Blu-ray player sales

Re: Blu-ray player sales

I think it's a combination of the state of the economy and media costs. I don't buy the argument that it's player cost. The couple of hundred bucks you pay for a blu-ray player over the cost of a decent DVD player will be overcome by the premium cost of the discs in a hurry.

Re: Blu-ray player sales

Netflix rents Blu-Ray movies.

But I think the big reason for slow sales is that most (like me) are waiting for the 2.0 players.

Re: Blu-ray player sales

If the experiences of my friends with PS3s that have tried Blu-ray discs is any indication, a large reason is that "DVD is good enough". I have several friends who have bought PS3s recently to go with their HDTVs and were eager to see what Blu-rays looked like on their system and came away impressed but said that they did not notice a huge difference from DVD and would definitely not have bought a stand-alone player for blu-ray. Especially for $400 or more.

My brother is the same. I'm helping him put together a great home theatre in his basement and he has a 720p projector and 5.1 sound system but just a non-converting DVD player. The image looks good but could definitely be improved with blu-ray but he is not keen on forking over $400-$500 for a product that is still in its early stages. For him, DVD is good enough for now. Contrast that with when he first bought his home theater. He was one of the first people to buy a DVD player (when the DVD section at the Blockbuster was the size of the current Blu-ray sections) and loved the upgrade that DVD was over video.

I think that unless people are really in tune with what is possible for video quality (such as in discussions here), many people do not see the need to upgrade yet as they are happy with DVD. I don't know whether it takes a drop in the price of players or the price of software or both before people are willing to take the step up from DVD, but I think most people don't see DVD really holding them back at this point.

Re: Blu-ray player sales

Same here. $400 is too much for a player that will be obsoleted by summer or fall. So I'm waiting more or less patiently for the Sony 550.

Re: Blu-ray player sales

For me it IS player cost. Why should I buy a player now when come X-mas time I could save myself hundreds of dollars and get a better player as well. Till than other HD sources will do just fine.

Re: Blu-ray player sales

I'd say all of the above. the players are far more expensive than they need to be....I mean, c'mon, really. The disks cost more, and can't be played on existing equipment. Unless folks get a larger TV ( or sit closer to one of the same size) then the image upgrade won't be noticeable to the average joanne and joe. They also won't notice much of an audio improvement on their tiny-tinny speakers.

Me? I'm waiting for 2.0 with analog audio outs and a price under $500.

Re: Blu-ray player sales

The hardware and software are WAY TOO EXPENSIVE for the small bump in PQ, in my opinion. I've got a 52 inch Sony 1080p HDTV with an upconverting Sony S-DVD player. It really is good enough for now until those BD prices drop - and I'm normally an early adopter.

Re: Blu-ray player sales

I'm sure all the factors discussed are playing a part but the most important aspect has been missed. The format war ended in January so all the people that were sitting on the fence caused a sales increase in January so, of course, sales were going to drop in Febraury. And then the numbers went up slightly in March compared to February.

This story is just twisting figures to manufacture a story.

Re: Blu-ray player sales

Me too, and for now my Sony BDP 300 is doing fine.

Re: Blu-ray player sales

Blu Ray is still in the early adopter phase. How many homes even have a high definition television at this point? Plus, the shelves aren't exactly groaning with BD releases, and a lot of the local rental places don't carry them. The average person probably just doesn't see a good reason to buy right now, unlike some of us hardcore types.

I never understand those who say the bump is small in quality, though. On my system, and most of the others I've seen, the difference is usually quite apparent. True, some disks are better than others, but most of them are significantly better. I'd be willing to bet that a lot of the same people had a hard time telling between a shelf worn VHS and DVD too.

Re: Blu-ray player sales

Here in lies the rub...

Most of the enthusiasts on this forum will know/research the difference between various Blu-ray profiles. Casual consumers don't know and can really care less as long as the player plays their discs - and of course, some of the early players won't on certain features. I think stand-alone player sales MIGHT rise once the prices come down. The economoy is just too terrible right now, so luxury items are taking a back seat to food and gas. I really don't see people running out to upgrade in this climate when they're already content with the image SD-DVD is putting on their screens for now. I hear time and time again from family members that the transitions from VHS to DVD seemed like a pretty huge step up due to factors we're all aware of, where as going to Blu-ray seems marginal TO THEM. Yes, the picture quality is undoubtedly better, but this is probably not enough alone to win them over at this stage. Unless Blu-ray movie/hardware prices drop to SD-DVD levels in the coming years, I really don't see the format ever replacing it. For now, I will simply enjoy what's released on Blu, but none of us should be surprised if Blu-ray never becomes the phenomenon that SD-DVD is/was.

Re: Blu-ray player sales

Their figures don't count the PS3, which makes them pretty much worthless. I know it's hard, if not impossible, for them to track the number of PS3 sales that were due to Blu-ray, but that doesn't mean you can't count them at all.

Re: Blu-ray player sales

My personal impression is that BD hardware costs actually went up after Toshiba threw in the HD DVD towel. I bet that had some role.

Re: Blu-ray player sales

The PQ bump from laserdisc to DVD was a huge leap, IMO, and was a no-brainer for me to jump on that band wagon early. I bought the laserdisc player in 1990, so basically I didn't have to put up with watching a lot of movies on VHS past that point. This time around, after viewing and comparing BD and upconverted S-DVD, I just don't feel that it's worth the big bucks to jump on board yet. Don't get me wrong, the picture is stunning, but it is also very good when upconverted, as well. As I said before, when the prices fall for hardware and software, I'm there.

Re: Blu-ray player sales

Too expensive for me, heck it took the demise of HD-DVD to jump into it and though I'm scrabbling for HD-DVD discs, I'm happy. But BD at over 300 dollars in most cases, I'm not prepared to pay that. Upconversion through HDMI suits me just fine.

Re: Blu-ray player sales

Interesting, for me it is the other way round. Recently I compared the only movie I have in all 3 formats (LD, DVD, BD): Close Encounters. Using the Pioneer 919 LD/DVD player for LD, Denon 2910 for DVD, Sharp BD20 for BD; Panasonic AE2000 projector on a 2,55m wide screen with a distance of 3 m.

And while the DVD was sharper than the blurry LD, it also added a ton of artefacts e.g. aroung the text at the beginning ("present day") or about every contour. This made the picture still looking "video".

The BD in contrast was not only much sharper and detailled that the DVD, but was totally free of any data reduction artefact. In short, the pictures was looking like "film".

So, the step from DVD to BD is for me more significant than the step from LD to DVD (as the actual resolution numbers would indicate, too). I guess, the larger your screen, the more you will come to the same conclusion.


back on topic: The player sale are down because of economy, end of special marketing actions and generell Software slump in spring/summer. When DIVX died, DVD player sales did not explode at once. Next holiday season will be the deciding period.

Re: Blu-ray player sales

After I returned my A2 to Walmart, I actually went & bought an Oppo 980 instead of a BD player. Why?

1) I needed an upconverter to replace the A2.
2) I'm waiting for profile 2.0.
3) I will not pay $500 for a player. Prices need to come down.
4) My movie watching practically drops to zero during the summer months.
5) Yes HD looks better, but the upconversion of the Oppo is perfectly satisfactory.

-Dave

Re: Blu-ray player sales

Why did you get rid of the A2? Having the A3 I thought the upscaling was better than the Oppo and through HDMI. I was watching Doom DVD and it looked liked HD to me. I certainly agree with you on point #3. Way to expensive. When BD touches the 250 mark, I'll consider it for the T.V. upstairs, but for now as stated earlier, too expensive.

Re: Blu-ray player sales

I primarily got rid of it because it was too slow to boot & load. Why put up with that for S-DVD viewing? Also, due to Walmart's return promotion, I was able to return it after 5 months of use for full price. I had only bought a handful of HD-DVD's & I sold those along with the 5 I got with the rebate offer. In the end, I actually made money on the deal. IMHO, I'd have been a fool to keep a player for a dead format.

-Dave

Re: Blu-ray player sales

Blu-ray’s Market Dominance Will Be Delayed, Says ABI Research


"it will be 12 to 18 months before this market kicks into gear. Consumer electronics manufacturers need to introduce full-featured players and then get prices down to the $200 level. Until then, non-HDTV owners will certainly favor standard definition DVD players. A depressed economy in the United States could also lead HDTV and prospective HDTV owners to opt for upconverting standard players as they delay buying higher-ticket CE items. In addition, Blu-ray packaged media comes at a heavy premium over standard DVDs, although studios have brought prices down to the low $20-range for some titles."

Re: Blu-ray player sales

I don't know about smaller display sizes, but with my PT-AE2000 and a 92" screen at 3.5 meter seating distance, the difference between SD DVD and bluray through my PS3 is astounding. Up-converted the SD DVDs are pretty decent, but when it comes to details the bluray titles simply blow them away.

And forget about SD DVD without upscaling. Even through component cables and with a pretty decent player like my Denon DVD-2900 it is rather grainy...

I'd say that anybody who says the difference between SD DVD and decent 1080p material is small, whether it be BD or HD-DVD, probably has too small a screen or sit too far away to take advantage of fullHD material at all...

Re: Blu-ray player sales

BD too expensive for me right now. I have an A2 & A3. Watching V for Vendetta last night in SD on the A3 on my 50 Samsung plasma I had to doublecheck the disk to make sure it didn't have HDDVD by mistake (kidding). The upconverted picture is so good I can see why many wouldn't pay such high price to get into $ony's party. BTW looking for another scrap heap HD player leftover. I have no complaints with either machine.

Re: Blu-ray player sales

I think the point of the thread is what is keeping sales down and it was suggested that many average consumers with smaller screen sizes don’t see a big difference. I don’t expect that even many high-end consumers have a 92” display. And I pretty much expect that everyone who does have that size has already gone HD.

I freely admit that yours is bigger than mine.

Re: Blu-ray player sales

i have a sd-dvd player jukebox that holds 400 dvds. i enjoy the convenience of being able to select from my entire collection without inserting/removing dvd's each and every time. how far off in the future do you think consumers are from being able to purchase blu-ray jukebox players? that would likely make the difference for me

Re: Blu-ray player sales

Yooooo, Bo,
Since Blu-ray currently fields only about 500 titles, how long do YOU think it will take for someone to manufacture a 400 Blu-ray jukebox player?

Re: Blu-ray player sales

The main reasons as I see them are price and consumer confusion. Blu-ray players currently retail for $400-$500 and the discs sell for $25-$35 in stores. These prices put the technology outside the mainstream, for now. Furthermore, the consumer who wishes to take full advantage of an HD player has three main routes s/he can pursue: 1) S/he can walk into a store and probably get raped; 2) S/he can either pay a professional or persuade a friend/family member to purchase and set up a system for them; or 3) S/he can spend hours and days educating him or herself about display technologies, audio technologies, and reading reviews before making informed decisions.

Also, regarding how noticeable the difference is between DVDs (even upscaled) and Blu-ray/HD DVDs, there's no denying that the difference ranges from minimal to huge. I've found that most recent films, shot within about the last 3 to 5 years, offer maybe a 20-25% increase in quality. On the other hand, films older than 15 years, which are good enough to warrant a painstaking HD treatment (see: Goodfellas, Blade Runner, 2001: A Space Odyssey, etc...) offer maybe a 40-60%+ improvement, particularly when you compare the first-run DVD editions to their HD counterparts. For my money, these films are the selling point for Blu-ray -- not Spider-Man 3, not National Treasure, not even the re-release of Norbit featuring profile 2.0 compatibility and direct links to all your favorite Norbit websites(!)
Once we start seeing popular, quality titles being released like Alien/s and The Lord of the Rings & (og) Star Wars trilogies, this will most definitely contribute to greater interest in Blu-ray.

Re: Blu-ray player sales

It isn't just a matter of the economy (though that's a major factor). It's also squarely the fault of the good folks behind BD:

(1) the discs are way too expensive - it's a basic economic rule that you can only charge high when there is high demand and/or the high price implies quality or exclusivity. But to the average consumer, BD isn't all that much better than SD DVD, it shows exactly the same movies, so why pay a lot more for so little extra in return?
(2) the players are too expensive - same argument as for (1)
(3) there's a limited range of titles relative to what's available on SD DVD; newsflash to marketing executives - the first gen buyers are guys aged 30+, and that means we want the old classics and mainstream catalog, not the lobotomised teen fodder that dominates the high def releases
(4) BD came to the market in an unfinished format - come on, just how much trust is the average consumer going to have in a format that is being changed all the time?
(5) in simple economics, the marginal return on improved picture and sound quality aren't worth the additional outlay for the average consumer, regardless of cost; quite simply, Joe Six Pack has not been convinced; a little less energy on squabbling over which was better, HD or BD and a bit more on telling everyone the good news about the big improvement in picture quality would been better all round in the long run. The fanboys for HD and BD didn't help here, either. Before buying into high def, I got tired of asking friends and colleagues who already had high def systems about how good high def was and getting back a lengthy explanation of why their system was better than the other one.
(6) the resolution of the format war helped nobody either - the 'well now we've found which is the VHS and which is the Betamax' is specious. Those who sat back on their complacent asses when BD won expecting sales to rise were just soooo wrong. That was the time for increased effort, not lazing around. When VHS won over Betamax, the battle was over a brand new market with a clear utility. In the case of high def, we're talking about what is to most consumers a small improvement in an existing product. It's like deciding which is the best set of golf clubs - it may help sales to existing golfers, but it won't make people take up the sport.
(7) non-US sales of players are not being helped by the unhackable region encoding. In Europe, we've got used to buying from the USA and the far east via the 'Net. Now that avenue is drying up (okay, not all discs are region encoded, but a lot are). You think BD discs are expensive in the USA? Try doubling the cost and you've got the UK prices.
(8) all the extra whistles and bells that BD is squandering the extra disc space on mean diddly-squat to most people; the extras simply confuse most consumers, and the much-hyped interactivity would be great if the market for BD was ten year old kids - but the main buyers are adults, and we have better things to do with our time.

Re: Blu-ray player sales

I still think that most people are missing that the figures that they are comparing are from January and February. The format war ended in January and so the clear winner boosted Blu Ray player sales for that month. After that bump in sales, they went back to normal. The article just twists the figures to say that the sales dropped.

Re: Blu-ray player sales

These are the same guys that said HD DVD was here to stay, and that combo drives would be the overwhelming majority by 2010...
DVDs weren't all that cheap in 1998-1999 either.
Same as above.
Actually, judging by the sales numbers, the first-gen buyers are going after the "fluff". This was true of DVD, it was true for both formats before, and it's true now.
A non-issue. Apart from the enthusiast frothing on the boards, I have yet to hear or see anything from a "man on the street" about how unfinished specs affect them. They want the movie, they get it. Simple.
What?! That's not even remotely true for anyone but Fox. The occasional day-and-date may be region encoded, but region-free discs are way more numerous.
So is just about everything, DVDs included.
Which is what I said above, but also contradicts your point about unfinished specs above.