Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD) - Page 2

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

Please read also this thread:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...s-ma-bomb.html

You could ask (from the seller), that can you update the firmware *before* setting it up at home. Then again, since you don´t have HD-player yet, you don´t really have any issues with this "bomb". But in the future you might.


Note, that it probably makes some "noise" on its own. Try it out first without any additional fans.


Not sure what chip the 805 is using (not Reon, I believe), but at least TX-SR875 and TX-NR905 uses Reon-VX HQV-chip.


Yes, like Dave already said, with many A/V-receivers the receiver doesn´t upscale via HDMI (only via component, etc), so basically the DVD/HD-player or TV/projector does the upscaling. So IMO the upscaling via receiver is not *that* important after all, if you´ve some other quality products in the chain. It´s very nice to have of course, but there are other options.

Just remember, that don´t spend any money to expensive "upscaling DVD-players". If you need to get that new player, make sure it´s Blu-ray (which then plays your DVDs also and other formats - and is profile 2.0 - like PS3, Panasonic DMP-BD50 and new Sony).


Like I said earlier, 875 probably indeed have "better" upscaling, but it´s hard to say for sure (I mean you should compare the two receivers in the controlled environment, which is probably rarely possible). But at least "in paper".

But yes, I did the similar decision with Yamaha v1800 vs v3800 (there was that 400$ - or so, difference) recently. In this case, both have the e.g. same upscaling chip (ABT1010) and same "basic features"/channels/HDMI inputs. Both are HDMI 1.3, etc.

V3800 has slightly more (max) power (from the **press** specs: v1800 - 7 x 180W vs. v3800 7 x 200w) - not a deal-breaker for me and also USB, Internet radio and Ethernet - which are not worth of 400$ for me. Other additions (like "cinema dsp 3d", not sure what´s that), additional S-video in, etc is not something that I need. v3800 comes with two remotes, though.

The thing also is, that I have Macbook laptop and "AirPort Express" (wireless networking) and I have now "AirPort Express" also hooked up to my Yamaha v1800. I can play music wirelessly from my Macbook and have the audio coming from my receiver/speakers. I can also play internet-radio via my laptop. So, I don´t really need to spend extra 400$ for something that I can already do now (which I also did my old, non-HDMI receiver, btw).

Now perhaps I´m missing something (since "AirPort Express" only uses analog/optical digital audio stereo mini-jack), but the music from my laptop is mainly MP3s, so the quality for that purpose sounds just fine.


Like I said earlier, take all the forum-talk with that "grain of salt". Even the "pro reviewers" can make mistakes or focus too much on the things that doesn´t really concern you. They might rave about the quality of "upscaling" (or the lack of it), but it´s good to remember that "audio" is quite important also.. If you buy that quality Blu-ray-player later on, use that for upscaling. Pretty much "problem solved" (if you´re not happy with receiver´s upscaling).

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

Btw. Recent (June 2008, it says) "Home Theater" magazine (their home page here: Home Theater: Home Page - you can also find some of their reviews/info from there) has A/V-receiver comparison, which solely focuses on the "video" processing. It´s pretty good and informative (perhaps still slightly too brief for my taste etc) article.

While it doesn´t want to put these receivers in a strict order - or praise some and mock the other (wise move, IMO), you can see some interesting results.

E.g. Onkyo TX-SR875 "passes" almost every test (digital/analog) and the upscaling is "excellent" (it upscales also via HDMI, it seems). For this (around 1000$, I believe) price range, it does very good job with "video". It uses "Reon" chip (from "Silicon Optix") for upscaling ("flagship" chip seems to be "Realta" from "Silicon Optix", so "Reon" is one step down from that).

In any case, there were some differences with these receivers.

Of course it´s best to read the whole article (and then other reviews and such) to make that final decision (there´s e.g. no word on the "heat-issues" with these receivers). And: This test was for the "video" ONLY.

No word for the "audio"-side of these receivers, which probably should be the main thing when buying receiver. IMO, at least.

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

I wonder if the 805 would be noticeably better than say the cheap Yamaha RX-V663 as a preamp. Of course, the Yamaha doesn't come w/ Audessy setup -- but has Yamaha's own proprietary setup -- and only offers 2 HDMI inputs. But then, you'll have a bit more $$$ left to play w/ for the power amp though. And if you're on a tight budget, maybe you could even buy that power amp used right here on HTF. I see a couple good 5-channel units up for sale right now, ie. Parasound and Rotel. If I don't already have an (albeit aging) B&K 5-channel amp myself, I would probably spring for one of those two right now to go w/ the Yamaha -- well, I suppose I might've already bought the 805 by now, if I don't already have my old B&K.

_Man_

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

This shouldn´t be any problem. I actually read one recent article where they tested 3 set-up systems (YPAO - Yamaha/MCACC - Pioneer/Audyssey - Onkyo) and YPAO got the best results. Of course, one test and one article (you can hardly drew any huge conclusions), but my point is, that not always the "bigger is better" etc. I´m sure they all do a decent job, IF the environment (room size/shape, acoustics, etc) is good.

Like I also said earlier, not all "set-up"-systems are the same and equal with different models, so cheaper models might have "cheaper set-up" system. So e.g. "YPAO" in some (more) cheaper Yamaha-model is not the "same YPAO" as in the higher end Yamaha-models.

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

Well, if anyone wants the Onkyo 805, the new price slash down to ~$600 offered by Vanns (and matched by Amazon) should be very enticing now. I wonder if this is a signal that pricing of the 805 will start reflecting model-year-end discounts in anticipation of a new replacement model -- afterall, Onkyo did already start coming out w/ something new for the lower model(s).

Hmmm...

_Man_

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

"New models" are basically coming all the time. It´s just a matter of time with every brand. So basically you can "always wait" for something "better" (perhaps better, you´ll never truly know beforehand, of course). Welcome to the world of A/V.

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

Hello Man-Fai Wong,

I think at this particular time I would much rather have the 805 over the 663. I want more than 2 HDMI and 3 is my minimum requirement. It also does not meet my power requirements of 100 watts minum per channel. The 663 advertised rating is 95 watts per channel and it is more likely putting out 80 watts per channel. I also have a feeling that the comonent video may not be 100MHz rated, but I can not say for sure. And I agree with the statement that the surround features for YAPO will most likely not be the same as a higher end Yamaha. So I would be stuck with low power and so so performance for awhile, until I could afford to buy a nice power amp for it. I am willing to bet that my current 995 would run rings around the 663 with no problems. It is just a model to far down the line and I want to make sure that my next receiver is an upgrade. It is a good way to save money but it lacks in features and performance. Also an a side note that is a small thing actually, I hate the way that group of Yamaha's look with a pasion. And I am not sure what those Scene buttons are really there for but the entire face looks cheap and ugly, that's just my onest opion.

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

You really can not go on that spec alone as it can be affected by the way the company comes up with that rating. Some companies cheat and rate a power amp at 1KHz with one channel or all 5, 6 or 7 channels at 1KHz. Instead of rating the amplifiers at 20Hz - 20KHz all channels driven. You also need to look at dynamic output, power output at 8 Ohms, 4 Omhs and 2 Omhs if they have a rating. And I also consider how much power the reciever draws from the wall socket. Advertised wattage can be misleading sometimes if the company used little tricks to pad the numbers.

If I could I would go to a few retailers and buy a receiver within a week. But since I have to save for it, thats not going to happen. I hate waiting for a new receiver. But I am going to look at the Marantz receivers, mainly the 7002 and 8002.

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

I doubt the difference between 125 and 140 would be very noticable. And if it was, I don't think it would be a drastic difference.

As for price, Marantz receivers aren't discounted as deeply as some others until the new models start arriving. Then better deals are available on the previous years models from sites like ac4l.com. All of these different receivers each have their strengths and weaknesses which is what makes the decision so difficult.

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

Well, the decision was made for me.

The Pioneer 92 was on sale for $800 this week at Tweeter. While I was looking at the next tier up (Denon 3808, Pioneer 94, Onkyo 875/905), I couldn't turn down that deal. The 92 has all of the features I require, and almost all of those I wanted. Pioneer also kept having good reports for audio, with few problems. Set-up took some time, and I have yet to actually tweak anything. But the cables are plugged in, and I can start playing soon. Haven't set a AVR up in 10 years, so should be an adventure.

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

Glad to see someone around here can make a decision! Some of us seem to take for ever to make up our minds, myself included. $800 is a very good price. Lowest I saw when I was looking a couple of months ago from an authorized dealer was around $920. I hope you'll report back in a while with your opinion of what's good and what isn't (nothing's perfect). Until then, enjoy your new avr.

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

Great choice on the Pioneer, Chuck. I still have my Pioneer VSX-82 in the bedroom system, and it has never let me down. The audio capabilities of the Pioneers are just about equal to the Denon and Yamaha and only bested by the Marantz's. I think you'll find, like me, that the Pioneer's are a great mixture of audio and video capabilities. Not the best in both, but arguably the best mix of both features. The Stream Direct for music sounds incredible with good sources (as an unprocessed signal should). Have fun setting it up (advanced MCACC can be fun)!

Cheers,
Ryan

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

My room wasn't optimal on set-up with the MCACC. I'll be doing it again. but it went off without a hitch. I've only watched a bit of Kingdom of Heaven, and learned something irritating about the X360 (it appears it WON'T send DD5.1 over the HDMI, just video). The Pioneer sounds pretty smooth so far, although it's replacing a very competent Yamaha DSP-A1. I've heard good things about audio performance, which is the most important thing for me. As I said earlier, it rarely rated as high as some of the others, but it also had the fewest "detractors" of any of my options.

I'll keep everyone posted once I get to really play with it.

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

One of the things that I took into consideration when choosing receivers was this thread in another a/v site. It is basically an thread intitled "Does your receiver pass HDMI video unmodified?


Does your receiver pass HDMI video unmodified? - AVS Forum


Now in part of the thread it brings up that Yamaha does not pass video unmodified via HDMI. That It seems only Yamaha currently limit their HDMI inputs to levels 16-235, and that there receivers clip blacker than black and whiter than white. So basically if an HD title is authored with blacks deeper than 16 or whites higher than 135. That the receiver will clip those input levels. Maybe I am being to picky but one thing is for certain is that if a reciever clips those input levels, than you will not be able to use a blacker than black test pattern to calibrate your display. And that you would not be able to use a full range signals using a game console or pc without crushing blacks or whites. Maybe I am being to picky but I just want to get the highest performance I can get so in return I would be able to have the best picutre that my gear can provide.

While it says that the Sony STR-DA4300ES passes blacker than black. There are to many reasons not to want a Sony receiver, at least as far as I am concerned. I bought a Sony ES DVD player, Sony Blu-ray and a Sony HDTV and I have been very happy with them. But I have yet to hear a Sony recevier that I have ever been impressed with.

The Onkyo TX-SR805 is said to pass blacker than black as does the Pioneer VSX-92THX/94THX, Denon AVR-3808CI and the Marantz SR8002. Now it is speculated that some of the other top models for the same brands also pass blacker than black as well. But I guess that even though the Yamaha RX-V1800/V3800/HTR-6190 and RX-Z11 did not pass the RX-V661 did pass.

While I currently own a 10+ year old Yamaha and while it has performed very well. I have enough reason to not want to buy another one and the lower models with the scene buttons, I really hate the way the look and that most of them do not meet my power output requirement and also does not decode lossless dts & dolby.

The Yamaha's I was looking at seemed to have failed passing blacker than black. And that the Yamaha's seem to fall way short of there advertised power output. And I am not sold on there new room correction feature. And to be honest I never was big on Yamaha's DSP modes and never cared to use them. I always ended up watching movies without the specialized DSP modes. But other than that the receiver has worked out great and sounds good.

Yamaha 1800
Advertised Power
Sound & Vision Bench Test
Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 158/281 W (22/24.5 dBW)*
5 channels driven (8 ohms): 103 W (20.1 dBW)
7 channels driven (8 ohms): 55 W (17.4 dBW)

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/rec...-receiver.html

I am going to take a break from the constant research but would still love to get input. Maybe I am being to picky but I will end up with the best possible choice in my price range. The primary goal is to get a receiver with a max of $2,400 if possible. If not then the second goal is to get a receiver costing no more than $1,200. It really sucks being on a budget and there is a chance that I will be lucky to get the lower rung receiver, not that there is anything wrong with that.

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

Dave,

I really don't understand though. If your budget for this really tops out at $2.4K, why not consider the Integra 9.8 preamp to go w/ a used power amp? Seems like that's quite doable for <=$2.4K. Heck, if I have the $$$ for it, I'd probably jump at the Integra 9.8 myself too (to go w/ my B&K amp). But these days my $$$ must be spread pretty thin across numerous things, so my audio gear budget is extremely tight -- well, I guess I could sell a violin/viola or cello for the needed funds, but they are actually more valuable (in the long run) than this HT audio gear stuff. Actually, I'm thinking I should ease up on my own music lessons for the next (school) year to save some $$$. Cost of lessons do add up fast -- and I could easily buy an Integra 9.8 for the cost of ~6 months worth of weekly lessons, and it's not like I'm ever gonna be all that good at it as an adult beginner anyways...

_Man_

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

Yes, it´s good to read that thread, but it´s also good to read all the posts etc. This "clipping" is something, that isn´t really a problem with Blu-ray/DVD-releases. Perhaps there are some titles that are "mastered" differently etc (e.g. BD "Dirty Dancing" is mentioned), but generally this is one of those issues that you just have to take with that "grain of salt". There´s always *something*..

Sure, I fully agree that Yamaha made a mistake on this one and since others (at least most) more-or-less doesn´t do this "clipping", why Yamaha chose to do it? But still, it´s not that you´re really missing anything if you buy Yamaha (at least don´t let this be that "only reason" not to buy some models).

Here´s one good post from that thread (still, please read the whole thread):

**"I've spent many hours tweeking my settings on my Pioneer Kuro plasma (known for the Best Black's in the Biz) using the DVE disc through my PS3, and using my Toshiba HD A2 over the past month.

I ran both players direct to my PDP without the RX-V1800 in the loop
and even used the same HDMI port on my Kuro for all three devices
(and HDMI cable) so I had a good base to compare changes from without fluctuation.

Once I set my Black Levels (Brightness) and Contrast so that BTB was just barely visible (Direct to Display) for both players, I re-inserted my RX-V1800 back into the loop.

Absolutely no loss of detail could be observed, UNLESS the brightness was cranked up from my calibrated settings.

This leads me to believe, that even IF a movie was produced that had Blacker than Black information, it would never be seen (or crushed) on a properly calibrated display. Below 16 just isnt considered normal video levels for movies, period.

The only time an AVR user needs to be concerned is while calibrating their display, or if by chance they need to run a PC or game console via RGB. instead of YCbCr (IMHO)

If your primary video through your AVR is TV/DVD/BD or HD DVD,
the only time you need BTB displayed is during calibration of your display.
...so simply leave the AVR out of the loop until calibrations are complete.

Once your settings are dialed in, then you can send video through your AVR without concern.

If anyone is confused about how to set your black levels and using AVIA or DVE...just check this out:
How to Calibrate your HDTV with Avia/Digital Video Essentials - DVE

Here you get to the "Black Level" setting. This is one area that Many would argue the Digital Video Essentials has an advantage over the Avia disk. The DVE disk has test patterns that include "Blacker than Black" material and is an excellent way to set your black level no matter what type of display you may have. The third bar on the outsides of both left and right sets of three vertical "gray" level bars inside the white "I-beam" is supposed to be invisible at "Studio" video levels. On a Computer, video levels are normally set differently which might explain why you may see them on your display now. Depending on how your computer display is set up, you may see the three bars, two bars or maybe even one bar as a lighter shade of gray than the "black" background. You may want to temporarily set the contrast and brightness of your monitor until you can see them, just to see what we are talking about.

Using the DVE disk, you will need to adjust contrast until the third "blacker than black" bar dissolves completely into the background, but not more. The DVE disk gives you a "blacker than black" signal, or maybe better described as "below black" signal to work with. Some combinations of equipment will not even let you see it. Some DVD players give you choices of levels which may or may not effect your overall black level after you calibrate. What is "below black"? Well, "Studio" calibrated video levels define the upper and lower black and white levels differently than the digital levels of Computers. Computers use levels of 0-255, while "Studio" calibrated Video uses 16-235. Unlike Avia where you want to try to have the black signal more or less equal to the surrounding black, with DVE, you have some options. With a digital display, you will normally want to be sure to set the below black signla to a level just below visibility. With a CRT analog display you will certainly want to try adjusting using the different IRE level screens, since overall brightness levels may effect the black level.

I bet if anyone here spent some serious time in the Display Calibration section of AVS, Display Calibration - AVS Forum
they would have a better understanding of how Studio Levels for video (16-235) in movies are displayed and how BTB/WTW levels (Below 16, and above 235) are not as critical for normal use AFTER calibration."**


Well, pretty much they all do. "Advertised power output" probably often just lists the "highest" figures, when in real life the receiver is only using 2/3 of that "highest" figures or something. It´s not that you often even need that much power (even if you get very "powerful" receiver). There might be some "peeks" where you need more power (IF you´ve "large" speakers, you can really "turn the volume up", you´ve e.g. 7 speakers, etc), but generally probably no. I am no expert on these "power issues" (just thinking out loud), but I made similar "mistake" some years ago (I was looking "power this" and "power that", even when you only need "certain amount" of that power - I don´t have any special "HT-room", I have "small"-speakers and neighbors, stuff like that).


I hardly never use any DSP-modes (I want the "pure sound"). So I don´t really read the DSP-specs and stuff like that. What´s "room correction feature" (probably missed that)?


With this (more higher, IMO) price range, you should have plenty of options. IMO, it gets easier to pick that receiver with 1t$=> price range. You´ve enough HDMI inputs, enough power (IMO, at least), good features, good upscaling (varies, though), HDMI 1.3, etc. But yes, Onkyo might "get hot", Yamaha has some "clipping", XX-receiver doesn´t have "enough power" for everyone, etc etc. IMO; there´s always something. You probably can´t find that "perfect receiver". And - new models are coming all the time. Perhaps I also made a slight mistake and new Yamaha-models suddenly will be better (they probably fix the clipping, perhaps).. Who knows?

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

All very true, but some are more accurate than others. My H/K 435 (65 wpc) is noticably stronger and clearer than my Pioneer 1014 (110 wpc). H/K has had it's issues of late, but those boys do know how to design an amp. But both would be more than enough for most. Gary Altunian gave a glowing review of the 3800 in the latest addition of Widescreen Review (man, these guys move around). I knew about this BTB thing but video wasn't such a concern for me. My biggest complaint with the 3800 was that it used Burr-Brown dacs on the front two channels only. Probably not a real world issue but I just couldn't get passed it. Love my 6770 dvd player, though.

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

Like I said earlier, v1800 and v3800 are very similar, and I didn´t want to spend additional 400$ (or so) for these additional USB/ethernet/internet radio-features (and to get slightly more power).


Now you lost me Gene. What´s actually "Burr-Brown dacs on the front two channels only". Sorry!

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

Digital to Analog Converters. Burr-Brown (by Texas Instruments) are thought to be one of the better ones. Wolfson and Motorola are two more I'm familiar with (and maybe even better than Burr-Brown) but I'm sure there are others. Onkyo uses the Burr-Browns in the 805/875/905 but for all channels. Yamaha only uses them in the front two. The other channels must use something else. Again, probably not a big deal but sometimes I stress over the small things.

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

I have always wanted a true high end system or at least very close to high end. I have always wanted the best audio performance and video performance I could possible afford. I had started this goal in the mid 90's and it stoped after getting married. After that end I am now trying to restart from scratch as I had lost some key gear from that HT configuration.

This was the base system that I starting upgrading and the first peice of gear to be upgraded was a Denon preamp/tuner/surround processor. That was upgraded to a McItosh MX-130 which was one of the best a/v gear I have ever owned, I wished I still owned it.

HT back in 1996:




To be honest I did not look into the 9.8 as I just did not think about it. But I will check out that possibility. Since I have way to much time between now and purchase date. I am going to scrap the list I have currently have narrowed down the gear I am considering. I am now going to create a excel sheet with ever conceivable option and then I will start eliminating everything that does not meet my needs and goals.


I know that in todays world that there is no such thing as a prefect receiver, bluray player, dvd player, pc etc..... The days of bringing home the newest peice of gear and it working with everything else and there being 0 problems and 0 compatibility issues are over. In the old days before multi-channel surround sound when it was just plain old stereo. You would just buy something hook it up and it would ether have great audio performance or it wouldn't.


I would like to get something that would get as close as possible to what I had with the MX-130. The only reason I was able to get that was a friend let me use his credit card. My credit is really bad after my devorce so I do what I can to build the best HT that I can.


Here is my end goal for my HT which I feel is obtainable.
-Upgrade current Yamaha RX-V995 to a higher end receiver or pre/pro amp combination.
-Upgrade current Sony BDP-S300 to Panasonic BD30K or Denon DVD-2500CI
-Possible upgrade of Toshiba HD-A1 to a HD-A35 even though HD-DVD is close to disapearing.
-Upgrade current 720p native Sony Wega 50" HDTV (accepts 1080i). To a native 1080p / 24 fps 120Hz display with HDMI 1.3 input. I am leaning towards a Samsung, Sony or Mitsubishi display currently but this can change once I am ready to save for it. The ultimate upgrade of this display would mean getting moved into a larger place and getting a really nice 1080p HD projector. And maybe a high quality outboard scaler if one would indead boost video quality but it may not be necisary.
-Altec Lancing VOTT A-7 Speakers (Main Channels L&R) Currently Owned
-Klipsch Reference Series RC-64 center channel - MSRP $899* (Each)
-Klipsch Reference Series RF-82 floorstanding speakers (Rear Channels, 4 speakers) MSRP $998* (Pair)
-SVS PB13-Ultra Subwoofer MSRP $1,599 (Each)

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

I took delivery of the Onkyo TX-SR805 Friday afternoon. As others have pointed out, this one's heavier than what you might expect. About 55 pounds I think, and it appears to be built like a tank. It was a snap to set up. The back panel was logically laid out. The best I've seen in any AVR to date. Speaker connections were all at the bottom stretched out horizontally, instead of the common vertical design, which makes them hard to work with IMO. I had it setup and running within a couple of hours, and that included setting up the Wal-Mart Blu Ray player I bought.

Since this is my first Onkyo product, the OSD took a little getting used to, but not much. Once I figured this out, I was able to quickly assign and rename inputs to my liking and it was time for speaker calibration.

I didn't care for Audyssey. The results were OK, but compared to Yamaha's YPAO, I thought it a bit lacking in features and extremely slow.

The only Blu Ray disc I currently own is Stargate, starring the completely resistable Kurt Russell. I like this film despite Mr Russell's presence, but it's not that great of a HDM transfer. Still, the Onkyo easily ran rings around my previous receiver, the Yamaha RX-V2500. In all fairness, the Yamaha is not of the same generation as the Onkyo, so direct comparisons are not really relevant. Still, I think it's safe to say that the Onkyo would easily trounce anything Yamaha has to offer in the 805's price range. The 1800 and 3800 were also on my short list, and so far, I think I made the right choice.

While video quality is lacking, the Stargate Blu Ray disc does have an impressive DTS HD Hi Res audio track. I didn't hear any popping while listening, or while switching sources. I verified my firmware version to be 1.08, which I believe is current. DSP firmware versions were also up to date, so I doubt I will experience any DTS problems.

Remote:

I use a Pronto Pro, so I am generally not concerned with individual product remotes, but I really like the remote that comes with this unit. Yes, it is quite large, but like the AVR itself, it is very logically designed. I have never understood why people knock remotes for being large. I would rather a larger remote that is actually easy to use than a smaller one that isn't. Just me. This remote is completely backlit. Functions are arranged in predictable patterns, and buttons are large enough to be comfortably pressed. I could actually see keeping this remote in use, at least for awhile until I have time to program its functions into my Pronto Pro.

Tiny Concerns:

1. The unit does get hot, but I ran it for well over 4 hours today [at fairly high levels] without incident. I've heard that you are supposed to be able to check the units temp via a secret menu, but when I tried, I got a display that read "T=65, V=.001, Fan:---" These values varied slightly, but the temp of the unit was clearly well above 65 degrees, so I'm not sure what this display actually means.

2. This receiver takes an awfully long time to switch sources. I would say at least 5 seconds before you'll have picture and sound. Not a huge issue for me, but I've never seen it before in any other unit and you would think Onkyo could do better. I have read, however, that this is more of a problem with HDMI than anything else. I don't know since this is my first HDMI switching product.

Overall impression:

This is easily the most feature rich AVR I have ever owned. I'm a tweaker, but even I haven't made it through all of the modes and adjustments on this baby yet. Sound is awesome. Completely fills my room. I knew the video side would be lacking, and that is fine. My projector can better handle those duties anyway. The level of control and "tweakability" is astounding for something in this price range.

My Yamaha RX-V2500 fetched a good price. Combine that with the rock bottom $600.00 price for this unit, and it's almost as if I got the Onkyo free. Almost.

Of course the true test will be performance and reliability over time.

We shall see how it measures up.

Thanks for reading.

John

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

I keep reading about this heat concern with Onkyo's. I design electronics for automobiles and we run all our stuff in 105 degree C (220 degrees F) ambient temps. No problems. Now I'll admit, we do use automotive grade electronic components, but even the cheap radio shack parts are rated at +70 degree C temps which is like 158 degrees fahrenheit. How hot are these things getting? When we want to determine the robustness of a device we thermal shock it , meaning we quickly transition it back and forth between hot and cold temps. This will degrade the life of an electronic component much faster than just heat. Anyone actually have an Onkyo reciever that overheated or did some people wave their calibrated hands over the top of a couple of them and make a judgement that they run "too hot"?

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

Interesting information, and I bet the reading I got was actually the Celsius temperature [65]. Us Americans aren't used to seeing temp displayed that way. Based on my research, I was expecting to see both Celsius an Fahrenheit readings. I wonder if this can be changed. Anyway, there are numerous reports on the Internet of heat-related problems with the Onkyo models. The question is how much of this information is factual. I think you also raise a good point concerning the probable design of these units. Since they are expected to run hot, it would be foolish of Onkyo [and other manufacturers] not to design them accordingly.

John

Re: Advice on a New Receiver (TrueHD, DTS-HD)

I've always thought heat was the biggest enemy of electronics but I see your point about transition. That must be the reason why turning on and off components many times a day is discouraged. I"m presently not an Onkyo owner but I remember reading where one or two members were going to try a temperature test but don't remember seeing a follow-up. I think most are doing the hand test. I have at Fry's. Onkyo's are much hotter than other brands, even while idling. As John said, Onkyo must know about this. I'm only a member at this forum but occasionally I do read other forums and I don't recall anyone reporting what they thought was a heat related shut down. I think people are concerned about longevity because Onkyo's seem to run much hotter than other brands. Whether they run too hot is for a qualified engineer to say .