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Neil Young to release archive on BluRay disc

post #1 of 64
5/6/08 at 2:28pm
Thread Starter 
From the AP: Neil Young to release archive on BluRay disc.

I'm not a fan of Neil Young but I remember many years ago, when CDs were in their heyday, that he expressed dissatisfaction with how CD's 44.1 sampling rate felt, and announced that he simply could not see releasing his archives on CD.

Seems like his patience was to his advantage.
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post #2 of 64
5/6/08 at 2:31pm

Re: Neil Young to release archive on BluRay disc

The article does get one point quite wrong, though. While you can download stuff onto the storage drive of a blu-ray player, you cannot download "more stuff" onto the discs themselves. Maybe someone should let Neil know that.
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post #3 of 64
5/6/08 at 4:14pm

Re: Neil Young to release archive on BluRay disc

"The first installment of Young's archive will cover the years 1963 to 1972 and will be released as a 10-disc set this fall on Reprise/Warner Bros. Records."

I'm having some sort of flashback, like I've heard this before.
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post #4 of 64
5/6/08 at 4:57pm

Re: Neil Young to release archive on BluRay disc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Gale
I'm having some sort of flashback, like I've heard this before.

"July"
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post #5 of 64
5/6/08 at 5:30pm

Re: Neil Young to release archive on BluRay disc

I don't understand why they'd choose blu-ray. Why not SACD or DVD-A? No hardware/software problems with them like with BD now. Plus, just like with DVD-A, we'll need to turn on a display to play an audio disc. SACD would be my choice. It'll be curious if it's also BD for Europe too.
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post #6 of 64
5/6/08 at 6:56pm

Re: Neil Young to release archive on BluRay disc

I'm a big Neil fan but I don't own a BD player yet and don't plan to in the near future.

IMHO he has shrunk an already limited market for this project down even further
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post #7 of 64
5/6/08 at 10:26pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Neil Young to release archive on BluRay disc

Kevin -- "Earlier technology didn't offer the ability to browse archive material while listening to songs in high-resolution audio, Young noted. 'Previous technology required unacceptable quality compromises,' he said in a statement. 'I am glad we waited and got it right.'"

So he likes the interactive visuals of BluRay. But I think the main reason he didn't go with SACD or DVDA is because they're abandoned formats - what would be the point?


Now that I've watched the video of his presentation (audience-shot recording of the demo), I am very impressed by the amount of visuals...and grateful that animation has advanced so far that this sort of visual archive can even be possible. In the demo they show off a dilapidated, rusty file cabinet, full of aged folders -- some of which contain his earlier vinyl 45s, some have photos, some have handwriten lyrics, interview snippets, etc., all rendered in 1080p. There's a timeline rendered as a cork board with tacks and strings and other bits of miscelanea. It just goes on and on, forever. And yes, there's also a play-all if you just want to turn off the tv.

Neil Young may have done it first, but I think this sort of approach would be great for any other long-term musician like David Bowie or Bob Dylan... I don't know if any non-billionaire musicians could afford to have this kind of project undertaken in so much detail.
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post #8 of 64
5/7/08 at 5:47am

Re: Neil Young to release archive on BluRay disc

Very cool news! I wonder what they'll use, LPCM or lossless compression.

Quote:
But I think the main reason he didn't go with SACD or DVDA is because they're abandoned formats - what would be the point?
Of course. He does want to sell the discs, after all. I've got a decent DVD-A/SACD collection, but I've got no problem with this being BD, makes more sense.
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post #9 of 64
5/7/08 at 7:45am

Re: Neil Young to release archive on BluRay disc

I'm not a big NY fan, but I actually like this idea. I do agree with Kevin though in that we'll once again need to turn on our display.
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post #10 of 64
5/7/08 at 12:22pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Neil Young to release archive on BluRay disc

Here's a video recorded from the audience, of Neil Young's demo of the first of his archive releases:

Live Video Demo of Neil Young’s Blu-ray Archive
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post #11 of 64
5/7/08 at 5:51pm

Re: Neil Young to release archive on BluRay disc

I bet there are a heckuva lot more SACD/DVD-A players out there than BD players right now. So ... he wants to sell a bunch of these, right?

And this makes no sense: 'Previous technology required unacceptable quality compromises,' Someone please explain to me about the quality compromises associated with either DVD-A or SACD.
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post #12 of 64
5/7/08 at 6:46pm

Re: Neil Young to release archive on BluRay disc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin C Brown
I bet there are a heckuva lot more SACD/DVD-A players out there than BD players right now. So ... he wants to sell a bunch of these, right?


Right now. How many are using them as such? No one I know is aware of SACD or DVD-A as audio formats. They're dead to the consumer. In fact, they were never born. The fact that I love them doesn't change this. And, yeah, I'm assuming he wants to sell them, so he's hoping to step out of a niche.
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post #13 of 64
5/8/08 at 2:56pm

Re: Neil Young to release archive on BluRay disc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blair G
I'm a big Neil fan but I don't own a BD player yet and don't plan to in the near future.

I'm a big Neil young fan, and have been waiting for this set since it was announced as "Decade II" in 1988... looks like I get to keep waiting since I don't own a blu-ray player, and with my current set up, can't justify it just to buy what would be an already expensive box set.

Shame
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post #14 of 64
5/8/08 at 5:27pm

Re: Neil Young to release archive on BluRay disc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Gilvey
Right now. How many are using them as such? No one I know is aware of SACD or DVD-A as audio formats.

You must be living under a rock then. Go to AVS and check out all the traffic with just the Oppo players and the people playing SACDs and DVD-As on them. Add Denon, and Pioneer to that too.

I agree that SACD and DVD-A never added up to be a hill of beans. But relatively speaking, BD is even now a lot smaller hill of beans. And that's not going to change all that quickly into the future if they can't get the hardware and software prices down.
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post #15 of 64
5/8/08 at 6:03pm

Re: Neil Young to release archive on BluRay disc

Quote:
You must be living under a rock then.
Nahh.

Quote:
Go to AVS and check out all the traffic with just the Oppo players and the people playing SACDs and DVD-As on them. Add Denon, and Pioneer to that too.
Neat. AVS isn't the general public, though. No one I know personally is a member. It's a niche within a niche.

Quote:
I agree that SACD and DVD-A never added up to be a hill of beans. But relatively speaking, BD is even now a lot smaller hill of beans.
More people know what Blu-Ray is than DVD-A or SACD. And, just a guess, but I'll bet more people have PS3s than all SACD players combined.
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post #16 of 64
5/8/08 at 6:23pm

Re: Neil Young to release archive on BluRay disc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Gilvey
More people know what Blu-Ray is than DVD-A or SACD. And, just a guess, but I'll bet more people have PS3s than all SACD players combined.

Well, a PS3 can play SACD, but your point is still legitimate, Blu Ray is far more mainstream than DVD-A or SACD. I have only run into one person outside of internet forums who had ever heard of SACD, and I'm the only person I know who has any kind of collection. Lots of people are aware of Blu Ray.

It's a pity, really, but SACD and DVD-A are pretty much dead, outside of the classical market. There are still releases, but they seem to cater to a very small audience. High resolution audio on Blu Ray, on the other hand, seems to have a lot of potential, although I'm with those who gripe about having to have a video monitor going to use them. That's not what I want when I play music, but if that's what I have to put up with to get hi rez, so be it.

This is the second release I've heard of on Blu Ray (the first being NIN), and I hope that there are many more.
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post #17 of 64
5/8/08 at 7:46pm

Re: Neil Young to release archive on BluRay disc

Quote:
I have only run into one person outside of internet forums who had ever heard of SACD, and I'm the only person I know who has any kind of collection. Lots of people are aware of Blu Ray.
My point exactly.
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post #18 of 64
5/9/08 at 7:11am

Re: Neil Young to release archive on BluRay disc

Other than the massive storage capacity, is there any reason why Neil has chosen BR? I can't believe that there is any video from back then that would benefit from HD mastering. I suppose scrap book material, photos, and other memorabilia may look good in HD resolutions.

And is there any word on the audio format? Wasn't his GH collection released in 24/96 DVD-V (I have it, and am pretty sure it is 24/96, but do not recall if that was DVD-A or DVD-A...I am guessing DVD-V).

I would have to say I agree with those that consider this an iffy move on his part. A DVD package with 24/96 sound would be something that could be sold to virtually anyone with a DVD player. While many non-enthusiasts know what BR is, they may not actually own one.

The subset of rabid Neil Young fans (those that will pony up for a 10 disc set), who also happen to have a BR deck has to be pretty darn small. And the subset of those that will buy one just for this release has to be smaller still.

Brian
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post #19 of 64
5/9/08 at 7:15am

Re: Neil Young to release archive on BluRay disc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian L
Other than the massive storage capacity, is there any reason why Neil has chosen BR? I can't believe that there is any video from back then that would benefit from HD mastering. I suppose scrap book material, photos, and other memorabilia may look good in HD resolutions.

Know what would make that material look even better? In a book included with the set. Who likes reading press clippings off their TV?
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post #20 of 64
5/9/08 at 11:15am
Thread Starter 

Re: Neil Young to release archive on BluRay disc

Neil has made it clear many times before that he doesn't care about sales, he only cares about quality. He's a golden-eared kind of guy.

Plus you have to assume he got investment in this project.
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post #21 of 64
5/9/08 at 12:53pm

Re: Neil Young to release archive on BluRay disc

This is interesting, but I agree with some above that question the logic of having to turn on a monitor to use it.

I can only imagine there will be a truckload of trailers, commercials, FBI warnings, disclaimers, and then everything repeated in Spanish, before you ever get a chance to just push "PLAY" and listen to the music.

Any time there is a new format, there are some artists who champion weird ways of "experiencing" their music. IE: Peter Gabriel and Todd Rundgren's experimental CD-ROMs, a Hard Day's Night (the movie) on CD (this was a VERY big deal at the time, but flopped), all those "Enhanced CDs".

One thing that makes this unique is the "entire library" concept on 1 disc which I do think has a potential to be the new "Box Set" approach for established legacy artists. In the same vein as "Season Sets" for TV shows. All us collectors might actually make this one work where those others didn't.
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post #22 of 64
5/10/08 at 12:51am

Re: Neil Young to release archive on BluRay disc

AVS is a niche within a niche? Check out the traffic there vs here.

Quote:
And, just a guess, but I'll bet more people have PS3s than all SACD players combined.

You're right, it's a guess. And this has been argued ad nauseum over there too, but just because X PS3's have been sold doesn't say how many of those are actually being used for BD.

Quote:
It's a pity, really, but SACD and DVD-A are pretty much dead, outside of the classical market.

Genesis would disagree. Ever hear of 'em?


I think I do get it now. The BD set is coming out on WB. WB used to support DVD-A, and DVD-A is truly dead, whereas there are still some releases on SACD. So maybe he didn't have a choice. I just hope they don't encode them with DTS-HD MA, or then he'd truly be screwing his fans.

I do hope that he or the record company still sees the benefit of some kind of CD release even if just for the convenience of his fans. I for one do not have a BD player at work, but I do listen to CDs there every day.
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post #23 of 64
5/10/08 at 7:33pm

Re: Neil Young to release archive on BluRay disc

Quote:
AVS is a niche within a niche?
Many of your friends have SACD? Not mine. Never heard of it. They've heard of BD, of course.

Quote:
You're right, it's a guess. And this has been argued ad nauseum over there too, but just because X PS3's have been sold doesn't say how many of those are actually being used for BD.
But they're players, and they're out there.

Quote:
Genesis would disagree. Ever hear of 'em?
And?

I guess you feel that DVD-A/SACD is a more viable medium than BD, is that your point? That it's more "mainstream" than BD?
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post #24 of 64
5/11/08 at 1:50am

Re: Neil Young to release archive on BluRay disc

Sigh ... I'm not going to argue with you anymore.

But yes, I actually do have plenty of friends with SACD and DVD-A capability who actually use it for SACD and DVD-A listening. Amazingly enough, more than the friends who have BD capability.

(BD? What's that? I thought HD DVD was dead.)

It's easy for at least me to see why when you put together that DVD-A and SACD have been out there for many more years than BD, and the hardware is a lot cheaper too.

Maybe I just hang out in audiophile circles vs videophile.

If Neil wants to get his material out into as many hands as he can, then I think BD is a mistake. Most people don't even realize you need a BD player to see high def video on an HDTV vs a good upscaling DVD player.

But do you see the irony? Genesis didn't release high res versions of their remasters in the states (Europe and Japan yes, here no), and Neil is going to do his archive on BD. Most people here seem satisfied with low quality MP3 vs even CD. Yup, BD is definitely the way to go!
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post #25 of 64
5/11/08 at 2:47am

Re: Neil Young to release archive on BluRay disc

Quote:
Maybe I just hang out in audiophile circles vs videophile.
I guess. Again, such "circles" are not even close to mass-market. SACD and DVD-A failed miserably at reaching that.

Quote:
Most people here seem satisfied with low quality MP3 vs even CD. Yup, BD is definitely the way to go!
This is a ludicrous analogy from a technology standpoint, of course, if that's what you attempted.
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post #26 of 64
5/11/08 at 5:55pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Neil Young to release archive on BluRay disc

Yeah can we stop the SACD and DVDA whining please? This release has nothing to do with either of those formats, and, if you've watched the demo, you've already seen that it could not be released on either of those formats, not as conceived.

On a new note, I like the way that the "file cabinet" imagery allows NY to include material that simply does not mesh with his other music. If you were supervising a compilation of tunes, and you had a song that was perhaps of some historical interest, but which really didn't fit the flow at all, normally you'd decide not to include it. But with this massive archive, you can stick that recording in a simulated "drawer" somewhere, and if someone really wants to play it, they can, and it doesn't have to mesh with the rest of the songs at all. This overcomes a problem that anyone who has ever edited anything -- be it an album or a magazine -- can relate to. Odd-ball tracks that just don't work, even on rarity albums, can at last find a home.
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post #27 of 64
5/12/08 at 3:08pm

Re: Neil Young to release archive on BluRay disc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_B
On a new note, I like the way that the "file cabinet" imagery allows NY to include material that simply does not mesh with his other music. If you were supervising a compilation of tunes, and you had a song that was perhaps of some historical interest, but which really didn't fit the flow at all, normally you'd decide not to include it. But with this massive archive, you can stick that recording in a simulated "drawer" somewhere, and if someone really wants to play it, they can, and it doesn't have to mesh with the rest of the songs at all. This overcomes a problem that anyone who has ever edited anything -- be it an album or a magazine -- can relate to. Odd-ball tracks that just don't work, even on rarity albums, can at last find a home.
I have to agree, it's a neat idea. That said, it looks too much to me like a "Wow! Look what we can do!" kinda thing as opposed to actually being practical for listening. I would of liked a demo showing how this thing actually worked. Is there a play all? He picks "Mr. Soul", then there's a clip of him performing it on Ed Sullivan (if memory serves), is there a video option to watch that all at once? I really would of preferred a DVD frankly. Hi-Rez audio to listen too, clips to watch and a book to read.

The "Massy Hall" disc is one of my favorites. Great sounding audio, and some nice things to look at if your in the mood. This Blu-ray demo looks like it might be a bit of a pain in the ass, especially if your like me with a 30" or so display instead of something birthed by Cinerama in that demo vid. Gonna be hard to read all those meticulously printed news clippings and such.
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post #28 of 64
5/12/08 at 3:54pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Neil Young to release archive on BluRay disc

Re: play-all -- I suppose it depends on how much of a control freak NY is. I'd imagine there'll be options to listen to a particular album exactly the way the particular album was originally sold, and then maybe an option to listen to listen to all the finished tracks from that album session regardless of whether they made the lp or not, etc. But will there be a total, complete "play all" button to start a couple days' worth of music? Unknown.
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post #29 of 64
5/13/08 at 11:43pm

Re: Neil Young to release archive on BluRay disc

been waiting for a remastered EVERYBODY KNOWS THIS IS NOWHERE for years. The other mysterious holdout is Van Morrisons ASTRAL WEEKS
Both still using 1987 LP masters..........................BUT

Ill believe it when I see it-shoulda been done long ago (on DVD-A or SACD)
Neil's been talkin' this for years....and all weve seen is talk...

I dont want to have to turn on my tv to listen -and setup requires that
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post #30 of 64
5/14/08 at 12:45pm

Re: Neil Young to release archive on BluRay disc

Thanks for the video link. That is very interesting. I wonder how much this idea will catch on with other artists & labels.

I'm in the DVD authoring business, and I can only imagine this will be very expensive to produce. And I'm curious if in today's music distribution model, if this will be embraced.
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