PC guy thinking of making the leap....

Re: PC guy thinking of making the leap....

You will be absolutely blown away. Get a copy of xp and make a bootcamp partition for any time you want to game!

Re: PC guy thinking of making the leap....

I concur. Make the switch. Seriously. Your Mac will run Windows if you need it, but you won't miss it. OS X is amazing.

I run Boot Camp for gaming, and that's it. You can get MS Office for Mac, but NeoOffice has most of the features of MS Office, and it's free. Front Row is a great display for your media.

Do you have a display you're tied to? If not, you might like the iMac. If you have a screen you want to keep, the Mac mini will drive up to a 24" (1920x1200) display. Gaming won't be the best with the Mac mini, but the iMac would do fine. You'll also love the software that an Apple comes with. None of the bloatware crap. Apple includes useful software, which is usually better than the stuff you pay lots of money for on the PC side.

Apple rocks. Get one.

CJ

Re: PC guy thinking of making the leap....

Vote 3 here - hey, you're asking Mac guys if you'll love a Mac.
What else would we say

Re: PC guy thinking of making the leap....

While I won't be a voice of actual dissention, I will chime in to offer some parity. Both platforms have obvious advantages and disadvantages and you should understand this before making a decision.

Generally speaking, Macs are more reliabe than PC's, but this comes at a cost. Mac's are also extremely proprietary and expensive compared to PC's. You don't sound like a hobbyist, so this may not bother you, but be prepared to spend significantly more.

PC's also enjoy a much broader software and development base. This means that some programs will simply not be offered for the Mac, especially more obscure titles.

I'm not a Mac person, but I have worked with everything out there, including Macs. I know some Macs will run Windows, but an emulation will never work reliably compared to its native version. Again, I do not have first hand knowledge of this, so it is speculative.

Bottom line. Macs are well engineered products designed for people who want a hassle-free experience and are willing to pay for it in both price and potential software and support limitations. From what you have written, I wouldn't rule you out as a future happy Mac customer, but make sure you do your homework first.

John

Re: PC guy thinking of making the leap....

I switched last summer -- I was enjoy computers and realized I need a change of pace from Windows. I'm now persuaded that for the casual user, the home user, even the SOHO owner, a Mac can be a good choice.

My biggest caveat: if cost is the most important aspect of choosing a computer, Mac is not for you. Switching is certainly more expensive than buying a new PC. In general, Macs cost more than similar PCs. And there aren't low-end options; you can't buy a $400 Mac like you can with a PC. You will have to buy all new software as well. And if, like me, you have some software that you can't find a Mac replacement for initially, you may want to buy a copy of Windows (and maybe Parallels or Fusion) to run that software in Windows on your Mac. So, going Mac is not for the penny-pincher.

For your concerns:
The game you play is an older one and so long as it will play on a standard WinXP installation, it should work for you in BootCamp. I play Half Life 2 in BootCamp (no on Episode 1) with no problems.

But if you play a lot, you may get tired of having to reboot in and out of Windows to play the game. If it's an infrequent thing -- I play HL2 once a week or less -- it's a tolerable nuisance. You could also keep your old PC for C&C, reinstall Windows clean and only install the game.

You won't have Outlook on the Mac. If you use it for basic home email, Mail (on the Mac) is a nice program. If you use the full feature set of Outlook , with all of its filtering, calendaring, etc. you might want to take a look at the Mac's Mail, iCal, and Address Book to make sure they're sufficient. Ask here too about specific features.

You can get MS Office for the Mac. Unless you use VBA scripting, it should be fine for home use and your kids. But everyone will have to learn the new software.

If you don't need MS Office specifically, iWork is a solid suite for general use and is half the price of Office. Or, you can install your copy of Office via Parallels or Fusion, if you go that route.

You can copy all your MP3s over and iTunes will import them.

I do have my quibbles about the Mac -- nothing this complex is perfect. But I've thorougly enjoyed the switch for home use. No regrets at all.

Re: PC guy thinking of making the leap....

There's nothing emulated about Windows XP running in a Boot Camp partition on an Intel-based Macintosh. At that point, you've got a Wintel box which simply happens to have EFI instead of BIOS. It has all the advantages (lots of games) and disadvantages (lots of viruses) of Windows.

Re: PC guy thinking of making the leap....

There is great advice posted here thus far.

However, I'm going to be the guy here that is going to ease
your mind about switching to a Mac.

If you go back a few pages in this forum (or do a search of my
username) you will find some very interesting posts from me
concerning my switch from a PC to a Mac a little over a year ago.

I'll try to recap as much as I can in this thread.

Essentially, I had been a devoted PC user for over 15 years. Like
most people, I was brainwashed into thinking that Mac was something
you just didn't buy. I think there are too many people that have this
preconceived notion that Macs are overpriced computers that are
difficult to use and don't offer as nearly a satisfying computing
experience as a PC.

Well, a year ago, after being miserable with a $4700 PC that
kept crashing and having blue screen problems, I posed the same
question you did to this very forum. It took months of arm-twisting
by HTF members here to get me to switch to a Mac.

I ended up gambling on a $2400 Mac Pro desktop. Within a month
I purchased a Macbook Pro laptop and an iPod. Five months later,
an iPhone. I have fallen so deeply in love with Apple and the
products they put out that I have become a huge advocate for them.

The Mac experience is so utterly superior to a PC. The ease of
installing and uninstalling software is remarkable. There is no
windows registry that wreaks havoc on how programs play with
each other. At present, no antivirus software is required. Out of
the box, the Macs come with first-rate software that will instantly
allow you to make your own professional quality DVDs, webpages,
and photos. Unlike PCs, Macs are designed for people who want
to dream and create.

You get a top-notch email program, address book and calendar
that all interact with each other. You also get built-in video (on
the laptops and iMacs) that offer quality video communication
from wherever you are.

Yes, Macs are much more expensive than a PC. However, you
get what you pay for. Instead of getting a PC with bloated trial
software and an undesirable Vista operating system, you get a
very reliable LEOPARD OS packed with goodies as described above.

Since buying my first Mac a year ago, I have turned quite
a few co-workers away from a PC to Mac and they all swear that
they will never go back. Once you fully migrate to Mac you will
never desire a PC again.

I need to comment on something stated in this thread about
running Windows on a Mac....

This is not just simple emulation. You can run windows on a
Mac as effectively as you can on a PC. When I need to run Windows,
I use PARALLELS which seamlessly combines the two OS and allows
for running Mac and PC programs side-by-side. It is the most
amazing piece of software you will ever use. I can transfer files
from Windows to Leopard just by dragging them across my screen.

The only thing that should stop you from considering the purchase
of a Mac is if you are a gamer. Macs tend not to be as gamer
friendly as a PC. However, for everything else, Macs hand-down
outperform the competition in ease-of-use and overall functionality.

PS: I don't use bootcamp but it would seem to me that you can run
any game you want on it. Bootcamp is included in the software.


Sir, you are reading all of this from a guy that was a power PC
user and thumbed his nose at the idea of going Mac. Now a year
later, I am the biggest Apple cheerleader on this forum.

To make things easy for you I have included a few links for you
to look at and ponder...

Click Here

Click Here

As far as what to buy? Have you gone to the Apple store and seen
the iMacs? Oh boy are you in for a treat! Do yourself a favor and go
look at them in person. I guarantee you'll walk out with one.

If considering a laptop, I'd go Macbook Pro since the prices are
pretty damn good now. MacMall (online) had them for just under
$1900 last week with 2GB ram standard.

Of course, the support you will receive in this forum will be
second to none. We really are an "elite" bunch of Mac snobs here.

Please keep us up-to-date on your plans.

Re: PC guy thinking of making the leap....

Thanks Thomas. As I said, I am not up to speed on Macs. Question though. If it runs XP, how is it not just as vulnerable as any other XP machine?

John

Re: PC guy thinking of making the leap....

Ron. I agree with everything you said. Even though I am still an admitted PC devotee, I cannot deny that the Mac offers a more satisfying experience for non-hobbyists who just want to get things done, and not spend time upgrading and tweaking. My main problem with the Mac [and Apple in general] is their extreme proprietary nature. I'm a DIY kind of guy and don't like being limited in that way.

Again, I wouldn't discourage anyone from purchasing a Mac [unless they wanted after sale support from me ] but I don't think any discussion of this subject is complete without mentioning the permanent tether to Apple that results from going this route.

John

Re: PC guy thinking of making the leap....

Yes - it's in the mini jack on current iMacs. Standard optical with door on Pros. Check here for the iMac - Apple - iMac - Tech Specs


BTW there are still a few white 24in iMacs in the chain for 1399-2.16 dual chip.

Re: PC guy thinking of making the leap....

Eric,

Now that I see what you are budgeting for, if you are stuck
between the MINI or iMAC I would go with the latter. The iMac
is a piece of art. You can get a 20" 1GB ram for $1144 and less
than $100 more you can go 2GB which I highly recommend.

Click Here

And yes, I failed to mention that if you plan to run Windows
on a Mac you will need an antivirus.

Re: PC guy thinking of making the leap....

It IS just as vulnerable as any XP machine.

Re: PC guy thinking of making the leap....

It's got a screen, and a dedicated video card.

CJ

Re: PC guy thinking of making the leap....

You're off base here -- perhaps you've not used these new virtualization tools yet. My experience is that Parallels works quite reliably. My impression from reviews and online comments that Parallels and Fusion work reliably in general. They may not support the full range of accelerated 3D graphics for games and of course they're not as fast as Bootcamp. But they work, and they work well.

And to be picky, Parallels and Fusion are not emulators. They are virtualizers That may sound like semantic dodgery, but they are different things.

Re: PC guy thinking of making the leap....

Macs and PCs can share files on a network. That's how I transferred all my PC files to my new Mac.

Since your kids share MS Office files with classmates & teachers, MS Office on the Mac is probably the simplest choice.

Sounds like you'll be fine without Outlook -- you can use Mail, iCal, and Address Book.

The iMac is faster than the mini: faster CPU, faster and larger Hard Drive, faster video card. If these differences don't outweigh the cost increase, then go for the mini. You should make sure your game will run on the mini's video card, if you're going to do BootCamp for gaming.

Re: PC guy thinking of making the leap....

I know Ron loves his MBP but I am a huuuge power user and the Macbook runs everything I want including PC games just fine. you arent going to play Crysis on it but it works fine in 72 person everquest raids for example. It's light and soooo portable. I'd imagine the air is even more so, but way more expensive.

Re: PC guy thinking of making the leap....

How are apple laptops more propriety then any other brands laptops? You can use the exact same memory and hard drives as a Dell or Sony laptop and that's pretty much all anyone upgrades on a laptop. The iMac's use the same memory and hard drives as the laptops and the Pro towers offer drive, DVD Rom and video card upgrades just like tower PC's do. Sure you can't easily build your own computer from parts like you can with a PC but the vast majority of people don't do that either....and besides if you're up for a challenge check out the OSX86 project As for price the Mac Pro towers are actually cheaper then similarly speced out PC's from Dell and part for part the laptops and iMac's aren't badly priced either....in fact Dell's iMac knock off is priced higher then Apples.

I switched a year and half ago and I initially used XP both in BootCamp and Parallels but quickly came to realize that I didn't need XP and now I very seldom bother with it. Last week we sold my wife Dell Laptop and she now has a 20" iMac and loves it so we're offically an all Apple family

Re: PC guy thinking of making the leap....

The iMac has a better video chipset (one you might expect to find on a card, instead of the "integrated graphics" chipset on the Mini). That would matter if you are into 3D gaming.

The iMac uses a desktop hard drive; the Mini, a notebook one. The desktop hard drives are often faster, and they are available in much larger capacities.

The iMac has a built-in monitor and can also drive a second monitor. A Mini can drive just a single monitor.

Re: PC guy thinking of making the leap....

That's what I thought, so I was wondering why it would not have the same potential virus problems based on Thomas's comments in an earlier post.

My comments were not presented in an authoritive context. Sounds like Mac's have made lots of progress over the years. I've never even heard of Parallels or Fusion. Are these add on products or are they part of the Mac OS? Also, if they are virtualizations, how are they resource wise. Do they run at reasonable speeds? I know VMware slows my machine to a crawl.


I didn't say anything about laptops as they are all proprietary by nature. As far as desktop PC's go, I made my decision years ago and have really never looked back. Things may have changed somewhat on the Mac front by now, but even you admit that Mac's remain at least somewhat proprietary compared to PC's.

I am not a Mac hater, I just don't personally see the need to own one. Like anything else, they have advantages and disadvantages. I DO own an IPOD, and I love using it, but shudder at the thought of having to send it back to Apple for a simple battery replacement. That's the kind of stuff Apple does that turns me off to them.

John

Re: PC guy thinking of making the leap....

Commercial third-party products (as is the copy of Windows that you'd be installing on top of them).

Re: PC guy thinking of making the leap....

Looks like I've got a lot to learn about the current Mac environment.

Thanks

John

Re: PC guy thinking of making the leap....

Unfortunately, you're giving comments, towards a prospective buyer, that are outdated or simply wrong -- and you give them in what can be taken as authoritative context.

As said, these are 3rd-party applications; been out for a year or more now. They work well, run at decent speeds, fast enough for normal stuff. And the rest of the system is still usable. We do finances in MS Money in Parallels, while using Mac's Excel at the same time.

I'd certainly rather have a decent finance program for my Mac, but until then Parallels lets me run MS Money to do my finances.

Re: PC guy thinking of making the leap....

Parallels is amazing!

As Dave said, you can run Windows and Leopard at the same
time, instantly sharing files between them.

I'm too lazy to do a screenshot right now (there is one in an
older thread), but working within Parallels can be best described
as working on a Leopard desktop with a Windows START bar
just above the dock.

It's the most amazing experience to have both operating systems
at your fingertips at the same time, interacting seamlessly together.

screenshots and demos here

Re: PC guy thinking of making the leap....

Hello all. As I'm basically a PC guy with four PCs and one used Apple G-4, I'm looking to make the leap and go fully to Mac. I'm looking at the Apple site and am considering one of their refurbished models. Specifically:

Refurbished Mac Pro Quad 2.66GHz Intel Xeon
Two 2.66GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon processors
1GB (2 x 512MB) memory (667MHz DDR2 fully-buffered DIMM ECC)
250GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s 7200 rpm hard drive
16x SuperDrive (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT graphics with 256MB memory

Cost is $1,999

Thinking of pairing it up with:

Refurbished Apple Cinema Display (20-inch flat panel w/ aluminum enclosure)
20-inch (viewable), 1680 x 1050 optimal resolution, 16.7 million colors, DVI Display Connector, 2 port USB 2.0 Hub, 2 FireWire 400 ports, VESA mount compatible

Any issues, pitfalls, etc. I should be aware of? Does the Mac Pro lend itself to upgrading?

Re: PC guy thinking of making the leap....

Michael,

That's the exact machine I have sitting under my desk right now (refurb as well). I have an extra 2GB of RAM from OWC which I installed, and my monitor is the beautiful NEC 2490wuxi (it's more the size I wanted, and I got it for a touch cheaper than the Apple 23", which only has a 1yr warranty vs. 4yrs on the NEC). I also installed the bluetooth chip myself when those went on clearance when my local CompUSA was closing down.

I would definitely increase the RAM to at least 3GB total. I'm about to add another 2GB and an extra internal 320GB hard drive for backup, as I'm finally about to upgrade to Leopard. This machine is truly a marvel. Upgrades, both software and hardware are a breeze. The insides of this tower are laid out in a remarkable fashion. Every last detail has been considered. I expect to get ten years out of this thing -- it won't be obsolete for a long time.

The only issue I can think of would be physical space. I had an old 450mhz G4 tower before this, and the MacPro simply dwarfs it. I've been using this computer for almost a year now, and I have loved every minute of it.

Re: PC guy thinking of making the leap....

Refurbished is definitely a nice way to save a considerable amount of money.

For a monitor, however, I would look elsewhere, as the Apple displays haven't been updated in quite a while and don't offer really good value for money anymore, even at refurbished prices. Don't get me wrong, they are nice, just overpriced at this point, and you should probably save the money for some extra RAM .

-Christian

Re: PC guy thinking of making the leap....

Fortunately space is not an issue since one of the PCs I have is even larger than the Mac Pro. My G-4 is actually in a space in my desk which may just fit the Mac Pro. But, the Pro is so nice, why would I want to hide it?