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Godfather 4k

post #1 of 157
2/27/08 at 8:24am
Thread Starter 
AMERICAN CINEMATOGRAPHER...

"Post Focus will present a comprehensive look at the recent 4K restorations of all three Godfather films by renowned film preservationist Robert Harris and a team of experts, who received valuable input from Allen Daviau, ASC and the trilogy’s director of photography, Gordon Willis, ASC.
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post #2 of 157
2/27/08 at 8:39am

Re: Godfather 4k

Glad to know that they did all three films and not just the first one (or even the first two). Hopefully Paramount sees fit to release them on BD when they get re-released, unlike Chinatown, which didn't get an HD-DVD upon its re-release last Fall.
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post #3 of 157
2/27/08 at 8:41am

Re: Godfather 4k

Glad to see Robert Harris is on board. Though I'd think that Godfather III, being shot on low-fade stock and less than 20 years old, wouldn't have problems yet.

I can't wait for this Blu-Ray.
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post #4 of 157
2/27/08 at 8:47am

Re: Godfather 4k

The 2001 DVD of Godfather III had a serious issue that appeared to be a problem with the source material. From the IGN DVD: Trailers, Wallpaper, Pictures, and Reviews:

"The video quality on this one is just about the same as The Godfather, Part 2 with one noticeable exception: Chapter 17. When Michael and Kay are in Sicily, there is a blindingly obvious problem with the print's light levels fading in and out. I didn't go to DVD review school so I don't know the proper terminology but the entire image goes back and forth several times from optimum color to a marked fuzziness for about four minutes. It is incredibly distracting, even to the untrained eye. Not sure how this managed to sneak by the producers of this collection but it's a definite ugly spot."
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post #5 of 157
2/27/08 at 11:13am

Re: Godfather 4k

It would be fun to ask RAH about what was involved in the restoration, condition of elements, etc.
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post #6 of 157
2/27/08 at 11:15am

Re: Godfather 4k

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen_J_H
It would be fun to ask RAH about what was involved in the restoration, condition of elements, etc.
Yep. Whenever he's able to talk about it, I'm sure many want to read A Few Words About it.
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post #7 of 157
2/27/08 at 11:54am
Thread Starter 

Re: Godfather 4k

I sure hope they are restoring the cuts scenes and do some kind of epic
I love these.
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post #8 of 157
2/27/08 at 12:23pm

Re: Godfather 4k

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Neski
I sure hope they are restoring the cuts scenes and do some kind of epic
I love these.

Those additional "TV-scenes" (I assume you mean those?) doesn´t belong to the original films, but I hope that they´re still included in some way. Perhaps limited "Deluxe Edition" etc with "The Godfather Saga" or something..

Now these are the films that would really sell Blu-ray format, bring it on!
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post #9 of 157
2/27/08 at 1:22pm

Re: Godfather 4k

Is this the same Robert Harris who, when The Godfather Trilogy was released on DVD, said it wasn't in need of any restoration and looked precisely as it should? THAT Robert Harris???
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post #10 of 157
2/27/08 at 1:59pm

Re: Godfather 4k

Robert never said the films didn't need to be restored, he said the standard-definition DVD versions were accurate in reflecting the intended look of the films. That's a huge difference. In fact, he's been pretty vocal for some years now that THE GODFATHER was in dire need of a full film restoration.

Vincent

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Williams
Is this the same Robert Harris who, when The Godfather Trilogy was released on DVD, said it wasn't in need of any restoration and looked precisely as it should? THAT Robert Harris???
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post #11 of 157
2/27/08 at 2:09pm

Re: Godfather 4k

That is incorrect. People complained about the DVDs, saying Paramount should have done a restoration, and Mr. Harris said they were not in need of a restoration and looked precisely as they should.

If a film is in dire need of restoration, then it couldn't possibly accurate represent the intended look of the film.
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post #12 of 157
2/27/08 at 4:45pm

Re: Godfather 4k

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Williams
That is incorrect. People complained about the DVDs, saying Paramount should have done a restoration, and Mr. Harris said they were not in need of a restoration and looked precisely as they should.

If a film is in dire need of restoration, then it couldn't possibly accurate represent the intended look of the film.

Just because the video representation of the film looks reasonably accurate to what was shown in theaters, doesn't mean that the film elements are in danger of becoming unusable, and in need of restoration.

Doug
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post #13 of 157
2/27/08 at 7:56pm

Re: Godfather 4k

Exactly. RAH has been one of the most vocal proponents of a photochemical restoration of It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World, even though the current DVD to the vast majority of viewers is "acceptable".
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post #14 of 157
2/28/08 at 1:51am

Re: Godfather 4k

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
..that the film elements are in danger of becoming unusable..

I believe this was the nr.1 reason why these are now being restored. If they don´t do it soon, they´ll become indeed unusable. IMO the earlier DVD-releases look decent, but certainly not perfect.

Earlier thread:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...ml#post3215917

..and:
• Hollywood Elsewhere •

"Coppola said that Paramount was initially not interested in funding the restoration (deemed necessary due to the original negative having been "purposefuly damaged by idiots...misued, cut up") but all that changed when Spielberg stepped into the breach and said, "This is going to happen.""

""Coppola also mentioned that the negative was basically going to dissolve, or very close to complete loss and it would have cost millions of dollars to restore. Paramount was not going to foot the bill for it, he said, but that after Paramount became Dreamamount Spielberg himself made sure they knew they had to restore The Godfather, and the restoration went forward."

This is the huge opportunity for Blu-ray (and SD DVD also), so let´s hope that they´ll deliver the goods. Pristine 1080p picture, lossless audio (with original Mono), new documentaries/interviews, "The Godfather Saga", etc etc. (I can dream, can I?)
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post #15 of 157
2/28/08 at 6:23am

Re: Godfather 4k

Of all the films, I would suspect that GII is in the best shape. This is because GII was one of the last films to be printed in Technicolor IB in North America before the recent renaissance of dye transfer printing. Therefore, there would be separations made and, depending on the condition of those seps, a "restoration" should be failry straightforward.
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post #16 of 157
2/28/08 at 6:27am

Re: Godfather 4k

I do not know why I have not purchased The Godfather before as it is an awsume set of movies. But as soon as they come out on Blu-ray I am so all over the Godfather trilogy! I also hope that they include a lossless track along with a original mono track as well.

Quote:
Spielberg stepped into the breach and said, "This is going to happen.""



And with Spielberg involved I believe that we might see a DTS-HD MA track on the Godfather Trilogy.
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post #17 of 157
2/28/08 at 10:57am

Re: Godfather 4k

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen_J_H
Of all the films, I would suspect that GII is in the best shape. This is because GII was one of the last films to be printed in Technicolor IB in North America before the recent renaissance of dye transfer printing. Therefore, there would be separations made and, depending on the condition of those seps, a "restoration" should be failry straightforward.

Yes there are probably some good prints floating around, but I doubt that the ON was in that great a shape, considering the condition of the negative for Jaws and Star Wars. I believe they were shot on the same stock.

And having a Technicolor print made doesn't mean that separations were made. Separations are not needed to make a Technicolor dye transfer print.

Doug
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post #18 of 157
2/28/08 at 12:56pm

Re: Godfather 4k

How so, Doug? I always thought that seps would have to be made to make printing matrices.
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post #19 of 157
2/28/08 at 2:08pm

Re: Godfather 4k

No. Matrices could be made off the original negative.
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post #20 of 157
2/28/08 at 6:12pm

Re: Godfather 4k

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen_J_H
How so, Doug? I always thought that seps would have to be made to make printing matrices.

I believe, if I understand the couple of books I've read about Technicolor, that the red, blue and green elements are separated by use of colored filters used on the internegative in the printing/dye process. B&W separations could be made for protection, but they are superfluous to the actual making of dye transfer prints from an Eastman color negative.


Doug
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post #21 of 157
2/29/08 at 8:36am

Re: Godfather 4k

My recollection is the same as Vincent's; Mr. Harris was very unhappy about the state of the *film elements* but wasn't too displeased with the video representations of The Godfather. Let me see....

Yes, I remembered correctly. From his 2000 interview with The Onion:

Robert Harris | The A.V. Club

"The Godfather is a mess. The Godfather is as bad as Rear Window."

Thankfully much has changed in the intervening eight years.
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post #22 of 157
2/29/08 at 8:43am

Re: Godfather 4k

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Williams
That is incorrect. People complained about the DVDs, saying Paramount should have done a restoration, and Mr. Harris said they were not in need of a restoration and looked precisely as they should.

If a film is in dire need of restoration, then it couldn't possibly accurate represent the intended look of the film.

See Mark Zimmer's post and the link to the Onion interview from over 7 years ago with Robert Harris.

Also, a bad film element most certainly can be made to look good in telecine. The DVD of NORTH BY NORTHWEST is frequently praised, and yet it's known that the original film elements are in really bad shape. Robert Harris even said this way back in the early 1990s in an old interview for the Perfect Vision magazine. I'll dig out the actual issue one of these days and post the exact quotes if you still feel the need to continue bashing Robert on this issue.

Vincent
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post #23 of 157
2/29/08 at 9:03am

Re: Godfather 4k

He mentions NxNW in the Onion interview too:

Quote:
It (The Godfather 'restoration' release) was horrible. They called it a restoration. They spent half a milliion dollars. This is one of the things that has come back to haunt us, because once a (restoration) is done, it should be done and you assume that it is done. But The Godfather wasn't restored. North By Northwest has not been restored. Dr. Zhivago has been restored, but more damage was done than help. You have to know what you're doing, and it can't be done by bean counters.

Read the interview. It's one of the very best and most illuminating things I've ever read on film preservation.
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post #24 of 157
2/29/08 at 9:16am

Re: Godfather 4k

I think it would be great to have a follow up interview with Mr Harris or maybe even an HTF chat on how things stand 8 years on, particularly as this is his first big-release restoration since Rear Window over 10 years ago, an ideal time for cross promotion!

M
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post #25 of 157
2/29/08 at 9:24am

Re: Godfather 4k

I don't know what Mr. Harris said in "The Onion," but I do know what he said on HTF.
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post #26 of 157
2/29/08 at 9:43am

Re: Godfather 4k

Quote:
I don't know what Mr. Harris said in "The Onion," but I do know what he said on HTF.

Well go and search for it. (There are more than a few relevant posts scattered across multiple years.) Your memory may be playing tricks on you.

-Reagan
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post #27 of 157
2/29/08 at 1:01pm

Re: Godfather 4k

Love that Onion article, especially the comments about when he attends a movie and is up in the booth half the time. I can totally relate.
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post #28 of 157
2/29/08 at 1:42pm

Re: Godfather 4k

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Williams
I don't know what Mr. Harris said in "The Onion," but I do know what he said on HTF.

Well, the Onion article is linked in this very thread so you can easily go read it. Beyond that, I really don't know what you're trying to accomplish by continuing to bash Robert Harris on this issue.

Vincent
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post #29 of 157
2/29/08 at 2:04pm

Re: Godfather 4k

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Williams
I don't know what Mr. Harris said in "The Onion," but I do know what he said on HTF.

Perhaps you could give us a link to the specific quote you are talking about here on HTF?

Doug
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post #30 of 157
2/29/08 at 3:19pm

Re: Godfather 4k

Here is a brief post from 2003 by RAH on the subject:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...ml#post1718393

Here's another interview:

Jeff McNeal interviews Robert A. Harris
Quote:
RAH: ... Paramount-probably the only thing that I can say is that they screwed up the "restoration" of The Godfather, but there's no one there doing anything so (that) may actually be better for the library.

TBP: How, pray tell, did Paramount "screw up" the restoration of The Godfather?

RAH: They spent a great deal of money on the project doing it through post-production (personnel), who don't know how to handle antique film, and (they) made a mess of it. They have no 35mm prints that can represent the film at this time. This is a subject that is just as well not gone into as things there may change. We'll see.
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