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post #121 of 335

Re: Great article on all the post format war doomsaying...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
Let's face it, most of the mass market buys their software from retailers like BB, CC and Wal-mart. Those retailers are the real indicators for pricing on HDM, not Amazon or other etailers where the educated shopper buys their software.

Exactly. Amazon, and Deepdiscount are unbeatable for their prices of Blu-Ray. While SD DVD's(new releases) from Best Buy are usually very comprable to the online market
post #122 of 335

Re: Great article on all the post format war doomsaying...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Dial
I understand that there were a handful of movie enthusiasts who, like during the LD era, owned a sizeable collection. I'm also not trying to be difficult with this point, but it really is, to me, at the crux of the entire success of DVD as a format.

It's simply not true that the average consumer owned a vast collection of movies on VHS. Even if they did, they certainly didn't impulse-buy them, as is often the norm even with higher-priced DVDs today. There is a book called "Hollywood's Road to Riches," by David Waterman. In it, he outlines the system of two-tiered pricing, and how it was intended to be a money-maker, plain and simple.

I guess my ultimate point is that DVD "unlocked," for lack of a better term, the ability to own movies, especially to own them in OAR, to the average consumer. I maintain that this is the reason so many people switched to DVD. I respect anyone's right to disagree with me. I just don't think that many people owned a large collection of movies before DVD, outside of people with large incomes (which, to be quite fair, is a lot of this forum's membership), and movie fans (which is an even larger portion ).
You are so wrong, if there wasn't a vast market of people buying VHS tapes for their collections then why did several retailers give up so much store space to stock video tapes? They did so because they were moving units of video tape.





Crawdaddy
post #123 of 335

Re: Great article on all the post format war doomsaying...

I suspect the average consumer is much like me, admiring the added quality of BD, but not even considering replacing their DVD collection. For me, the most important thing is the movie.

I recently watched No Country For Old Men on BD, via my new PS3, on my 46" Sony HDTV and found it very beautiful. I then later watched the DVD version 5 feet in front of a 60" HDTV (not sure of the model), which had the DVD player hooked up via composite cables. Honestly, I was more overwhelmed by the visuals in that scenario.

For most people - that's enough. Bigger size - better picture. I know practically none of you agreen with that sentiment, but it's a reality. People just like to watch movies. They like DVDs because they're convenient. Any time I've mentioned to my friends and co-workers about the very notion of them replacing their dvds and upgrading to something else, they shoot me a look like I'm a nutcase.
post #124 of 335

Re: Great article on all the post format war doomsaying...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aragorn the Elfstone
I suspect the average consumer is much like me, admiring the added quality of BD, but not even considering replacing their DVD collection. For me, the most important thing is the movie.

I recently watched No Country For Old Men on BD, via my new PS3, on my 46" Sony HDTV and found it very beautiful. I then later watched the DVD version on a 60" HDTV (not sure of the model), which had the DVD player hooked up via composite cables. Honestly, I was more overwhelmed by the visuals in that scenario.

For most people - that's enough. Bigger size - better picture. I know practically none of you agreen with that sentiment, but it's a reality. People just like to watch movies. They like DVDs because they're convenient. Any time I've mentioned to my friends and co-workers about the very notion of them replacing their dvds and upgrading to something else, they shoot me a look like I'm a nutcase.
Welcome to the forum, but if you are saying that the SD DVD on a larger screen hooked up via composite cables produced a better picture than the BRD on a smaller screen then frankly, I don't believe it.





Crawdaddy
post #125 of 335

Re: Great article on all the post format war doomsaying...

I certainly am not saying that. I'd expect you all to call me a lunatic if I thought that. I'm saying that a large majority of people probably won't care about actual quality difference (I mean, for god's sake, there's alot of people who watch SD channels stretched horizontally and they actually think they're watching Hi-Def).

What I was referring to was the impact of the visuals. A bigger, albeit less detailed, picture drew me in to the film moreso than a smaller HD picture. As I said, I think this would be true for the average person as well (I'm not saying that would be the case for anyone on these boards).
post #126 of 335

Re: Great article on all the post format war doomsaying...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aragorn the Elfstone
I certainly am not saying that. I'd expect you all to call me a lunatic if I thought that. I'm saying that a large majority of people probably won't care about actual quality difference (I mean, for god's sake, there's alot of people who watch SD channels stretched horizontally and they actually think they're watching Hi-Def).

What I was referring to was the impact of the visuals. A bigger, albeit less detailed, picture drew me in to the film moreso than a smaller HD picture. As I said, I think this would be true for the average person as well (I'm not saying that would be the case for anyone on these boards).
Thank you for that clarification. As for your assertion about the large majority of people, you'll be surprise how many of us do agree with you which is why Blu-ray will never overtake SD DVD in terms of market penetration.





Crawdaddy
post #127 of 335

Re: Great article on all the post format war doomsaying...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aragorn the Elfstone
For most people - that's enough. Bigger size - better picture.

That's absolutely true. I was in my local Currys store a few weeks back and witnessed 4 "youths" (I'd say somewhere between the ages of 15 and 20) absolutely droolling over a 40"+ plasma showing Ratatouille. They were standing there for at least 15 minutes oo-ing and ah-ing over it.

The thing is - the picture quality was atrocious. Bad resolution, contrast, bad colour, bad motion artifacts. They were merely impressed because it looked big.
post #128 of 335

Re: Great article on all the post format war doomsaying...

Well, I think doomsayers that think HD discs will be marginal are wrong; however, only time will tell. I also think comments like " did Aflleck really intend us to see every hair in Ed Harris's goatee" are ridiculous. HD doesn't reveal any detail that isn't already in the original source. HD merely allows the viewer to see what was already there, so the reproduction of the image via HD comes closer to the original source and therefore is closer to the director's and cinematographer's "artistic" vision.

Wow, I can't believe that someone on this site would actually advance the argument that increased resolution doesn't add enough to the director's vision to actually be worth it. I guess not having to "rewind" added to the artistic vision but a picture closer to the original source doesn't.
post #129 of 335

Re: Great article on all the post format war doomsaying...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_Scott
Jari, i'm glad you got what you wanted ( which seems to be the convienence and satisfaction of future purchase only having to be made on your favorite format.)

Like I said, I wanted the end to the "format war", so in that sense I´m (was) happy. But I´m not "happy" that some people lost their format and big collection etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_Scott
I on the other hand simply wanted more variety of content at a reasonable price...sooner rather than much later..

Like I said, for me it was a better option to stop the war quickly and then give that "fair chance" to one HD-format. Many people don´t agree with me and I can understand that, but dragging this war for e.g. 2 more years would´ve been disaster for the "high definition" (in optical media, at least). Now, at least it has that chance. It´s up to the studios/manufacturers. People need new software and new hardware - in decent prices. We need films!

I´ve faith (for Blu-ray) that things starts to roll in the Xmas/holiday season. We get some cheaper players, more film announcement and some special sales (BOGOs, I hope). "Round 2" begins..
post #130 of 335

Re: Great article on all the post format war doomsaying...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aragorn the Elfstone
..DVD player hooked up via composite cables.

I´m sure you at least mean COMPONENT? I mean composite = "compos*it". It´s the worse cable that you could use for A/V connection hands down. Even S-Video/RGB Scart are better.. Then comes component and then HDMI (which should be the 1st choice, if possible).
post #131 of 335

Re: Great article on all the post format war doomsaying...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S
Wow, I can't believe that someone on this site would actually advance the argument that increased resolution doesn't add enough to the director's vision to actually be worth it. I guess not having to "rewind" added to the artistic vision but a picture closer to the original source doesn't.

I think the point being made is that increased resolution gets closer to the source material, but doesn't necessarily add to the director's vision. It doesn't necessarily follow that the source material and the director's vision are one and the same!
post #132 of 335

Re: Great article on all the post format war doomsaying...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jari K
I´m sure you at least mean COMPONENT? I mean composite = "compos*it". It´s the worse cable that you could use for A/V connection hands down. Even S-Video/RGB Scart are better.. Then comes component and then HDMI (which should be the 1st choice, if possible).
Jari,
I can't prove it, but I'm willing to bet based on my conversations I've had with so many people over the last several years that the number of people that have their dvds hooked up by the composite cables could be as high as 40-50% in this country. You wouldn't believe how many people I'm still educating about hookups and are only doing so because they have bought a new television and need some HT advice. Furthermore, I wouldn't be surprise if that number is exceeded by those that still have their audio coming out of their television speakers and not an audio component.

Not to sound like an elitist, but just stating the facts, the stone age of the video era is still alive and well in America due to many reasons such as economics, confusion and just plain ignorance.




Crawdaddy
post #133 of 335

Re: Great article on all the post format war doomsaying...

This discussion seems to be going in circles.

HDM is ALWAYS SPECTACULARLY better.
HDM is better, but not that much better (especially to the "average consumer").
If you can't see the improvement, your eyes/gear/setup is wrong or faulty.
If you think the "average consumer" cares about ...

Lather, rinse, repeat.

As the narrator on "Pushing Daisies" (great show) likes to say, "The facts are these":

One--HDM is better. Objectively speaking, all else being equal, the PQ is better.

Two--not everyone values the quality of the improvement equally. Many see little difference (visual equivalent of those who think iTunes downloads are indistinguishable from hi-res audio), so they are unlikely to care enough to upgrade until it becomes the only game in town. Some see the difference but only if the screen is big enough (so if they have not the room/funds for such a screen, unlikely to upgrade). Some see enough improvement to warrant an upgrade (I am in this category, but there are some HDM presentations that have garnered effusive praise that, to me, are not THAT impressive--they're better, but it isn't necessarily spectacular and I suspect I'm not alone in that reaction). Some think it so much better they claim to find anything less than HDM painful to watch (a small group, but vocal enough). And then there are "the perfectionists". It seems, for them, there are only a handful (fewer than 20, it appears) of HDM releases that merit a positive review--everything else has "glaring flaws" that make it unconscionable to accept (I'm exaggerating, but only slightly).

Three--price. Like it or not, both the current low prices of SD DVD players/media and the artificially low prices of HD DVD, driven first by the "format war" and then by "fire sales", have combined to create the general (erroneous) expectation that right now, this minute, HDM players (Blu-ray) should be no more than 150$ for an entry level model and the discs should only be 1-2 dollars more than SD DVD. Those conditions will occur, but not immediately. However, unrealistic expectations make the general public hesitant to jump in.

Four--HDM is an EVOLUTIONARY, not REVOLUTIONARY change and, to the general public, appears to be a far less dramatic one than the change from VHS to DVD. Enthusiasts may not agree, but they are not the primary market for companies who want to make billions in sales of gear/media.

So what can we conclude? I think it is safe to say, as others have, that HDM will take a longer time to penetrate the market than DVD did. I personally think it will never attain the same level of penetration simply because by the time HDTVs are as common in households as SD TVs are (it is quite a number of years away from happening), some other format will have emerged so that future players will be multi-format (not limited to optical media). The only way for HDM to become dominant over SD DVD in a short amount of time would be for the studios to stop DVD altogether in as abrupt a fashion as HD DVD has stopped.

On the endless debate of whether it is worth upgrading, for most people, I think it will rest on screen size. For all but enthusiasts, anything under 50 inches will be a hard sell, I suspect--especially for those sitting 12-15 feet away from a 37-42 inch screen (the vast majority of setups).

Anyway, just my 2 cents. I've no illusions the debate will stop (nor should it, as long as it remains polite--I've learned a lot).
post #134 of 335

Re: Great article on all the post format war doomsaying...

Quote:
This discussion seems to be going in circles.

Pft......These "discussions" been going in circles for well over a year now whether it's "HD DVD vs. BD" or now "why BD wont catch on with Joe 6-pack and Jane Wine-in-a-box".

It's pretty dull when you read the same people say the same thing over the same arguments over and over and over again.

Anyhow. Don't let me interrupt. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
post #135 of 335

Re: Great article on all the post format war doomsaying...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_K
Jane Wine-in-a-box
Hadn't heard that one before. I'll have to add it to my list of "shorthand terms for the unwashed masses."
post #136 of 335

Re: Great article on all the post format war doomsaying...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
You are so wrong, if there wasn't a vast market of people buying VHS tapes for their collections then why did several retailers give up so much store space to stock video tapes? They did so because they were moving units of video tape.


Crawdaddy

I think Josh is referring to the period when VHS titles were first priced around $90 to soak the video rental stores (early 1980s), and made it prohibitively expensive for impulse purchases by regular folks. And then after the rental period ended for each title (as defined by the studio releasing said title), the VHS tapes were then marked down (usually MSRP $20-$30/title) for sale to the masses, otherwise, VHS collectors had to wait until worn, used tapes were available for sale after the demand for the titles cooled off to buy them for their collections.

And then later, towards the late 1980s, VHS titles showed up priced to move starting with their initial release, with no waiting period to let video rental stores earn some money during the "rental" pricing period, and this allowed rental stores to stock tons of copies of the "hit" titles, and opened the floodgates to much cheaper pricing on titles for VHS, and later DVD after a few years on the market as well (early 2000s).
post #137 of 335

Re: Great article on all the post format war doomsaying...

To be clear, I certainly meant composite.

Also, I should mention that I was not watching this in the comfort of my own home. I, of course, would never watch a movie on my HD set with anything less than HDMI, and my tolerance of the picture may simply have been due to the fact that I accepted I wasn't watching my own fine tuned set & thus just overlooked problems with the picture.

I was just offering a suggestion as to how the average movie viewer might be enjoying their movies.
post #138 of 335

Re: Great article on all the post format war doomsaying...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Sun
I think Josh is referring to the period when VHS titles were first priced around $90 to soak the video rental stores (early 1980s), and made it prohibitively expensive for impulse purchases by regular folks. And then after the rental period ended for each title (as defined by the studio releasing said title), the VHS tapes were then marked down (usually MSRP $20-$30/title) for sale to the masses, otherwise, VHS collectors had to wait until worn, used tapes were available for sale after the demand for the titles cooled off to buy them for their collections.

And then later, towards the late 1980s, VHS titles showed up priced to move starting with their initial release, with no waiting period to let video rental stores earn some money during the "rental" pricing period, and this allowed rental stores to stock tons of copies of the "hit" titles, and opened the floodgates to much cheaper pricing on titles for VHS, and later DVD after a few years on the market as well (early 2000s).
If so then why did he make the following comments?
Are you trying to convince me that during that era (the mid 80s until 97), that people were "movie collectors" by way of VHS? Sorry, I don't believe it. I know first hand that video stores recieved a list of the movies that would be released as "priced to sell," and that that list would be for the ENTIRE YEAR. Moreover, it would never be more than 1 sheet of legal paper long. Further, the movies were almost never really "new releases." They were often older, albeit perhaps only a year or so, but they were almost never the last "big hit," in the theatres.

The exception to this, of course, was Disney. Other than that studio, there weren't really too many big releases on VHS. ESPECIALLY in 1985...
post #139 of 335

Re: Great article on all the post format war doomsaying...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_K
Pft......These "discussions" been going in circles for well over a year now whether it's "HD DVD vs. BD" or now "why BD wont catch on with Joe 6-pack and Jane Wine-in-a-box".

It's pretty dull when you read the same people say the same thing over the same arguments over and over and over again.

Anyhow. Don't let me interrupt. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Nobody is forcing you to read this thread.





Crawdaddy
post #140 of 335

Re: Great article on all the post format war doomsaying...

Quote:
Nobody is forcing you to read this thread.

True.

But it's a slow day, not a lot else to read today other than the fear-mongering threads. Plus I might have a masochistic streak in me.
post #141 of 335

Re: Great article on all the post format war doomsaying...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
If so then why did he make the following comments?
Are you trying to convince me that during that era (the mid 80s until 97), that people were "movie collectors" by way of VHS? Sorry, I don't believe it. I know first hand that video stores recieved a list of the movies that would be released as "priced to sell," and that that list would be for the ENTIRE YEAR. Moreover, it would never be more than 1 sheet of legal paper long. Further, the movies were almost never really "new releases." They were often older, albeit perhaps only a year or so, but they were almost never the last "big hit," in the theatres.

The exception to this, of course, was Disney. Other than that studio, there weren't really too many big releases on VHS. ESPECIALLY in 1985...

All I can think of is that perhaps the situation with VHS sales (and collecting of VHS) was different in Canada than the US (how soon we forget the disparity in exchange rates back then, making stuff more expensive in Canada than in the US 20 years ago). But I'm sure Josh will swing by and let us know. I'm also befuddled by his ultimate point, but could see how one might arrive by it if viewed from a different point of view (living outside the US 10-20 years ago).
post #142 of 335

Re: Great article on all the post format war doomsaying...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Sun
All I can think of is that perhaps the situation with VHS sales (and collecting of VHS) was different in Canada than the US (how soon we forget the disparity in exchange rates back then, making stuff more expensive in Canada than in the US 20 years ago). But I'm sure Josh will swing by and let us know. I'm also befuddled by his ultimate point, but could see how one might arrive by it if viewed from a different point of view (living outside the US 10-20 years ago).

That could actually be it - that there was a marked difference between the US and Canada during that era.

However that being said, I still don't honestly think that Americans were buying movies on VHS at anywhere near the same rate as they are on DVD. In 1988, were people standing in line at walmart with a bag of socks, some underwear, and a new VHS copy of Rain Man? Could you walk into virtually ANYONE's home, no matter their income or demographic, and see stacks upon stacks of (non-Disney) movies? If so, then there indeed was a huge difference between the US and Canada.
post #143 of 335

Re: Great article on all the post format war doomsaying...

I'll drop the issue of VHS-rentals, as I am on the verging of becoming "that guy," in this thread

At the risk of veering off-topic, I would like to ask if anyone thinks there will be a new era of "extras" ushered in with Blu-ray, once the format gains more popularity, and especially now that it has slain the HDDVD monster.

By that I mean, do you think releases will start becoming "special editions," again, in every sense of the word? I know there are a lot of members here that really don't care about/watch the extras, but I personally love them. Back in the early days of DVD, I can remember how releases were so bare-boned, that the little insert in the case, with the scene listings on it, counted as a "feature."

Perhaps I am wrong here, but I remember "Contact," being one of the first truly special special editions, with three commentary tracks and tons of actual extras. Flash-forward to today, and it seems that special editions are a dime-a-dozen, and very few of them are special. Add that to the fact that most of the BD releases, despite having ample room for data, are basically either carbon-copies of the SD releases, or actually have fewer extras.

I'm just wondering when we'll start seeing LOTR-style special editions, with tons of in-depth extras.

cheers!

Josh
post #144 of 335

Re: Great article on all the post format war doomsaying...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jari K

Like I said, for me it was a better option to stop the war quickly and then give that "fair chance" to one HD-format. Many people don´t agree with me and I can understand that, but dragging this war for e.g. 2 more years would´ve been disaster for the "high definition" (in optical media, at least). Now, at least it has that chance. It´s up to the studios/manufacturers. People need new software and new hardware - in decent prices. We need films!
I´ve faith (for Blu-ray) that things starts to roll in the Xmas/holiday season. We get some cheaper players, more film announcement and some special sales (BOGOs, I hope). "Round 2" begins..
Jari,
Please, explain your speculation that having this format war drag on for several years would have been a disaster for HD optical media in light of what transpired this past year in terms of what happened to hardware prices and the sales on software products that greatly benefited consumers of BOTH formats. And, please, describe this "disaster" only from a consumer's perspective. I don't think you need to worry about the financial health of the major CE manufacturers involved.
Oh.....and take your time because as you indicated, Blu-ray ain't gonna roll til X-mas - 9 months from now!!!
Not to pick on Jari.....of course, anyone is free to respond.
post #145 of 335

Re: Great article on all the post format war doomsaying...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Dial
However that being said, I still don't honestly think that Americans were buying movies on VHS at anywhere near the same rate as they are on DVD. In 1988, were people standing in line at walmart with a bag of socks, some underwear, and a new VHS copy of Rain Man? Could you walk into virtually ANYONE's home, no matter their income or demographic, and see stacks upon stacks of (non-Disney) movies? If so, then there indeed was a huge difference between the US and Canada.
No question that your "dead on" with your post. For every consumer that was buying pre-recorded tapes there were a lot more people like me that were buying blank Beta/VHS tapes and recording movies from OTA/Cable and other sources and amassing their collections in this economical fashion. I may have had the ugliest looking collection but for me it's not about pride as it is about practicality.
On DVD.....even my sister who's not into movies (likes to read) has a modest collection of about 40 DVD titles.
post #146 of 335

Re: Great article on all the post format war doomsaying...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigluigi
of course, anyone is free to respond
But why should anyone? The format war is over. Done. Finished. Asking people to keep fighting in speculative terms is just silly.

And it's especially inappropriate coming from someone who's repeatedly declared himself satisfied with HD broadcasts and upconverted S-DVD. It's beginning to look like trolling.

M.
post #147 of 335

Re: Great article on all the post format war doomsaying...

You call 40 DVDs modest! I have 1000, and i know thats a "smaller" collection compared to some here. I never collected VHS, i was an LD guy. In over 15 years i only had 150-180 range. I would have called that a modest LD collection. Once again i knew of guys that had thousands! And thats a lot, considering the price of LDs. Most people i knew, back in the day, they taped off HBO like you did Louis. I really didnt know many people who collected movies in the 80s, and really, not that many more in the 90s. But someone must have, cause Suncoast always had a million people in it. We didnt get a Best Buy, or Circuit City until the late eighties, or early nineties. That made it a bit easier to buy that sort of stuff, in my area.
post #148 of 335

Re: Great article on all the post format war doomsaying...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Reuben
But why should anyone? The format war is over. Done. Finished. Asking people to keep fighting in speculative terms is just silly.

And it's especially inappropriate coming from someone who's repeatedly declared himself satisfied with HD broadcasts and upconverted S-DVD. It's beginning to look like trolling.

M.
Michael, I'm merely responding to another poster's "speculation" that a "disaster" was imminent had the format war continued. Jari, actually, seemed certain of this so I was curious.

True...this format war is over but its reasons and affects remain a favorite topic of discussion among posters on the internet.

I do admit I'm "satisfied with HD broadcasts and upconverted S-DVD" as an HT enthusiast....I embrace ALL forms of media (I even watch you-tube videos on my 9' HT screen) and yes...Blu-ray titles as well. I do "cheerlead" more for HD broadcast but that's simply because I watch a lot more HD broadcast than Blu-ray movies.
post #149 of 335

Re: Great article on all the post format war doomsaying...

The collector's market must have been way different here in the UK because I had around 500-600 pre-recorded VHS tapes including every episode of Star Trek, TNG, DS9 and Voyager (boy do I regret that as I upgrade them to DVD!) I bought at least 200 movies starting with The Empire Strikes Back which I bought for a staggering £48 (around $95) back in 1985.

Then again I do seem to remember that while we were getting, for example, two episodes of Trek per tape for £9.99 the US market was getting one episode per tape for about double that.

I then collected something in the region of 700-1000 NSTC laserdiscs and have around 2000-3000 DVDs.

So collecting is nothing new around these parts. I'm in no rush to start all over again!
post #150 of 335

Re: Great article on all the post format war doomsaying...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickER
You call 40 DVDs modest! I have 1000, and i know thats a "smaller" collection compared to some here. I never collected VHS, i was an LD guy. In over 15 years i only had 150-180 range. I would have called that a modest LD collection. Once again i knew of guys that had thousands! And thats a lot, considering the price of LDs. Most people i knew, back in the day, they taped off HBO like you did Louis. I really didnt know many people who collected movies in the 80s, and really, not that many more in the 90s. But someone must have, cause Suncoast always had a million people in it. We didnt get a Best Buy, or Circuit City until the late eighties, or early nineties. That made it a bit easier to buy that sort of stuff, in my area.
Laserdisc was always way to expensive for me until 2 events occurred almost simultaneously: The local video store began stocking LDs for rent and hardware finally broke the less than $500 barrier.
Even so, over the next 5 years I bought only 6 titles. Than when the LD market collapsed, I did buy 20 more titles...LOL I paid more for shipping than I did for the titles. Eventually I used the beautiful art work from the LD covers to form a collage that adorns the entryway to my HT.
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