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A few words about...™ Before the Devil Knows You're Dead -- in Blu-Ray

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
Sidney Lumet is one of our greatest filmmakers.

And has been for over half a century.

Now at an age (he's 83), when most people might be retired and living on their laurels and royalties, Mr. Lumet is still adding to his wonderful catalog of work.

His catalog of work?

If his name isn't automatically ringing bells for you, try 12 Angry Men, The Fugitive Kind, Long Day's Journey into Night, Fail-Safe, The Deadly Affair, Murder on the Orient Express, Network, Dog Day Afternoon and The Verdict.

In his review of Before the Devil Knows You're Dead, Roger Ebert noted, "The Japanese name some of their artists Living Treasures. Sidney Lumet is one of ours. He has made more great pictures than most directors have made pictures.

Here he takes a story that is, after all, pretty straightforward, and tells it in an ingenious style we might call narrative interruptus. The brilliant debut screenplay by Kelly Masterson takes us up to a certain point, then flashes back to before that point, then catches us up again, then doubles back, so that it meticulously reconstructs how spectacularly and inevitably this perfect crime went wrong."

Before the Devil... was shot on Panavision gear in HD and was taken through the DI process to a 35mm printing negative. But unfortunately, and possibly because it wasn't a studio picture, the film found scant distribution after running the festival circuit.

To many potential home video viewers, this film will be an unknown, which is a pity, as the quality of Before the Devil... on every level, beginning with an incredible cast which moves this powerhouse of a film along rapidly, and ending with Image Entertainment's Blu-Ray disc is remarkable.

As an aside, the title comes from an Irish toast: "May you have food and raiment, a soft pillow for your head; may you be 40 years in heaven, before the devil knows you're dead."

Please do not permit the fact that it didn't receive an advertising program equal to the budget of a small state hold you back from picking this one up.

At 83, Mr. Lumet is running on all 12 cylinders. He has created a film that one could easily see coming from a brilliant 35 year-old filmmaker, fresh on the trail for new ideas. It seems to combine New York, Lumet grittiness with the dark minds of the Coen Brothers.

Before the Devil... is one of the best films released in 2007, and is Very Highly Recommended.

RAH

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post #2 of 26

Re: A few words about...™ Before the Devil Knows You're Dead -- in Blu-Ray

Guess I have another film to add to my collection. Your recommendations are taking a toll on my wallet
post #3 of 26

Re: A few words about...™ Before the Devil Knows You're Dead -- in Blu-Ray

Fantastic film, all around. What a nice surprise! Solid a/v quality with the exception of some blown out whites during exteriors. And my goodness, Ms. Tomei is aging like fine wine...
post #4 of 26

Re: A few words about...™ Before the Devil Knows You're Dead -- in Blu-Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix Martinez
Solid a/v quality with the exception of some blown out whites during exteriors.
The Blu-ray is sitting in my viewing pile, but I distinctly remember noticing something like that in the print I saw in the theater. So that may just be the source material.

Lumet has been a long-time proponent of digital, even though he never got much attention for it. His TV show 100 Centre Street on A&E (2001-2002) was shot entirely digitally, and Lumet said at the time it was the best filming experience he'd ever had.

As for Devil, I think it's Phillip Seymour Hoffman's best film work ever, superior even to Capote or to his Oscar-nominated role in Charlie Wilson's War. He's mastered the craft of acting through small gestures that don't look like acting. So you don't think he's doing all that much until he sneaks up on you and . . . pow!

M.
post #5 of 26

Re: A few words about...™ Before the Devil Knows You're Dead -- in Blu-Ray

I have this in my unwatched pile too.






Crawdaddy
post #6 of 26
Thread Starter 

Re: A few words about...™ Before the Devil Knows You're Dead -- in Blu-Ray

Shots that appear to be "blown out" would be purposeful.
post #7 of 26

Re: A few words about...™ Before the Devil Knows You're Dead -- in Blu-Ray

Ordered this blind after reading Roger Ebert's glowing review and watched the BD about a week ago. I do not watch/buy many modern movies but this film is excellent.
Anybody who liked No Country For Old Men will like this one as well.
post #8 of 26

Re: A few words about...™ Before the Devil Knows You're Dead -- in Blu-Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Reuben
...Lumet has been a long-time proponent of digital, even though he never got much attention for it. His TV show 100 Centre Street on A&E (2001-2002) was shot entirely digitally, and Lumet said at the time it was the best filming experience he'd ever had.

As for Devil, I think it's Phillip Seymour Hoffman's best film work ever, superior even to Capote or to his Oscar-nominated role in Charlie Wilson's War. He's mastered the craft of acting through small gestures that don't look like acting. So you don't think he's doing all that much until he sneaks up on you and . . . pow!

M.
The features include a wonderful interview with Lumet re: shooting in hi-def. Great stuff.

Hoffman is fantastic here. I've read some off-base criticism of Tomei indicating she doesn't have much to do but take her clothes off, but during Hoffman's monologue in the car, she gives a reaction that is truly haunting. So simple, and yet it's still imprinted in my mind. Just a look that says, "you know, now that I think about it, I don't know who the f*#k you are."

One of the best from '07, and nearly slipped under my radar.
post #9 of 26

Re: A few words about...™ Before the Devil Knows You're Dead -- in Blu-Ray

I had it on order on HD DVD, which was canceled then. Ordered it again now.
Thanks for the review, Robert. I had not realized Sidney Lumet being 83 years old already. Can't wait to see this.

Yes, it was Roger Ebert's review that first drew my attention to this film, which I haven't seen in the theater (Roger Ebert has given me so much valuable free advice during the past years, that I decided to buy almost all of his books, to duly pay for it).

My final decision to order this film was based on Michael Reuben's recommendation elsewhere. And I think Phillip Seymour Hoffman is one of the strongest actors we currently have.


Cees
post #10 of 26

Re: A few words about...™ Before the Devil Knows You're Dead -- in Blu-Ray

Hi, I certainly agree with you. Your advice is really very helpful for us.

Thanks a lot!
post #11 of 26

Re: A few words about...™ Before the Devil Knows You're Dead -- in Blu-Ray

I saw this in the theater and agree that it's one of the best things that came out last year. Just wanted to add my voice in support of it for now. The Blu-ray isn't a high priority at the moment but I would like to get it eventually. I too strongly reccomend at least a rental for those who haven't seen it.
post #12 of 26
post #13 of 26

Re: A few words about...™ Before the Devil Knows You're Dead -- in Blu-Ray

Excellent film indeed!
post #14 of 26

Re: A few words about...™ Before the Devil Knows You're Dead -- in Blu-Ray

Watched it again this weekend. The film packs even more of a wallop the second time.

I'd forgotten how much I liked Carter Burwell's score. It adds the perfect note of ominous inevitability to the whole affair.

M.
post #15 of 26

Re: A few words about...™ Before the Devil Knows You're Dead -- in Blu-Ray

I reviewed the DVD (http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...-you-dead.html) but havent picked up the BD. It's a very interesting movie filled with unlikeable characters! =)
post #16 of 26

Re: A few words about...™ Before the Devil Knows You're Dead -- in Blu-Ray

I thought this was a daring line in your review, Sam:

Quote:
It’s not going to be a film anyone really loves
I mean, I love it. I suspect some other people in this thread would share that sentiment.

As becomes immediately clear in the "How the Devil Got Made" featurette, Lumet grasped instantly that this wasn't a crime story so much as an intense family drama. Some reviewers compared it to Long Day's Journey into Night, which isn't inappropriate. On my second viewing, I was just amazed at how many layers of subtext are woven into every scene between family members -- a function, in large part, of casting actors with theater experience and going through the rehearsal process described in the featurette.

Lumet just gave every young filmmaker a textbook demonstration in how to use old-school techniques to make a film that feels as vital and contemporary as anything out there.

M.
post #17 of 26

Re: A few words about...™ Before the Devil Knows You're Dead -- in Blu-Ray

has anybody seen the region b version of this? from the UK?
reason I ask is, I live in region B - so the USA version is no good for me
post #18 of 26

Re: A few words about...™ Before the Devil Knows You're Dead -- in Blu-Ray

Quote:
I suspect some other people in this thread would share that sentiment.

I think you are taking that a bit out of context Michael. What I meant was that it's not the kind of film that resonates with the mass audience, that they can identify with and feel inspired by. These are desperate, unlikeable people who continue to make choices that send their bad situations into tragic tailspins. As a cautionary tale and as a finely crafted film I totally agree there is brilliance here. Certainly there are people who will love this film but it is not a film that I think will be _beloved_. Does that make sense?

Sam
post #19 of 26

Re: A few words about...™ Before the Devil Knows You're Dead -- in Blu-Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Posten
I think you are taking that a bit out of context Michael. What I meant was that it's not the kind of film that resonates with the mass audience, that they can identify with and feel inspired by. These are desperate, unlikeable people who continue to make choices that send their bad situations into tragic tailspins. As a cautionary tale and as a finely crafted film I totally agree there is brilliance here. Certainly there are people who will love this film but it is not a film that I think will be _beloved_. Does that make sense?
Certainly that explanation makes sense, Sam. But I don't think I could have taken your original quote "out of context", because you didn't supply the context until just now.

In any case, I disagree with your premise, because I think the "mass audience" is capable of accepting a much broader range of characters than they're generally given credit for by studio marketing types. In fact, your description -- "desperate, unlikeable people who continue to make choices that send their bad situations into tragic tailspins" -- would fit a lot of the protagonists of great drama and literature, from MacBeth to Madame Bovary to Tony Soprano (or even Daniel Plainview). It would also encompass much of the population of soap opera, which has never had any trouble with mass appeal.

Who's to say whether this film couldn't have had more of an audience with a wider release and better marketing? Hoffman's name counts for something these days; The Savages did OK, and none of the characters in that film were warm and fuzzy. (Admittedly, it had laughs.) And part of the briliance of Hoffman's performance is that, by the end of Devil, you actually feel for Andy, just a little, as everything begins to close in on him, because Hoffman gets you to understand how he came to be what he is.

No, it was never going to be a tentpole movie, and if by "beloved", you're talking Wizard of Oz affection, well, few movies attain that. But I think it could have found a solid audience, and maybe now on video it will. In sheer filmmaking skill, it's the equal of anything that was released last year (and yes I'm including No Country for Old Men).

M.
post #20 of 26

Re: A few words about...™ Before the Devil Knows You're Dead -- in Blu-Ray

I agree, but I was teetering between not really caring about and actively disliking both Andy and Hank.

I like a lot of anti-heros, I got a big kick out of Anton Chigur and Lewellen or however you spell em both from No Country which you cite. As Mr. Jackson notes "Personality goes a long way" and for all of Devil's other merits, I found the personality of these two lacking. I'd not even put them head to head against the depth of a character like Macbeth...
post #21 of 26

Re: A few words about...™ Before the Devil Knows You're Dead -- in Blu-Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Posten
I like a lot of anti-heros, I got a big kick out of Anton Chigur and Lewellen or however you spell em both from No Country which you cite. As Mr. Jackson notes "Personality goes a long way" and for all of Devil's other merits, I found the personality of these two lacking. I'd not even put them head to head against the depth of a character like Macbeth...
Hey, I was just taking your description, but now you're adding things.

Depth? Anti-heroism? Now you're talking tragedy, and I certainly agree that Devil isn't that.

If there's anyone in the film for an audience to end up liking, it's probably Albert Finney's character. The audience I saw it with gave out a little murmur of satisfaction when he pulled the stunt with the police car. Even the film's sad ending feels earned.

M.
post #22 of 26

Re: A few words about...™ Before the Devil Knows You're Dead -- in Blu-Ray

I agree. It seems horrific to root for vigilantism but it's gotta be a hard reaction to surrpress. That scene reminded me of the end to Se7en, tho again I didnt think it had as much impact because I really wasnt attached to the characters.
post #23 of 26

Re: A few words about...™ Before the Devil Knows You're Dead -- in Blu-Ray

You know what attached me most to those characters?

They're ordinary. Life-sized. They're people you might actually know, pass on the street, see in your workplace, maybe have a drink with. And just beneath the surface there's all this . . . stuff.

I think we encounter people like that every day, but usually we don't get to watch their worlds implode right in front of us.

M.
post #24 of 26

Re: A few words about...™ Before the Devil Knows You're Dead -- in Blu-Ray

can I get some help from those who own this BD .....

Earlier this month I picked up a PV copy from BBV's 2/25 sale and when playing it back noticed a green pixel pop up at the 1 minute 52 second mark before PSH says the line "Blame it on Rio"

I thought this might have just been due to some fingerprints/scratches on the disc so I brought it back and exchanged it. Picked up a copy with no marks on it and assumed all was fine, but when I went to give it a quick preview spin the other night, sure enough .......




I went back and picked up the copy I originally watched from the library and the same flaw was present (must have missed it the other times I viewed it)

post #25 of 26

Re: A few words about...™ Before the Devil Knows You're Dead -- in Blu-Ray

no need to confirm as others already have for me
I may have missed it my first viewing but cannot believe I have not seen mention of this flaw before especially from reviews.... I know I don't have the greatest of eyesight
post #26 of 26

Re: A few words about...™ Before the Devil Knows You're Dead -- in Blu-Ray

I would hazard the following guess: the movie was shot with HD digital cameras and not with regular film stock, IIRC. Perhaps the pixel glitch is in the source. I would liken it, in some ways, to when the lens of a camera gets splashed with something during a scene and they don't "clean it". I've not noticed such splattering on older films, presumably because cameras were bulkier and never placed as close to the action as some are today, but I've seen it on a number of films from the past 20 or so years. Perhaps this is just the electronic equivalent of a "camera smudge" that didn't get fixed at the source.
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