Questions About Older Movies On Blu-Ray + TV In Widescreen - Page 2

It sounds very much the opposite to me.  Almost certainly he has a 4:3 TV set but the PS3 is set to 16:9.

it is a new tv - magnavox HDTV - while playing a DVD or Blu-ray on the TV with an aspect ratio of 1:85 everything is taller and thinner than normal and looks horrible.   the only format that looks good on the Blu-ray is the 2:35 or 2:40 ratio, that is why I am questioning.  when I play a DVD on the Blu-ray it expands the image.

I dunno why a 1.85 blu-ray would look tall and skinny and 2.35 would look normal, as the native resolution is 1.77. A 1.85 film should fill the screen and 2.35 should have small horizontal black bars at the top and bottom of the screen. You said this is a new HDTV so I am assuming it is widescreen? You don't have it hooked up using the RCA or S-Video jacks to you? You should use the component or HDMI connections for blu-ray to get a high-def signal. The setting for the blue ray player should be to output to a 16x9 televison as well.

What model # TV?  We need this so we can give you precise instructions rather than generalities.

On the PS3,  go to display settings/video output settings.  I'll assume you are using HDMI.  Set it to automatic.  Hit the "info" button on the TV to see if you are getting 1080p.  If not, try forcing to 1080p instead of automatic.  (or 1080i if the TV won't accept 1080p).

On your DVD player if you want to use it for comparison, also set the TV shape to 16:9.

Hit "format" on the TV until it is set to either "widescreen" or "unscaled".  What did you have it on before?

It is bizarre that 1.85:1 would be distorted but 2.35:1 is not.  They ought to both be distorted if they are both Blu-ray (most likely because using wrong "format" on TV).  Or is the 2.35:1 a DVD, not Blu-ray?  Supply us with example titles of the latter, and are you *sure* it's not distorted?  I think the latter probably does expand to widescreen, but still tall+ thin objects, if you had your "format" on "automatic".  My guess is your TV was format automatic, PS3 was set to 16:9 output but 480i/480p, causing the issue.

Clayton:  Please tell us (read: Stephen) what model your set is and how it is hooked up.

As soon as you do, you'll get the answer you are looking for. 

hello -- the model # is 37MF321D37 - for a title example is the blue ray - Hellraiser 1:85 aspect ratio. 
the PS3 is hooked up to the tv via HDMI -- the dvd player is hooked up via S video...   basically the 1:85 or 1:77 let's say on a normal DVD - Scream is "widescreen" with the bars above and below.   however for example the Hellraiser blu-ray - same aspect ration, but different format - fills the screen.    Does all of this help, or is there anything else I am leaving out?  thanks

Hellraiser is NOT the same aspect ratio as Scream.  Hellraiser is 1.85:1 and therefore should fill the screen of your Magnavox LCD 16:9 HDTV.  Scream is 2.35:1. 

Does this solve the "mystery"?

BTW - which version of Scream do you own?  The earliest release was a non-anamorphic widescreen release and that would complicate the matter even more.  BTW, why on Earth are you using s-video for your DVD player?  The best connection would be component, assuming HDMI is not an option.

What happens when you play Hellraiser on your PS3?  (You do know that it can play SD DVDs, don't you?)  

Are both your DVD player and your PS3 set to output to a 16:9 screen?  

Do the same films look the same or different when played on each player? 

Give us a list titles of each aspect ratio that you have available to you and let us a) verify the aspect ratios and b) suggest a couple of quick "tests" to run with both players. 

But if the reason you think you have a problem is that Hellraiser isn't 2.35:1, you don't have a problem.  (Except, perhaps, a misprint on the back of the DVD case.)

Regards,

Joe

OK, that makes more sense if you are using "Scream" as your example 2.35:1 movie.  That's actually an atypical disc; it is not a "16:9 enhanced" aka "anamorphic" disc which would explain why it's not distorted given your current (most probably wrong) settings.  If you plugged in a different 2.35:1 movie (say any of the "Star Wars" prequels, or the SE editions of the original trilogy), it will likely also look distorted in the PS3.

In any case, yes you are leaving out a lot!  How about answering all my other questions from my previous post, and trying those settings out?  I ask you like 6 questions you answer 2.

Hit the "format" button on the TV remote until it says "widescreen".  What was it on before?
You should be using "widescreen" for all DVD/Blu-ray, except for oddball DVDs (not Blu-ray) like "Scream" which should use "movie expand 16:9", and old 4:3 DVDs like "Wizard of Oz" which should use 4:3.  "Automatic" may or may not work after you get the settings on your disc players correct, I'm not familiar with Magnavox sets.

Set your DVD setup menu to 16:9 TV shape.
Set the BD player HDMI output resolution to auto, also try forced 720p (ignore my earlier post about 1080p, since you have non-1080p set).  Select 16:9 if given an option.  Hit "info" on the TV remote to confirm you are getting 1080i or 720p, not 480i/480p output from the BD.

Also, when you say "fills the screen", that seems to be contradicting the "tall and thin" statement.  Are there bars on the sides of the picture or is it covering the entire screen?  1.85:1 movies are supposed to cover the entire screen.  The main problem is whether the objects look stretched or not (do people look tall/thin or short/fat?  do circles become ovals that are too tall or too wide?).  And that should be addressed by the format button on the TV & the shape/output resolutions on the players.


Edited by Stephen Tu - 7/27/2009 at 02:12 am GMT
Edited by Stephen Tu - 7/27/2009 at 02:16 am GMT
Edited by Stephen Tu - 7/27/2009 at 02:19 am GMT

wow - this got complicated sorry for the confusion here...  either rate -- what you are saying is that 1:85 should fill my screen on blu - ray... while on a DVD player it should not correct?   ok another example - Blades of Glory - yes I know not a great movie but on blu-ray it is i assume 1:85 - which looks horrible on the Blu - ray - when I stated thin in stretched it fills up my entire screen, meaning no bars -- thus to me it looks stretched.   hellraiser - the same thing it looks expanded - when I try to play that on the blu-ray - yes I have on my tv selected the format to 16:9 widescreen or automatic --  - it just appears to me the only movies that look clear on my tv using the PS3 via blu - ray are the 2:35 or 2:40 aspect ratio - while 1:85 does not look clear..

for my DVD player i have the bose surround sound system..it is the 1.2.3 system. 

i will try the other sets --to see if I can get them to appear via widescreen to me - meaning bars below and top - which to me is widescreen and looks clearer..

another blu - ray was Postal - that fills the screen -

Part of my issue is that I have yet to open the batman set because it is 1:85 aspect ratio in blu-ray..

Absolutely not.  1.85:1 should completely fill your screen with either DVD or Blu-ray, without distortion, if you have your settings correct. It should not look stretched, merely naturally filling the screen.  It is widescreen when filling your set, because your TV is widescreen.  2.35:1 is merely "wider" screen thus has the black bars.  But if objects are stretched, you are using wrong settings.  There should be other settings that fill the screen, but without the distortion.  This distortion you are seeing, are objects *taller* than they should be or *wider* than they should be?

You should *not* see bars when aspect ratio is very close to the ratio of your set which is 1.78:1.  Seeing bars on a 2.35:1 movie is normal, since it is substantially wider than your set.  But a 1.85:1 movie is not, if you see significant bars, then the picture has been squashed and people will look too short & fat.  It will not be "clearer" this way.

Which one?  Set it so that it *only* says "widescreen".  *Not* automatic.  *Not* "movie expand 16:9" or anything else.

And what are the output settings for the Blu-ray?  When you hit "info" on your TV remote, what is displayed?  480i/480p/720p/1080i?

There should also be an option on the Bose video settings for TV aspect ratio, set it to "widescreen".

Dude, nothing should looked stretched or out-of-proportion - ever.

1:85 is an aspect ratio of width to height. It has nothing to do with wether or not the disc is a dvd or blu-ray. Either format, 1:85 should fill the widescreen tv with no bars on any side of the screen.
 
2:35 is a slightly wider aspect ratio than 1:85, which means that in order to fit the entire image area into that of the common widescreen television, small black bars will appear above and below the image.

1:33 is yet another aspect ratio which is pretty much square, meaning that on a widescreen set you will have bars on the left and right of the image. The vast majority of films produced before 1950 or so fall into this category, along with lots of material produced for TV before HD became commonplace.

In the early days of DVD, many of the discs were not "enhanced for widescreen". These dvd's would not auto-format to utilize the full resolution of a widescreen TV. They would fill the center "square" area of the screen and the user would have to utilize the zoom function of the television to fill more screen real-estate.

Set your DVD player to output to 16:9. If you have it set to output to 1:33 then you are going to have some stretchy people.

No, that is not correct.  It is the oppposite of correct.  It is completely, totally, cosmically wrong.  It is so wrong, and so contrary to everything that you have been told in every reply in this thread, that I am at a total loss as to where you got this idea.  It seems to me that we have all been wasting our time here, because I'm not even sure we are speaking the same language. 

A 1.85:1 image (that is a ratio, in which the first number is the width of the image and the second the height of the image) is going to appear exactly the same on a given TV set, regardless of the source, provided the both the source device and the TV are using the proper settings.  

I, for one, am going to give up on this thread unless you start answering our questions.  

1) List every single piece of equipment in your system.  Make and model.   ("The Bose 1.2.3 system" is not a model number. Please look on the back of the unit and get the actual number.) 

2)  Describe how each is connected. 

3)  Describe the output settings on your DVD player and your PS3.


"Widescreen" is not something defined by you perceptions.  There is no such thing as "widescreen to me" or "widescreen to you."  If an image has an aspect ratio of greater than 1.37:1, it is widescreen.  If it is 1.37:1 or less (1.33:1, for instance, which is the SD television ratio) it is not widescreen.  Widescreen is NOT defined by the presence of "black bars"  - especially an HDTV like your set which is, itself WIDESCREEN.  (Your TV's aspect ratio is about 1.78:1 - AKA 16:9 - which is - see above - wider than 1.37:1.)  

If you had a standard def, standard screen-shape TV with a 1.33:1 ratio (also expressed as 4:3) all of the above ratios would have "black bars".  The smaller ones would have smaller black bars, the wider ones larger bars.   

Widescreen ratios range from 1.66:1 to 2.66:1.  Most current widescreen films are 1.85:1 or 2.35:1.  The 1.85:1 films should fill your 1.78:1 screen regardless of whether they are playing on a standard DVD player or your Blu Ray player, either because the overscan inherent in most TVs will slightly enlarge the source image or because the mattes were opened a bit for the video transfer.  

It would really help if you would try to simply describe what you are seeing on your screen instead of using vague terms like "filling the screen".  In the case of films that look "wrong" to you -   Do objects appear tall and thin (stretched vertically) or short and fat (stretched horizontally.)  Or are the proportions normal? 

And please, please, please, please, PUH-LEEZ play the same bloody DVD in the DVD player and the PS3 and tell us how it looks on each.  I've asked you to do this at least once, and you evidently haven't.  This will tell us which one of them is incorrectly adjsuted.  Because believe me, if you are seeing a difference in how a 1.85:1 film looks on each, one of them is adjusted wrong.  (Frankly I don't know why you're even using a standard DVD player since the PS3 plays standard def DVDs.) 

But we're never going to find out which if you just keep repeatiing the same vague descriptions and confused language that has taken up most of this thread. 

We really are trying to help, but you are making it very hard to do so.

Regards,

Joe

These are cries for help from reasonable people, Clayton.  And the best thing about it all:  they really want to help you!  They really do! 

Give them the info they're asking for and you will soon have a much better-looking image on your TV.  No doubt about it. 

I'll just step in to give a quick to the HTF and now step away to let the experts do their job.

One quick/minor correction:  1.33:1 isn't really "square."  It basically comes out to 4:3 which as was later explained is the old-type TV dimensions. 

I am really trying to answer all the questions that are asked here -- i just don't know who's specifically to answer --

So what I can say is that If I put my DVD in my DVD bose player model # of which there is non listed on the surround sound, I put in "Superman Returns" in my DVD / Surround sounds system (it is called 123 the is the model type not the # there is only a serial #) all one system.  it appears or is widescreen (bars on the top and bottoms) the is hooked up to my tv via s - video.  I do not know the aspect ratio of this DVD (but i think it is 2.35), because I through out the box. 

Now I just tested this - i then put the same DVD (Superman Returns) - into the blu -ray PS3 player of which is conected to my TV via HDMI - it appears to be the same. bars on top on bottom. 

so I think maybe my settings are fine - potentially but maybe my perception of all of this is different.

For another example i put in the Grudge aspect ratio 1.85 on disc - plays or views as widescreen (bars top and bottom)on DVD player  - i then take the same disc and put that in the blu -ray and it takes up the whole screen.  (no bars)

now when I try to change the format on my TV to see if that changes - I am given the following options --  (noting some of these options are not there when I play the blu ray of blades of glory or postal).. I am not sure if this helps, but those are listed as 16x9 widescreen on the case..

Widescreen (current setting)
16:9 subtitle
movie expand16:9
movie expand 14:9
4:3
super zoom
automatic,

none of these options when selected - return said disc to be viewed like the DVD was (bars top and bottom)

The pitcher seems to extend (stretch the people) not fat or wider, . just stretched.(aka Taller) 

for a similar just blu-ray dis - that appears the same way - stretch is blades of glory ..

I hope I have answered all questions - if I am missing something please let me know.
thanks,

the other questions that I forgot about was why i am viewing dvds at all on the dvd player when I have the blu ray PS3 -- the major reason is this, as the majority of the 1:85 or 1:78 aspect ratio's appear like stretched on the blu - ray..  which I don't beleive looks better on the blu ray compared to the DVD players (bose 1.2.3)

Answer my questions, ignore the rest for now.  Also follow all my directions, every single one, in order, from this post.  I keep on asking you to do a number of things, and you always skip half of them or more, and try new random stuff on your own, doing things in a haphazard, unsystematic fashion.  This makes it very frustrating to try and help you.  Don't invent new questions, steps, or trials.  Just stick to the following:

1. Set the Tv's "format" mode to "widescreen".  Don't use any other setting!  If you switch between DVD& Blu-ray at any point, hit format and make sure you are still on "widescreen".

2. Superman Returns has bars on top & bottom.  This is fine.  But on each player, are the bars the same size, together taking about 1/4 of the screen (rather than nearly half), and the picture undistorted on each?  They should be.

3. Go into the Bose video settings.  Look for "TV aspect ratio".  Is it set to "widescreen" or "normal/std"?  Set it to widescreen.  It may not be exactly this wording.  Please specify exactly which of the following Bose "3·2·1" systems you have:
3·2·1 GSX or GS or just plain 3·2·1?  Series III or Series II or I?  What year did you buy it?


4. Play "The Grudge" in the Bose.  It *should* take up the whole screen, no distortion.  If you are seeing bars, do the people look normal, or short & fat?  If you are seeing bars top & bottom only, & the people still look normal to you, maybe you need your eyes checked.

5. Play "The Grudge" in the PS3.  Again it should take up the whole screen, no distortion.  Hit "info" on the TV remote.  The TV should display information about the incoming signal.  Are there any of the following numbers: 480p/480i/720p/1080i?  If so which?

6. Play a Blu-ray in the PS3.  Again hit "info" on the TV and report any #s.

7. Go into the PS3 settings, video settings.  Please note what you have currently for the following settings, if present:
- DVD wide display
-BD/DVD upscaler

8. Go into PS3 settings, "display settings".  Report connector, output resolution settings, tv type settings if given the option.


Edited by Stephen Tu - 7/29/2009 at 12:46 am GMT
Edited by Stephen Tu - 7/29/2009 at 01:04 am GMT
Edited by Stephen Tu - 7/29/2009 at 01:16 am GMT

1. Set the Tv's "format" mode to "widescreen".  Don't use any other setting!  If you switch between DVD& Blu-ray at any point, hit format and make sure you are still on "widescreen".   ok - this is generally what I am on at all times.

2. Superman Returns has bars on top & bottom.  This is fine.  But on each player, are the bars the same size, together taking about 1/4 of the screen (rather than nearly half), and the picture undistorted on each?  They should be.  i would say it is about 1/2 the screen - meaning 1/4 at top and bottom.

3. Go into the Bose video settings.  Look for "TV aspect ratio".  Is it set to "widescreen" or "normal/std"?  Set it to widescreen.  It may not be exactly this wording.  Please specify exactly which of the following Bose "3·2·1" systems you have:
3·2·1 GSX or GS or just plain 3·2·1?  Series III or Series II or I?  What year did you buy it?   it is a GS III series i bought it this year  - I could not find a aspect ratio - under the video section it has widescreen TV: Yes (16X9) DVD image: modified or original, video connector HDMI - (this i just changed this weekend).  and then TV video format: which is on NTSC (US) does not look like I can change - does this help? 


4. Play "The Grudge" in the Bose.  It *should* take up the whole screen, no distortion.  If you are seeing bars, do the people look normal, or short & fat?  If you are seeing bars top & bottom only, & the people still look normal to you, maybe you need your eyes checked.
so now i played the grudge - and now it takes up the whole screen as to which prior to this it did not?   no bars -  

5. Play "The Grudge" in the PS3.  Again it should take up the whole screen, no distortion.  Hit "info" on the TV remote.  The TV should display information about the incoming signal.  Are there any of the following numbers: 480p/480i/720p/1080i?  If so which?  the format displayed is widescreen, (mode is virtual dolby surround,) rating, none -  the top info displayed is HDMI - Other - 480p

6. Play a Blu-ray in the PS3.  Again hit "info" on the TV and report any #s. playing "Wanted" info displayed ---- the format displayed is "automatic", (mode is virtual dolby surround,) rating, none -  the top info displayed is HDMI - Other - 1080i
****note*** changed the format display to "widescreen" on the TV remote - 1/4 of the screen has black bars on top and bottom.

7. Go into the PS3 settings, video settings.  Please note what you have currently for the following settings, if present:
- DVD wide display   Letterbox
-BD/DVD upscaler   Off

8. Go into PS3 settings, "display settings".  Report connector, output resolution settings, tv type settings if given the option.  are you taling about going through the "video output settings" ?  if so the connector is HDMI, setting method is automatic,  max resolution is 1080i, with 480p and 720p also listed. , the cross color reduction filter is "off", the RGB full Rang (HDMI) is set to "full", the Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr Super-white (HDMI) is set to "on"

I hope I have answered everything? 

thanks,
C

OK, looks like we finally made progress!

1/2 the screen is too much.  You should have noticed that objects were too short/fat.  Now that you have changed "The Grudge" to take the whole screen as it should, if you put in Superman Returns you should see only about 1/4 the screen black bars, 1/8 each at top/bottom, and the picture undistorted.
OK, now it looks like you have the correct setting on the Bose.  Before you probably had "widescreen TV: No".  It's undistorted if the TV is also on "widescreen", yes?


It looks like you should be OK now.  That's the way "Wanted" is supposed to look.  About 1/4 screen taken up by bars, 1/8 each top/bottom.  All 2.35:1/2.39:1 should look approximately like this.  Any 1.85:1 should take up the whole screen, undistorted, as long as you are "widescreen" on the TV.  The info should always say "1080i" for any Blu-ray.  No more distortion on anything, right?

There might be a few old DVDs like "Scream" which are distorted in "widescreen" mode, bars taking up a 1/2 the screen on a 2.35:1 movie.  Or still having bars on a 1.85:1 movie.  Switch to "16:9 movie expand" on these to fix this.

When you say limited color space,  are you refering to the TV or the storage medium?

I know that TV's up until recently have been pretty limited in colorspace,  but with some exceeding the NTSC standard now,  aren't we getting much closer?  I often see rating from 105% to 110% the NTSC standard these days.  I don't know what films colorspace would be equivalent to in the NTSC standard though?

I didn't think there was any limitation in the medium aside from what's introduced by downscaling to 1080p and compression?

Here's an example of what a 2.35:1 film should look like by way of black bars on a 16:9 set:

Any excuse to post a picture of Meghan Fox...