More Research Asserts that Blu Ray Adoption Isn't Apt to Surge - Page 6

Originally Posted by Man-Fai Wong

I think Crawdaddy meant 40-45% penetration in the long run (like after another 5-7 years, if not more), not near term. Presumably, by then, HDTV itself -- though not necessarily 1080i/p HD -- would have >=90% penetration.

Anyway, I think that's a reasonable prediction/expectation, if the industry doesn't mess up. And I'd be happy w/ that myself.

_Man_

Originally Posted by David Wilkins

I've been reading through these five pages with interest. It's good that we have these discussions, and anything I might say shouldn't be taken as criticism of the thread. Much of what's being said here, harkens back to the very beginning of hi-def software. We're simply not arguing red vs. blue anymore.

Perhaps I'm very dim, but I still don't understand all the hand-wringing. All the basic factors are well known and understood. Any format of hi-def software, nearly by definition, isn't going to have the massive appeal that SD DVD had. Most likely, SD came along at a particular time in the PC and home video market, that might never be duplicated. I've said it many times before: BD doesn't have to have that same massive level of acceptance in order to be a successful format...and it never will.

Why is everybody foaming at the mouth, for tidal waves of mom and pop purchases? Why can't anybody relate the here and now, to a similar stage of past formats? And that includes the perhaps once in a lifetime success story of SD DVD. I don't see a massive, do or die crisis. The software people, even though times are slow, don't seem to be hurling themselves off roofs, or doing much price cutting. The CE people aren't in a panic either. Which helps raise the question, of why there's such high anxiety and hand-wringing in these forums. Seems to me, that if things were that dire we would see aggressive price cutting all the way around, both software and hardware. I simply don't think they're all that displeased. And if they aren't, we're not in danger of certain format death.

As I've said before, what's with the frenetic cries: $15 software, NOW! Blu-ray in every mom and pop home, NOW!

Software that sells for $35 never enters my mind, because I've almost never come close to paying that much, and I have a respectable library. If the only place you can shop, sells BD for that price...well, what can I say? If the software people were that concerned about scaring away mom and pop impulse purchases, the prices WOULD be lower. Again, it's the failed perspective that I don't understand. This is not a unique or troubling cycle. It's the way things work.

The same sense of doom has been hanging like a shroud in these forums, since day one. Is it the state of the world? Is it politics? Is it the war? Is this the only place people like us can go, loose our anxieties and actually get a response?

I'm just a knuckle-head thinking out loud.

Originally Posted by Douglas Monce

The only difference is that your region 1 disc won't play in your region 2 player because one is NTSC and the other is PAL. They aren't compatible even beyond the region coding.

Originally Posted by Rachael B

That's not it at all Douglas. Our domestic LD's from Pioneer were not imports. They were made for Estados Unidos. That's how we feed off the Japanese market. It wasn't any trouble to create U.S. editions along with the Japanes versions. Look at the subtitle selection on some of these Sony BD's. It's over 10 choices on some. Sony may just create one version for many films in the future, regardless of where they're actually pressed....?

It's highly doubtful you'll have to import Japanese market BD's in this, hopefully, worst case scenario. When the public eventually gets spoil't by HD football and TV series in HD, they'll drift to the Blu side, "if the price is right"....they might be lucky winners.

Originally Posted by Jari K

Most (if not almost all by now) TV-sets and DVD/HD*-players at least in Europe are *PAL/NTSC* (both natively). So we don´t really have any issues with NTSC here. Even the ultra-cheap DVD-players are NTSC, let alone the "trusted brands". Same with TV-sets, projectors, receivers (my latest Yamaha v1800 for example), etc.

That´s why it´s so easy for the Europeans to import everything from e.g. America etc.

You can also find "region free"-fix to most players out there (meaning at least in Europe). Not sure about the Blu-ray-players, though (I guess those are only coming etc).

The "lack of PAL" is only a problem in America and probably in other "NTSC only"-areas (I´m not sure about e.g. Japan, Asia, etc).

PAL is of course our only *broadcast television system* in Europe (well, some countries might have some selected HD-channels), but with the A/V equipments we have both PAL/NTSC included.



(*=Meaning the SD DVD-side of the player)

Originally Posted by Douglas Monce

I was seriously thinking about importing Capricorn One till I found out it had forced subtitles in Italian or something.

Originally Posted by Adam Gregorich

They actually sold suprisingly well, outselling a lot of more contemporary titles.

Originally Posted by Danny_N

It doesn't have forced subs. There's nothing wrong with the UK release. Excellent transfer. See review here: DVD Talk Review: Capricorn One (Blu-ray)

Originally Posted by Adam Gregorich

If I had to "guess" I would say Robin Hood sold a little over 5800 copies. Casablance did a little better, and that doesn't take into account that it was on the 5 free HD DVD list (with player purchase) for a long time, so a lot of people (me included) took it as a freebie which doesn't count toward sales numbers. They each sold more than "newer" titles like Lethal Weapon 1 (both formats combined!) Lethal Weapon 2 (both formats combined!), Music and Lyrics (both formats combined!) Road Warrior, 16 Blocks, License to Wed, (either format, not combined).

Note all sales numbers were from title release through 2007.

Originally Posted by Man-Fai Wong

RE: a few of the WB classics, I thought they had already (unofficially?) said that they planned on releasing some of those in the near term, ie. w/in a year, no? Maybe it was just unofficial-yet-reasonably-reliable rumor, but I'm sure at least The Bits mentioned that Casablanca and Robin Hood were coming soon enough. Didn't the HTF coverage of the big Warner event a couple months ago mention something about this also? I forget now.

I definitely remember getting excited about Casablanca and Robin Hood coming to BD soon enough.

_Man_

Originally Posted by Douglas Monce

While that maybe the norm in Europe its not in the U.S. I don't know of any SD televisions sold here that can display both NTSC and Pal.

Originally Posted by Douglas Monce

Probably the reason that it is more prevalent in Europe is that Pal has more scan lines and its easier to display an NTSC signal on it. I believe down converting Pal to NTSC is somewhat more complicated, both because of the scan lines and the overlaid chroma information in the NTSC system.

Originally Posted by Douglas Monce

Of course any HDTV should be able to display either system.

Originally Posted by Danny_N

It doesn't have forced subs.

Originally Posted by Douglas Monce

I hadn't heard that. That is great news from my point of view. Hopefully Warners will release them on blu-ray soon and follow them with Singing in the Rain, Citizen Kane and other greats from the golden age.

And PLEASE UNIVERSAL...HITCHCOCK!!!!

Doug

Originally Posted by MattH.

Originally Posted by Douglas Monce

I don't relish the idea of having to import discs from Japan.

Doug

Originally Posted by Brandon Conway

Well, Warner, for example, is trying to do as many "World Wide" discs as possible. For one, they never use region coding, and two, they are combining disc images. For example, on many WB titles, if you change the firmware menu language to Japanese, the disc will load with Japanese menus and audio/subtitle options. They simply put the Japanese disc image on the same disc as the US disc image.

So technically speaking, the only difference between the US release and the Japanese release is the packaging.

Originally Posted by Brandon Conway

Well, Warner, for example, is trying to do as many "World Wide" discs as possible. For one, they never use region coding, and two, they are combining disc images. For example, on many WB titles, if you change the firmware menu language to Japanese, the disc will load with Japanese menus and audio/subtitle options. They simply put the Japanese disc image on the same disc as the US disc image.

So technically speaking, the only difference between the US release and the Japanese release is the packaging.

Originally Posted by Mark Butler

I can confirm this. I rented I Am Legend last week. I have my default Menu language set to English on my PS3 (the majority of the Blu discs I have are from North America) and I was surprised when a completely English menu came up for a Japanese disc. I was frustrated because when I went to the Discs Subtitle section I couldn't find the Japanese subtitles option. It had completely different subtitles to choose from Than what was listed on the disc. I eventually figured out to change the PS3 to display Japanese menus as the default and low and behold it worked and their they were.

Originally Posted by Douglas Monce

That would only be true of Warner films where Warner is the distributor in that particular country. In some cases they don't distribute their own films in every country. For example a particular film made by Warner and distributed in the U.S. , Canada, Mexico and Japan by Warner, might be distributed by Universal in the U.K. and Germany.

So the world wide release is something of a fallacy, although they can clearly try and maximize the release by making one pressing fit as many countries as they distribute too as possible.

The other problem is censorship. The U.S. R rated cut of a particular film may not be allowed to be distributed in a particular country with out cutting. In that case a different version of the film and there for a different pressing of the disc would be needed. It is possible for a film to need a different cut of the film for as many as half of the countries it is distributed too.

In most middle eastern countries even a PG or G rated film would need additional cutting to be allowed to be shown or sold.

Also product placement maybe different from country to country as in the example of Die Another Day where in the U.S. cut Bond is shaving with a Norelco razor and the U.K. cut has him shaving with a Philips razor.

Doug

Originally Posted by Adam Gregorich

With three region codes and multiple countires in each you would quickly offend people for not giving them the content they want or giving them the content they don't want.

Originally Posted by Nick Graham

It was really disappointing to see Panasonic release the BD50 at such a high MSRP. I realize the dollar is weak and investors need to be coddled to, but I would think they would realize how potentially dangerous it is to the success of Blu overall to be asking $700 for a player at this stage in the game.