The more intelligent the show, the worse it does on DVD?

Re: The more intelligent the show, the worse it does on DVD?

I'm not sure about this. I suppose it depends on the definitions you use. Arrested Development, which I'd argue is an extremely intelligent show, has done well on DVD; while a lot of Warner's production-line sitcoms and procedurals from recent years haven't done as well, as far as I know.

Your theory may prove true for older shows, with which I'm less familiar - but I imagine M*A*S*H was a pretty good seller? And Mensa called that the smartest show of all-time recently.

Re: The more intelligent the show, the worse it does on DVD?

I hold to the simple belief that if an audience is used to buying items related to the show, the better it does on DVD. It is an audience used to picking up novelizations, coffeetable books, magazines, dolls that are eager to finally own the actual episodes if transfered properly. folks who are only used to watching the show on TV for free aren't eager to spring up the big bucks to see it again. They are a harder sell.

Re: The more intelligent the show, the worse it does on DVD?

"Frasier" is a very intelligent show which I assume has done very well on DVD.

Re: The more intelligent the show, the worse it does on DVD?

I'm glad you said this, Hank, because the "Mensa list" just proves that the guy who made it is probably in his forties.

I used to belong to Mensa and it's amazing how stupid some of these supposedly smart people can be. It's off topic, or I'd tell you a thing or two.

Re: The more intelligent the show, the worse it does on DVD?

Mission: Impossible must be doing well. Season 4 will be out soon. Perry Mason seems to be doing OK too, but i will take a season 3 now please! Battlestar Galactica is not a stupid show, i am talking the new one, and it seems to do very well in the ratings, and DVD!

Re: The more intelligent the show, the worse it does on DVD?

Here's the problem, at least with newer shows. The intelligent shows suck in the ratings (see Studio 60 and Firefly as examples), because the masses just can't seem to pick up on it. However, the people who do follow those shows faithfully pick it up on DVD. And sometimes (Firefly), it can lead to something else.

For older shows, it might be a generational thing. I'm in my 20s, and the only shows I have an interest in getting on DVD are those that I've watched in my lifetime. So, I'm not as interested in the older programs. On the other hand, my parents might be interested in those programs, but they don't really buy that many DVDs, and the only TV DVDs my dad has are Star Trek related.

So, really there are a lot of factors.

Re: The more intelligent the show, the worse it does on DVD?

This may be true....Married with children season sets are coming out rapid fire style,(and I'm glad, because I buy them). but my intellectual St. Elsewhere, and Hill Street Blues side wants to cry.

Re: The more intelligent the show, the worse it does on DVD?

It's not the shows being successful or not but I do know that there is a good chance that the DVD sets were poor sellers. Don't blame the studio releasing the sets, blame the consumers who don't purchase them ...

Re: The more intelligent the show, the worse it does on DVD?

But isn't that what this thread is about? People not buying the shows?

The studios ARE partly to blame for this, actually. I've seen very little advertising for lots of shows that have come out, and many brick and mortar stores simply don't carry them. Therefore, the average viewer might not even know these series were available to purchase. Most people don't spend hours at their computers researching these things like we do. ;>

Re: The more intelligent the show, the worse it does on DVD?

My thinking is that, for older shows, how well a show appealed to kids/teens is usually a good guage for its sales. Older shows that appealed to more adult and sophisticated tastes have a more limited fan base today, with some exceptions. Gilligan's Island or The Munsters outselling The Bob Newhart or Mary Tyler Moore Shows isn't a surprise when you think about who was watching first runs and reruns. I mentioned this on a different thread, and a couple of posters took my comments the wrong way. I'm not upset that Paramount, for example, releases crap like Mod Squad or Love, American Style. It just saddens me that they won't also release Ben Casey or The Phil Silvers Show because they (probably correctly) feel that these titles won't sell well. The Mensa list is a great example of how ludicrous our cultural obsession with listing/ranking everything is. Hank's list is FAR superior to Mensa's, and I'm sure he didn't deliberate over it for hours before posting.

Re: The more intelligent the show, the worse it does on DVD?

Hank's listing of "Playhouse 90" and "The Defenders" are good examples of intelligent programming of the past which won't make anyone's list if he or she is under 50, whether they're in Mensa or not, because in all likelihood they not only never saw any episodes but never even heard of the shows.

Lists are fundamentally worthless even at their best, but the nerve of someone to make a list when he isn't aware of everything that might qualify for the list -- yet people do that all the time.

Re: The more intelligent the show, the worse it does on DVD?

Well, if there's a bias in favor of less-intelligent shows, maybe that means "Camp Runamuck" has a shot. The series is dumb as dirt. But, if it were released, I'd buy it. Every now and then I have to cater to my inner moron.

Re: The more intelligent the show, the worse it does on DVD?

what about Seinfeld and Frasier? two of the most intelligent sitcoms of the 90's, both sets are completed

Re: The more intelligent the show, the worse it does on DVD?

I'd also say Star Trek was pretty intelligent

Re: The more intelligent the show, the worse it does on DVD?

Yeah, there are plenty of "smart" shows that've done well on DVD and plenty of "dumb" ones that haven't. I think the OP's assumption is incorrect - there's no "smart/dumb" rhyme or reason at work here...

Re: The more intelligent the show, the worse it does on DVD?

Ha! You people are killing me with this...I have to show this to my best friend, whom I would definitely say is Mensa-smart, but has way more common sense than what it sounds like you are describing.

Re: The more intelligent the show, the worse it does on DVD?

This is the best post on the topic so far. The "smart"/"dumb" dichotomy is bogus -- most of us have a tendency to believe the shows we love are somehow superior, and if they don't sell well on DVD it's tempting to blame the shows we don't like that do sell. Big marketing budgets, strong nostalgia value, and release timing, among other factors, have as much to do with a show's DVD success as intelligence or lack thereof.

What's "smart," anyway? Lots of people consider Dallas twaddle, but it's actually elegantly written and emotionally complex (in the early seasons, anyhow). And The West Wing is as sharp as they come, but it has plenty of detractors (even some Democrats). I just don't buy this argument.

Re: The more intelligent the show, the worse it does on DVD?

I think there is very little correlation between "intelligence" of a show and how well it sells.


I don't agree with the term "LCD" here, but the basis of this is correct. Obviously the shows that appeal to the most people do extremely well. But that's true of "smart" or "stupid" shows.

Re: The more intelligent the show, the worse it does on DVD?

I've always wondered what people mean when they talk about the supposed intelligence of a show. The quality of the writing? The intelligence of the characters? The term is thrown about constantly but is ill-defined.

Re: The more intelligent the show, the worse it does on DVD?

Those sound like fighting words. "Love and the Phonies" is an amazingly well written and performed sketch. Sure the quality of Love American Style varies, but it's amazing how they wrote these shows without being able to come right out and talk about the real subject. Ever see the one where the guy puts his mouth around the doorknob? And don't mess with the Mod Squad. I'm watching the second half of the first season and I'm hooked.

I'm hoping they wise up after finishing up Gomer and put out Bilko - seeing how they've put out all of Hogan's Heroes and F Troop plus McHale's Navy is wrapping up. there's a need for military humor.

Re: The more intelligent the show, the worse it does on DVD?

I'm seriously bummed I only had a chance to buy two seasons of Hill Street Blues and one season of St. Elsewhere. I was ready to go the distance. Apparently not a lot of others were.

Hopefully, I'll be able to download shows like these one day.

Re: The more intelligent the show, the worse it does on DVD?

whisperintherain, I'm with you on Knots Landing. As much as I continued to enjoy Dallas, and as true as it remained to the more prickly aspects of its premise, it defaulted to formula about halfway through its run -- a victim of its own success, maybe. Knots just got better over time.

Too bad it flopped on DVD. I blame Warner's crummy, misguided marketing of the first season set and its cynical expectation of Dallas-like sales rather than any off-putting "smartness." I'm still hopeful that the rest of the seasons will be made available at some point, though; there's money to be made from the show, so I doubt that it'll languish forever.

Knots (and Dallas, and a bunch of other shows) prove the silliness of the smart vs. dumb debate: From a distance it seems vapid, but from inside it's sophisticated and well-observed. That's part of what makes TV on DVD so great -- it gives us a chance to reassess series that may have been ignored, missed, or dismissed, and discover what was and remains inventive about them. In that sense, and with an open enough mind, even Sherwood Schwartz deserves props for being smart about slapstick -- whether his shows float your boat or not.

Re: The more intelligent the show, the worse it does on DVD?

Hank, you have still not clarified what you mean, only using the word itself and producers you personally like and dislike as examples. If you say that it is a relative term, then it is therefore meaningless. Even if one were to establish a clear meaning, most shows would be of average intelligence.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Warner dropped the ball on Knots Landing and dropped it HARD. They could have combined seasons 1 and 2, since there were only 31 episodes between them, and as like many shows it did not come anywhere near its stride in its first season.

Some shows, regardless of the arbitrary definition of "intelligence", just plain suck in their first season. Many people despise the first season of The Simpsons, but the show is so popular and well-known that it has made it to season 10 so far. Other shows that have been out of syndication for years that get released on DVD have not been so lucky. A fan who hasn't seen the show in decades buys the first season, sees that it is not up to par with what he remembers, and assumes the rest of the show is that bad. Unfortunately he has done the show an injustice. Perhaps multiple seasons at a time or complete series might work better.

Until we agree on a clear definition of intelligence in this context the debate is built on a foundation of sand. But to me, the primary considerations for what I look for in a show are: Do I care about the characters enough to want to look into their lives? Is it funny (in a comedy)? Are the stories believable within the context set up by the premise? Does the overall execution work well enough to offset any minor caveats that may arise? Does it not tick me off in some way?

Re: The more intelligent the show, the worse it does on DVD?

Count me guilty in that belief. I've always blamed the roadblocks of "Hill Street Blues" and "St. Elsewhere" (at 2 and 1 respectively)on "Friends", "Seinfeld", and "Raymond"-- specifically, it seems that more people like those '90's comedies (which I never liked) than "Hill Street" and "St. Elsewhere" (both of which I thought were well-written and well-acted, at least in the seasons which I saw of them). Of course, as the old saw goes, "different people have different tastes," and as such, the people that enjoy the '90's comedies that I mentioned might not care for the '80's (and '60's and '70's), and because I like the '80's (and '60's and '70's), I don't care for the '90's-- it works both ways.