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I, Robot: Fox Keeps Screwing Fans of Extras - Page 2

post #31 of 69
3/16/08 at 4:42pm
Thread Starter 

Re: I, Robot: Fox Keeps Screwing Fans of Extras

Agreed; I'm compelled to buy the ones they've already done right (e.g. 28 DAYS & WEEKS LATER, THE FLY), but future releases are no go for me until I know, absolutely and definitively, they've done them right.
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post #32 of 69
3/16/08 at 4:52pm

Re: I, Robot: Fox Keeps Screwing Fans of Extras

I'm with you on not purchasing Fox titles - but what message does it really send to Fox? Unless they peruse these forums and actually read why we're not happy with the titles, what might they assume? Perhaps that nobody wants Fox titles on Blu-Ray? Not exactly the message I wish to send.

I've reached the same conclusion as the rest of you; this is the process by which Fox can justify a double dip.

I'm not only going to hope that Fox changes their ways, I'm going to write and tell them what I expect as a customer. I expect the Fox Blu-Ray releases to be of the highest quality possible with the most extras available. And I also expect access to all versions of a given title on the disk. Am I really going to have to purchase the extended version of Independance Day from Japan?

At the end of the day it comes down to this; I'm going to have to be a lot more careful with my alleged "disposable" income. Ice Age, I Robot, Independance Day.... all would have been instant purchases for me a year ago. Not now.
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post #33 of 69
3/16/08 at 5:02pm

Re: I, Robot: Fox Keeps Screwing Fans of Extras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Menard
I'm with you on not purchasing Fox titles - but what message does it really send to Fox? Unless they peruse these forums and actually read why we're not happy with the titles, what might they assume? Perhaps that nobody wants Fox titles on Blu-Ray? Not exactly the message I wish to send.

I've reached the same conclusion as the rest of you; this is the process by which Fox can justify a double dip.

I'm not only going to hope that Fox changes their ways, I'm going to write and tell them what I expect as a customer. I expect the Fox Blu-Ray releases to be of the highest quality possible with the most extras available. And I also expect access to all versions of a given title on the disk. Am I really going to have to purchase the extended version of Independance Day from Japan?

At the end of the day it comes down to this; I'm going to have to be a lot more careful with my alleged "disposable" income. Ice Age, I Robot, Independance Day.... all would have been instant purchases for me a year ago. Not now.
If the other studios are selling their catalog releases and Fox isn't then it wouldn't take long for Fox's marketing data to point out that perhaps their product is priced too high. Frankly, it's the only way consumers can relay this message to Fox.
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post #34 of 69
3/16/08 at 6:34pm

Re: I, Robot: Fox Keeps Screwing Fans of Extras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
If the other studios are selling their catalog releases and Fox isn't then it wouldn't take long for Fox's marketing data to point out that perhaps their product is priced too high. Frankly, it's the only way consumers can relay this message to Fox.


didnt fox do the same thing when sd dvd first came out.
they are just following the same strategy again.
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post #35 of 69
3/16/08 at 6:36pm

Re: I, Robot: Fox Keeps Screwing Fans of Extras

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickER
The solution is simple, dont buy FOX product. If they dont make any sales, but they see the other studios are selling product at a nice pace...then they would rethink the way they do things. But i guess someone buys their overpriced, limp extra, Blu-ray releases.


Exactly. Get them where they REALLY feel it.

Doug
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post #36 of 69
3/16/08 at 6:38pm

Re: I, Robot: Fox Keeps Screwing Fans of Extras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S
FOX keeps screwing their customers by putting out stuff like I, Robot on BD to begin with. Asimov must have been spinning after what was done to his classic story. In fact, it is proof that ghosts don't exist, because the director and screenwriter of I, Robot would have been haunted for eternity by Asimov's ghost.

Still, I agree that FOX has to be the worst BD supporting studio of them all. Overpriced catalog titles and titles that have been stripped of or have reduced extra content + being overpriced. Good job FOX.

Asimov was a pragmatic man. He would probably just be cashing the check.

Doug
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post #37 of 69
3/16/08 at 6:40pm

Re: I, Robot: Fox Keeps Screwing Fans of Extras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
Fox has several BR titles coming out in the next three months or so that I'm interested in and though I can afford to buy them, I won't just for the principle of it. The only exception might be "Patton" all the others I can wait on until they're on sale. I do feel that BR consumers need to send a message to Fox by not purchasing their product, but continue to buy other studio releases so that hopefully, Fox finally does the right thing and get in line with the other studios software pricing-wise.





Crawdaddy


I agree. But isn't Patton a full featured version with all the extras of the SD release included? My understanding is that it was and in that case I will probably buy it.

Doug
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post #38 of 69
3/16/08 at 7:36pm

Re: I, Robot: Fox Keeps Screwing Fans of Extras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
I agree. But isn't Patton a full featured version with all the extras of the SD release included? My understanding is that it was and in that case I will probably buy it.

Doug
So far it's looking like that which is one of the reasons why I might buy it besides it being one of my favorite all-time films.





Crawdaddy
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post #39 of 69
3/16/08 at 10:45pm

Re: I, Robot: Fox Keeps Screwing Fans of Extras

Guys, I agree with you all. However, it's not just Fox doing this shit. I have a couple of bare-bones Spider-man BDs in my collection. After Fox took what seemed like an eternity to get off thier asses and release films on Blu, I'm not willing to boycott them for the fear that I may be waiting a long damn time for them again. To each his/her own. Extras are neat, but, not a deal breaker. Prices do need to come down for Fox BDs. I've said this before, I've been special featured to death. If the special features mean that much to me, I'll keep my sd dvds to have them. Those people who don't own the sd dvd special edition version and buy the BD version won't care about those edited/missing features anyway. They either don't know about them or don't care about them.
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post #40 of 69
3/17/08 at 3:25am

Re: I, Robot: Fox Keeps Screwing Fans of Extras

Quote:
Originally Posted by troy evans
Guys, I agree with you all. However, it's not just Fox doing this shit. I have a couple of bare-bones Spider-man BDs in my collection. After Fox took what seemed like an eternity to get off thier asses and release films on Blu, I'm not willing to boycott them for the fear that I may be waiting a long damn time for them again. To each his/her own. Extras are neat, but, not a deal breaker. Prices do need to come down for Fox BDs. I've said this before, I've been special featured to death. If the special features mean that much to me, I'll keep my sd dvds to have them. Those people who don't own the sd dvd special edition version and buy the BD version won't care about those edited/missing features anyway. They either don't know about them or don't care about them.
However, by purchasing their product, you're in a sense encouraging them to keep their high prices.
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post #41 of 69
3/17/08 at 5:04am
Thread Starter 

Re: I, Robot: Fox Keeps Screwing Fans of Extras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
I agree. But isn't Patton a full featured version with all the extras of the SD release included? My understanding is that it was and in that case I will probably buy it.

Well, supposedly, yes, but one would think the same from I, ROBOT. That's my whole point--regardless of the fact that the titles of all the previous special features have been bullet-pointed on the press release, we still won't know until the title is released and someone reviews it well and thoroughly if the special features appear in their full, unedited form.
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post #42 of 69
3/17/08 at 5:08am
Thread Starter 

Re: I, Robot: Fox Keeps Screwing Fans of Extras

Quote:
Originally Posted by troy evans
Those people who don't own the sd dvd special edition version and buy the BD version won't care about those edited/missing features anyway. They either don't know about them or don't care about them.

Hmm, way off the mark there--you forget the consumer who a) for whatever reason (financial, young consumer just getting into collecting, etc.) never got the SD special edition but b) is very much interested in bonus features, as well as c) the best video and audio available in the marketplace. Now that consumer has to make a choice between the two (or double the financial impact of the purchase by buying both) when there's 50 f-in' gigs on the Blu-ray!
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post #43 of 69
3/17/08 at 5:24am

Re: I, Robot: Fox Keeps Screwing Fans of Extras

Quote:
However, by purchasing their product, you're in a sense encouraging them to keep their high prices.

But on the flip side by not purchasing their product, you're in a sense sending the message (intentionally or not) that you're not interested in catalog titles.

It's a no-win situation.

Are the Fox bean-counters savvy enough to compare their figures to other studios sales numbers then determine that their low sales are due to people boycotting their product because their catalogs are priced 25-30% higher than other studios or because they trimmed 25% of the supplements? Don't know, but I highly doubt other studios would freely give Fox (a competitor) their sales data.

Or after crunching the numbers for Predator, Master and Commander, Patton, Butch Cassidy, etc, etc they just determine that there's no market in HDM for catalog titles and just pull the plug on future releases. Very possible.

Do I agree their catalog product is overpriced? absolutely. I'd love to pay less, I'm not a complete idiot.

Does the pricing deter a purchase from me? yes, quite a few times (ID4, Sand Pebbles, being the latest examples)

Does cutting supplements bother me? yes, I think it sucks. But it's just not a deal breaker a lot of the times.

Do I flat out boycott all their product? absolutely not. I make a case by case judgement based on just how much I like the title. There's just not enough content being released for me to go passing up favorite titles as a matter of principle, but that's me.

Give me $60 to spend and I'd purchase 2 favorite films at $27 each rather than 3 titles at $20 each I'm only luke-warm about.

Not defending Fox at all here believe me, just playing Devils Advocate.
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post #44 of 69
3/17/08 at 6:18am

Re: I, Robot: Fox Keeps Screwing Fans of Extras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_K
But on the flip side by not purchasing their product, you're in a sense sending the message (intentionally or not) that you're not interested in catalog titles.

It's a no-win situation.
It's not a no-win situation if we continue to buy catalog titles from other studios which should tell Fox that their catalog pricing is too high in comparison to their competition.





Crawdaddy
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post #45 of 69
3/17/08 at 7:19am

Re: I, Robot: Fox Keeps Screwing Fans of Extras

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnricoE
personally i don't care much about the missing extras on this release or any other fox release i have the 2 disc dvd from (id4, planet of the apes, from hell, cast away for example).

Well I have the two-disc version too. The R3 version, which came as two discs right off the bat (unlike Fox's crappy "single disc first, two discs later" ploy in the US).

I do care, though - when a blu version comes, it should feature all the extras from the already released SD. That way, we can get rid of our old DVD versions. There's no reason in the world why Fox needed to truncate the extra material for I, Robot, except to hold something back for another release.

Same with ID4 - the making of material previously available is replaced by a game no one will play, and a complicated index & search feature that surely no one with a life will ever have the time to mess around with.

Now I have these films on blu-ray, I don't want to keep my DVD versions, but Fox forces you to do so if you wish to keep all the extra material. It seems that almost every release from Fox is somehow incomplete so at the back of your mind you know what's coming.

Nobody is as blatant at screwing you as Fox.
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post #46 of 69
3/17/08 at 9:30am

Re: I, Robot: Fox Keeps Screwing Fans of Extras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
It's not a no-win situation if we continue to buy catalog titles from other studios which should tell Fox that their catalog pricing is too high in comparison to their competition.

This is a good point. Lord knows Warner has taken quite a toll on my paycheck with their catalog releases.
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post #47 of 69
3/17/08 at 9:33am

Re: I, Robot: Fox Keeps Screwing Fans of Extras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
It's not a no-win situation if we continue to buy catalog titles from other studios which should tell Fox that their catalog pricing is too high in comparison to their competition.





Crawdaddy
I stopped buying all Fox catalog releases a while back (many I would like to own). Until Fox finally lowers their retail down to what the other studios charge, they will not get my money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris S
This is a good point. Lord knows Warner has taken quite a toll on my paycheck with their catalog releases.
Ditto
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post #48 of 69
3/17/08 at 9:49am

Re: I, Robot: Fox Keeps Screwing Fans of Extras

i won't buy any ANY fox discs until they are priced to sell, not priced to gouge.
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post #49 of 69
3/17/08 at 9:52am

Re: I, Robot: Fox Keeps Screwing Fans of Extras

If you even want to start to make them a difference, you need to write to them with your complaints and reservations. It wouldn't hurt to include a list of titles you would buy on Blu-Ray.

Stranger things have happened.
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post #50 of 69
3/17/08 at 8:13pm

Re: I, Robot: Fox Keeps Screwing Fans of Extras

Apparently Fox has gotten the message a little bit:
Fox Slashes Prices on Blu-ray Catalog | High-Def Digest

Now just to wait for them to lower the price of I, Robot, etc.
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post #51 of 69
3/18/08 at 7:06am
Thread Starter 

Re: I, Robot: Fox Keeps Screwing Fans of Extras

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryH
Apparently Fox has gotten the message a little bit:
Fox Slashes Prices on Blu-ray Catalog | High-Def Digest

Now just to wait for them to lower the price of I, Robot, etc.

Their prices are only half the problem; they could lower I, ROBOT to $5 and it still would have truncated extras. They have to improve on both fronts--price and supplements--to succeed, especially with hi-def media being in as precarious a position as it currently is.
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post #52 of 69
3/18/08 at 1:48pm

Re: I, Robot: Fox Keeps Screwing Fans of Extras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Brashear
Their prices are only half the problem; they could lower I, ROBOT to $5 and it still would have truncated extras. They have to improve on both fronts--price and supplements--to succeed, especially with hi-def media being in as precarious a position as it currently is.
Yes, but in Fox defense, the price is number one of two of thier biggest issues. Sony, Lionsgate and even some Disney Blu-ray releases have not included all previously released bonus material as well. What they have done is maintain a presence in the market. Something Fox has not done. At least not well. Perhaps that will change in the coming months. However, since people still buy the Blu-rays from the other studios who don't include everything, Fox has no reason to think extra features are that important. Price on the other hand would help them greatly and if Fox Blu-ray titles did drop to $5.00 each they would fly off shelves, special features or not. Another example of where Fox misses the mark is with this weeks release of The Seeker. The dvd release has nothing on it in the way of extras, so where the hell is the day and date Blu-ray? If they release this a month or two from now who cares. They will have missed the prime buying new release timeframe that the sd dvd had. That can hurt more than pricing. I feel this special features thing is more than a Fox issue and is an issue with Blu-ray as a whole. Fox, like many here have already said, is doing this to have the double dip later. The problem isn't so much with Blu-ray as the entire sd dvd market as well. How many times have we seen the same film get released in two or three or four different versions? Too many. Sd dvd started this shit and sadly Blu-ray is following the same marketing ploy. If anyone bought the first release of any dvd and stopped there, great. Myself and many others on here more than likely bought the other versions as well. We are all to blame for what the market has become and unless we all stop getting the featureless/watered down features dvd releases it'll never change. That's hard to do when you're like me simply because, I want Blu-ray to succeed. I'm affraid if we all don't support it, then, we'll lose it. I don't want that and I'm sure many here feel the same. So, in the case of special features, I'll have superior PQ and AQ over them any day.
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post #53 of 69
3/19/08 at 8:46pm

Re: I, Robot: Fox Keeps Screwing Fans of Extras

Fox sets a crappy BD supps precedent here. They could have asterisked those SD DVD Collector's Edition featurettes whose titles they bullet point here and--right next to where the box reads "Special Features Are Not Rated"--stated "* Special Features Are Edited From Previous DVD Release."

High Def Digest's Kenneth Brown does an outstanding job of describing exactly what's 'missing' on the BD compared to the SD DVD CE in his thorough review.

Quote:
At first glance, I foolishly thought Fox had finally released a film on Blu-ray with a definitive supplemental package. Unfortunately, the stingy studio continues to miss the point, failing to respond to fan outcry. Instead of packing in all 4 hours of featurettes that appeared on the 2005 2-disc Collector's Edition DVD, Fox has trimmed down the runtime and even left an entire documentary on the cutting room floor. Approximately 240 minutes of bonus material has been reduced to 150 minutes -- instead of issuing a 2-disc BD set, Fox has elected to discard an hour and a half of behind-the-scenes information. Unbelievable.
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post #54 of 69
3/20/08 at 3:11am

Re: I, Robot: Fox Keeps Screwing Fans of Extras

I'll stick with the DVD. I'll also join the Fox boycott, they'll get the message eventually.
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post #55 of 69
3/20/08 at 8:10am

Re: I, Robot: Fox Keeps Screwing Fans of Extras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Brashear
Reviews across the internet are touting the video and audio of the recent I, ROBOT Blu-ray as among the finest releases on the market; and yet Fox is screwing the Blu-ray customer once again by making their packaging look like the BD contains all the features on the SD All-Access Collector's Edition when, in fact, many of them have been edited down from that earlier version (see details at the BD's review at highdefdigest.com). Hell, since they're all still SD extras anyway, Fox could have just added that 2nd disc from the earlier C.E. instead of truncating the extras and squeezing them on a single BD. This frankly scares the hell out me--how am I ever going to be able to trust Fox packaging now, if there's no indication that they're providing edited-down versions of previously available SD extras? I know this forum is chock-a-block with members who could give a rip about extras--just give 'em great picture and sound, and they're set--but for the rest of us, this sets an unethical and unacceptable precedent...

Yes, and Fox BD's are some of the Most Expensice on the Market. Their Steelbook SD version was at BB this week for $15, Yet you get a watered down Disk for more than twice the price.
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post #56 of 69
3/20/08 at 8:19am

Re: I, Robot: Fox Keeps Screwing Fans of Extras

Quote:
However, by purchasing their product, you're in a sense encouraging them to keep their high prices.


But on the flip side by not purchasing their product, you're in a sense sending the message (intentionally or not) that you're not interested in catalog titles.

It's a no-win situation.
If you explicitly TELL Fox WHY you're not purchasing their product, there is no "no-win" situation.
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post #57 of 69
3/20/08 at 8:44am

Re: I, Robot: Fox Keeps Screwing Fans of Extras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Menard
Am I really going to have to purchase the extended version of Independance Day from Japan?

Hence why I'm keeping my Five Star version of Independence Day. I'm particularly scared of what they're going to do to The Abyss. It may be non-anamorphic, but it's one beautiful two disc set.
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post #58 of 69
3/20/08 at 8:52am

Re: I, Robot: Fox Keeps Screwing Fans of Extras

This is one of the main reasons why I initially supported HD-DVD instead of Blu-Ray. All the greedy (high-priced, double-dipping, features-lacking) studios seemed to lean towards Blu-Ray.

Now that Blu-Ray has won the war, hopefully things will start to improve and pricing will become more consumer-friendly.
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post #59 of 69
3/20/08 at 10:50am

Re: I, Robot: Fox Keeps Screwing Fans of Extras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun
This is one of the main reasons why I initially supported HD-DVD instead of Blu-Ray..

Here we go again.. It has always been up to the studios, not formats. E.g. Warner has always been great to add extras (whether it´s SD DVD, HD DVD or Blu-ray), so they (studios) make their own choices.

Since Blu-ray now has 50gb in use, you can fully blame the Fox and not the "format". I´ve no clue why Fox is dropping extras from many of their releases.. I doubt that any of us know the real reason (if there´s one in the first place).

They want to limit their HD-releases to "one disc"? (with 50gb in use, could this really be the reason?)

They want that their SD DVD-release "still sell"? (since some people buy those for the extras etc)

No idea..

But I agree. This doesn´t work. At least not with this price range (with Fox, I mean).
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post #60 of 69
3/20/08 at 12:32pm

Re: I, Robot: Fox Keeps Screwing Fans of Extras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun
This is one of the main reasons why I initially supported HD-DVD instead of Blu-Ray. All the greedy (high-priced, double-dipping, features-lacking) studios seemed to lean towards Blu-Ray.

Now that Blu-Ray has won the war, hopefully things will start to improve and pricing will become more consumer-friendly.

jari you should quote the entire post if you want to respond that way.

shaun did say ....
"All the greedy (high-priced, double-dipping, features-lacking) studios seemed to lean towards Blu-Ray."
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