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First DSLR - Please help me learn how to use it - Page 2

post #31 of 50

Re: First DSLR - Please help me learn how to use it

John,

It's probably part of the difference between a pro and an amateur. I'm in IT, and see PC's similarly just as a tool to get a job done. So when someone starts talking about his/her new wizbang home PC, I'm not very interested, either. However, photography is just a hobby, and part of the fun is in evaluating and acquiring new toys for that hobby. The real enjoyment is in using the equipment, but since it is just a hobby we probably do not have as much leisure time to actually play with our toys as we would like.
post #32 of 50

Re: First DSLR - Please help me learn how to use it

What he said. =) I take pictures to amuse, entertain and intrigue one person, me. I have fun with it and it is never 'work'. I am serious about those things which I have fun with, and that includes both HT and photography. I push myself to learn more about both constantly and to get the best performance for the money out of the gear I am using in both hobbies. I dont spend money foolishly on either, but I research the hell out of my options and when I settle on something typically I get 3-4+ years out of it or more. My Paradigm speakers have lasted since the month DVD came to NJ. I dont intend to replace my projector until 1080p versions are well under $1k.

My 20D lasted a bit less than that average because of the incredible things that the D300 allows me to do that the 20D couldnt, chiefly use my collection of film nikkors that have patiently waited for Nikon to get a price/performance horse back in this market space. Add in live view, spot metering, wireless flash and more and it was a worthy upgrade, and there are features (like 8FPS) which are there but I dont use. I expect to use this as long or longer than the 20D lasted me.
post #33 of 50

Re: First DSLR - Please help me learn how to use it

Found a great new photo tutorial site, I like the way this guy works:
Depth of Field in Photography | Tutorial9 - Tutorial Bliss.

Here's all his photo tuts so far:
Photography | Tutorial9 - Tutorial Bliss.

And ones on photoshop:
Photoshop | Tutorial9 - Tutorial Bliss.
post #34 of 50
Thread Starter 

Re: First DSLR - Please help me learn how to use it

John,

Unfortunately I'm a hobbyist too. I'm sure great photographers could take a basic point and shoot and using their expertise get some great shots. I, however, need to have the tools make a lot of the decisions for me.

My first and foremost need is indoor, no-flash shooting. Primarily in museums. Busy, popular museums, where I can't spend a lot of time fidgeting in front of the piece of art before shooting, because of the dozens of people jostling for viewing position.

I don't have much money to travel, so when I do I want to preserve the memory as vividly as possible. A lot of my Paris pictures (The Louvre, Musee D'Orsay, Paris at night) were taken on a point and shoot with no flash, and came out very grainy due to high ISO and bad ISO performance, etc. Luckily I'm going to get a mulligan on that as my parents now want to go and I am going to be able to go with them later this year or next. But I swore I'd do it right this time, hence my pursuit of ideal low-light lenses and camera. Sure, a pro could probably have done well with my P&S from 2006, but that's not in my skill set. So I bought what I have now to try and have it mimic a point and shoot while retaining a high level of quality, and not have the monkey holding the darned thing (me) get in the way.

I practiced all day Sunday at the Getty Museum in L.A., trying to find the ideal lens/setting combination, so that when I'm back in France (and other places) where chances are I'll only go once or twice in my life, I can get the best shots possible with least amount of fuss. The gear won't compensate for my lack of true skill, but it will at least take decent shots even if I'm not the best photographer in the world.

I'll practice night shots later this month, so that I can get that beautiful shot of the Tour Eiffel lighting up the Paris skyline!

I realize that tools don't make up for all the shortcomings, but I think it's a two-way street: good equipment forgives a bit of poor execution, and good (or great) execution can make great photos out of almost any equipment. After all, I'm pretty sure Ansel Adams didn't shoot with a Canon EOS 1Ds Mark III and L lenses

But I fall in the former category, rather than the latter. I'm not going to give up trying to get better at the craft, but I'll never be a true professional photographer so I'm going to need to get better equipment to make up for my lack of skill.
post #35 of 50

Re: First DSLR - Please help me learn how to use it

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRice
I guess what I don't understand is the endless "lusting" after gear. Yes, I have a lot of photo gear, but a big part of that is because I have three separate systems, only one of which is digital. Did I ever mention that my DSLR is a Fuji S1? That stinking thing is 7 or 8 years old. So, I have the S1, a Tokina 20-35 2.8, a Nikon 35-70 2.8, a Nikon Micro 70-180 (GREAT lens that is no longer made and one of 2 pieces of gear I think are truly exceptional) and a Tamron 200-400.

I should point out that I don't do volume work (like weddings) and I treat my gear like it is solid platinum, so it lasts.

John,

Actually, maybe part of the problem is that you don't really use your DSLR quite that much *or* just don't need the advances made in DSLRs since the S1.

It's hard to know what anyone else actually needs or could use much of. Of course, you're probably far more capable of maximizing your S1's capabilities for your needs while the rest of us need certain tech advances to help yield decent results.

Having said that. Is there any particular reason why you haven't upgraded to a newer Fuji (or maybe Nikon) body? Since you're very concerned about image quality, I'd think you should find much benefit w/ something like the Fuji S3 Pro, which isn't exactly the latest and greatest anyhow (as Fuji already came out w/ the S5 Pro last year though IQ might not actually be too different from the S3 Pro). Just wondering...

Quote:
I find it ironic that I work as a pro, yet I'm considerably less concerned with the gadgets. As long as they produce quality results, they're just hammers and nails.

I think Scott and Sam are probably correct w/ their replies (at least to a good extent). Like Scott, I too also don't care too much about the latest and greatest in the computing world anymore. There just isn't the same fun factor w/ equipment that's used in my career field after so many years of doing it professionally -- that wasn't always the case though, ie. back in my earlier days in the field. And w/ my own computers at home, I'm plenty fine w/ just getting by -- it's been that way forever now.

_Man_
post #36 of 50

Re: First DSLR - Please help me learn how to use it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlo Medina
Unfortunately I'm a hobbyist too. I'm sure great photographers could take a basic point and shoot and using their expertise get some great shots. I, however, need to have the tools make a lot of the decisions for me.
This is what I find interesting. The traditional thought used to be you would buy a very basic, fully manual camera and use it to learn the craft. Do everything yourself until you understood what you were doing. Then you would move up to the more "sophisticated" models.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Man-Fai Wong
Having said that. Is there any particular reason why you haven't upgraded to a newer Fuji (or maybe Nikon) body? Since you're very concerned about image quality, I'd think you should find much benefit w/ something like the Fuji S3 Pro, which isn't exactly the latest and greatest anyhow (as Fuji already came out w/ the S5 Pro last year though IQ might not actually be too different from the S3 Pro). Just wondering...
Probably because, to me, even the best DSLR is still scraping the bottom of the barrel. I never would have remotely considered shooting a full page magazine ad with 35mm, but now I am pretty much forced to do it with digital. I admit, I have been able to make it work better than I ever expected, but part of it is because most of the competition doesn't even seem to produce sharp shots. I don't mean they are out of focus, because nothing is IN focus.

When I want actual quality, I shoot film. I still occasionally (far too rarely) use the view camera, though these days I almost always shoot 120 in it with roll films backs. Still, I can shoot a 6x9 on Astia and do a 60 MP scan that will put the best DSLR to complete shame, and I'm not even pushing the resolving power or the film at that. I'm starting to sound like Rockwell. Plus, the "major" advancements in digital over the years have been miniscule to me, when compared to film, of course. Probably most of all, the entire idea of photography as a "profession" has been dying a lingering death, and it is not wise to invest in it anymore.

Anyway, I find it interesting that photographers produced absolute works of art for so many decades with the most basic, limited, though extremely high quality equipment. In almost every case there was far more "sophisticated" equipment available, but they didn't use it. Diane Arbus almost exclusively used a Rolleiflex TLR. Basic camera, with a barely functional meter, square format and unchangeable 80mm lens. W. Eugene Smith and Edward Weston shot with almost nothing but Leica rangefinders and maybe 2 or 3 (fixed) lenses. I see no indication all the fabulous technology available today has produced anyone to touch them. If they are "David Lean", the advanced equipment used today has produced ten million "Michael Bays".

I am quite certain I will never convince a single person. The power and creativity of technology is driven too far into our thick heads.
post #37 of 50
Thread Starter 

Re: First DSLR - Please help me learn how to use it

Quote:
This is what I find interesting. The traditional thought used to be you would buy a very basic, fully manual camera and use it to learn the craft. Do everything yourself until you understood what you were doing. Then you would move up to the more "sophisticated" models.
If I had the time, I would.

But photography for me, as I said, is a hobby. The next step up (for me) is a passion. That's where I throw myself fully into the thing I'm passionate about and do exactly what you suggest. Unfortunately, between work and private life, I only have a finite amount of time for "passion" type activities, the others fall into hobbies, which get much less of my learning time.
post #38 of 50

Re: First DSLR - Please help me learn how to use it

John,

I think there's a whole lot to be said for the "minimalist" approach when it comes to creativity, art and such -- and I suspect that's more or less what you're describing. And yes, I agree w/ that at least in principle. I think when we're given too much "power" (or advances in tech, etc.) to do stuff, we often end up choking (out our actual creativity, "seeing the forest, not just the trees", etc) on it all and maybe shoot ourselves in the foot w/ things that are actually not needed.

Many good programmers feel the same way about the "tools" in our field too though our work is definitely far more strictly science/math and craftsmanship (w/ some bits of creativity thrown in) while photography resides toward the other end of the spectrum.

For instance, when it comes to photography, at least this (semi-)serious amateur finds it very helpful to learn whatever it is via some sort of "minimalist" approach, ie. stripping away all the extra stuff that's not needed. Well, not that I always (or even often) deliberately do so, but that's how things tend to work out, ie. one step at a time. And same is true w/ other things like the violin, which I started learning a couple years ago.

Anyway, one example is learning to see what the lens sees (and to improve on composition and visualizing the shot). I find it much easier to learn to see (and work more quickly) w/ a fixed lens than a zoom lens -- or at least, keep the zoom lens at a fixed focal length (or two) for similar results. While the average person might assume that zoom lens is more convenient and quicker to use, well, it is to a degree (and is mostly a surface level thing, IMHO). I find that a fixed lens (at least in the slightly-wide-to-short-tele ranges) frees me to see the shot I want far more quickly, and then if need be, just zoom w/ my feet -- this latter bit doesn't work as well for the very wide end nor the long tele end. There are also other smaller side benefits as well, but that is the biggest one for me. And in the process, I learn to visualize better and more quickly for the focal lengths I tend to use.

And even w/ a zoom lens, it's not like I often need all the in-between focal lengths that my fixed lenses don't cover -- I (and it seems most people) end up using the 2 extreme ends of each zoom lens (and maybe 1 other middle point) for maybe 80-90% of the time anyway unless we're talking about some sort of superzoom. In fact, I don't even like my Nikkor 18-70DX enough to bother to use its short tele end at all -- I only put it on my camera when I expect to need the wide end (and usually end up only using it as an 18-35mm lens) mostly because I didn't have a good alternative. I had actually been toying (for a long time) w/ the idea of getting one of those 12-24mm (or similar) APS crop lenses to replace the wide end of my 18-70DX for exactly that reason -- well, that and better quality optics -- (and just stick w/ my 35mm prime for the next step in the range).

Anyhoo...

BTW, I just took the plunge on a Nikkor 70-300mm VR -- it's supposed to be a good quality consumer telezoom. If I like it enough, I will probably sell off either my Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 (most likely) or my Nikkor 180mm f/2.8 prime. Ideally, this would let me go lighter (and add IS capability) w/out losing too much in quality -- I'll still have a good f/2.8 lens for the circa 180mm point whichever I sell off (plus I still have my 85mm f/1.8 prime for the shorter end). Ok, enough of this "shop" talk before I reaffirm John's suspicions about me...

But seriously, John, I do think at least some of us are hearing you though putting things to practice well could be another matter entirely. Don't give up on us.

_Man_
post #39 of 50

Re: First DSLR - Please help me learn how to use it

Man-fai, I just borrowed a 70-300 last week. I liked it well enough for Soccer and baseball:
08-Baseball - a set on Flickr

But the purple fringing that I was getting on anything that was even just a little backlit drove me nuts. I definitely need to practice more with it, was tracking a local pair of Ospreys and was happy with the focus tracking on the D300, but I had trouble getting usable detail out of them.
08-Osprey - a set on Flickr
post #40 of 50

Re: First DSLR - Please help me learn how to use it

Sam,

With the bad PF problem, were you shooting at 300mm wide open (ie. f/5.6)? Based on Thom Hogan's review, PF should not be a big problem in most instances unless you shoot near 300mm wide open. It should be minimal otherwise, if it shows up at all.

_Man_
post #41 of 50

Re: First DSLR - Please help me learn how to use it

I had similar issues with my Canon 70-300mm IS lens wide open at 300mm, so it appears that Canon and Nikon have equal quality there. This was one of the main reasons I upgraded to the 70-200mm f/4 IS L lens. The lens is tack sharp wide open at all focal lengths, and still outperforms the 70-300 with a 1.4x TC attached.

However, in good light and stopped down, the 70-300 was a darn fine lens for the money.
post #42 of 50

Re: First DSLR - Please help me learn how to use it

Well, since none of the better 70-200mm lenses can do 300mm, that wouldn't be entirely fair to compare anyway. As I understand it, at <=200mm, most of the quality problems are much reduced even w/ lens wide open, no?

Anyway, my (soon arriving) Nikkor 70-300mm VR won't be the only <=200mm tele lens I'll have. When I need a faster/brighter, optically better lens, I should still have something else for the task though I'll probably only keep one, not both, between my old Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 and Nikkor 180mm f/2.8 (to go w/ 85mm f/1.8 also). Yeah, would be nice if Nikon came out w/ its own equivalent to the 70-200mm f/4L IS, but oh well...

I plan to also use the 70-300mm VR w/ a Nikon #6T macro filter for semi-macro fun. Yeah, the quality won't be as good as a true macro lens, but I'm not quite *that* interested in macro photography to invest in a dedicated lens for that (outside of the used, manual Nikkor 55mm f/2.8 Micro I bought off eBay ).

_Man_
post #43 of 50

Re: First DSLR - Please help me learn how to use it

Quote:
Well, since none of the better 70-200mm lenses can do 300mm, that wouldn't be entirely fair to compare anyway. As I understand it, at <=200mm, most of the quality problems are much reduced even w/ lens wide open, no?

The Canon 70-300mm gets better at less than 200mm wide open, but still does better stopped down.
I was surprised how well the 70-200mm f/4 IS works with a 1.4x teleconvertor. I get almost the same length as the 70-300mm, do not lose any light since both are now f/5.6 at the long end, and still get better image quality and auto focus performance. Of course, I leave the TC off unless I really need the extra reach.

Here is one of the few 70-300mm lens shots at less than 200mm examples I could find in my gallery that was wide open (120mm @ f/4.5):



Here is what the 70-200mm f/4 can do (100mm at f/4.0):

post #44 of 50

Re: First DSLR - Please help me learn how to use it

The Ospreys were all at 300mm but most weren't wide open, I think I had it on 200iso and set to 1/500th so it was kicking mostly f6.3/f8 but a few were wide open at 5.6. I had to shoot spot metering and -3 EV otherwise everything was completely blown out. Matrix metering was just unuable in this case although I rely on Matrix for just about everything else. Was a definite learning day and I'm sure an experienced birder could have done a lot better than I did with this lens. Regardless tho, I dont think they would have been able to tame the CA that resulted.
post #45 of 50

Re: First DSLR - Please help me learn how to use it

Bird photography is a difficult skill to master, Sam. I'm terrible at it (especially birds in flight), and really need to work on my technique and practice my skills. Your shots were made more difficult because of the bright background (i.e. sky), which made metering tougher.

The first page of this gallery has a couple of shots of egrets in flight. That's the best I've been able to do so far. I took some shots of bald eagles in flight in the Canadian Rockies that were terrible.
post #46 of 50
Thread Starter 

Re: First DSLR - Please help me learn how to use it

After successfully testing it out in Bel Air Camera (where the lighting was low, like in a museum), I returned my EF 50 f/1.4 for an EF-S 17-55 f/2.8. Oh, and I had to part with another seven bills

True, the new lens won't perform as well in low light, and due to being a zoom it will have barrel distortion, but it is considerably sharper than my EF-S 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 kit lens and performs way better in low light especially at the far end.

The 50 f/1.4 was a beautiful piece of equipment, and if I ever go full frame...well first I'll cry for dropping a grand on the new lens because it won't work on that camera...but then I'll pick up the 50 f/1.4 again. If the reach wasn't so far on my XSi (80mm equivalent) I would have kept it and never bought the 17-55. But taking photos of museum art I found myself having to be too far away from the piece in order to take a photo with the 50mm and have it entirely in the frame.

Many thanks to everyone here (and especially Scott who steered me to this lens) for their help. I think I am now officially done with my purchasing until I'm ready for a whole new full frame rig (read: 4-5 years from now).

Off I go to learn the art of photography!
post #47 of 50

Re: First DSLR - Please help me learn how to use it

Congrats on the new lens, Carlo. It's expensive, but is an excellent piece of glass. I hope you got the lens hood as well. This is my most used lens, and I never use my 50mm f/1.8 prime since buying the 17-55.

As for barrel distortion, I rarely notice it on my copy. For those shots where you do notice it, Canon's DPP Raw conversion software has a lens correction feature for numerous Canon lenses, and I think the 17-55 f/2.8 is one of them (I personally have not played with this feature of DPP as yet).
post #48 of 50
Thread Starter 

Re: First DSLR - Please help me learn how to use it

I will eventually get the hood. I bought most of my gear at Bel Air Camera because they're good about returns in-person and helped me while in the store. I was willing to pay a premium over internet prices for that (about 5% over the cheap, but not grey-market, net dealers). For my return of the 50 prime they didn't charge me a fee and gave a full refund. Because they let me play around with the XSi, and try out several lenses, it's worth it for me to pay the extra money for their help, flexibility and friendliness. Plus they have a 6 months equal payment, no interest plan.

However for accessories (extra battery, lens hood, SD cards) they absolutely fleece you on those. Their prices are like 20-30% higher. So for those, I'll be buying from Adorama or BH Photo. I'll include the lens hood in that purchase.

Anyone have any luck with 3rd party batteries for the Canon DSLRs? I'm not trying to save a buck, but Adorama has an LP-E5 knockoff with 1500 mAh which is almost 30% higher rating than the stock battery for the XSi. If it's cheaper *and* I'll get more shots, I'll buy it, but I don't want to zap my camera with an unreliable third party battery.
post #49 of 50

Re: First DSLR - Please help me learn how to use it

Check out SterlingTek for extra batteries for your Canon dSLR. I've used their batteries for both my old Rebel XT and my new 40D. They are higher capacity than the Canon batteries at about 25% of the cost. SterlingTek batteries have an excellent reputation, and I've never had an issue with the ones I've bought.

I went a similar route with my first dSLR purchase, Carlo. I bought my Rebel XT and lens from an excellent local shop -- Adray Camera -- because they were helpful, are good to deal with if I needed an exchange, and their price was decent for a local brick and mortar on the equipment I was buying.

Unfortunately, their prices on accessories and higher end Canon lenses are pretty steep compared to B&H and the other reliable Internet dealers, so my subsequent purchases have been with B&H.
post #50 of 50

Re: First DSLR - Please help me learn how to use it

Scott, I just got a new Rebel XT so can you recommend some quality lens for it?
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