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An open letter to Sony - Page 2

post #31 of 59

Re: An open letter to Sony

Valerie probably won't make a dime from the DVDs even if everyone who ever watched the show bought it, because it is highly unlikely that Norman Lear, who was liberal with everything except money, would have foreseen DVD or any form of home video afterlife for TV shows in 1975 when they drew up the actors' contracts. Thus compensation for a non-existent medium would not have been included when she signed on.

It was four years between seasons 1 and 2 of Barney Miller. And they did such a lousy job with the first season that I have yet to purchase it.

And then there was Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman. They left out a whole freaking plot point! These are not competent people who care about the product they put out.

If they can't sell a product that has a considerable customer base, they should be fired and never be allowed to obtain employment in this business again.

You want to talk Sony's mockery of their back catalog I've got three words for you: The Rerun Show. There's more to this than meets the eye, but what?
post #32 of 59
Thread Starter 

Re: An open letter to Sony

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Talmadge
These studios are not going to back a losing horse. Also, with the way the economy is, of course there's going to be a slowdown in the production of new sets for your favourite television shows. There always are production slowdowns this time of the year. It's economics.

Sony has been slow for almost an entire year. They were going fairly smoothly in early 2007 with Maude, ODAAT, Jeffersons, All In The Family, Jeannie, Mad About You, Bewitched and several other sets, and then suddenly around June, it pretty much came to an abrupt stop, and it has been slim pickings ever since. Even last Christmas, the only sets we received during that period were the final seasons of Seinfeld and King Of Queens (and the complete series sets), compared to 2-3 years ago when they would've had at least 6 or 7 releases in a short amount of time.
post #33 of 59

Re: An open letter to Sony

Perhaps that's part of the problem. All the studios saw potential, but they hoped to get the most bang for the least buck, and flooded the market. They threw dozens of shows to the wall to see which ones would stick.
post #34 of 59
Thread Starter 

Re: An open letter to Sony

Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewA
Perhaps that's part of the problem. All the studios saw potential, but they hoped to get the most bang for the least buck, and flooded the market. They threw dozens of shows to the wall to see which ones would stick.
that is true, but it seems like for the most part, Paramount has done a good job keeping up. Taxi's the only show I can think of that has really seemed to be "abandoned", and knowing them, I wouldn't put it past them to sneak season 4 on the radar sometime in the fall. I don't see why Paramount can stay on top of things for the most part and keep sets coming at a reasonable pace yet Warner, Sony, Fox, Universal and the like can't and won't. I guess Paramount "lucked out" in the sense that they don't have one bonafide blockbuster seller that towers over the rest of the catalog (ala Friends, Seinfeld, Family Guy, Simpsons, Sopranos, Sex And The City, Lost, etc....). I know of South Park and Chappelle's Show, but both of those sets come from the Comedy Central division (even the artwork for the SP sets never have CBS on it and are still in digipacks instead of switched to the amaray cases) instead of pure CBS/Paramount. If Paramount can stick with shows like Hawaii Five-O, Family Ties and others that haven't been standard tv fixtures in eons and can see the shows profitable enough to continue on with, I don't see why Sony or Warner or Fox can't with their second-tier shows? (first-tier for Sony would probably be Seinfeld, King Of Queens and maybe shows like Married With Children and Bewitched)
post #35 of 59

Re: An open letter to Sony

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaellar
Forget about swaying the DVD division of Sony. They won't care. But the corporate umbrella may care if they get letters saying that consumers won't be buying Sony TVs, DVD players, cameras and computers because of poor customer relations at one of their divisions.

Ain't going to work. Shareholders, CEO's and Board of Directors are only swayed by one thing, Profits. The only question they ask is "are we making money?" You're going to have a tough time convincing a lot of people to boycott a company such as Sony. It won't work.

As far as the TV Shows on DVD phenomenon goes, yeah, studios messed up. They released too much crap at one time and thought that consumers would buy into it. The problem is? The plan backfired. With the economic problems that the United States has been going through, consumers just didn't have the money to spend on DVD's especially with the cost of gas and food going up through the ceiling.

Even Sony has stopped releasing new sets because they want to see if the previous releases are selling. However, stores aren't stocking older sets and the only place you can order them is through online orders or by mail order. And, even that won't work because many stores such as Borders, Best Buy, Circuit City, Barnes and Noble have started listed many of these sets as being discontinued by their distributors.

Best Buy has been notorious for removing older sets from its online store and so has Borders, for that matter. Target.com gets its stock furnished by Amazon.com and so does Borders.com for that matter. Borders online ordering store for pickup in stores bordersstores.com often lists many sets as no longer available.

Everyone can continue to moan and complain about it, but the reality of it is that nobody is buying. It's also the fault of many here who moan and complain that they aren't getting what they want because everyone acts like crybabies and that doesn't work either.

Plus, give in to the fact that there are millions upon millions upon millions of consumers who don't like ordering online because they do not trust their credit cards or whatnot to online ordering. I'm one of them ... most will walk into the store and if that store doesn not stock that set, they'll walk out of the store. Forget asking to order the item because, with the exception or Barnes and Borders, of which they charge full retail, often won't order the product to restock in their store.
post #36 of 59

Re: An open letter to Sony

So someone explain to me Sony's Fantasy Island season 2. Over a year after the season 1 release, the insert cards you get with other Sony tv dvds listed one of the "coming soon" releases was Fantasy Island season 2.

So, the first season must have done well, because they obviously planned the season 2 release, and then......nothing. That was almost 2 years ago.

Being a fan of that show, BS like this is just cruel, and wrong on many levels!
post #37 of 59

Re: An open letter to Sony

Now that I'm watching the Love Boat DVDs, I need that chaser of Fantasy Island to get my ABC Saturday night buzz.

A lot of the Sony shows that I'm hoping to watch were shot on video so its not like Sony will make a killing issuing these shows on Blu-Ray - unless they'll just pack all the episodes on a single Blu-Ray disc in DV. This would probably be the best solution for Mary Hartman.
post #38 of 59

Re: An open letter to Sony

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey3rd
A lot of the Sony shows that I'm hoping to watch were shot on video so its not like Sony will make a killing issuing these shows on Blu-Ray - unless they'll just pack all the episodes on a single Blu-Ray disc in DV. This would probably be the best solution for Mary Hartman.

Except they wouldn't sell very many copies. IMO, the fan of Mary Hartman is (in general) not an early adopter of Blu-Ray.
post #39 of 59

Re: An open letter to Sony

Mark,

I don't begrudge your anger for First Look's deplorable releases of Baywatch. Do you have any serious suggestions to make on how to make a bad situation better?
post #40 of 59
Thread Starter 

Re: An open letter to Sony

well, honestly... what I am curious about and nobody seems to know the answer is why Paramount seems to make profits off all of these "second-tier" programs from 20, 30, 40 years ago and see fit to release subsequent seasons in a timely manner, while Sony, Fox and Warner are so much more selective with what shows they continue releasing. Is Paramount really making that much more of a profit or do they just have more realistic expectations with their catalog instead of holding them to the Seinfeld/Friends gold standard?
post #41 of 59

Re: An open letter to Sony

Nothing more than a guess but maybe Paramount is happy with 'less' profit than Sony or Warners. In other words, maybe Sony or Warners consider making $100 (not a real number) not worth the time and effort of their company but Paramount would consider that $100 worth the effort.

Or maybe each company has different costs associated with their DVD production so the amount they want to make is different for each company.
post #42 of 59

Re: An open letter to Sony

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_B!
well, honestly... what I am curious about and nobody seems to know the answer is why Paramount seems to make profits off all of these "second-tier" programs from 20, 30, 40 years ago and see fit to release subsequent seasons in a timely manner, while Sony, Fox and Warner are so much more selective with what shows they continue releasing.

I think any official confirmation will be hard to come by, but it's fair to say if they have relatively lower upfront costs (transfers, dvd production, packaging) and fewer opportunity costs then their sales projection models will yield a healthy profit margin with fewer sales than many of the other companies would ever accept. A number of the Paramount shows such as Hawaii Five-0 were already digitally remastered for syndication prior to their DVD release.

Plus, I believe someone pointed out in an earlier post that CBS DVD incurs lower transfer costs and also specializes in TV-DVD output (allowing for more frequent releases since it's the only thing they put out), it's their sole area of focus, with Paramount handling distribution. I'm not sure if this was ever confirmed or just speculation.
post #43 of 59
Thread Starter 

Re: An open letter to Sony

yea, I know about Paramount cheapening out with packaging and disc artwork, but to be honest... if that is the only way to get future sets of old Warner, Fox and Sony classics, I'll be just fine with it. As long as the packaging isn't a total eyesore, it wouldn't bother me if the rest of Maude or One Day At A Time or whatever were released with typical amaray DVD trays with silver artwork, I'd be happy to have it
post #44 of 59

Re: An open letter to Sony

Quote:
I guess Paramount "lucked out" in the sense that they don't have one bonafide blockbuster seller that towers over the rest of the catalog

Star Trek?
post #45 of 59
Thread Starter 

Re: An open letter to Sony

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip_HT
Star Trek?
waaaaaaaaaay too expensive, or at least when it started out. Shows like Seinfeld and Friends could be had for under $30 on sales when they came out, Trek was always over $100 and prices didn't start coming down until a few years later, so I highly doubt that a $110 season of Star Trek TNG caused as much impulse purchases as a season of Friends or Seinfeld marked on sale
post #46 of 59

Re: An open letter to Sony

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_B!
waaaaaaaaaay too expensive, or at least when it started out. Shows like Seinfeld and Friends could be had for under $30 on sales when they came out, Trek was always over $100 and prices didn't start coming down until a few years later, so I highly doubt that a $110 season of Star Trek TNG caused as much impulse purchases as a season of Friends or Seinfeld marked on sale

Star Trek has sold very well, but nowhere near shows like Friends and Seinfeld.

The highest Vidoscanning Star Trek Season is S1 of the original series, and that's done about 10% of what the first seasons of Friends and Seinfeld did.

Trek is nowhere near 24, The Shield, The Sopranos, etc. It's a louder fanbase, but a smaller one.
post #47 of 59

Re: An open letter to Sony

Maybe if they had charged a reasonable price it would have sold better. I would have bought it for my Mom if it were.
post #48 of 59
Thread Starter 

Re: An open letter to Sony

Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewA
Maybe if they had charged a reasonable price it would have sold better. I would have bought it for my Mom if it were.
right. I know there was this "Star Trek fanatics will pay $300" mentallity, but what about everyone else? What made shows like The Simpsons, Friends, Seinfeld and the sort such phenomenons on DVD was the fact that not only did they sell to the loyal fans of each, but also sold to impulse buyers seeing the seasons on sale who normally wouldn't buy a TV-DVD. Convincing someone that getting a season of those aforementioned shows for $30 (and nowadays you can find Friends and Seinfeld sets on sale for under $20 on a semi-weekly basis) would be worth the investment is much easier that someone who is on the fence about Trek and deciding that one season of a Trek show is worth $100 or so. Granted, the most devout Trekkies would sacrifice their firstborn for a complete series set of TNG on BluRay, but the average joe wouldn't.
post #49 of 59

Re: An open letter to Sony

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_B!
I know there was this "Star Trek fanatics will pay $300" mentallity, but what about everyone else?
The hardcore fans who will pay anything probably make up for alot of the casual fans who would buy it at $40. If Paramount knows anything, it's how to make money off of Star Trek.
post #50 of 59

Re: An open letter to Sony

Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisR
The hardcore fans who will pay anything probably make up for alot of the casual fans who would buy it at $40. If Paramount knows anything, it's how to make money off of Star Trek.

It does - more-so in total revenue than in units sold. Although, they'd make more money in the long run with a lower MSRP.

Hardcore fans are never enough to make something a huge hit. They're your "money in the bank" because you know they'll buy whatever you put out. What makes things a hit is when you get the casual fan/curious consumer to buy your product.
post #51 of 59

Re: An open letter to Sony

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Levine
It does - more-so in total revenue than in units sold. Although, they'd make more money in the long run with a lower MSRP.

That's the problem. They're sacrificing the long term company health for a quick fix.
post #52 of 59
Thread Starter 

Re: An open letter to Sony

Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisR
The hardcore fans who will pay anything probably make up for alot of the casual fans who would buy it at $40. If Paramount knows anything, it's how to make money off of Star Trek.
well that's true, but I think at the same time, it could gain a substantial audience via DVD who were waiting for something like this to get into it. Case in point, Buffy. It was already a major cult series and those of us who were big fans all bought the DVD's the day they came out, but.... as has been noticed many times on this forum alone, the fact that Buffy didn't cost an arm and a leg (granted, $40-50 isn't cheap when you're on a budget but it's not $100+) was enough to entice a lot of people who had heard good things about the show to give it a shot themselves. I remember the overwhelming majority of people here were mad that a snapshot of the final cast shot from the series finale which contains a bit of a spoiler with what happens to one character was on a panel in the season 7 set, that people were mad. Why? Because while Buffy's TV audience was massive and loyal, even more people were coming into these sets blindly without hindsight of what the fans already knew a year and a half earlier. I think Star Trek and all it's offspring could've definately seen the same sort of new life on DVD the way Buffy and Angel did if Paramount aimed at making the sets a little more appetizing to a newbie/casual fan.
post #53 of 59

Re: An open letter to Sony

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Levine
What makes things a hit is when you get the casual fan/curious consumer to buy your product.
I certainly don't know the numbers but I would guess that no matter what Star Trek cost, it's never going to sell like Seinfeld or Friends though. I'd also guess that when dealing with a show with a rabid fanbase like Star Trek, the best way to make a profit is to have hardcore fans buy your product at a high price and then eventually drop the price so the casual fan picks it up. I'm sure that's not a great plan for something that is current or very popular (like Seinfeld or Lost or 24 or Friends) but it seems to be HBO's move with most of their shows (though their MSRP is now $60 instead of $100 on new stuff), Paramount's move with Star Trek or even Fox's move with The X-Files*.

*In the case of The X-Files, I guess it was more that they were heading into unknown territory and they charged $150 MSRP. If it was released today, The X-Files would probably be $60 MSRP.
post #54 of 59

Re: An open letter to Sony

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Levine
Hardcore fans are never enough to make something a huge hit. They're your "money in the bank" because you know they'll buy whatever you put out. What makes things a hit is when you get the casual fan/curious consumer to buy your product.

Example: I saw the first season's worth of "Hawaii Five-O" at the Wal-Mart in Simpsonville last year, I believe, and I held out on it, figuring that I would not enjoy it as much as I did the '80's series that I had before. Finally, I had my mother to purchase it for me, and I put in the first disc of it. I saw the 97-minute 1968 "Cocoon" pilot, and I got hooked on it and the series, mainly because of a well-known television character named Steve McGarrett, and also his legmen (Danny Williams, Chin Ho Kelly, Kono Kalakaua). Besides the characters and scenery, it was also the opening title sequence and opening music that figured into why "Five-O" still appeals to me to this day. The aforementioned aspects are also why I have all three of the currently released seasons, and why I am planning to get the fourth one when it comes this June.
post #55 of 59

Re: An open letter to Sony

Over at the other board, someone who is involved with the Silver Spoons dvd release posted about the problems at Sony. They are also having difficulty in getting Hart to Hart released because Sony is dragging their feet. In both cases, the principal actors are involved and, in the case of Hart to Hart, Robert Wagner owns half of the rights to the show and wants the entire series released. These are the actors we're talking about and Sony is still not releasing the shows. So it seems that Sony is really adamant about not releasing anything. Really disheartening but I thought it would offer further insight into the matter.
post #56 of 59

Re: An open letter to Sony

Ever since that spokesman's comment about one of their best-selling shows, "Sanford and Son," I get the impression that Sony seems to actively despise their catalog and wants to bury it in obscurity. It's not just sales that's keeping these shows away. They're intent on spoon-feeding us minisodes, but would rather die than even try to sell complete ones. Even if Sir Howard Stringer's wife and kids demand them. We'll get the rest of Bewitched, then after that they might as well close down shop.

I wish they'd spin off Columbia into a separate company. Viacom broke up and it has been a boon for TV on DVD releases of CBS/Paramount shows. If I were Norman Lear I would regret the day I sold Embassy to a soft drink company who, frankly, still did a better job in the movie and TV business than Sony has. What was the last successful Columbia picture not related to the Spider-Man or James Bond franchises? Superbad (which I thought was overrated)?

Every time I watch one of their DVDs or Blu-Rays, or go to their movies, I'll be drinking a Coke in protest.

The only other studio with such a bald-faced contempt for their catalog is Fox, who barely syndicates anything other than M*A*S*H.
post #57 of 59

Re: An open letter to Sony

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert13
Over at the other board, someone who is involved with the Silver Spoons dvd release posted about the problems at Sony. They are also having difficulty in getting Hart to Hart released because Sony is dragging their feet. In both cases, the principal actors are involved and, in the case of Hart to Hart, Robert Wagner owns half of the rights to the show and wants the entire series released. These are the actors we're talking about and Sony is still not releasing the shows. So it seems that Sony is really adamant about not releasing anything. Really disheartening but I thought it would offer further insight into the matter.

They claim "poor sales," yet Silver Spoons S1 was one of the top selling Amazon.com digital downloads. The "poor sales" claim is, as the French say, merde de cheval. Hand it over to an indie company (Shout! saw Punky Brewster, created by a former writer/producer of Spoons and on either before or after it while on NBC, through to the end), it would be out in its entirety with half as many sales in a timely fashion. If Rick Schroder could pay for the DVD production costs out of his own pocket and did, Sony would still say no.

That absolutely ugly cover art didn't help sales. It looked like a box of detergent, and it used the most generic font possible.

Meanwhile, Fox claims that 150,000 copies of The Mary Tyler Moore Show S1 equals disaster. How much could the costs involved have been? The whole industry is like one big kakistocracy. Do you remember the days when they were up in arms when a movie cost $50,000,000? That's chump change these days. Hollywood is like Washington. Give either of them $100, they manage to end up $1,000 in the hole with it.

I have two letters for Sony. They are the initials of a character on The Odd Couple played by Tony Randall.
post #58 of 59

Re: An open letter to Sony

Oh, by the way, the IMDb paints Sony's current financial state as a mixed bag:

Movie & TV News @ IMDb.com - Studio Briefing - 14 May 2008

It says that it lost $45 BILLION in operating income and that home entertainment is down 11 percent from last year.
post #59 of 59

Re: An open letter to Sony

Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewA
It says that it lost $45 BILLION in operating income and that home entertainment is down 11 percent from last year.

Hmmm, maybe because they keep releasing Adam Sandler movies over and over again and re-issuing I Know What You Did Last Summer.
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