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Bush's War -- Frontline (PBS)

post #1 of 36
3/26/08 at 1:26pm
Thread Starter 
Has anyone seen this?

I've only watched about a third or so, here: FRONTLINE: bush's war | PBS

I caught part 2 by chance and recorded it. But I wish I could watch part 1 on TV instead of the PC as well. I have to wait till Sunday I think to DVR it.

You can watch the whole thing at the link above. The video quality is excellent and chapter breaks very convenient. I believe there is a timeline feature as well, but I've not checked it out.

I think this is the best treatment of the subject matter I've watched. What sets this one apart is the focus on the behind-the-scene dealings and personality clashes at the very top. Rivetting stuff. (and depressing at the same time.)

I am also dissapointed about the fact that I stumbled on it purely by chance, and I am an avid consumer of news. Either PBS didn't promote this properly, or it was largely ignored by the Powers That Be. Or I suck. This excellent piece of journalism is the kind we should be seeing in the establishment media.

--
H
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post #2 of 36
3/26/08 at 1:50pm

Re: Bush's War -- Frontline (PBS)

Thanks for the head's up Holadem.
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post #3 of 36
3/26/08 at 2:23pm

Re: Bush's War -- Frontline (PBS)

Frontline is one of those programs that seems to do consistently good stuff. You might just want to DVR it on a regular basis.
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post #4 of 36
3/26/08 at 4:35pm

Re: Bush's War -- Frontline (PBS)

Thanks, Holadem.
Quote:
Either PBS didn't promote this properly, or it was largely ignored by the Powers That Be. Or I suck.
I applaud your willingness to consider the possibility that the fault could lie with you.

However, it CAN'T be the case that you suck, because I'VE never heard about it either.
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post #5 of 36
3/26/08 at 6:14pm

Re: Bush's War -- Frontline (PBS)

Quote:
Rivetting stuff. (and depressing at the same time.)
Yeah, this was a goodie.
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post #6 of 36
3/26/08 at 8:50pm

Re: Bush's War -- Frontline (PBS)

I am a massive Frontline fan, and I indeed watched both parts this week (and plan on repeat viewings online). I often walk away from Frontline docus learning a great deal, but "Bush's War," was exceptionally well made. I loved it.

With regards to Holadem's comment about either PBS failing to promote it (or it being ignored...), since Frontline is really just a weekly PBS show, it basically never gets "advertised," outside of the odd snipet here or there on the station itself. It's a damn shame too, but I try to suggest the show to friends whenever I can. There are quite a few really entertaining episodes on the official site, free of course, for viewing. In particular I liked "The Merchants of Cool," and "The Credit Card" (which just aired again last week).

cheers!

Josh
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post #7 of 36
3/27/08 at 6:36am

Re: Bush's War -- Frontline (PBS)

PBS is repeating this program on their HD channel. Part 1 is being shown today at 11:00 EDT.
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post #8 of 36
3/27/08 at 6:58am
Thread Starter 

Re: Bush's War -- Frontline (PBS)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron Yee
Frontline is one of those programs that seems to do consistently good stuff. You might just want to DVR it on a regular basis.
Done.

I am very much ashamed to confess that I didn't know about Frontline till this week. I am an NPR ho, but never gave PBS any thought.

I have perhaps an hour left to watch (eh, this thing is 4.5 hours ).

--
H
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post #9 of 36
3/27/08 at 7:31am

Re: Bush's War -- Frontline (PBS)

Cool. I don't watch it regularly myself but I know you'll get a lot out of it.

The last Frontline episode I watched was about the true dangers of the Internet for children, which, in part, was a great counterpoint to all the NBC "to catch a predator" stuff. FRONTLINE: growing up online | PBS
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post #10 of 36
3/27/08 at 8:02am

Re: Bush's War -- Frontline (PBS)

I did see some ads for this program but both my electronic program guide on my computer and on my cable system didn't have the running time correct. I missed recording the last half hour of part one because it was listed as being from 9-11. Fortunately my PBS station has four digital channels and it will be repeated. From what I saw, it was an excellent program. The Washington Post held an online chat with the program's producer here:

PBS Frontline: 'Bush's War' - washingtonpost.com
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post #11 of 36
3/27/08 at 9:07am

Re: Bush's War -- Frontline (PBS)

I've got the PBS HD big 3 (Nova, Nature, and Frontline) set on my DVR. Awesome HD picture and always intresting content, plus no commercials. Anyway this special is basically a condensation, or best of, of previous episodes aired over the last few years. The new packaging works well and tells the complete story better than anything else I've seen.
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post #12 of 36
3/27/08 at 2:09pm

Re: Bush's War -- Frontline (PBS)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holadem

I have perhaps an hour left to watch (eh, this thing is 4.5 hours ).

--
H

Yikes, that's longer than it took to get to "Mission Accomplished"!
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post #13 of 36
3/27/08 at 4:59pm

Re: Bush's War -- Frontline (PBS)

I downloaded this from iTunes to Apple TV today. Watched just a bit on my computer and was hooked.
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post #14 of 36
3/27/08 at 7:53pm

Re: Bush's War -- Frontline (PBS)

I'll be recording this at the recommendation of the people in this thread. It does sound interesting.

For clarification, it's 2 parts, the 1st is 2 1/2 hrs & the 2nd is 2 hrs, correct?

It's going to be on the early a.m. here, so I hope they don't mess with the timing at all.
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post #15 of 36
3/27/08 at 9:57pm

Re: Bush's War -- Frontline (PBS)

I'm back at school in Boston finishing up a degree in print journalism, so I know a half dozen or so classmates that have interned at Frontline (which is produced by WGBH). It's shows like Frontline and Bill Moyers Journal that justify PBS in a 300+ channel cable world. No for-profit news organization is going to spend the time for in-depth analysis like this. It just doesn't sell.
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post #16 of 36
3/28/08 at 6:54am

Re: Bush's War -- Frontline (PBS)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt
I'm back at school in Boston finishing up a degree in print journalism, so I know a half dozen or so classmates that have interned at Frontline (which is produced by WGBH). It's shows like Frontline and Bill Moyers Journal that justify PBS in a 300+ channel cable world. No for-profit news organization is going to spend the time for in-depth analysis like this. It just doesn't sell.

That's very true. No cable news station would devote the resources to make or the on-air time to show the kinds of programs Frontline does. The next time someone says we don't need PBS, show them Bush's War, or any number of other Frontline shows, and ask them if they'd ever see that on CNN or MSNBC or (egad) Fox.
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post #17 of 36
3/28/08 at 9:27am

Re: Bush's War -- Frontline (PBS)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Favate
That's very true. No cable news station would devote the resources to make or the on-air time to show the kinds of programs Frontline does. The next time someone says we don't need PBS, show them Bush's War, or any number of other Frontline shows, and ask them if they'd ever see that on CNN or MSNBC or (egad) Fox.

I'm not ashamed (as a Canadian) to admitting that I actual donate a small portion of my equally meagre (being a student) income to my local PBS station during their telethons. I always make sure to tell the phone operator that it's shows like Frontline, along with their dedication to high definition that drives my donation. Also, I pretty much grew up (born in 1980) on PBS children's shows such as Sesame Street, Reading Rainbow, and Square One Television.

PBS is one of my favourite channels, and Frontline is one of the reasons why.
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post #18 of 36
3/28/08 at 4:18pm

Re: Bush's War -- Frontline (PBS)

If you're a fan of Frontline, you'd notice the first 2/3s of this are paste from previous FL docs, such as The Dark Side. In many sections the VO and interview are verbatim.

A casual viewer will enjoy the new cut (so to speak) but it is not new material. The final comment from the narrator is somewhat telling in this compilation.

Without being too political, this is a careful assembly of assumptions taken from Washington Post/NY Times writers over the past few years.

I'm a huge fan of Frontline from years past, but this subject is so carefully edited, it's difficult to find any new light.

The Frontline of old is AWOL.
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post #19 of 36
3/28/08 at 5:38pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Bush's War -- Frontline (PBS)

What I find funny is that the thing is boldly titled Bush's War, yet makes a central case that it's more Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz's war. I supposed that title isn't as catchy

--
H
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post #20 of 36
3/28/08 at 5:47pm

Re: Bush's War -- Frontline (PBS)

Well, before "Bush's War" there was a "Rumsfeld's War." I guess they decided the buck stopped somewhere else.
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post #21 of 36
3/28/08 at 7:06pm

Re: Bush's War -- Frontline (PBS)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron Yee
Well, before "Bush's War" there was a "Rumsfeld's War." I guess they decided the buck stopped somewhere else.

Heh, isn't there also a "Cheney's War?"
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post #22 of 36
3/28/08 at 7:08pm

Re: Bush's War -- Frontline (PBS)

I thought so, but I could only find "Cheney's Law."
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post #23 of 36
3/29/08 at 8:59am

Re: Bush's War -- Frontline (PBS)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron Yee
I thought so, but I could only find "Cheney's Law."

Ahhh yes, that's what I was thinking of. It's hard to keep them straight - I've seen most of them a few times. "Cheney's Law," actually touches on many of the themes in "Bush's War," especially the extension of Presidential powers. A bit of the footage was used (like the above-mentioned Frontline eps) in this doc. too.

Another point that can't be made enough, is that a lot of the Frontline eps, especially their recent stuff over the last 6 years, is available for free viewing on their website. It's quite refreshing to have open access to these excellent programs free of charge, often with extra stuff on the accompanying mini-site.
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post #24 of 36
3/29/08 at 5:55pm

Re: Bush's War -- Frontline (PBS)

I am confused. Wasn't it the U.N's war, when Saddam ignored the U.N. sanctions issued as a condition of surrender after Gulf War I? If there be truth in advertising, shouldn't they have called it "Bush I's War"? Isn't Frontline supposed to put things in historical context? Just curious, because I have not seen this yet.
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post #25 of 36
3/29/08 at 6:24pm

Re: Bush's War -- Frontline (PBS)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt
No for-profit news organization is going to spend the time for in-depth analysis like this. It just doesn't sell.

Or, perhaps no "for-profit" news organizations can afford to spend the time and money because they are not unlimitedly funded to do so like Frontline which gets the majority of its funding from .... could it be.... taxpayers. So, like most governemtly funded organizations, just spend away.

And I thought this all started back when Clinton's administration made it a priority..oops...I guess PBS and Frontline didn't spend enough taxpayers' $ and go in-depth enough.
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post #26 of 36
3/29/08 at 7:30pm

Re: Bush's War -- Frontline (PBS)

I’m sure that you are not trying to violate HTF’s posting rules and guidelines Dan, so I’m curious as to why you think that this contributes to the discussion.
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post #27 of 36
3/29/08 at 11:54pm

Re: Bush's War -- Frontline (PBS)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacD
Or, perhaps no "for-profit" news organizations can afford to spend the time and money because they are not unlimitedly funded to do so like Frontline which gets the majority of its funding from .... could it be.... taxpayers. So, like most governemtly funded organizations, just spend away.
You are greatly mistaken if yout think Frontline has unlimited funding, let alone the funding allocated by a "for-profit" news organization like one of the Big Three. PBS at its peak never received the funding of a nationalized broadcaster like the CBC or BBC, and due to budget cutbacks in the last decade or two, the gap in funding has widened. If I had to guess, I'd say that any given broadcast of Frontline is produced for less than one of MSNBC's prison "doc-blocks." To put it into perspective, the president's budget for fiscal year 2008 alloted $350 million in taxpayer dollars to the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, which divides its financing between both PBS and NPR stations. That's the amount spent in Iraq every 19 and a half hours, according to the New York Times's latest figure. CBS's news division alone, which is not in the business of producing documentaries, had a budget of nearly $300 million this year — likely well over the total investment of taxpayer money in PBS, period.
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post #28 of 36
3/30/08 at 7:16am

Re: Bush's War -- Frontline (PBS)

Remember, keep politics out of this discussion. Actually I'm surprised this thread stayed open this long without someone injecting political views.
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post #29 of 36
3/30/08 at 8:57am

Re: Bush's War -- Frontline (PBS)

A reminder of the narrow limits to the exception contained in HTF Rule 4 (emphasis added):

Quote:
If the subject matter of a movie or television show includes politics and/or religion, then they may be discussed insofar as they pertain to that specific movie or television show. We stress, however, that such discussions are carefully monitored and will be moderated if it appears that any participant is using this narrow exception to introduce a broader political or religious discussion than is warranted by the movie or television show under discussion. Also, anyone who has not seen a particular movie or television show is disqualified from discussing its political and/or religious content under this rule.
Several posts above are in violation. Please consider this due warning.

M.
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post #30 of 36
3/31/08 at 12:15am

Re: Bush's War -- Frontline (PBS)

Part One did not provide a lot of historical context in respect to the first Gulf War, however the website has a nice video timeline, starting with the terrorist attacks in the 80s, that people should find informative.
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