goodtimes release that were "rescored" on the Universal disc. You can do a comparison by scanning the end credits of each disc.
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post #3 of 17
5/20/08 at 10:31am
Thread Starter 

Re: Wow...Did GoodTimes Really Screw This One Up...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Hertzberg
If it makes you feel any better, Bobby, there a few other tunes, in addition to "Brown Sugar" and "I'm a Man," on the Goodtimes release that were "rescored" on the Universal disc. You can do a comparison by scanning the end credits of each disc.

Hey Jon!

Thanks for the info...and so there were even MORE tracks that were rescored on the Universal cut? My G-d...aside from the horrendous pan and scan transfer which is loaded with noise, snow and artifacts, it's amazing that there's even more missing from Universal's release; it's almost like we're forced to keep the Goodtimes disc...

Any word if Universal plans on re releasing this again on standard def or high def in the future?
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post #4 of 17
5/20/08 at 11:20am

Re: Wow...Did GoodTimes Really Screw This One Up...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Copeland
Hey Jon!

Thanks for the info...and so there were even MORE tracks that were rescored on the Universal cut? My G-d...aside from the horrendous pan and scan transfer which is loaded with noise, snow and artifacts, it's amazing that there's even more missing from Universal's release; it's almost like we're forced to keep the Goodtimes disc...

Any word if Universal plans on re releasing this again on standard def or high def in the future?

Since this title was never a big performer for Uni despite the presence of Sylvester Stallone and Rutger Hauer, I'm not sure we'll see an improved edition, at least as far as the music is concerned. Universal corrected many of the soundtrack issues plaguing its catalog in the last several years on DVD (see The Thing, Fast Times at Ridgemont High, Slap Shot, Sixteen Candles, etc.). Even though the widescreen reissue of Nighthawks came right around this time, Universal did not make the same corrections. It seems as if that train has left the station. My guess is that the fee for the Rolling Stones song is quite prohibitive or that the band does not want to re-license it for use in the film. As for the other tunes, I can't imagine that they are all that expensive, but it's all just speculation.
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post #5 of 17
5/20/08 at 7:22pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Wow...Did GoodTimes Really Screw This One Up...

Since this title was never a big performer for Uni despite the presence of Sylvester Stallone and Rutger Hauer, I'm not sure we'll see an improved edition, at least as far as the music is concerned.

This should be one of those titles they consider for a reminting to give the legion of fans this film has the right score, video transfer and audio...

Universal corrected many of the soundtrack issues plaguing its catalog in the last several years on DVD (see The Thing, Fast Times at Ridgemont High, Slap Shot, Sixteen Candles, etc.).

That's interesting....I didn't know Carpenter's The Thing had soundtrack issues....I have the original release of the Collector's Edition DVD; what soundtrack problems were there on that title?

Even though the widescreen reissue of Nighthawks came right around this time, Universal did not make the same corrections. It seems as if that train has left the station. My guess is that the fee for the Rolling Stones song is quite prohibitive or that the band does not want to re-license it for use in the film. As for the other tunes, I can't imagine that they are all that expensive, but it's all just speculation.

Interesting and logical...this would definitely be a title I would pine for in terms of a rerelease and reminting...

But I really just wanted to share my thoughts on the horrendous video quality of the Goodtimes full screen disc (not to mention the mono soundtrack) and see if anyone else who may own this disc finds the same thing in terms of a "snowy" video noise, grain and an unstable, unwatchable picture for most of the running time...made even worse upscaled to "1080p" from my Blu ray player...
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post #6 of 17
5/21/08 at 6:35am

Re: Wow...Did GoodTimes Really Screw This One Up...

Quote:
That's interesting....I didn't know Carpenter's The Thing had soundtrack issues....I have the original release of the Collector's Edition DVD; what soundtrack problems were there on that title?

I believe that Stevie Wonder's "Superstition" was replaced on pre-DVD home video releases of the film. I forget what replaced it though.
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post #7 of 17
5/21/08 at 8:23pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Wow...Did GoodTimes Really Screw This One Up...

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillG
I believe that Stevie Wonder's "Superstition" was replaced on pre-DVD home video releases of the film. I forget what replaced it though.

Oh, right -- the part when Bennings screams to Nauls to turn his radio down because he was "shot today" -- I remember the Stevie Wonder track playing from his boom box...thanks, Will!
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post #8 of 17
5/22/08 at 4:50am

Re: Wow...Did GoodTimes Really Screw This One Up...

I have the Goodtimes version, and while it's a typical non-restored transfer of that time period, I could never call it "unwatchable". In fact, I just watched it recently upconverted on my Oppo 983 (an amazing machine, BTW), zoomed to "Full" and was surprised at how decent it looked. Since it's open matte (NOT Pan & Scanned), the zoomed composition looked just fine at 1:78. As for the mono soundtrack, I believe that's the way it was originally released. And the movie never looked that great in the theaters, either. I'm happy with my copy!
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post #9 of 17
5/22/08 at 11:06am
Thread Starter 

Re: Wow...Did GoodTimes Really Screw This One Up...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Kontos
I have the Goodtimes version, and while it's a typical non-restored transfer of that time period, I could never call it "unwatchable". In fact, I just watched it recently upconverted on my Oppo 983 (an amazing machine, BTW), zoomed to "Full" and was surprised at how decent it looked. Since it's open matte (NOT Pan & Scanned), the zoomed composition looked just fine at 1:78. As for the mono soundtrack, I believe that's the way it was originally released. And the movie never looked that great in the theaters, either. I'm happy with my copy!

Wow...I found the exact opposite with the Goodtimes release of this title...from the very opening credits the letters appear to be blotchy and bleeding in the red characters...from there, the opening shot on my display, with Stallone in the streets undercover as the nurse, the image is snowy, grainy, dirty and indeed borders on unwatchable -- moving on from that part, the part where Williams and Stallone are raiding the drug apartment exhibits a horrible "fuzzyness" and noise that really riddles the screen...I was about to ask you why anyone would zoom a pan and scan transfer when you said it was open matte -- the rear of my copy says it's a full screen presentation.

At any rate, the version I am watching indeed looks horrendous; yes, the mono track is what was originally released alongside this title theatrically if I'm not mistaken, but Universal can still give the cult following of this gem a little special edition package with remixed 5.1 surround and a digital new transfer, if not on high def (who knows now what is going to happen with Universal now that HD DVD is dead and they were an HD DVD only commodity)...

Do you play your mono tracks out of only your center channel?
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post #10 of 17
5/22/08 at 12:01pm

Re: Wow...Did GoodTimes Really Screw This One Up...

So how could Goodtimes put out a DVD with the original music but Universal can't? This movie was made in 1981 - were there not provisions in licensing agreements for home video by then? I don't understand why the music would have to be re-licensed by Universal but not Goodtimes.
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post #11 of 17
5/22/08 at 12:10pm

Re: Wow...Did GoodTimes Really Screw This One Up...

On a side note, what replaced "Superstition" in previous video releases of "The Thing"? I was watching this on HD DVD the other night and given the overasll tone and theme of the film, anthing else would be wretched.
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post #12 of 17
5/22/08 at 1:28pm

Re: Wow...Did GoodTimes Really Screw This One Up...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob McCraw
So how could Goodtimes put out a DVD with the original music but Universal can't? This movie was made in 1981 - were there not provisions in licensing agreements for home video by then? I don't understand why the music would have to be re-licensed by Universal but not Goodtimes.

It's likely that the music was accidently included on the first Goodtimes release. In fact, a subsequent Goodtimes release features the altered soundtrack.

Quote:
On a side note, what replaced "Superstition" in previous video releases of "The Thing"? I was watching this on HD DVD the other night and given the overasll tone and theme of the film, anthing else would be wretched.

In most cases, the music was replaced with generic, uncredited music, perhaps played by in-house MCA Records musicians. The music was made to sound very similar to the music that originally played in the scene. Incidentally, the "rescored," home video versions of Blue Collar and Fast Times at Ridgemont High feature some of the same "replacement" music.
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post #13 of 17
5/22/08 at 1:43pm

Re: Wow...Did GoodTimes Really Screw This One Up...

I wasn't aware that Fast Times... was affected by music rights issues. Are any of the various DVD releases affected, or is it only previous VHS/LD releases?
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post #14 of 17
5/22/08 at 4:08pm

Re: Wow...Did GoodTimes Really Screw This One Up...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cafink
I wasn't aware that Fast Times... was affected by music rights issues. Are any of the various DVD releases affected, or is it only previous VHS/LD releases?
I'm pretty sure both the VHS and LD had replaced music but the DVD releases are correct.
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post #15 of 17
5/22/08 at 7:43pm

Re: Wow...Did GoodTimes Really Screw This One Up...

Alot of Universal titles suffered from this home video version thing on the home video/LD days.

Paramount, Vestron too were notorious for changing songs from the film, even some 80's film suffered!

Here are some off the top of my head (not sure if the DVD, if released, was corrected on some of these)

HEROES
ELECTRIC HORSEMAN(NOT corrected)
ROLLERCOASTER
JAWS (corrected)
SCORCHY
BLOODY MAMA
CRIME AND PASSION
SLAUGHTERS BIG RIP OFF
HELL UP IN HARLEM
BLACK WINDMILL
BLUE COLLAR
PARADISE ALLEY
ALL NIGHT LONG (NOT corrected)
POSSESSION OF JOEL DELANY
CALIFORNIA DREAMING
DILLINGER (1973) (corrected)
GORP
JOYRIDE (SEMI-corrected)
JOHNNY DANGEROUSLY (corrected)
FRENCH POSTCARDS(NOT corrected)
BABY ITS YOU (NOT corrected)
DAISY MILLER
DESPERATLY SEEKING SUSAN
MASK (corrected)
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post #16 of 17
5/23/08 at 6:43am

Re: Wow...Did GoodTimes Really Screw This One Up...

Quote:
Originally Posted by walter o
Alot of Universal titles suffered from this home video version thing on the home video/LD days.

Paramount, Vestron too were notorious for changing songs from the film, even some 80's film suffered!

Here are some off the top of my head (not sure if the DVD, if released, was corrected on some of these)

HEROES
ELECTRIC HORSEMAN(NOT corrected)
ROLLERCOASTER
JAWS (corrected)
SCORCHY
BLOODY MAMA
CRIME AND PASSION
SLAUGHTERS BIG RIP OFF
HELL UP IN HARLEM
BLACK WINDMILL
BLUE COLLAR
PARADISE ALLEY
ALL NIGHT LONG (NOT corrected)
POSSESSION OF JOEL DELANY
CALIFORNIA DREAMING
DILLINGER (1973) (corrected)
GORP
JOYRIDE (SEMI-corrected)
JOHNNY DANGEROUSLY (corrected)
FRENCH POSTCARDS(NOT corrected)
BABY ITS YOU (NOT corrected)
DAISY MILLER
DESPERATLY SEEKING SUSAN
MASK (corrected)

Others:
Medium Cool
The President's Analyst (corrected on DVD)
Valley Girl
The Last American Virgin
The Wild Life
The Party Animal
Private School (corrected on DVD?)
Trading Places
Somewhere in Time
Slap Shot (corrected)
Return of the Living Dead
Weird Science (corrected)
Sixteen Candles (corrected)
Resurrection
Love at First Bite
More American Graffiti
Cheech and Chong's Next Movie
Where the Buffalo Roam
The Great Waldo Pepper

I believe these two blaxploitation classics were also rescored:
Truck Turner
Black Caesar
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post #17 of 17
5/23/08 at 8:35pm

Re: Wow...Did GoodTimes Really Screw This One Up...

I believe the first VHS edition of BUFFALO (with PURPLE HAZE) and SLAP SHOT (with RIGHT BACK WHERE WE STARTED FROM) was the normal version
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